Rebelle Rally 3x champion, Melissa Clark, shares her life in off-road from Pritchett Canyon to the Glamis Sand Dunes. A Ford-sponsored driver, Melissa brings Tread Lightly! policies to everyone she teaches. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
5:00 – I still consider myself an OR nurse
9:05 – …it got me close to Magic Moab
16:56 – my real gateway drug was definitely Moab
23:28 – we teach good, solid off-road techniques and then the nuances of the Bronco
35:37 – I’m very competitive by nature, so I like games
40:57 – the suffering aspect of the Rebelle is what makes the finishing so sweet
49:42 – your vehicle is your third teammate and there are pros and cons to every person on the team
Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
Rebelle Rally 3x champion, Melissa Clark, shares her life in off-road from Pritchett Canyon to the Glamis Sand Dunes. A Ford-sponsored driver, Melissa brings Tread Lightly! policies to everyone she teaches. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
5:00 – I still consider myself an OR nurse
9:05 – …it got me close to Magic Moab
16:56 – my real gateway drug was definitely Moab
23:28 – we teach good, solid off-road techniques and then the nuances of the Bronco
35:37 – I’m very competitive by nature, so I like games
40:57 – the suffering aspect of the Rebelle is what makes the finishing so sweet
49:42 – your vehicle is your third teammate and there are pros and cons to every person on the team
Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
[00:00:02.340] -
Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the offroad industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future Legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land-use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call Offroad. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active in Offroad. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call Offroad.
[00:00:46.160] -
Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability, four wheels or two. Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis, tread victoriously.
[00:01:13.010]
Have you seen 4-Low magazine yet? 4-low magazine is a high-quality, well-written, four-wheel drive-focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4low is the magazine for you. 4-low cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4lowagazine.com to order your subscription today.
[00:01:39.740] – Big Rich Klein
On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I have a friend that we're going to interview that I've known her for quite a few years now. I don't even remember the first time I've met her, but maybe it was on The Rebelle, maybe it was in Moab. But Melissa Fisher-Clark, now known as Melissa Clark, and we'll talk about that, is an extreme trail wheeler. She's one of those that opened up the trail Rear Steer in Moab. She belongs to friends of Moab Wheeling, and is most recently a three-time straight winner of the Rebell Rally in the X-class in a full stock Bronco Sport. Everybody says those cars are not capable. Melissa would like to argue that point with everyone. Melissa, thank you for coming on and spending some time with me.
[00:02:34.850] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, thanks, Big Rich. It's an honor to be here. Glad to show up and have a conversation with you anytime.
[00:02:42.020] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Let's get started. The easiest question for most people to answer. Where were you born and raised?
[00:02:52.210] - Melissa Clark
I was actually born just north of Indianapolis in Indiana, so I was raised there. I'm a Hoosier. That's what we call ourselves from Indiana. I actually spent quite a bit of time right around that area. I went to school there. I went to Indiana University for a nursing program right after I finished high school. Then I practiced nursing at St. Vincent Hospital in Indianapolis. I spent the first 34 years of my life in Indiana.
[00:03:26.770] - Big Rich Klein
Wow! Okay. With that pedigree of going to school and getting a degree, you were probably a pretty good student?
[00:03:37.990] - Melissa Clark
Well, when I went for my associate degree, I married very young, Rich. I was 19 when I got married, and I was going to school at the same time. I only went for my associate's degree to start with, and I did a fair amount. But when I went back for my bachelor's and masters, I got quite a bit higher GPA because I had a different focus, I think.
[00:04:03.440] - Big Rich Klein
Married at a young age, high school, right out of high school, was it a high school sweetheart?
[00:04:12.070] - Melissa Clark
No, actually, he was quite a bit older than me. A weird story as I went to work for Wendy's, it's a fast-food place, and he was the assistant manager there. He was 25 when I was 17. That's why... That's why I have a different last name now.
[00:04:32.150] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Sorry to pry too deep into that if that's.
[00:04:36.650] - Melissa Clark
A- It's fine, Margaret. It's fine. No hard feelings now. I think I just married too young, so.
[00:04:44.650] - Big Rich Klein
I can understand that. I can understand that. So getting your degree, your nursing degree, that's been your primary occupation for most of your life then?
[00:05:00.630] - Melissa Clark
Until this year, Rich, yeah. I worked in the operating room for several years. I also consider myself an OR nurse when it's a management in the operating room, and then I made a shift to the medical device industry. I started working with surgical products, and as a nurse, I was a dual role on a marketing team with some product development, but also spent a lot of time educating surgeons and nurses on the use of the product. I'd go into the operating room with these products and help show best practices and safety and things like that.
[00:05:38.200] - Big Rich Klein
So sales at the end.
[00:05:40.350] - Melissa Clark
It is. I'm very closely with sales, but I didn't directly sell. So it was supporting sales all the time. So basically that's true. But I had a big at the end here when I finished this year, I had a pretty big territory and I was traveling in it last year. I think I was 200 days on the road just with my job. I was covering about 13 states, and it was starting to get not fun anymore.
[00:06:12.710] - Big Rich Klein
Right, I can imagine. Actually, Brian and I talked about that a little bit at the Rebelle before the start this year at Tech. He was saying that you had basically retired and walked away from the medical industry.
[00:06:33.370] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, I left after about the first quarter, so about the beginning of April of this year. I stayed in to get my last bonus, and then I left because I had a couple of really great opportunities that came up with winning the Rebelle and creating this relationship with Ford that gave me the opportunity to be able to step-away.
[00:06:59.120] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. So let's talk about how that all transpired to be able to step away.
[00:07:06.610] - Melissa Clark
Yeah. I'll tell you what, you do go through a little bit of a mourning process and changing what your role looks like, even if you're not so happy in your current role, once you leave it, you have to backfill it with something. And Brian understood that he had retired from working at Micron and having a very busy corporate role and so finding those things to backfill. So after winning the Rebelle, an X-cross-class, maybe the first year, I guess it was after the first year, Ford has what's called Bronco Off-Rodeos, and I think you maybe have done some things with the Bronco Off-Rodeos before. There's a few of them. There's four of them. There's one in Moab, so right in my backyard. And so we got invited as VIPs to come ride along as the sport program opened up doing Bronco sports in Moab. And so we rode along. Brian and I rode along and it's like, wow, this is fun. Provided a little bit of our insights to the sport and why we liked it. And I think it was a trap, but it turned out really nice. They ended up inviting us back to ride in the big Broncos because I had mentioned I'd not even been in a regular Bronco before, so I had to come back and do the off-rodeo in the Broncos.
[00:08:28.060] - Melissa Clark
And one thing led to another and we became guides there. Brian and I both guide a few days a month at the Bronco Off Roadeo, teaching both the sport program as well as the Bronco program. It's been amazing. It's a really cool, really fun job. I've met a lot of great customers, a lot of people, so have loved having that opportunity.
[00:08:52.260] - Big Rich Klein
Let's dive into that a little bit deeper in a minute, but let's jump over to wheeling and how you got involved with the sport of Offroad?
[00:09:05.500] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, it quickly became a passion for me. We got to go back almost 20 years ago. I made a move to Arizona and started getting accustomed to a little bit of offroading. I had a Jeep at that time, but it wasn't really until I got into Utah. My medical device company that I went to work for was based in a suburb of Salt Lake City, so it got me close to the Magic Moab. And so we started going down there on weekends, and we found not only the Red Rock four-wheelers down there with participating in Easter Jeep Safari. That's probably was my first real exposure to offroading was attending Easter Jeep Safari. But then we also met up with the Moab Friends for Wheeling group that did a lot more weekly type trails. So we could coordinate our schedules to go down and wheel on the weekends. So I started doing that. And just like anything where I think they say Jeep stands for just empty every pocket, I started building my Jeep, started looking. We actually ended up buying a condo in Moab. So we had a home base to go down there to build this lifestyle of offroading, kept breaking the Jeep, building it bigger finally abandoning that Jeep and going more for the the juggy style with the Jeep creation Frankenstein monsters on what I thought 37s, but ended up at one point up to 42s.
[00:10:42.800] - Melissa Clark
I think I've settled now that 40 is a good magic number, but love to Pritchet Canyon. That's my passion number one trail anywhere is Pritchet Canyon. I love to lead it, show other people love the challenge of it. But you did mention Rear Steer. That's another aspect of my role in Moab Friends for Wheeling. I was the President for a couple of years, and we got really involved at Moab Friends for Wheeling. We got really involved with trail preservation. We did a lot of work with the Bureau of Land Management there. There was a lot of disappointing stuff going on right now. But in those days, we primarily did the... We marked the trails down in Moab. My big project down there to date, which is part of the opening of Rear Steer 2, is I designed and made the majority of the you are here signs. So if you've done some of the trails down there, especially all the ones on, if you've done Rear Steer and you see some of my funny signs that I've put down there, I designed those as a way for people to minimize getting lost out there. It happens a lot out on Poison Spider Mesa.
[00:11:59.520] - Melissa Clark
People get going, they lose track of where they are, and pretty soon it gets dark and they spend the night out there not meaning to. We put, I think there's about 40 signs out on Poison, Spider Mesa that help orient you to where you are so that you can find the easiest route off the trail. So did that. And then, like I said, just kept building and enjoying offroading, and that just became a passion for me to pour all of my extra income into, and sometimes not even my extra income.
[00:12:34.800] - Big Rich Klein
I can understand that, and all of our listeners can, too.
[00:12:40.830] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, and that's actually where I met you for the first time, Rich. I met you. Jeff Stevens decided to participate in a race there that was happening in area BFE, and we went over to support him. And I think he was in a stock class or something, and hes at third place. I remember that's the first time I believe that's the first time that I met you was at that race.
[00:13:07.480] - Big Rich Klein
That makes complete sense. We were an area BFE.
[00:13:11.110] - Melissa Clark
Yep.
[00:13:11.610] - Big Rich Klein
Those years of when you bought the Jeep, you were in Arizona? Or did you have the.
[00:13:23.190] - Melissa Clark
Jeep before that? Yeah, I got the Jeep just as we were leaving Indiana. I probably had it for a year or two, but I hadn't done anything to it. It was just a stock Jeep.
[00:13:32.720] - Big Rich Klein
On 29s and bonestock?
[00:13:36.310] - Melissa Clark
Yes, it was a sport. It wasn't even a Rubicon. So it was just a very basic. The Rubicons had just come out and it was like I couldn't imagine putting that much money in one until later. It sneaks up on you. When you just do it a thousand or two thousand dollars at a time, pretty soon it's like, wow, I just could have easily started with Rubicon. But I was a real fan of the manual transmission. I like to call it a woman because it's not a man driving that vehicle. But I love that transmission. It's only until recently with my latest buggy that I've gone away from that. I did all of my rock crawling. I loved finding those granny gears and enjoyed the technical aspects of controlling a vehicle off road.
[00:14:34.210] - Big Rich Klein
I couldn't wait to get out from a manual and get into and start using an auto. I couldn't wait.
[00:14:42.850] - Melissa Clark
I did an engine swap on my juggy Jeep. It started as a TJ, and then there was the frame and something and maybe three parts were left that was part of the original one. But we did an engine swap. Iactually the inline six, I blew that out on the trail. I actually threw cams shaft on the trail on Upper El Dorado trail. I was trying to bounce it over a rock and it blew out. So I had to do an engine swap. And so we ended up putting an LQ, I think it's LQ-9 in there, the LF series, put that in there. And it was really hard to find the right type of transmission to be able to continue to maintain that manual. Everybody's like, Just go to automatic. And I'm like, I just love having the stick shift. And part of it is because I got really dependent on the clutch being able to, when I'm about to roll over, being able to clutch out and come back down the hill. And I was afraid that I was getting too old to learn a technique to get myself out of that. And once I had the automatic in my newer buggy, I still found my foot desperately looking for clutches at key times and nothing being there.
[00:16:05.030] - Melissa Clark
Muscle memory. Yeah, they did cut some gates out. We cut some gates out so I can slap it into neutral. That's where I am at this point. It did take quite a bit of relearning my trail technique to work. Most people say it's the other way around, but I had to really relearn how to drive with an automatic transmission.
[00:16:26.470] - Big Rich Klein
I can understand that. I can understand, especially if you were using the stick for so long.
[00:16:31.870] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, people would be surprised. They come and look at it like, Wow, you just clogged that with the stick. I'm like, Yeah, that's the only way I know how to do it.
[00:16:42.400] - Big Rich Klein
So when you went to Arizona, and you got the bug bit to begin with, what were the trails that you found yourself on with that stalk rig to begin with?
[00:16:56.940] - Melissa Clark
We did a lot of... I mean, we were in Tucson, so there was a lot of trails down actually near the border, pretty easy type trails. I never got into anything. We were wheeling by ourselves at that point, so we were pretty cautious. We were on a few forest trails, some little trails that would cross some washes very near the Mexican border. We did that a couple of times. I think my real gateway drug was definitely Moab. And the very first trail I ever really remember doing that I was super proud of myself was fins and things. And for a long time, that was my favorite, what I've considered a hardcore rock crawling trail, is that I could go and do fins and things.
[00:17:44.810] - Big Rich Klein
And now that's like a warm up trail.
[00:17:47.270] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, I actually used to... And just until I've gotten really busy with other things up until a couple of years ago, I used to take people on things during Easter Jeep, Safari, as a women'sa women's trail or a family trail to get people who traditionally are in that passenger seat and get them used to feeling what they can do on Slikrock with stock rigs. And I always surprised people that they could get through pretty easily on a trail that if you've never been on or seen the Slikrock in Moab, it seems very daunting, but it's definitely within everybody's capability. So I like education. It's my master's degree focused in nursing and also education. So I love seeing people grasp onto a skill, which I also think is why I miss guiding over at the off-rodeo as well as... So yeah, that's just fence and things now is just one of those trails. It's scenic and nice, but no challenge.
[00:18:52.780] - Big Rich Klein
At what point or how did you meet Brian?
[00:19:00.890] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, so I went through a divorce. It's been several... Gosh, it's amazing how time flies. It's been several years ago now. I was continuing to have some struggles in the marriage, and so finally decided that it needed to call it quits. Couldn't put a Band-Aid on that anymore. Got out of that, went through the divorce, and just decided that, Hey, I'm going to see if there's anybody out there. Believe it or not online, which I don't really recommend for anybody that it works, but for every little bit of good there is on online dating. There's a bunch of horror stories. But I went out there and I decided that I was going to write an online profile that was very boundary creating. I basically said, if you want to spend some time with me, you are going to hardcore off road with me. This is part of who I am. That is my life. And nobody touched it with a 10-foot pole. And then finally, Bryan reached out and said, Wow, that sounds super awesome. I think I'd like to do that. So he came over and rode with the club on a trail, and that was the start of that.
[00:20:22.350] - Melissa Clark
And then I got to learn his lifestyle. I've not done anything. He's really was into the razor and the OHV, that type of side-by-side community, something I'd never done and was in a camp. And this is what I think is that a lot of motorized users tend to find themselves. They put themselves into these little silos to say, I'm superior because I drive a Jeep, or I'm superior, I don't think that Razors and side by sides can contribute in any way to motorized use. I learned a lot. It's really dependent on that person. It's not the type of vehicle they drive, it's their core values. And there's jerks everywhere that tear up the trails. And it was actually really fun. I got introduced... I was used to rock crawling where your passengers would scream because you're going two miles an hour, and then I got the opportunity to go through the sand dunes at maybe 70 miles an hour in Glamas, and fell in love with a whole different motorized lifestyle that's actually really cool.
[00:21:32.520] - Big Rich Klein
Shelly and I met online.
[00:21:35.680] - Melissa Clark
Nice.
[00:21:36.300] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, it was a relationship.
[00:21:38.710] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome. Yeah, it was through a Dr. Warren's eHarmony, and I was of the same mind that there was the chance of meeting somebody that was going to be that I was going to be long-term with was probably not the original goal when I became single. I'm not sure that Shelly had the same goal as well. But one of the things that I think that helps in a relationship later on is that when you go through a long relationship, you don't know what you want, you know what you don't want the next time around.
[00:22:31.700] - Melissa Clark
At.
[00:22:32.090] - Big Rich Klein
Least with us. We knew what we didn't want, and I think that that really helped. And then we met, when we met, we talked online for months before we actually physically met. And I think that helped as well, because we had all that time to talk about what the boundaries were, what things we definitely didn't want, and things like that. I think that in the long run, and it worked out really, really well.
[00:23:02.300] - Melissa Clark
Yeah. Well, that's good. That's great, Ridge.
[00:23:07.040] - Big Rich Klein
Let's go back to the Bronco Rodios. You're doing the trainings and taking people out on rides in the Broncos, teaching them about the Broncos they've just purchased, or some of them, they don't have Broncos yet, they're looking to buy?
[00:23:28.340] - Melissa Clark
There's a couple of different programs, but the main one that we teach on is that once you buy a Bronco or a Bronco Sport, you get basically a token that you can use at one of the off-rodeo. For a while, when there was such a long wait for people to get their Broncos, they were coming to the off-rodeo to learn about the Bronco that they were going to receive. It seems like now most people have had or have their bronco when they come to Offroding. We teach them tread lightly practices. We teach good solid off-road techniques, and then we teach them the nuances of the Bronco, all the fancy, goat modes and buttons that are different from maybe off-roading that they've done in the past. I would say that probably 90 % of the people that come to the Offroad deal have never even been Offroad before. So we really start at the basics. We teach them about airing down and we teach them about solid practices, just the very basics because it's just about an eight-hour day, and that's about all you can get is if they feel somewhat safe to be off road.
[00:24:39.380] - Melissa Clark
Every once in a while, we get somebody really good offroader, and then I think for them, it's more like they're relearning the fundamentals, but that's primarily what it is, both the bronco as well as the bronco sport.
[00:24:52.030] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. And you're teaching tread lightly principles, right?
[00:24:55.750] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, 100 %. That's before we even get out on the trail. One of the things that Bryan and I both teach is there's a way to be proactive on the trail, there's a way to be reactive on the trail. And reactive often causes trail damage. I used to... People are like, Oh, I can drive open, which is really nice. It's a good technique to know. But if you have lockers, go ahead and engage those lockers. It's not because you aren't a good driver, but that spinning of the tires on the trail causes a lot of trail damage. And we spend a lot of time, too, at the Bronco Off Roadio doing trail repair, repairing the trails that we are using to keep them at their current level of difficulty without huge ruts and things on the trail. Not only our damage, but anybody else's. We do have some times where any given time we've put 150, 200 Broncos when you count the repeat days out on the trail in a given week. And so it definitely requires tread lightly principles as well as ongoing trail repair and maintenance. And those are all things that the Offer Radio pays us to do.
[00:26:09.790] - Melissa Clark
We can do trail repair days and get paid to do that as well. So it's a really nice program that respects the land that we're using. But also what I say is we teach all those Bronco users maybe how to behave on the trail.
[00:26:26.510] - Big Rich Klein
I wish all manufacturers would do that. In any vehicle that goes off road.
[00:26:32.490] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, agreed. I get people all the time that says, Why won't Jeep do that? I can't answer that question, but it has been a cool thing and it actually pulled me. There's always that ongoing, Do you have a Jeep? Do you have a Bronco? We still have our LJ. We have a Jeep and a buggy and a razor and a Bronco and a Bronco Sport. We have all the toys. I see the advantages of both. I don't argue one over the other. I especially have to defend my little sport all the time because people just say it's an escape.
[00:27:13.100] - Big Rich Klein
Re-adged escape.
[00:27:15.020] - Melissa Clark
Exactly.
[00:27:18.220] - Big Rich Klein
Let's talk about how you got involved with The Rebell. How many years have you done it now? Eight. All eight. So you're an original?
[00:27:31.590] - Melissa Clark
Yeah. I'm an original in 100% or whatever. It's interesting journey. I saw that online when the very first year was advertised. I saw that come up on Facebook, I think. As soon as I saw it, it's like I knew that that was for me. I'd already looked a little bit at the gazelle, and that's another rally that's done, I believe, in Morocco. It's an overseas type of trip. I had realized, wow, that entry cost I wasn't going to be able to do. When I saw this one come to the United States, it was like, That is for me. I want to do it. I called Cora, Cora Jokinen, that she owns the Aussie Locker company, Torq-masters. I asked her, Hey, this is really cool. Do you want to do it? She was like, Yep, we're going to do it. I think we were the fourth team. They gave us 104, so I'm assuming that fourth team to register for the rally.
[00:28:38.160] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. Okay. Excellent. How did you meet Cora?
[00:28:42.810] - Melissa Clark
I met Cora through again, through Facebook. There was a Jeep Girls Only page or something like that that had maybe 500 or 1,000 people on that site. I think about 990 of them just posed with their Jeep, sometimes on dirt, sometimes at the mall, and about 10 women in there that were like, serious. Pretty soon you see posts and you find each other. As she mentioned, she was coming out for Eastern Jeep Safari, and I said, Come on out. She really wanted to do Hell's Revenge. I'm like, I got you. Come on out here and let's drive Hell's Revenge and meet up. And so that started that friendship.
[00:29:25.170] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. And did you just do Hell's Revenge or did you get over to pre- Oh, no. I get.
[00:29:29.920] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, we did. Eventually, yeah. It doesn't take me long to get people. If you can get through Hell's Revenge and you still got the bug after that, then it's like, come on over here. Let me show you a Pritchet Canyon. So, yeah, I've been in Pritchet with them several times. It's a blast every time. And I do lead it. I still lead it during Easter Jeeps of Harry every year. It's my one trail that I do every time. I know I've met a lot of people through Pitchet Canyon. It's definitely getting a lot harder. It's not a Bronco Sport trail, let's put it that way. Right.
[00:30:07.630] - Big Rich Klein
I like tying Pitchet into, I think it's called Fisher.
[00:30:16.500] - Melissa Clark
Oh, you do like the Hunter Canyon?
[00:30:18.000] - Big Rich Klein
Hunter Canyon. Yeah, not Fisher. Hunter and then out behind the rocks.
[00:30:23.510] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, we do that at times. I love that too. When I'm leading it for Jeep, Safari, we just always have to see what time we're at the top of Yellow Hill, whether that comes into play or not. That usually wears everybody out if they just made it through the extremeness of Pritchard Canyon to continue to do some eight level and a little bit of nine level, especially when you realize you have to go up White Knuckle Hill.
[00:30:47.830] - Big Rich Klein
Which.
[00:30:48.650] - Melissa Clark
Is always like that was always the icing on the cake for me. I love to go up, but eventually that White Knuckle Hill became very, very challenging as people continue to use it and shear off that traditional line. And so unless there's a lot of rocks in the bottom, it was basically just for my participants, it was just a winch or a pole up the top.
[00:31:12.680] - Big Rich Klein
Makes sense.
[00:31:14.660] - Melissa Clark
Yeah.
[00:31:15.860] - Big Rich Klein
I don't understand why there's not a way around that.
[00:31:21.020] - Melissa Clark
We have a travel plan, so we have to stay on. And there is way around, but not directly around it. So you have to use another trail that takes you out and ties back into behind the rocks road, the main road that goes out to Pritchard Arch, you can get over to that and then be able to meet back up with the trail.
[00:31:49.150] - Big Rich Klein
And that's typically- It makes it a lot longer.
[00:31:51.220] - Melissa Clark
It does. It does, until you factor in how long you've spent trying to fight White Knuckle Hill, but you don't think of that time. On the other it just feels monotonous, because you're just driving bumpy road.
[00:32:03.020] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Yeah, that's the part I hated until we found Hunter, to tie them in, was I hated that gravel road on the way out.
[00:32:14.180] - Melissa Clark
For sure. Yeah, we like to go just to the top of Yellow Hill and come back down. Coming down, Pritchett Canyon is a whole another adventure in seeing what gravity will help your rig try to do to you. I was very afraid of coming down for a long time until I got the opportunity to really study it and learn the lines. I would definitely not do it in a stalkish type vehicle. In the buggy, it's fun, but still you have to pay really good attention or you'll go rolling down, Chewy.
[00:32:49.540] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Let's finish off talking about the rebell. You met Kora, you guys decide to go do it, and what was that process?
[00:33:02.660] - Melissa Clark
Well, she had her LJ for her company that she had taken. I think she had done every man challenge, the King of the hammers, and a few things with it. So she had the vehicle she wanted to put in, and she came in with some sponsorship, which really helped out a lot. We raised the money together to do it. And so we competed that first year, she was the driver and I was the navigator. I think we finished in fifth place, and then we did the same thing the next year, and we finished in fourth, just missed the podium. But then her business got to a point where she couldn't really be off the grid for that long. I planned on not doing it. The rebelle kept rearing its head to the point where it ended out working out for several years when I hadn't planned on doing it.
[00:34:04.300] - Big Rich Klein
And you did once with Tarlin?
[00:34:07.570] - Melissa Clark
I did. 2019 with Teralin, we got second. That was my podium for the four by four classes was with Teralin And that was fun. We switched off driving and navigating. So I like to brag that maybe some of the skills I had that Tarlin picked up on. I mean, she's such an excellent navigator.
[00:34:29.880] - Big Rich Klein
It's almost like she's savant in figuring that out. I mean, it doesn't matter. She's changed partners.
[00:34:39.880] - Melissa Clark
Cars.
[00:34:40.850] - Big Rich Klein
Everything.
[00:34:42.260] - Melissa Clark
And.
[00:34:43.190] - Big Rich Klein
She always has that smile on her face, at least when you see her. I don't know what it's like inside the car, out in the middle of the dunes, or out on the trail and things aren't quite right.
[00:34:55.260] - Melissa Clark
It's the same, yeah. I think we only just laughed the whole time. We just had some great adventures, and it's stressful at times, but her attitude is so good. It made it delightful. I wish I could get her back. I've tried a few.
[00:35:14.840] - Big Rich Klein
Times, but- Yeah, I don't think Nina is going to let her go.
[00:35:17.580] - Melissa Clark
I know. I've had the or something for that. Yeah, she's a... No, Nina, they're a wonderful team, and I love being out there and seeing them out there on course.
[00:35:31.140] - Big Rich Klein
What is the draw to the rebelle for you?
[00:35:37.020] - Melissa Clark
There's a few things. One is I'm very competitive by nature, so I like games. To me, this is the biggest game I've ever played, and she mixes it up. This year she was absolutely crazy in some aspects on some of the things that she threw at us, which then just makes it like, okay, now we have to figure out how to deal with this and how to deal with the next. Then you gave us that transparent map. I was like, gosh, one to 60,000 and I got to try to find a checkpoint with that. Things like that. It's the best game. I keep telling people it's the best game I've ever played because it brings all of my toys together in one place. I've got my offroad, I've got my remote desert, and I've got this navigation game, which I knew nothing about navigation. I don't even think I'd held a compass before when the first one came out. And I just remember watching her little video and we all were rookies that year and figuring it out. And then it develops into a real skill that you have. And I think now, especially with Ford sponsoring me starting in 2021 with the Bronco Sport, it's made it very, I shouldn't say easy, but definitely a lot more accessible to be able to do now with that sponsorship.
[00:37:09.440] - Melissa Clark
And I've also fallen in love with the Xcross Class. And there's also just that nice aspect we were teasing before you started the recording, but there is that nice aspect of being off grid. We often don't allow ourselves time to... And there's a lot of reflection time in the evenings and things during the rebell rally. And it's really another really unexpected, I think, delight for people to be able to just be in that moment and there's nothing else to distract you. There's nobody to call or text, nothinggoing on except right then. That's really been a special part of the rebell for me.
[00:37:50.080] - Big Rich Klein
Right, because a lot of people don't understand that the rebelle takes away all electronics. The nothing is allowed that can have any GPS type help for the teams. So phones, watches, even the car play in the vehicles, any mapping or type systems that the vehicle may have are either shut off or blocked, so they can't be used. You unplug and check out for two weeks, basically.
[00:38:31.650] - Melissa Clark
Pretty much, yeah. Then you get that phone back and it's a dreadful moment. It's a weird like you're excited, but you really don't want to want to see what happens when you turn it back on. But you're wanting to tell your family, Hey, we won, and congratulations, and all that because it's so much fun at the finish line. You take the good with the bad and turn it back on.
[00:38:55.260] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I've noticed some of the ladies, it's almost like they just want to soak in the moment with those that they've befriended on the rally and not be back with reality, the full reality.
[00:39:15.950] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, it's interesting because you explain just now the GPS aspect of the game, but it's definitely competition. Rich, I know you've been in a lot of competitive, a lot of different races, a lot of different competitions, but there is definitely something different about the rebel with the teams competing against each other, but also really becoming friends with other teams. You see them on course and you're like, I see Nina and Teralin. I'm not even in their class anymore, but I want to see Ford get them or those kinds of things, but then you just really love the people too. It's a neat type of event that brings together that competition, but also developing that really deep friendship and sense of camaraderie.
[00:40:09.920] - Big Rich Klein
How was it for you to get over the... I don't know if it's physical, mental, or a combination of the two, but you're out all day on the trail, start at 5:00 in the morning, and then you've got to get your camp set up, get your car into inbound, possibly work on the car, and then start all over. That constant cycle of being put into the extreme, most people don't have that at home or at work. I think just their eight hour shift at work or whatever it happens to be, is the extreme part of their life.
[00:40:57.300] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, for sure. Is when I was in my mid-30s, I started doing half marathons. I really got into the... For a while, I was really into this running scene. To the point where I did a couple of 33-kilometer trail runs, things that push your... I never quite got to a full marathon, but just things that push your body to the edge of exhaustion. I think it's a weird mindset because I talk to some people about it and then they get it and some people are like, You're crazy. But I really think in order to truly appreciate some things, you have to have an element of suffering involved. The suffering aspect of the Rebell Rally is what makes the finishing so sweet. I shouldn't even say it because for me, it doesn't feel like suffering, but there's definitely a huge stress load that you have on your body and on your mind for that number of days. And that's what separates. I tell people if it was just going to go find a checkpoint with a map and compass in the desert, we'd all get 100 % because we know how to play it. We know how to find a checkpoint.
[00:42:18.360] - Melissa Clark
We could all, you give me an hour, I can take you to any black checkpoint. We'll figure it out. But when you have 25 a day and you've been up since 4:00 AM, and this is your fourth day in a row of doing this, and you had to change a tire on the trail and you had to set up your camp, and then you got to camp and you were so exhausted, but you still wanted to go to mechanic and check all that out. You do that day after day after day, and now your brain goes, Checkpoint? What north? Where? And so the winners and the best winners, I think this year nobody scored 90%. Last year there was a few that scored more than 90% of the score. The winners this year didn't get 90%. I attribute that to Force Major, because the trails were harder this year. But I also contribute to Force Emily Miller, who definitely mixed it up this year.
[00:43:12.710] - Big Rich Klein
Yes, she did.
[00:43:14.700] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, I feel sorry for the rookies now. I don't even know how to imagine coming into that stuff as a first time competitor. Now, I just finished year eight. The only thing that surprises me is that she has a new surprise. You just expect it. You just expect her to do. And that's what makes it fun. But yeah, there's definitely that eight days really, and then you come home from it and you realize that's like, wow, you were really tired. Last year I came off with COVID. So I got that little added treat once I got home. I got to work through that. But yeah, there's definitely a lot and people who can prepare for that. I always tell people, I don't know if anybody's listening to this that's thinking about doing the rebel, but one of the things I say is as you practice, try to make it real. Try to put some time at limits on yourself. Try to get up early one day and try a simulated rebel for yourself and put yourself and don't allow yourself to come in and sit down in front of the TV. You'll see what that aspect of an entire whatever that turns out to be 16-hour plus day.
[00:44:34.800] - Melissa Clark
That helps prepare people for what it's really like.
[00:44:39.650] - Big Rich Klein
Very true. One of the things that Emily always talks about is day three. Everybody has what we call a day three, and that's including the staff. The staff has their own rally going on. It may not be scored, but it sure feels like it.
[00:44:56.230] - Melissa Clark
There's endurance for them.
[00:44:58.060] - Big Rich Klein
And then you haveBut what I've noticed is that day three, I think the rookies hit the day three, but I think there's two day threes for them. There's early when they realize that this is a lot harder than they thought it was going to be. Of course, this year I thought the rookies did a much better job, and I think that's the training. More and more and more of them are not taking it for granted and are taking it seriously. Last year, I think that there were some teams out there that got it handed to them because they just thought, Well, I can do this. I can do this in my real life. This will be easy. And then they found out that that big iron door that is the rebel was a lot harder to push open than they thought it would be.
[00:45:56.270] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, yeah. Well, there's this- Go ahead. I was just going to say, there's definitely that day three in the car, and maybe it doesn't hit everybody day three, but you do have to understand that as much as you might love your partner, you're in stressful situation with them day after day after day. Something's going toirritate you. Maybe a lot of things start to irritate you. Maybe a lot of things start to irritate you, or maybe it's mistakes or maybe it's quirks in the car or things like that. And you just having patience and tolerance. I always said it, we always have a safety word that is just meant to hopefully laugh it off, but if somebody really gets irritated with somebody, I mean, our word this year was pineapple, and you just say pineapple and it's supposed to give you a little time out and a reset that we're irritating each other and we need to figure it out.
[00:46:47.240] - Big Rich Klein
That's good to have. We should have that on the staff side as well. If I.
[00:46:54.270] - Melissa Clark
Start here in pineapple and I'm not seeing it served, then I'll know what's.
[00:46:59.750] - Big Rich Klein
Going on. There you go. I find that where I see the stress level, at least with what we do, and that's the sweep at the end of the day, making sure everybody gets back to camp, it seems to be the strongest on that day six, I think it typically is, and that's that last day before Glamas, where we're making that transition day from one area to another, and there's highway involved, and there's all sorts of different terrain that we put you guys on, and it's long-distance, and there's different things thrown in, whether it's an Enduro or some black checkpoints along the way that just makes that day long for some people, especially those that haven't figured out time management. Or the teams that are at the top that are trying to soak every point out of the game so that they can climb up the ladder before getting into glammas.
[00:48:12.860] - Melissa Clark
Yeah.
[00:48:13.750] - Big Rich Klein
And that, to me, is where I see people start to get frazzled.
[00:48:17.760] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, definitely. A lot of mistakes get made. And that's why I've told people like, don't assume that where you're sitting and the standing is where you're going to finish. Each day can change things. The year Tarrylyn and I finished in second place, we started out Glamous Day in fifth, and we just managed Glamous perfectly. We hit every single checkpoint, and that pulled us up almost to the first place. It's again just trying to not make mistakes and being as clear. I think people start to neglect their hydration status by that point. People start to neglect their nutritional needs. Definitely, we've neglected our sleep. You have all those come together, and it's not the healthiest place to be. I can't tell you how many people, including one year of myself, get to Glamous, and they're already dehydrated. And if you have a recovery on Glamous Day or more than one recovery, I see a lot of the girls out there, they get sick. It's too much.
[00:49:26.600] - Big Rich Klein
Right, because Glamous, I've never gotten stuck out there, but I'm not doing all the mileage that you guys do. I may go pick up those blue checkpoints or the sponsor flags, that thing, but we're not hunting like you guys are doing.
[00:49:44.690] - Melissa Clark
Well, Rich, you've not taken a bronco Sport out there either.
[00:49:47.460] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Nope, just the Cherokee and the Raptor, and both of those.
[00:49:52.460] - Melissa Clark
Are- Yeah, definitely. You're also, gosh, you've been driving forever. But no, I think sometimes there's a combination. The vehicle is your third teammate, and there's pros and cons to every person on the team. You have to take the advantages and disadvantages. For us, the sport, I really like the Bronco Sport in the sand. I think it performs really well. But you also just have to manage the fact that you don't have much ground clearance. You do have those smaller wheels, and so you have to dothat. I have to use a little bit better sand driving technique to manage that car to make sure that we don't get stuck. We didn't this year. We didn't get stuck. We helped Sedona and Rebecca. They had the BMW, they got stuck down near Oldsmobile Hill. The only recovery, I think, that we participated in that day was to help them get unstuck. They were the second place team.
[00:50:56.800] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I thought that thethat Bailey and Kaylee with the Mach E, I know that they went through a lot of frustrations, but I thought that sticking it out and working to get that car to finish was phenomenal.
[00:51:19.620] - Melissa Clark
Yeah. There's no other team in my mind that could have done that. I'm not trying to diminish anybody else, but that combination of Bailey with her driving skills and Kaylee with her navigational skills and them coming together and just their competitiveness and their willpower to get that car, I think they did a phenomenal job to finish with that vehicle and to maintain some grace with how challenging it was. I'm in awe. I'm glad that team, whether they are glad or not, I'm glad that team was in that car because I don't know if another team would have been able to finish.
[00:52:06.080] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I don't even think that it would be hard to consider that an SUV. I know that it met the requirements, but being that it was solo to the ground, yes, it had, it met the requirements. But the different things that they got to work out for that vehicle to be able to... And all of the vehicles, the electric vehicles especially, have had to go through that to get that range and get the development of the electric, all-wheel drive vehicles has been phenomenal. I think a lot of that is due to the demands that the Rebell puts on those vehicles.
[00:52:52.900] - Melissa Clark
Oh, 100%. We've already had a little bit of conversation with some of the Mustang team, with the Machy. They learned so much about that car on the Rebell. It really can be a test format for manufacturers. I'm really pleased that manufacturers have recognized the Rebell rally as a premier place to feature their car, especially prototype cars. I've had people tell me, I don't think anybody else has ever driven a Bronco Sport to the excess that you have. Maybe they have in a certain situation, but for day after day after day, beating that car through every rock crawling environment, heat and cold. I think that that's one of the advantages that manufacturers see with the Rebell Rally is this opportunity to take a car that they have a dream about doing and putting it through its paces. I would not be a bit surprised to see some features coming out from marketing when that Maki rally finally does get out there that they've considered some of those things, some of those challenges with the range and ground clearance and things like that. That's the cool when I see the manufacturer-sponsor side is to see how we as competitors not only are competing in a rally, but we're helping make better vehicles out there for those manufacturers.
[00:54:25.050] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I thought that something like like Porsche did with the Cayenne, where you push the off-road mode and the thing lifts up three inches or whatever it was would be perfect. Like Land Rover, when they default on the overarticulation, and the default goes to slam it to the ground, those are the things that the manufacturers don't really think about. When do you overarticulate? It's not in the parking lot. Right. You're out on a trail and the thing goes into default. You need a computer to undo that unless you're Josh Mcworthy and can figure it out. The car is sitting basically like the Mach E did, one inch off the ground. I think that those are things that engineers, smart people, especially when it's all on paper, but that practical aspect of making it work in real life. I always like to go back to the Toyota starter that is underneath the intake manifold. When I saw that for the first time, I was like, Why?
[00:55:52.760] - Melissa Clark
Yes, there are some things like that. I do like the fact that I can only speak for Ford because they're the only manufacturer that sponsored me. But I love their level of investment and attentiveness in hearing about our inputs. What do we like? What do we wish was different? I really think that they're serious about that. I think that they are trying to, in further your models, fix some of those things that get identified in places, not only in just generalized offroading, but in something like the Rebell rally.
[00:56:31.690] - Big Rich Klein
I agree. They did that with, and I know it goes all the way back to cars, the 40s and stuff like that, that they were road racing with the special team development, special vehicle development teams and stuff like that. But the Raptor was one of those programs. The Bronco was that way. I love seeing that investment.
[00:56:58.450] - Melissa Clark
In.
[00:56:59.040] - Big Rich Klein
The long run, it pays off.
[00:57:01.600] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, and that's why I like that there's that bone stock class because that shows you. I tell people the Bronco support that I drive in the rally, it's exactly the same as the one that you could go get at the Ford dealership. It just has a fancy wrap on it. That's the only thing that makes it look any different. There is nothing on it, no additional skid plates, no change of tires. It is exactly if you go buy a Bronco Sport Badlands, it's the same vehicle. There are some places that are a little worse for wear, but we finished that now three years in a row. Actually, the car has won four years in a row. Shelby Hall drove it in 2020. I've driven it in '21, '22, and '23. And so it's an undefeated car, which Ford is really proud of in that class. And we talk about rock crawling and then we talk about X-cross. And I think the fascination for me in coming into the X-cross, I will admit that when I was first offered the sponsorship, I was like, Oh, the X-cross class, they're just going to be driving around the pavement and then tiptoe into these areas, and maybe there's a checkpoint on the edge of the dunes or something like that.
[00:58:16.800] - Melissa Clark
Then I actually did it and I was like, Wow. Because hardcore offroading is my jam. In the four by four class, because Emily can't push everybody to the breaking point, some of the rallying or most of the rallying actually in the four by four classes was not overly challenging for me. As driving, I'd find myself sometimes a little bit bored. But I got into the X-cross class, and now it's like, There's rocks everywhere. I have an eight-inch ground clearance. I can be taken out at any moment. I've got to pay attention all the time. That's what I like about offroading. I love the technical aspect and paying attention. Can I get... Can we take the X route? Can we get to the top of that hill? It's a lot more challenging in what some people would consider a car than it is if you show up in a Bronco Raptor.
[00:59:12.600] - Big Rich Klein
Right. So true.
[00:59:16.030] - Melissa Clark
I keep saying we had 10 cars in it this year. I keep saying somebody else is going to figure this out and we're going to have a balanced four by four and X cross class. But it hasn't quite happened yet. But I've done both. I've done both classes. I've done driving and navigating, and I'll just tell you, a drive-in in the X-cross class is a blast.
[00:59:43.620] - Big Rich Klein
And do you believe that the best teams do have that the driver and navigator can switch positions and not lose much?
[00:59:55.900] - Melissa Clark
I think that is a critical aspect. If you want to be super successful in a role, that that person that's in the other seat needs to be able to... They may not be as good as you on that role. Might not be the best navigator, might not be the best driver. But switching off is critical, and Itry to really... What I like about it, and I'd like to do this, the past few years I've just been soul-driving, but I like... Because as a driver, believe it or not, you're more rested. The navigator's brain is overloaded and fried. And if there's days when the navigator just isn't feeling it, give them a rest, let them drive the car. You get in that navigator seat and you start doing navigation. The other thing I try to do as a driver is to take as much of the navigational load away from my navigator as I can, meaning I let her stay in the seat and stay over the map. If she needs headings, I get out with a compass and I do the headings. That way I can sight where I'm driving anyway. So there's a lot of things you can do, but if you don't have the knowledge of that role, then you're relying completely on that person to drive you there and fix the car, and the other person has to be fully relied on to know all the navigation and be able to do all the Enduro Math and all those other things.
[01:01:15.460] - Melissa Clark
Nina and Carolyn can switch off. We've seen that happen this year. I think the best teams that you should fully train for each role.
[01:01:25.300] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I agree. What would went through you guys' mind when you got that whiteout map?
[01:01:35.210] - Melissa Clark
You know what I did? Actually, I was like, darn it, because I had played around with that idea and I had made some different scales. But that is something that I wanted to understand in the last year. That was something I was able to help my navigator with because she had not gone there with weird scales and hidden maps. I just said, On any map, there's got to be data here that's going to help us figure out how to find that checkpoint. We quickly just took some paper and made a scale and were able to plot. We found the blue right away. I was really proud of that, and we found our later blue. I need to go back and double-check. We were out of black. I'm sure we were. We were just afraid to take a wide miss. We were afraid because we were running out of time and we hurried there. But no, it's one of those things where she's given us poor maps before for us to try to use. So I'm not going to say I was totally prepared, but I wasn't blindsided by it either.
[01:02:43.720] - Big Rich Klein
There were some teams that were blindsided.
[01:02:46.360] - Melissa Clark
Yes, yes. Yeah, and you guys got to see everybody's reaction, because I think you guys were the ones collecting maps from us and handing us out.
[01:02:56.930] - Big Rich Klein
That- Yeah, we were the messenger that people wanted to kill.
[01:02:59.920] - Melissa Clark
You were. You were. I was like, Darn it, the videographer got in the window and said, If you had one word to describe this, what would you say? I just said shitty because it was quite a challenge, and at the end of the day, when you're really tired to have that thrown on you. Emily says that's what makes fantastic navigators. If you have the best maps and all the time, you can go figure that out. If you've got enough data and you're resourceful and you can find it, that makes you a fantastic navigator.
[01:03:35.880] - Big Rich Klein
Right. There were some people that just... Maria Guittar looked at it and was like, Oh, right. And she was excited.
[01:03:44.570] - Melissa Clark
Oh, yeah, she does that stuff all the time. Actually, I talked with her, because she's one of the four teams as well. And I said, how did you approach that? Because I want to understand it in case those things happen next year. Because she is an engineer. So her engineer brain just totally absorbed that. I don't have an engineer brain. So it's fascinating to see her approach. And a lot of people approach navigation a little different but still get the same answer. So it was neat to see how she transferred that knowledge from the one to 100,000th map into creating that scale and quickly being able to make it work. I thought it was really cool.
[01:04:21.980] - Big Rich Klein
What are the plans for the future?
[01:04:27.890] - Melissa Clark
Besides Off Radio guiding, I'm also working for the Bronco Nation. It's an online forum. We write articles. We have some events. We do a lot of events with Supercells. I do a lot of guiding. Brian and I both do some guiding with the Bronco Nation. I have that job as well as the off-rodio. I'm going to continue to do that and then just working to see what else shows up. The Rebell has become a part of my life now. I don't know how many years you have to do something to create a habit, but eight years seems like a pretty good number. I definitely want that to be part of it. I think about the Rebell, talk about the Rebell a lot. Now that we're getting rested up from being back from the Rebell, starting to get out the maps again, look at checkpoints, analyzing things. Rebell is still in the future, and we'll just see how things develop. I still keep my nursing license, so if things get boring and I want to go back to do a little of that, I can too. We'll just continue to enjoy motorsports and enjoy the offroading in the community.
[01:05:44.500] - Melissa Clark
The Bronco community has actually been really fun. Getting to meet a lot of people and helping them learn to use their Broncos has just been a real kick. I hope to continue to do that for a while.
[01:05:57.840] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Are you signed up for the next bell?
[01:06:02.020] - Melissa Clark
Well, Ford has given very strong signals that we're all in. So I'm going to ride along with Ford. We'll have to see what happens next year. I think I'll be in the Bronco Sport, but there's all kinds of things developing. So people just have to stay tuned and see what happens next year.
[01:06:25.980] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, okay. Something to look forward to. Excellent. Yeah.
[01:06:30.050] - Melissa Clark
I know always something fun to look forward to. And I think we'll see a lot of the same Ford team. I think we'll see a lot of them back next year as well, and maybe in different vehicles, maybe the same. We just't know. It's a little too soon to tell, but it is really reassuring. In years before, we didn't know if they were going to support again, and now we've been given all the signals that a budget's already been set in place. Ford wants to play. They're a silver sponsor this year, so I think it looks really good for us that are sponsored by Ford to be able to compete again.
[01:07:06.790] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Melissa, I want to say thank you so much for taking your morning and having a conversation with me and letting us know about Melissa and your background and what got you to where you're at today.
[01:07:23.170] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, I appreciate it, Rich. I'm Instagram-ing, so if anybody wants to see some of my adventures, it's Bronco Sport for the win, but four is the number four, so bronco Sport for the win. If you want to check me out on Instagram, I'm almost past the age of Instagramming, but I am learning and putting some reels on, and we're going to be doing some fun stuff. So if people want to check me out, that'd be great.
[01:07:46.760] - Big Rich Klein
Well, one of the things that I've always learned about social media is each one of the platforms starts out for the youth, and then transforms into an older mindset, taking over, and then something new comes up for the youth. Right. Yeah. When we're jumping in TikTok, then there's got to be something else going on.
[01:08:14.830] - Melissa Clark
Yeah, it might take a little while. I still haven't even tried TikTok, but I do like Instagram, and I do have a lot of friends on there, and so if people want to check out some of that, I'd love to see you on Instagram.
[01:08:29.370] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Well, thank you, Melissa. And have fun at Cima. Will do. We'll talk to you again. Thank you. Okay.
[01:08:37.820] - Melissa Clark
I appreciate.
[01:08:38.630] - Big Rich Klein
It, Rich.
[01:08:39.110] - Melissa Clark
Okay, bye bye. Have a good day. Yeah, bye bye.
[01:08:41.950] - Big Rich Klein
Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you would think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the guts that you can. Thank you.