Don Amador has been a land user for a lifetime, and a land use warrior for almost as long. Don was inducted into the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame in 2016. Don is why we say; legends live at ORMHOF.org. Be sure to tune in on your favorite podcast app.
5:24 – the happiest day of my life being a Native Californian was moving back to Northern California
12:00 – I guess my activism scared a couple of board members, so I got uninvited from the board
16:23 – I was appointed by Pete Wilson in ’94 to be on the OHV Commission of State Parks
22:30 – moving from unmanaged to managed recreation has really benefited OHV on a national scale
30:53 – a lot of our offroad opportunities occur at the local level with decisions made by local land managers
Special thanks to ORMHOF.org for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
Don Amador has been a land user for a lifetime, and a land use warrior for almost as long. Don was inducted into the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame in 2016. Don is why we say; legends live at ORMHOF.org. Be sure to tune in on your favorite podcast app.
5:24 – the happiest day of my life being a Native Californian was moving back to Northern California
12:00 – I guess my activism scared a couple of board members, so I got uninvited from the board
16:23 – I was appointed by Pete Wilson in ’94 to be on the OHV Commission of State Parks
22:30 – moving from unmanaged to managed recreation has really benefited OHV on a national scale
30:53 – a lot of our offroad opportunities occur at the local level with decisions made by local land managers
Special thanks to ORMHOF.org for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
[00:00:01.060] -
Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the offroad industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future Legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land-use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call Offroad. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active in Offroad. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call Offroad.
[00:00:46.120] -
This episode of Conversations with Big Rich is brought to you by the Offroad Motorports Hall of Fame. The mission of the Hall of Fame is to educate and inspire present and future generations of the Offroad community by celebrating the achievements of those who came before. We invite you to help fulfill the mission of the Offroad Motorports Hall of Fame. Join, partner or donate today. Legends live at ormhof.org.
[00:01:14.010] – Big Rich Klein
On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I will be discussing life with land-use warrior, Don Amador.
[00:01:22.250] - Big Rich Klein
From riding motorcycles to making a run at politics, Blue Ribbon Coalition to CAL4Wheel fighting the good fight has been his life, and landed Don in the Off Road Motorports Hall of Fame in 2016. Don, it's great to be talking to you today, and I can't wait to hear about everything that you've done.
[00:01:44.080] - Don Amador
Yeah, Rich, hey, Thanks for the interview today and look forward to share and how it got started.
[00:01:51.030] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Let's talk about those very, very, very early years. Where were you born and raised?
[00:01:58.750] - Don Amador
I was born and raised in Eureka in Humboldt County up on the north Coast of California. Offroading has always been a part of my life. I remember just as a young kid, back in the '60s, I wrote anything that had a motor on it. Back in those days, there wasn't a lot of fancy vehicles to ride. It was tote goats, minibikes. I lived out on the outskirts of Eureka, so we were close to the forest. Our local timber company property back in the day where they would let us ride on the trails there as long as we didn't interfere with the logging operations. Then, of course, Six Rivers National Forest. I grew up riding motorcycles, hunting in four wheel drive vehicles. So offroading has been a part of my life for a long time.
[00:02:52.140] - Big Rich Klein
And those early years up in Eureka, going to school, what would you say? Were you a good student or were you indifferent and just waiting until the bell ring?
[00:03:06.570] - Don Amador
Well, back in the day, I would say I was a pretty good student, but I always tried to balance academics with having a good time. So that's probably the best answer.
[00:03:17.700] - Big Rich Klein
Did you participate in any athletics?
[00:03:23.840] - Don Amador
Yeah, I played just intermural football and I played all the sports, basketball and stuff. I went to a small school and didn't have a lot of big sports programs, but I enjoyed all the sports and then after school, fishing, going hunting, and riding off road.
[00:03:44.560] - Big Rich Klein
There you go. What was the first bike that you owned?
[00:03:50.290] - Don Amador
My very first bike was in the late '60s. I got a step-through 1966 Trail 90.
[00:03:57.480] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, nice. Little old Honda.
[00:03:59.630] - Don Amador
Yeah, little Honda. So that was my first street. Of course, back in those days, all of them were dual sports for the most part. And so when I got my learners permit at 15 and a half, I was able to ride that motorcycle without a passenger. So yeah, I got to know all the roads and trails pretty well around Eureka.
[00:04:21.880] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. And did you start working early in life, like a side job or something like that, going to school? Or did you wait until after school?
[00:04:34.660] - Don Amador
No, we were at a raised where my dad, mom, they liked me to earn money for paying for my hobbies. So I always had a job, probably starting when I was 11 or 12 years old, doing yard work, whatever to pay for my 22 shells or oil for my motorcycle. And it was a good life growing up there. And I think some of those that early time of always working and laid a good foundation for where I'm at today.
[00:05:14.330] - Big Rich Klein
And high school, you said you went to a fairly small school?
[00:05:19.450] - Don Amador
Yes, I did.
[00:05:20.930] - Big Rich Klein
And Eureka is not a big town anyway.
[00:05:24.380] - Don Amador
No, Eureka is not that big. And so I grew up there. And then I went to go to college of the Redwoods for a little bit in the '70s when I graduated from high school and ended up actually getting my Associate of Science, Ultrasound and Radiology degree back in Kettering, Ohio, in the mid '70s. And I was back there, I had just gotten married in '76, and my wife and I moved back there. And I had a Toyota Land Cruiser back there for the couple of years I was there, and so I got to explore a lot of Ohio. And, of course, the happiest day of my life being in native California was moving back to Northern California.
[00:06:09.810] - Big Rich Klein
Right. What did you miss about California when you were... Now, let me explain everything to people that are around the country that don't know this, but before the political climate became what it is here in California and became pretty oppressive, it wasn't so back in the '60s and '70s and even the '80s. I mean, it started with with Brown, MoonBeam, but we still had some good years there before things got out of control. So what was it that you missed about California when you were in Ohio?
[00:06:50.950] - Don Amador
So growing up in the Pacific Northwest, where you have a lot of mountains and forest with a lot of trails and moving back to Ohio, it's all pretty flat back there. And you don't have the public lands that we do out here in California in the West. So everything's private property, I think, like I said. And so being able to go out in Rome and backcountry areas on your forest service or BLM lands like I grew up enjoying, it just wasn't there in Ohio. So getting back out to Northern California, where we had a lot of public lands and getting back out on the roads and trails that I grew up enjoying, that was really one of the best things about moving back.
[00:07:43.560] - Big Rich Klein
And did you move back into the same area that you grew up in the Urecae area?
[00:07:48.230] - Don Amador
No, I actually moved into Contra Costa County, the East Bay area, out towards the Delta, Stockton area. My wife had medical... Her family had a medical business there, so I went and worked there doing X-ray and ultrasound for a number of years. And then after work, she liked riding motorcycles, too. In fact, our whole extended family rode off road, so we would work hard during the week and then go up to the Mendesino National Forest or Stanislas, and spend a lot of our weekends and holidays with 25, 30, people camping and off-roading and having a great time and really enjoyed getting my kids, two boys into it and having fun riding with our cousins and aunts and uncles. It was really a great time back in the late '70s and early '80s and also got into riding, endurals, motorcycle competition events, and really a great way back in the day to get to explore a lot of forest service and BLM areas that you may not go to on a regular basis, but that you go to for events. So that was really where I got to experience a lot of Northern and Central California and really, really enjoyed that.
[00:09:15.710] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. And when did you realize that land use was going to be a calling?
[00:09:27.120] - Don Amador
Yeah, so It's fine. Of course, I always voted and everything, but really, of course, when you're working hard, you got raising a family and stuff, you don't have a lot of time to spend understanding the world of politics. But I would say, I think it was around 1987, and I was out writing and I didn't know it at the time, but the Wilderness Act of 1984 was passed. And that closed a lot of the Forest Service trail systems that I had ridden on historically. Almost every national forest had huge chunks of forest land that had been opened to offroading for motorcycles, four wheel drives was closed. And so as they were implementing that, I'd be going up camping and riding in areas that I used to ride in. And all of a sudden, I saw close signs. And they were all over the place. And I saw that. And I didn't like seeing those closures. And I kept seeing them. And so I said to myself, it was just a calling or something where I said, I need to find out what's happening here. And so I started reading all the publications, the motorcycle magazines, and other stuff.
[00:11:00.060] - Don Amador
I kept coming across the Blue Ribbon Coalition at the time in the late '80s, started by Clark Collins. And I came across other organizations and stuff, but I kept seeing them in a lot of publications. And so I said, I need to go find out what's happening. And so I actually paid for my way back to Salt Lake City. I think it was in 1990. Blue Ribbon had a convention there, their annual convention. So I paid my way, flew back there, and got to know the whole gang, Clark, Collins, and Dena Cook, and others, and decided at that point that I was going to... This was something I was passionate about and I wanted to get involved in.
[00:11:50.940] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. And so then you not only became a member, but you eventually transitioned into one of their reps, correct?
[00:12:00.760] - Don Amador
Well, yeah, actually, I became a board member. And then in a few years, was the president or a chairman of the board for a couple of years. And until I think I was getting too involved, and I guess my activism scared a couple of the board members, so I got uninvited from the board. But shortly after that, I think '94 or '95, Clark, Colin said, Well, we need you on as a rep. So that's actually when I started my offroad career, is Clark, Colin said, Hey, we need you to come work for us. And so that's how that started.
[00:12:47.350] - Big Rich Klein
And then as a Western rep, what were your duties?
[00:12:51.600] - Don Amador
So back in the day, those were some pretty contentious times, and we were right in the middle of... We had the timber wars in the Pacific Northwest, the whole Spotted Owl, that started to close down areas for both casual riding and permitted events. Then we had the Endangered Species Act. We all know about stories about the blunt-nosed lizard and other animals that were being used at the time as surrogates for closing down access to public lands. And also at the time, Mike Dombek, who was chief of the Forest Service, the Forest Service was trying to enact a roadless agenda, closing down thousands of miles of roads. And this was all happening in the 1990s. So it was a real busy time. And so that's how I got introduced into land use. And at the same time, when I had that awakening in the late '80s, I also wanted to understand about the politics because then I realized that, hey, there's people that are elected officials and they're appointees, they're making all these decisions. And I need to find out about politics. So back in the early '90s, as I was getting involved in Blue Ribbon, I also started to work on some campaigns for Congress because that's really the best way.
[00:14:27.270] - Don Amador
And I tell this to folks, too, that want to get involved in land use that really understanding politics, becoming skilled in that, understanding it. One of the best ways to do that is actually take a deep dive, start working some campaigns, understand how the political process works. Get on a commission, join a Resource Advisory Council, start building your tradecraft. And that really, I think, is the best way to become an effective advocate, is get involved in that, commissions boards, racks, and then just be committed.
[00:15:10.790] - Big Rich Klein
And being committed can be difficult. I got involved a little bit with LandUse in the early 2000s. It all came about late 1990s with the Grand Staircase, Escalante. I was living in Cedar City at the time, and Suah had stepped up and we're threatening to sue if they didn't close all that off and tried to put together an offroad coalition of users to fight that. Then I moved back to California and the group that I put together that had been meeting for almost a year just dissolved as soon as I moved away, which was sad. I hated to see that. Then got involved with the Rubicon, with Friends of the Rubicon and all that stuff with Dell when things started to go sideways up there. And it's difficult because it felt to me like I was just beating my head against the wall and nobody else seemed to give a damn.
[00:16:23.550] - Don Amador
Yeah. Well, the trouble is that in your story is very typical is that most people, they see an issue, they get involved with it. But most people only have two or three years to really donate to that because they get burned out. The politics and the grind, this stuff never really ends. And so it's a grind. And at the same time, people are trying to raise a family, make a living and stuff. So burnout is like 95 % of people that get involved in this stuff, they burn out, and understandably so. But for me, I actually enjoy politics. I worked on Pete Wilson's campaign for Governor '94, and they knew I was an offroader. That's actually how I got asked by the Wilson administration to be on the OHV Commission at State Parks. I was appointed by Pete Wilson in '94 to be on the commission and served there until 2000. I was a chairman for the last couple of years. But it all takes a lot of time. Being committed, if I wanted to make a difference, I knew that it was going to be really... It actually was a calling of a lifetime for me.
[00:17:59.530] - Don Amador
I just felt like it was something that I wanted to be committed to, make a difference, and I'm glad I did.
[00:18:08.750] - Big Rich Klein
Right. And you did a lot with not only Blue Ribbon, but Cal Four Wheel. That was part of being with the Commission?
[00:18:17.740] - Don Amador
Yeah, so Jim Bramham, he was on the OHV Commission with me back in the 1990s. And then I worked with Don Klusman in the in the 2000s when we overhauled the California State OHV program with SB 742. I don't know if you remember at the time, but environmental groups had taken over the OHV Commission. And at the time, the OHV Commission had grant authority where we could change grant numbers and everything. And unlike the other departments like Boating the Waterways, which was an academic exercise, administratively run by staff, the OHV Commission, commissioners had the grant authority. So a number of environmental groups got their members of... They were appointed by the legislature and governor. So there was a strong environmental group, majority on the OHV Commission in the 2000s. Of course, defunding the program at the time, that was the way they saw as getting rid of OHV. And so they defunded a lot of grant programs, monies that go for trail maintenance, and facility improvements, purchasing new properties. They really targeted that and actually tried to zero out a number of grants at the time of a very popular riding areas. And so working with Califord Wheel Drive and Corva and there were some others, Orba, Fred Wiley and those guys, we actually went to the governor's office.
[00:20:08.900] - Don Amador
Schwartz, Digger was governor at the time. This was in 2006. And basically said to the administration that we need to overhaul. The program is not overhauled. The OHV program at State Parks, then you just need to can it, because it was causing more harm than good. And so, fortunately, they said, Oh, well, we don't want to do that. So the legislature said, Well, why don't you guys put together a team and come up with a program that works. So there was a small group of us. Don Clusman was on that group and a few others. So we spent the summer of 2007 in Sacramento on the weekends rewriting the entire OHV program, which is basically the program we have today, where the grants program is run administratively and the commission still has a value by being a public forum where people can come and share their concerns and have discussions. And the commissioners still have an important role, but that grant authority, one of the things we did was strip that grant authority out in SP 742, which I think really has benefited the program. And we've also strengthened some of the environmental tenants. And so I think we have a model program now and very proud of what we did there.
[00:21:46.910] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. One of the things that I believe, and maybe I'm wrong, but the environmentalists really target East Coast money donations by showing areas that are open for use, open riding areas for all vehicles, and showing damage that they say is all over the West. And if they don't get these areas closed, this will become the whole West. And they get a lot of money support from East Coast to try to help shut things down. Do you find that? Do you think that's pretty close on- Yeah.
[00:22:30.680] - Don Amador
I would say that was certainly the modus operandi in the '70s, '80s, and '90s in early 2000s. But I think when... And a lot of people were concerned about when the Forest Service did travel management in 2005 to designate roads, trails, and areas, and the BLM has since been doing that too. But since we collectively have been designating areas, roads, trails, and areas to write in, rather than just having allowed uses everywhere for OHV, we actually have designated areas where we ride, has been probably one of the best things we've done for OHV. It armors or protects those areas from the large scale attacks we've had in the past. Now certainly, there are still efforts in various places to close OHV. I think Oceano is one of them, and there are some others. But looking at the big picture from 30,000 feet, I think that going to designated riding areas and routes, and then also the not only California, but other states have started their own OHV programs, call it managed recreation, where we've moved from unmanaged to managed. I think doing that over the last 20, 30 years has really benefited OHV on a national scale.
[00:24:20.620] - Don Amador
And I would say one other thing that over the years, I've gotten to know a number of environmental group leaders here in California and elsewhere. And I think in actually going out with them in the field, and these are, I would call them, more common sense environmental leaders, and a lot of them are, and now they support our use in designated areas. Now, certainly they're going to be looking for areas to designate for monuments, or wilderness areas, or special areas. But at least here in California, you're not seeing a lot of those proposals actually including legal right and areas today. And so that has changed, and I think it's a good thing where we can find common ground with some of these conservation groups. It really benefits everybody.
[00:25:23.460] - Big Rich Klein
So compromise.
[00:25:25.450] - Don Amador
Yeah, I call it principle compromise, where they're not... One of the things I found is for most of the conservation groups in OHV, we've always said we're environmentalists, too. We have probably 80 % or more of the shared values or common values. And if we can operate in that 80 % agreement zone, that's better for everybody. And I think we're seeing a lot more of that than when we saw back in the '80s and '90s when I first got involved.
[00:26:00.520] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. And your trail political action committee. Talk about that some.
[00:26:08.300] - Don Amador
Yeah. So the trail pack, I saw the need to get involved in supporting candidates that share our values. And there was no OHV groups at the time, at least on the national level, that was doing that. And so that was another thing. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I learned by watching others. And so I saw pretty much all of the environmental groups had partner political action committees that supported candidates that shared their values. And so I thought, you know what? Ohv, we need to get into the game, too. So I talked to some folks and they go, yeah, we'll support you getting that started. So Ipart of the trail pack, I think it was in 2010 or '12 to get ready for the 2012 elections. And so anyway, I got that formed up. And I think our first candidate we endorsed was Senator Heller in Nevada, went over and did a fundraiser for him. And it was a bipartisan. It was a non-partisan political action committee. And we did we supported both Republicans and Democrats that shared our commitment to access to public lands. I did that for, I think, three election cycles.
[00:27:41.770] - Don Amador
And then it just got too big of a project for me. I was basically having to run it myself. Between that and work and everything else, basically throttled that back. And so it's just kinder, idling on the sideline, not doing anything. But I don't know if we'll ever bring it back, but had a lot of fun doing it. We were well known in Washington, D. C, because we focused on federal campaigns. And so we had a lot of fun doing it, and glad we did.
[00:28:18.410] - Big Rich Klein
And what year did you run for office?
[00:28:21.540] - Don Amador
Yeah, so I ran for Congress in 1998 in the 10th congressional district in California. And sometimes you have to be careful what you write. I wrote an article for Blue Ribbon, I think it was in '94, and it was about our community running for office when you get a chance. And so, you know what? And since then, I've got, there's one of my friends who's a county supervisor up here in Northern California. He's an offroad guy. And we've had others that have run for office and have won. But anyway, I wrote that article. And then the politics in the 10th congressional district, which is East Carcasa County, between Antioch and Stockton. And so the congressman retired and I saw an opening there. And so doggone it, I wish I hadn't written that article. So I go, You know what? I've got to do it. And even though I didn't win, I would say that doing that, I would say that's getting like a graduate degree in politics, because when you run for office at that level, you learn a lot about politics, both the good and the bad. There's a dark side to politics, as you know.
[00:29:59.690] - Don Amador
But learning how to operate, how the machines operate, et cetera, I think that really, I think, helped me up my game in understanding of the political process. And so even though I didn't win, which my wife was glad I didn't, it was still a great educational experience. And I'm really glad I did that.
[00:30:28.040] - Big Rich Klein
She didn't want you to win because of the amount of time you'd be away?
[00:30:31.450] - Don Amador
She wanted to be back in Washington, D. C. All the time.
[00:30:37.830] - Big Rich Klein
She didn't want to be a congressional wife, huh?
[00:30:40.260] - Don Amador
No, no, no, no. So anyway, it worked out for the best. I'm like I said, I'm glad I did.
[00:30:47.280] - Big Rich Klein
What do you think you pulled out of that? What was the most important lesson that you learned out of that?
[00:30:53.360] - Don Amador
Oh, boy. I would say thinking back that I think a lot of people make the mistake that they think all the power resides in in Washington, D. C. But what I've learned from that and then over the years is that, and you may know this, too, that actually a lot of our offroad opportunities occur at the local level with decisions made by local land managers.
[00:31:25.840] - Big Rich Klein
And.
[00:31:27.450] - Don Amador
So I encourage people today to, sure, it's great to work, political campaigns and stuff, but if you can focus on building a quality relationship with your local land agency, your local land manager, being a support mechanism when they make good decisions, but also challenging bad decisions they may make. But being there as a partner and having a good relationship, one of the accident I found out from the things I learned is that the quality of your OHV program is directly proportional to the quality of your relationship. And so areas that don't have a good OHV program, most of the time, the clubs or OHV community either has a poor or no relationship with that land agency. And some of our programs, Imperial Sand Dunes, Chappaqua, Taha, etc, those programs are good because there's a great relationship between the user community. And so that's where I would say probably the most important thing I learned.
[00:32:47.660] - Big Rich Klein
One of the things that I've been trying to get people to understand is that, when their kids are interested in outdoor activities, is to maybe encourage them to take that into a lifelong profession and join the land use agencies at the employee level and work their way up into the agencies so that we have off-road enthusiasts that eventually could run agency offices. It's not something that a lot of our people, our side of the fence, you might say, has pushed, or not pushed, but made their kids aware of what they could be doing in the future. Do you think that's a good and a.
[00:33:52.180] - Don Amador
Legitimate- No, you make a great point. I've done that too, is to try to encourage people going to college and stuff, or even not, you don't have to go to college. You can start off doing being a forestry technician or firefighter, etc, and become part of the solution. And you probably know this, too, a lot of the line officers and rec staff that are in the Forest Service and BLM, a lot of them have a, or not a lot, but quite a few have a power sports background. They grew up riding, etc, and their love of the outdoors. And so, yeah, if we can get more of our kids to take that path, I know the Forest Service is struggling with salaries, etc, Trying to get hired on there is very difficult. But yeah, if we can encourage more folks to choose that career path, we'd be better off. Absolutely.
[00:34:59.920] - Big Rich Klein
As an event promoter that does events all across the United States, Western and Eastern, is that what I realized is that dealing with, say, BLM, they have a directive that comes down out of Washington, and then it goes into the state level, and then it goes into the local level. It really depends on the person that leads up that local office on the interpretation of everything that they're given. There's no consistency. I do an event. We do events down in Farmington, New Mexico. Our BLM office there, as far as our events go, the recreational planner and even the head of the office there really likes the idea of what we do off-road recreation-wise. Then you go to another portion of the office or the state and try to get something going there and you just find you get stonewalled, big brick wall. Just, no, we're not going to accept applications for events. They do everything they can throwing NEPA studies and everything that's involved with that at you and can delay what you want to do for years until you just finally throw your hands up.
[00:36:46.740] - Don Amador
You're exactly right, and that gets back to that relationship. And also that understanding like you're right, all those decisions are made at the local level and how they're implemented. And I've run into this numerous times myself where you have a line officer, a decision maker with an agency and they do not like OHV, period. And they can make it very difficult or impossible, particularly for putting on an event. So my suggestion has been, and some people don't like this answer, but my response to clubs and event promoters is, go where you're wanted and focus on those areas. But don't ever give up on those other areas that right now don't want you there, because all it takes is a change of personnel. And I've seen this many times where that decision maker that doesn't like OHV, they're transferred or they retire, and they get a new manager there. They're pro-public recreation. They love people coming on the unit. Family is enjoying outdoor recreation. And so there you go. So always be looking for those opportunities, but don't beat your head against the wall trying to do events or put in trail systems. They're on a unit that doesn't want you there.
[00:38:18.820] - Big Rich Klein
Right. That can be really difficult because the Carson City office, when I owned Vora and was putting on events in the early 2000s with Vora. Carson City between... I mean, what Ed Robinson had started with the permitting process and getting through everything at Carson City was great for Vora. I mean, he had a good working relationship. And then I took over, tried to keep that relationship going, but also was putting on the rock crawls under the cow rocks. And weand then Wirok name. I was going in there trying to get, keep something that was well established under one name, trying to get something established under another name, but being the same person and fought really hard to get Moonrocks open to put on events and spent a lot of money going through all the studies, paying for everything that had to be paid for back then, and then getting a five-year permit, and then they turn around and shut it down after two events. And just at a whim. Their excuses were easily overcome, but they just said no. After spending all that money, and it was at least on the rock crawling side. And then because I got contentious and threatened to take them to court over the Moon Rocks and being able to rock crawl out there, at least with events, they started hammering me on the Vora side, on the offroad racing side, which had always had a nice relationship.
[00:40:20.330] - Big Rich Klein
They made life very difficult, and then even came and tried to get the guys, they were dealing with the guys trying to save Sand Mountain, and told them that they needed to talk to me to get me to back off. Otherwise, they were going to make life hard on the Sand Mountain guys. And I just thought that was total malarchy to keep things family-orientated there.
[00:40:48.800] - Don Amador
Yeah, that's what you know. That story is... I'm aware of those battles out there in the Carson City field office area. But that gets back to, particularly when it comes to permitted events, is that all those are discretionary.
[00:41:09.440] - Big Rich Klein
Yes.
[00:41:10.180] - Don Amador
And while the federal agencies have a multiple use mandate, they have to create opportunities for various multiple uses, that only applies to casual uses, not permitted events. And so that's why even like with Dual Sport Rides, some units, they'll create all kinds of roadblocks and extra fees and stuff for doing a permitted event. While others go, Yeah, that's fine here. Make it pretty easy. But that gets back to personalities and relationships. And again, if that formula isn't working, man, it's really hard to dig yourself out of a hole on that.
[00:41:59.780] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Yeah, that's what I found. Because I wasn't always the politically correct, you might say. Right. And so that hurt.
[00:42:12.470] - Don Amador
Yeah.
[00:42:13.010] - Big Rich Klein
And now Laura Butcher, who's running Vora, is being very successful working out of that office by being kind, but also wielding a hammer when she needs to. You're right. Having a very good telephone book, you might say.
[00:42:34.790] - Don Amador
Yeah. Well, that gets back to being supporting good policies and challenging bad ones.
[00:42:43.410] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:42:45.530] - Don Amador
So let's- In a professional way. But again, it gets back to personalities. We all have our own personalities. And for whatever reason, sometimes they're not very good.
[00:43:00.840] - Big Rich Klein
So what I noticed for a while, and I'm assuming it's still true, if it was ever, is that the environmental groups will say, Okay, if we don't get our way in this, we're going to sue. They know that the land use or land management agencies know that they have the funding to sue, so they make... To make their decision based on part of their decision or their decision on that. Where in the off-road community or multiple-use community as we are, that we haven't threatened in at least in the same way, or at least maybe more recently we have. But the compromise, while yes, it helps us because once we have something, it's harder to take it away. We have compromised ourselves into a situation where maybe we've lost more than we've ever gained. I don't know if that's truly the case. Do you think there's organizations out there that do carry the stick and say, Okay, we're going to sue? Do you think that's- Well, I mean.
[00:44:30.320] - Don Amador
That was one of the things I was proudest of of working at Blue Ribbon starting in the mid 90s is, we started, what I think today still is the most effective and successful federal legal program that Offroad has ever seen. We challenged Paul Tuck. Paul Tuck was our attorney at the time. We started the legal program in '94, '95, and we beat the Clinton Robus initiative back. At O-Turk, we were involved in a number of the Utah battles, including Grand State, Staircase, Excalani, and the number of lawsuits here in California where we had success in the ninth Circuit Court of appeal stopping tank trapping on roads, and pretty much stopped all of that stuff. We had a number of success in that at least in Region 5, and a number of successes in other places. I don't know what Blue Ribbon is doing these days, but I know that we had a very successful, and I called it an effective legal program. Paul TERC was very good at analyzing our cases, and all those are Administrative Procedure Act cases, where really an agency to open an area, but they have to review their process and go back and redo the NEPA process, which costs them money.
[00:46:08.780] - Don Amador
Like you brought up, that's one of the things that some of the environmental conservation groups have been successful at, is settle and sue. So they sue and then settle on a technicality and get a settlement. And so that still happens. But like I said earlier, I don't see that. Sure, we have battles, like I said before, but we don't see the attacks that we saw back in the '90s today. And I think some of that is due to the pushback that myself and and TERC and others were involved with back in the 90s and early 2000s.
[00:46:50.030] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. So let's talk about quiet warrior racing. What's that about?
[00:46:59.560] - Don Amador
So I've always been a worked as a contractor for Blue Ribbon. And I wanted to start my own company for doing training side by side and others and in and being able to tell my own story from my perspective on OHB advocacy, education, trail maintenance, travel management, etc. And so that's my contracting business. And I really enjoy being involved from that perspective. And yeah, I actually got the name from, in the early days, you remember the Sound Law, the loud bikes we had in the 1998, starting with the Yamaha YZ 400, and being part of the effort to get motorcycles, particularly at that point in time, quieter. I was part of that Sound Stakeholder Committee in California in 2003. We had some industry, conservation, and other stakeholders there. And we came up with the 96-decibel sound law that was passed in 2003, signed in the law. And just at a motorcycle event a few weeks ago on the Mendicino, talking with some of the law enforcement guys I know about how quiet it is now at these campgrounds. And you remember back in the day in the '90s, etc, before we had aggressive sound laws that you'd hear a guy start up his motorcycle and hear him half a mile away in the campground.
[00:48:48.650] - Don Amador
And today, for the most part, you don't really run into that in most federal riding areas, at least in California. And so, again, if that was one thing I'm proud of being involved with is that is helping get that excessive sound dealt with. As you know, a lot of those early environmental lawsuits were based on excessive noise from OHVs. Because of those efforts in the 2000s to address that, any environmental lawsuits you see now normally don't have a sound component. Certainly, we have dust issues. There's other issues that are raised, real or imagined, but not really dealing with a lot of sound, even though sound is an issue at Oregon Dunes and they are working on that. But having sound compliant OHV is one of the best ways to keep people with the areas open.
[00:49:48.110] - Big Rich Klein
Right, because that was one of the biggest complaints.
[00:49:51.120] - Don Amador
Yep.
[00:49:52.220] - Big Rich Klein
So then how about Landuse and Off Road Cafe?
[00:49:57.240] - Don Amador
Okay, that was a blog I started. And I haven't really kept it going that much because I just really gotten so busy with other stuff, including being involved with a lot of the Oceano, Dune issues and meetings, trying to support and those guys. I've been going to those Oceano meetings since 2012, and then also trying to get the competition bikes registered and stuff here in California. We're starting with the 2022 Model Years. The Red Sticker program ended, and just got so busy, I haven't been able to keep up on the cafe. But that was going to be a conversation center. But I got too big, so I couldn't keep it going.
[00:50:52.780] - Big Rich Klein
Understood. Blogging like that or that information portal is time consuming.
[00:51:05.940] - Don Amador
Yes.
[00:51:07.150] - Big Rich Klein
And it's almost hard to do that by yourself. You almost need like almost a committee or a group to work on something like that. At least that's what I see. Having even this podcast, the amount of effort that I put into, or my wife and I put into this, with getting the guests lined out and then doing the research and then doing the editing and then the post-production and all the other stuff that goes on with it. And a blog is basically the same thing. And then special-.
[00:51:45.020] - Don Amador
Yeah, takes time to create content and everything. And then, like I said, when you get bogged down with, we've had a lot of issues and certainly COVID, that didn't help at all. And so, yeah, it takes time. You've got to prioritize. And that's what I've tried to do. Okay.
[00:52:05.400] - Big Rich Klein
And as one of the newer board members for the Board of directors of the Off Road Motor Sports Hall of Fame, I want to say congratulations on your being an inductee in 2016. And what was that like that night of the gala for you?
[00:52:26.440] - Don Amador
Well, that was just so awesome and really one of the highlights of my life. And to have, first of all, to be selected for that, a lot of Del, and Ed Waldheim, and a lot of others are there at the Hall of Fame and Off Road racing icons. To be selected to be part of that family was just very humbling. Then to have Dave Pickett, who at that time was of AMA district 36, give his introduction speech. And just to be there was really a super highlight of my life. And I think about it every day, and not every day, but I think about it quite a bit, and very honored to have been selected there. Yeah, super, super neat.
[00:53:25.140] - Big Rich Klein
Have you been able to get out to any of the other inductions since then? Gallis?
[00:53:29.880] - Don Amador
No, I have a good back. I did participate, I think it was in 2011 or '12 when Clark Collins was inducted into the Hall of Fame. He wasn't able to make it, so I went and participated there, gave his intro speech. I haven't been back, but I'd like to. It's on my list to do. I got some doggone busy that just in the fall season is really busy for off road up here in Northern California and stuff. So getting back into that. But I would like to get back and look forward to doing that.
[00:54:06.580] - Big Rich Klein
Well, good. I'll put you on my list of people to call and remind.
[00:54:10.410] - Don Amador
There we go.
[00:54:13.570] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about that we maybe haven't hit?
[00:54:23.570] - Don Amador
I guess I would just say that, and this is getting back to local writing areas, that at the end of the day, sure, we have issues going on in the country, in the world, and it's also awfully easy to get down and depressed. But here in California, we've got still some of the best writing in all the world, actually. We've got some great land managers out there, a lot of opportunities. And I guess maybe since it's Thanksgiving holiday, we just need to be, I think, thankful for what we still have, and then make a commitment to try to be part of the solution, whether it's joining a club or running for office, or being a board member, or serving on a resource advisory council. There's something that you can do to pay it forward. That's always a good thing to do.
[00:55:23.350] - Big Rich Klein
That's a great segue. Thank you. Thank you, Don, for spending the time today, this day after Thanksgiving, and when everybody's still trying to digest yesterday, literally. And thank you for spending the time and talking about your life.
[00:55:42.770] - Don Amador
Yeah, thanks a lot. Great time.
[00:55:45.300] - Big Rich Klein
All right. And we'll talk again. Thank you.
[00:55:48.090] - Don Amador
Okay, take care of you.
[00:55:49.940] - Big Rich Klein
Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you would think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gust of you can. Thank you.