Ivan Stewart on Episode 211. Such a privilege to interview the Ironman. We talk about all the dreams and adventures, and the timing, the all-important timing! Ivan was inducted in the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame in 2006. Ivan is why we say; legends live at ORMHOF.org. Be sure to tune in on your favorite podcast app.
2:19 – the race is almost secondary, the pre-running and the adventure is the real story
10:42 – an automobile is so cool because you can get in your car and set the radio station exactly like you want, and the heater, and…
19:29 – without GPS, you had to remember the course, and the better you were at the that, the more successful you were going to be
26:09 – I said, “Charlotte, the sun should never be rising on our right-hand side!”
35:55 – it wasn’t going to cost a whole lot more to build a desert truck, although it cost a lot to campaign them
40:09 – Sometimes you hit the timing just perfect!
45:21 – You got to have a dream to have a dream come true.
50:47 – I wanted to race off-road, I didn’t want to talk about it!
Special thanks to ORMHOF.org for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
Ivan Stewart on Episode 211. Such a privilege to interview the Ironman. We talk about all the dreams and adventures, and the timing, the all-important timing! Ivan was inducted in the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame in 2006. Ivan is why we say; legends live at ORMHOF.org. Be sure to tune in on your favorite podcast app.
2:19 – the race is almost secondary, the pre-running and the adventure is the real story
10:42 – an automobile is so cool because you can get in your car and set the radio station exactly like you want, and the heater, and…
19:29 – without GPS, you had to remember the course, and the better you were at the that, the more successful you were going to be
26:09 – I said, “Charlotte, the sun should never be rising on our right-hand side!”
35:55 – it wasn’t going to cost a whole lot more to build a desert truck, although it cost a lot to campaign them
40:09 – Sometimes you hit the timing just perfect!
45:21 – You got to have a dream to have a dream come true.
50:47 – I wanted to race off-road, I didn’t want to talk about it!
Special thanks to ORMHOF.org for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
[00:00:01.080] -
Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.
[00:00:46.130] -
This episode of Conversations with Big Rich is brought to you by the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame. The mission of the Hall of Fame is to educate and inspire present and future generations of the off-road community by celebrating the achievements the investments of those who came before. We invite you to help fulfill the mission of the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame. Join, partner, or donate today. Legends live at ormhof.org.
[00:01:15.530] - Big Rich Klein
On this episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I'll be talking with one of the biggest names in off-road, a true legend, a great storyteller, a 2006 Inductee into the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame, a 2020 Inductee into the Motorsports Hall of Fame, the man behind the moniker Ironman.
[00:01:34.610] - Big Rich Klein
Yes, Ivan Ironman-Stewart. Hello, Ivan. It's so great to have you on the show. I've been wanting to do this interview for a long time, and I'm really looking forward to this, and I'm glad we were able to make this work out. So thank you for coming on board.
[00:01:51.580] - Ivan Stewart
Thank you. I appreciate you thinking of me and looking forward to telling you some of my adventures that I've had over the years in off-road racing and off-road pre-running and everything that goes with it.
[00:02:02.710] - Big Rich Klein
Well, I think you're one of the supreme storytellers. I listened to you at a conference there at SEMA where you did a talk, and I was really... You held me captive. I have to say that you held me captive with your stories.
[00:02:19.100] - Ivan Stewart
Well, I think one of the reasons for that is off-road racing, desert racing anyway, is an event and it's a race. But For me, when I was racing, and even today, the pre-running and the adventure of racing down there and pre-running is the real story. I've always thought the race was almost secondary, because I couldn't wait to do the adventure of driving night and day through the wilds of Baja and all the things that you see and all of the obstacles that you have to overcome and how quick you can overcome those obstacles. If it be rain or snow or cattle or a forest fire, you name it, then you have to... The quicker you can maneuver that, the more better your odds are for winning the race. But it's always an adventure for me.
[00:03:15.100] - Big Rich Klein
Absolutely. I found that just prerunning myself, going down with different teams to help their cause. I look forward to getting down there again. It's been a couple of years since I've been down there, but I'm hoping this year, maybe I have the time.
[00:03:29.750] - Ivan Stewart
Well, I liked it so much that we bought a house down there. In fact, we're going down again, probably next week to our house just south of San Felipe, and then doing a drive down to Cabo San Lucas just to see a lot of the friends that we've made over the years and just to drive down to Cabo and come back again. To me, it's a real adventure.
[00:03:51.530] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Just another adventure in life. That's awesome. Yes, sir. Let's get started and let's find out where you were born and I was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
[00:04:05.510] - Ivan Stewart
My folks were from there, obviously. Then we moved from Oklahoma when I was only about five years old or thereabouts to San Diego, Then I was raised around San Diego, El Cajon, and La Mesa, and Alpine, and all those little communities around the San Diego area. If you know, you know that San Diego is Orange County is probably the heart of off-road racing. I raced go-karts as a kid, so I was familiar with racing when I became later in years when I got into off-road. But yeah, San Diego is where we grew up and I raised our kids in that area.
[00:04:49.940] - Big Rich Klein
In those early years, I know San Diego now is a pretty Metropolitan area as well as, of course, LA is the premier Metropolitan area. But what was it like? I would imagine that back in those early days, that it was much more of a rural feeling?
[00:05:14.260] - Ivan Stewart
Oh, yes, absolutely. Well, the off-road racing part of it, in the '60s, when I first started hearing about off-road, probably late '60s, '67, '68, somewhere through there, it was completely different. I mean, it was the real really an adventure off roading because people didn't have GPS's, and they didn't have good tires, they didn't have good shocks, they didn't have all this stuff that you can buy. You go down today and buy a vehicle right off the showroom floor and go ride, drive the whole Baha'1,000 with no problem. In those days in the '60s and '70s, you didn't have the good lights, and you didn't have the GPS and all these things. So it was even more of an adventure. I was intrigued by talking to my friends, for example, Lynn Chenethe, who was one of the first guys that raised the Baha'1,000. And the stories that he told, I just knew I had to find a way to do that.
[00:06:12.310] - Big Rich Klein
When you were in school, those school years, were you a great student, or were you one of those kids that looked out the window just waiting to get outside?
[00:06:28.350] - Ivan Stewart
No, for sure. I was one of those kids that was waiting for gym and gym class, the auto shop, and to get outside. I wasn't a very good student. It didn't come easy to be studying and everything that went with that. I just knew that I knew how I wanted to make a living, and it wasn't off-road racing. I just figured that I really didn't need a lot of the things that they were teaching me in school to do this occupation that I wanted. But no, I was definitely an outside kid You mentioned athletics, PE.
[00:07:04.190] - Big Rich Klein
Did you play sports?
[00:07:07.010] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, a little bit, not a whole lot. Probably football more than anything. Track and field, that was a pretty good high jumper and pretty good runner, but mainly football, a little baseball, but not a whole lot. I was more intrigued. I think what I really wanted out of life in my high school days was to grow up, get a job, and start a family. That I was... I never really think much about racing, other than I did race go-karts. When I was probably 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. My dad got me a gokart, and we raced. Ironically, we raced a lot in Mexico on the airport in Tecate. It's a great place to race. I did an endurance race in Encinada, on the streets of Encinada in the '50s, in about 1956. I was obviously getting more familiar with racing, not off road because off road hadn't even started yet. But the go-kart racing got me acquainted with how to race and what it took to race, and I wasn't intimidated by it. I was excited by it more than anything. I had some experience in those early days in racing, but not really even thinking about professionally or off-road racing, none of that.
[00:08:26.160] - Ivan Stewart
But it was more fun, I think, at that time.
[00:08:29.540] - Big Rich Klein
You You said auto shop, so you spent a lot of time in the shop classes and learning to work on cars yourself.
[00:08:36.720] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, auto shop, metal shop, anything that was affiliated with building and In fact, I'm still that same way as I enjoy getting things accomplished in the building and working on my house in Mexico and what. That got me started in that direction.
[00:08:55.710] - Big Rich Klein
What did your dad do as a profession?
[00:09:00.210] - Ivan Stewart
He worked at the US Grand Hotel in downtown San Diego as an engineer. I think it was a problem-solving job for him, and I'd love to go down there with him in the early days in the '50s and spend time walking around downtown San Diego. In those days, it was really a much safer place to be than it is in this day and age. I walked all over San Diego. I knew downtown San Diego pretty good by the time I was 12, 14 years old.
[00:09:29.630] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Then did you have a job early on, like through high school or right after high school? What was your first job?
[00:09:40.840] - Ivan Stewart
When I was 16 years old, I got my first job and bought my first car for $125 in a 1940 Ford. I wish I still had it. But I loved working on that thing and driving cars and Still, during that period, it wasn't nothing to do with off road, but I love driving. I like the freedom of driving and just the experience of going someplace new and all those things like most kids. But I think it's a little bit different today because I don't think the kids are quite as into driving as I was in those days when I was 15, 16 years old. But I loved it.
[00:10:24.840] - Big Rich Klein
I think the newest generation, especially those that are maybe 32 and under, as a majority, not saying all of them, of course, but as a majority, aren't interested in the same things that we were.
[00:10:42.400] - Ivan Stewart
No, the independence and just the thrill of... A friend of mine tells me that... He's told me this story a long time ago, and I believe it, and it's just crystal clear true. An automobile is so cool because if you think about it, you can get in your car and you can set that radio station to exactly what you want. You can set the heater just the way you want it. If you want to see mountains, you just drive up to the mountain and look at the windshield of your car and you see mountains and trees and all those beautiful things in the mountains. If you want to see the beach, you drive down to the beach and you see, looking out the window, you get to see the beach. Getting there is an adventure. I mean, if you think about it, an automobile is pretty cool way to get around and all the different things that you can If you like racing, you can go race your car, too. I thought that was a cool way to think about it.
[00:11:36.470] - Big Rich Klein
But I look at it as an automobile is the tool for destination or the adventure of getting to that destination. It's the process of getting there that's so exciting.
[00:11:55.330] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah. Then you take it to the next stage. If you're getting into off roading, now you get to go. I live in Flagstaff, Arizona now, and there's thousands of forest roads to explore up here. And you can do the same thing anywhere. You can do off-roading. Now, you get another dimension of driving. Reading the terrain and all the things that go with that that people don't think a lot about. But eventually, you'll learn to read the terrain and be aware of what's coming up even before you get there. That's all part of off-road racing and off-road driving. And then to take care of your vehicle, if it's a race car or if it's a SUV, you still got to take care of it.
[00:12:37.720] - Big Rich Klein
Right. No, I agree. I put on a race. We had a national finals for our dirt ride endurance racing, which is It was like a Feeder series for King of the Hammers. And we were doing this in Texas. And after the race was done, I asked my wife if she wanted to drive the race course. And so she said, Okay, yeah, let's do it. Well, We started up on this ledge, and then it dropped off this ledge, pretty good drop, and then down into this quarry floor, and it was solid rock floor. And the race cars had gone and kicked out all the loose stuff to the edges. She drives off the ledge, did great, turns and then hits the throttle and proceeded to hit, I think, every single rock out there. And about halfway across the quarry floor, I said, Okay, stop. She stopped and looked at me like, What's wrong? And I said, Well, first of all, we're just driving the race course. We don't have to race the race course. Secondly, you don't have to hit all the rocks. So I had to teach her how to read the race course or read the terrain and what was in front of you, not look at the farthest distance point that you can see and drive to that.
[00:13:57.510] - Big Rich Klein
Drive in front of you. You know No. Figure out what's in front of you and what's coming.
[00:14:04.150] - Ivan Stewart
You got to believe it. There's a lot that took me a long time to learn in off-road racing. Little things that I slowly picked up along the way that were real key to successfully navigating the course. It takes a while.
[00:14:21.140] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Let's talk about that very first race that you had. I think it was in 1973 and the Encinada 300. Am I correct?
[00:14:32.920] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, correct. You got it. There was a high school friend of mine that I had, a guy by the name of Bill Rinko. He started getting me interested in off-roading and off-road racing somewhere around the late '60s, maybe even in the '70s. Like I say, I talked to Lynn Chenethe about doing... He raced the Baja 1000. Lonnie Wood was the guy that used to own the Rough Country Shox here in San Diego, and he had raced. The more I talked to these guys, the more I was intrigued with it. Bill came to me one day and said, Ivan, I want to build a You see, off road race car. You want to help me with it? I said, Yeah, sure. What can I do? He just helped me assemble it and put it together, and then I'll let you ride with me. I signed up, so, Yeah, this would be Let's go for it. I did a couple of races with him riding as a co- driver, and I really hated it. I actually hated the riding because I thought I could do a better job and I could read the train maybe a little quicker than he could.
[00:15:44.390] - Ivan Stewart
I got on him one time because I told him, Bill, the objective is... I get tired of changing tires. I said, Bill, the objective is to miss these rocks. Because I think a lot of people focus on the rocks and then they aim for the rock, and that's I don't know why they do that, but I've heard that the people will just be focused on something and ended up hitting it. But anyway, so we were going to do this in Sonata. I think it was called the in Sonata 300 or Baha 300. I think Baha 300. It was a 300-mile race in a big loop around south of in Sonata, down by San Tomas, where it actually started. Anyway, a couple of days before the race, he calls me, he says, I've been at the English, he says, I I just got back from the hospital and I broke my leg. I'm in a cast. We got the race coming up on Saturday. He said, you're going to have to drive and I'll get Earl Stahl to ride with you. I mean, that was fantastic. I mean, that was my golden opportunity to do something in off-road racing and drive because I had three boys and mortgage payments and cars that take care of that.
[00:16:51.940] - Ivan Stewart
I couldn't afford a race car at all. Anyway, we started the race and I didn't have any experience in racing other than I had a burning desire to do it. Within the first probably two or three miles, I slid off the road, into a ditch, and I were laying on this road up on the side. I ended up running back to get some on the course, from the race car, from the race car back to some guys that were pitting, talked them into coming down and getting me back on the road again. So now we're running last. We're the last car on the road. So we get the car back, get going again. We started catching people, but about another few miles down the road, the throttle linkage broke. So he ended up the cable would go from your foot to the carburator. That broke. So I decided I could pull that cable out real quick, wrap it around a cresset wrench, and I could drive with one hand operating the throttle, the right-hand, and I could steer with my left hand, and I could work the break and the clutch with my feet, obviously.
[00:17:55.050] - Ivan Stewart
But the throttle with my right foot wouldn't work. I had to use my hand. And then the URL could shift for me because this was a Volkswagen-powered buggy, right? I couldn't shift because I'd have to drop the Crescent wrench, and then I couldn't do it. So he shifted for me, and we were all screwed up. But we got better and better at it. Like I said, it's a 300-mile race, so we had quite a bit of time to catch people. Pretty soon, we're starting to catch cars and pass cars. To make a long story short, we ended up winning that race. It was my first race I ever drove, and I wanted it. Now, I was really addicted to this. Then the next race we had, I don't remember what it was, Bill was still in the cast. He said, You go ahead and drive. You're doing good. You want a race? Then the next time, I think we finished second. I forget what it was. That's how I got my introduction to driving off road. I got addicted not only to driving, but I got addicted to winning. That was the real thrill. I love the adventure of it.
[00:18:59.260] - Ivan Stewart
That was One of my first take off on winning and racing was the Insanata 300 in San Tomás, Baja, California.
[00:19:09.820] - Big Rich Klein
What were the markings like back then? We talked about not having GPS back in those days and all the technology that we have nowadays. What was it like trying to chase those race courses without without GPS?
[00:19:29.820] - Ivan Stewart
Well, it was a big deal because if you could afford to, if you had the time and the money to pre-run, sometimes they'd mark the courses. I'm talking about real early 1970 now. They would mark the courses so you might go down the day before and do a pre-run and try and remember the course. Then once in a while, they'd give you some down arrows. A down arrow would be a danger ahead. But what would happen a lot of times is the cattle would knock the trees over where the ribbon was, or the little girls, the little local Mexican girls down there would take the ribbons and put them in their hair. When you got the green flag, you never knew exactly where the course was going to be, especially if you didn't get a chance to pre-run. Or if you pre-run, now you had to remember the course. Maybe you and your co-driving could pre-run together. But it was a real adventure just getting around the course until you had made a couple of laps, and then you You could remember pretty much the danger spots and where the intersections were. But the better you were doing that, the more successful you were going to be, because if you could read the terrain, as I mentioned earlier, they realized that there was a ditch coming up or how sharp a corner was just by the burm on the outside of the corner would tell you how sharp the corner was.
[00:20:53.060] - Ivan Stewart
There were just a lot of things that you had to learn, but it was, like I say, without GPS and all the good headlights and technology, it was a real adventure to get around 300 miles down there.
[00:21:05.490] - Big Rich Klein
What for you is the biggest attraction of racing in Baja?
[00:21:13.410] - Ivan Stewart
Just the adventure. Because I have never... When I say that, I'm saying even a pre-run, you've been down there pre-run. Typically, you cannot go down there and do a pre-run or certainly not a race without something's going to happen to you. You're going to have a flat tire, you're going to slide off the road. Like you say, your wife goes down the hill, goes too fast, scares the heck out of you, and you're trying to teach her how to drive. Everything about it is just there's something going to happen to you. You may not happen to you, but you're going to come across somebody that's slid off the road. You need to get them back on the road. Their car broke down. You need to tow them to a... Because you have to take care of each other. You just can't... Even in a pre-run or especially a race, if somebody's turned over You got to help them make sure they're not hurt anyway, if nothing else. I mean, you learn to take care of each other, and there's always something that's going to happen. I've never been down there ever that something, that some crazy thing happens to me in Bada.
[00:22:16.770] - Ivan Stewart
Not necessarily a bad thing, but an adventure. How do I get out of this? How do I get back on the road? How do I get out of this ticket? There's a multiple. You could write a about things that have happened to people just going to Mexico, much less not going off road.
[00:22:36.460] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. One time, one of the lessons that I was taught early on, and it was by Pistle Pete Soren, because I helped his team, was that if you get stopped or if you get the police to turn the lights on you before you get to the Highway One toll booth, you just keep driving until you get to that toll booth.
[00:23:01.210] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah.
[00:23:01.770] - Big Rich Klein
And especially if it's the local police. And the first time I came in there without being in the caravan, that happened. I drove quite a ways, a few miles, until I got to that toll Plaza and the guy shut his lights off and turned around and went back into Tijuana. I learned a valuable lesson that day.
[00:23:24.600] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, there's a multitude of stories that I've heard and a lot that I've I've had several times where I've been, luckily, I've been recognizable where I've been pulled over by the police and only because they wanted to get an autograph.
[00:23:43.530] - Big Rich Klein
Or stickers, right?
[00:23:46.050] - Ivan Stewart
There's great stories from not only myself, but my friends that have got tripped up with the local police. But just if you just stop by a cop and the red light comes on, the first objective is to, How am I to get out of this? That's the first thing. At least that's on my mind. It's the same thing with driving. You're driving in an off-road race and it starts to rain like crazy. So how slick can you be to get on down the road better than your competitor? Or if it snows, or if the wind blows, or you get in the silt, it's all the same. It's how quickly you can get out of this situation, to continue on down the road.
[00:24:25.810] - Big Rich Klein
So you told a story at SEMA one time, when I listened to you speak, I think you were like a keynote speaker. It was at night, no GPS, and you thought you pretty much knew where you were going, but you saw headlights way out in front of you, and they were coming at you, and you thought, boy, that guy's lost. Do you remember that story?
[00:25:00.340] - Ivan Stewart
Keep going a little bit. Okay.
[00:25:03.310] - Big Rich Klein
And so I'm trying to think about what time this when did this happen?
[00:25:07.760] - Ivan Stewart
But go ahead. I'll get it.
[00:25:08.880] - Big Rich Klein
So you told the story about how you both came toward each other, and it took a while because you It's night and you're out in the wilds of Baja, and the lights would disappear, and then they'd come back. And finally, you guys met up, and I think it may have been... Anyway, it may have been Walker Evans. And you came up and saw each other, and you both went like, Well, you're going the wrong way. No, you're going the wrong way. I guess you guys got it figured out, but The way you told the story, I was just like, I was entranced. I mean, it was great.
[00:25:50.290] - Ivan Stewart
I do remember this. I haven't told that story in a long time, but that was a night time race. You've been down there at night. I mean, if you're in Mexico, there's not too many lights. If there's no moon, it gets dark. I mean, it really gets dark.
[00:26:08.300] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:26:09.160] - Ivan Stewart
So this race, it wasn't walking. I think it was, I don't remember who it was. But yeah, in the distance, you see somebody coming towards you, and he must be on the same road as you because there's no other roads out there. It's a dirt, one-lane dirt road, and he's a mile away from you, but you can see his headlights. I can see his headlights. When we finally got to each other, you have to realize that one of you are screwed up. You're hoping he is, but it could be the other way around. Did I tell you the story? I got a good story that I've told a lot. When I was racing with Charlotte Corral and Coco Corral in their Ford truck, Charlotte and I were going to do the Baha 1,000 all the way to La Paz together. Then she was going to ride with me and we were going to make it all go all the way to La Paz. She loved to ride. Her husband, he chased and paid the bills and all that. But anyway, we had had a lot of problems. I mean, early on, the distributor gear broke and then we had a flat and it went on and on.
[00:27:12.840] - Ivan Stewart
We were way, way, way behind on the course. They got down to below San Ignacio, and I knew that we were getting screwed up. We were turned around or something didn't feel right. You know that when you do the Baja 1,000, it goes to La Paz It goes from the Sonata to La Paz, which is pretty much south, southeast, but you're going south. You're definitely not going north, right? So the sun starts to come up, and I couldn't figure out. I'm trying to analyze in my head, why is the sun rising on my right-hand side. When it finally, I slowed down and Charlotte said, What are you doing? Why are you stopping? I said, Charlotte, the sun should never be rising on our right-hand side if we're heading south. So I got actually completely 180 degrees turned around and going the wrong way. I don't know how long I was going the wrong way, but anyway, that's how easy, that's how screwed up you can get in Mexico.
[00:28:10.490] - Big Rich Klein
Right. And luckily now everybody runs GPS, but those early days, a thousand mile race could be 1400 for you.
[00:28:22.210] - Ivan Stewart
Yes. It was always an adventure.
[00:28:26.830] - Big Rich Klein
So you won Driver of the year Four times. And they were in a row, weren't they?
[00:28:34.290] - Ivan Stewart
I don't remember. Somebody asked me the other day how many times I went on the mountain. I said, I think three. He said, No, you're like five or six. I don't remember.
[00:28:44.490] - Big Rich Klein
Well, that's a good thing. You have so many you don't remember.
[00:28:48.440] - Ivan Stewart
It's a nice thing, yes. But driver of the year, I think probably in class eight, class 2. I don't remember. I know it probably with Toyota also. Those Toyota didn't come until 1984. But yeah, I'm sure you're right. If you saw it somewhere, I'm sure that's right.
[00:29:09.610] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. And then in 1976, you were voting in as Man of the Year? Yes. And I'm not sure what that... Was that because of things that you had done, like Driver of the Year, wins, and all that?
[00:29:27.170] - Ivan Stewart
Yes.
[00:29:27.680] - Big Rich Klein
And Man of the Year goes beyond Yes.
[00:29:31.230] - Ivan Stewart
I think it was probably because I was involved in a lot of things. I donated a lot of time to doing some talks and things that going to the hospital or whatever it might be they asked me to do. Because I was so enthused with what I was able to do. At that time, I was still working as an ironworker, but I did have an opportunity to race, off-road race, and that's what I really wanted to do. I was so proud to just be doing that that I was volunteering for everything. I can do that. I can do this. I can do that. I can do a talk for somebody or whatever it was. I think that's probably the main reason.
[00:30:12.070] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Then your your nickname, Ironman.
[00:30:18.050] - Ivan Stewart
That came from... That was in the '70s. Actually, it had to have been around 1975, somewhere through there when I was driving a single-seaters. I I started in two-seaters, and then I wanted to move up with... The single-seat cars were typically winning overall, and they were the one that were getting a lot of recognition, and I wanted to get into a single-seater. So Valvoline put up an award to anybody that could race the Baja 500 or the Baja 1,000 and win. They would win $500 from Valvoline, and then they would also have this big trophy that made them the official Ironman of off-road racing. I was the first to win one of those trophies, and the $500, and the second, and the third. So then Mickey Thompson and some of the journalists started tagging me the Ironman of off-road racing. Although other people over the years have also won those trophies, but I was the first to do it, got the first three.
[00:31:18.870] - Big Rich Klein
I understand that you kept yourself in really good shape, that you worked out so that you could have that endurance. Is that correct?
[00:31:27.440] - Ivan Stewart
It is correct. But in the '70s, Because before I got driving for Toyota in 1984, '83, '84, I was in construction. I was an ironworker, and I worked a lot in construction, and I was in good shape without having to go to the gym. Then later on, I had a trainer that I worked with a couple of different guys that I worked with that kept me in pretty good shape. That really paid off. I think that really paid off in the long run.
[00:31:57.780] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I would imagine, especially when you're doing that Ironman style by yourself.
[00:32:03.830] - Ivan Stewart
Yes. But there was also what happens, too, Rich, is that you learn, and I'm sure you know, too, you learn to drive off road without using a lot of energy. If you can drive without really wearing yourself out, that's another secret. I rode with my son, Brian, one time when he was driving for Walker, when he first started driving class 8, Barstow doing some testing. Right off the bat, I told him within the first while, I said, Brian, stop for a second. I said, You're working way too hard at it. He was. He was just had a death grip on the steering wheel, and he was He's putting way too much energy into it. Tried to help him just relax and feel the car, and he won't get so tired. There was a lot of secrets and things that I learned along the way. As I got into into my '50s, and I could still be pretty competitive off road. Right.
[00:33:07.600] - Big Rich Klein
How did that early transition How did that go from running basically a privateer to being Toyota?
[00:33:23.920] - Ivan Stewart
Well, that was pretty spectacular because we were one of the very first to... It all started with conversation, I think, in 1983 when Cal Wells called me. He had been building some of my Class 8 full-size truck. Class 8 was a full-size. In those days, it was a Ford truck that I had. Then I drove for Joe McPherson in a Chevrolet truck. He called me in one day and said, I'm putting a bid in. There's a proposal into Toyota to race this Mickey Thompson series. He explained it to me, Mickey Thompson is going to come and put these races on inside stadiums. I want to build a mini truck. As soon as he said mini truck, I had already been driving big trucks, Ford, Chevroletes, and winning races and build a reputation that I could drive those trucks. Now when he said mini truck, I said, Well, what? I'm thinking to myself, Well, that doesn't sound very attractive to me. I said, Well, what motor are we going to have? He said, Well, we got little four-cylinder motors. I said, Cal, I really don't have an interest in doing that. That's not something I really want to do.
[00:34:32.980] - Ivan Stewart
But knowing Cal Wells, he gave me all these figures about, Well, you know, horsepower to weight ratio, and we're going to do this, and we'll build you something special, and Toyota is going to get really involved. When that happened, I didn't really think it would be near as big as it was when he said, Oh, by the way, we have to go to a press conference down in Torrance at Toyota's corporate offices. But when I went into their corporate offices, I mean, I don't know if you ever been to their place. No. They were in Torrance when they were in Torrance. A beautiful, beautiful place. All these journalists showed up, and Steve Millen and I were going to be team mates and two trucks. It was a huge deal. I realized that maybe that was probably a good decision. With hindsight, that was the best off-road racing decision that I've ever made. Yeah, that was the start of something huge. We wasn't doing desert racing at that time. It was just stadium racing. In fact, for the first year, I drove a Ford in desert racing over Toyota in stadium racing. Then I won the Championship in the stadium racing, and that's when Toyota is a non.
[00:35:45.700] - Ivan Stewart
Once you drive on a Ford, we'll build you a desert racing truck.
[00:35:50.860] - Big Rich Klein
Okay, there you go. From stadium then to desert with Toyota.
[00:35:55.210] - Ivan Stewart
Yes, because if you think about it, Cal and Well has already had a big shop to build the stadium trucks and maintain those trucks. You've got the people there and the engineers and everything. It really wasn't going to cost a whole lot more to build a desert truck, although it cost a lot of money to campaign them. But anyway, that was how that all started.
[00:36:15.860] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. And those early years of... I'd equate it to like the rodeo cowboys, the stadium trucks. Yes. You're going into a town or a city And racing in a stadium. I know Barbara Rainey talks about working for Mickey back in those days, and was her and another lady would go in a couple of weeks ahead of time with a couple of rolls, a quarter, and a phone book, and then set up so that the races could even happen. And it just amazes me the stories that she tells, because there was no Internet. There was not the convenience of being able to find anybody anywhere like it is nowadays. Days. And I would imagine for you drivers going into a situation like that where it's all about the spectator, where Mexico, it's more about racing the terrain. The spectators are just going to show up. But there, the stadium, it's all about the spectators. It's like a baseball game or a football game. You're doing it for the spectators.
[00:37:22.080] - Ivan Stewart
That's right. That's exactly what it was. And Mickey Thompson was a genius in a lot of things. I mean, he would When we did Riverside for the first time, I remember that the first race that we did there, there wasn't 30 people in the stands. But he got up in the back of the pickup during the driver's meeting. He said, You guys, you may not believe me, but I'm going to tell you one of these days you're going to see those stands filled up. We all looked at each other like, Okay, Mickey, we're here to race. But then he says, And then Riverside got to be huge. In fact, we put more people in the stands Riverside, probably five or six years later, than Nascar put in there. If he told you he was going to do it, he was going to do it. He said, We're going to take our trucks and buggies, and we're going to race the LA Coliseum, where he'd jump out of the Paris tile and jump into the Paris tile, and it's going to be spectacular. But he would do it. He took us to Dallas. He took us all over Pontiac, Michigan, all over the place, doing this stadium racing.
[00:38:29.460] - Ivan Stewart
It was It was fantastic. I wouldn't miss that part of my life for anything.
[00:38:34.390] - Big Rich Klein
What was that like, dropping down at the Coliseum from the top up there and dropping down into the stadium? I would imagine that was just out of this world. I don't even know if I have the words for it.
[00:38:54.390] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, well, just racing where the history of the LA Coliseum had was just fantastic Then to go through it, but I'll tell you, a lot of people ask me the same question, but going up the grandstand or up the grandstand and jumping through the arches was harder than coming out because it was a narrower, if you look at it sometimes, to go through, it was narrower. At that archway where we went through. You had to really get lined up. If somebody bumped you or something going up the hill before you jumped through the parastile, you're going to hit one of those concrete barriers. But whenever you came back down and made the left to come jump out, it was pretty simple because you weren't going as fast, for one. You just jumped. All you had to really worry about is if you didn't jump so far, your truck wasn't handling where you might do in the endo. I mean, that was the biggest thing you had to worry about. Or you didn't want to jump so far that you landed flat on the racetrack down. You really wanted to land on the downhill part. But no, it was harder going up and jump through the Paris Tyler coming out.
[00:39:59.780] - Ivan Stewart
I It was a thrill. Always a thrill.
[00:40:02.800] - Big Rich Klein
When did the video game that's so famous come about?
[00:40:09.900] - Ivan Stewart
Well, that was about in 1985. That was the worldwide. I still stay in touch with a good personal friend of mine, the guy that John Rowe, who owned the company at the time. He was part owner of the company that manufactured that arcade game. It's Started in about 1983 or 1984. I had just done a stadium race in San Diego, and I'd won that night. The next day or the next week, I was at a little sushi bar in Oklahoma, California. I heard these guys, young guys down to the right of me, talking about how excited they were about going to the off-road race and the stadium race and jumping in the crashes and everything that came with it. Then I heard them talking about this that they were working on. I overheard them and I went over and I introduced myself. They couldn't believe that Ivan Stewart was in the same sushi bar. Sometimes you hit the timing just perfect, Rich. This was a perfect timing. Anyway, I introduced myself as Ivan Stuart and they couldn't believe it. They took my hand and I said, I heard you guys talking about this arcade game.
[00:41:21.860] - Ivan Stewart
Tell me more about it. Anyway, they went into detail what they wanted to do. I said, Well, I'll tell you what I'd like you to do is introduce me. Can you set up a meeting? I'd like you to introduce me to your boss, the guy that's in charge of doing this game, because maybe I think I can probably help you with some information on how the truck should jump and turn and handle. I just knew that I wanted to be a part of that. I didn't know if it was I didn't realize it was ever going to be as big as it was. I went over and met John Ro. We hit it off, worked up a contract, signed a contract. They could use my name. I said, Well, look at... You can use my name, but I really want you to use the picture of my truck, and I'll be responsible for getting an okay to use all the sponsors that we had. We had some pretty good sponsors. They had, obviously, Toyota. I don't remember the rest of them right now. Anyway, got that ball rolling, and I went over and made four, five, six, eight, maybe 10 different trips to their facility and help them for whatever I could with programming, because these were computer programmers.
[00:42:24.820] - Ivan Stewart
This was all in the early days of computers and stuff. This was all new. I didn't know I don't know anything about it, but these young kids that I was working with, I would help them with on how the truck should be handling, how it should look, and how it should jump, and this and that. Then lo and behold, before long, they came out and It became number one, like I say, in 1986. It was a great part of my life. Like I say, I still get friends with John Rohe. I got one in my garage that I keep here just the fun of playing it once in a while.
[00:43:02.200] - Big Rich Klein
Wow, that's awesome. I know that every once in a while somebody will post up that there's one on marketplace or somewhere for sale, and they never last long when somebody puts one up for sale.
[00:43:14.160] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, they're pretty rare to come by right now. It's hard to find them.
[00:43:20.420] - Big Rich Klein
Then with all your racing as a racer, you end up becoming a promoter And you come out with the Pro Truck series or Pro Truck class. And that was what I would call a driver's class, because everything was You had to use certain engines and certain chassis and certain tires, correct?
[00:43:49.530] - Ivan Stewart
Correct. They were all the same chassis, all the same suspension components. The only difference was that if you ran a Toyota body, then you run a Toyota motor. The motor had and Wretz had to match Ford body, Ford motor. But no, there was really competitive. It was something that this is where you make mistakes in life once in a while. I've made a bunch of them. But I figured that the trophy trucks were getting so expensive, hard to... You had to have engineers to help you build them, where it was going to be real popular to make just a turnkey class. It was a I'm in the partners class, and I didn't want to be a promoter. I wanted to be just the sanctioning body. If you were promoting a race, I just wanted to bring my trucks to you, and I'll be the sanctioning body, and you promote the race. It worked great. It was a great time. It went all over the place, ran them up at Laguna Seca on part asphalt, part dirt. We went to Guam. Larry Raglin drove one of them in the Paris decart. It was just great because I could take them anywhere I wanted to.
[00:45:00.210] - Ivan Stewart
So that was really a fun time. I mean, I learned a lot. I wouldn't do it again, but it was fun to me. Not so much fun for my wife, but I had a great time. I had a great time doing it. She had to pay the bills.
[00:45:13.980] - Big Rich Klein
She was the one That's what I wrote the checks. I know how that goes. I'm the dreamer in the family.
[00:45:21.240] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, all right. Well, you got to have a dream. You got to have a dream come true. You got to have a dream, right? Right.
[00:45:26.920] - Big Rich Klein
So true. That was class six It's a exit score, correct?
[00:45:32.150] - Ivan Stewart
Well, it was just a pro truck class.
[00:45:33.780] - Big Rich Klein
Pro truck class, okay.
[00:45:35.310] - Ivan Stewart
That's what I wanted. I just wanted to promote the pro-truck series. Actually, it was a series where I could go to any promoter if they wanted to be basically wanted 10 or 12, 15 trucks. Most any promoter would say, Yeah, heck yeah, bring in 15 trucks. They get the interest rate. You understand all that, how that works. But I just like that. I took it to Pikes Peak because I still love the fact that an off-road race car can race off-road very successfully, but they can race on-road. But you can't take a road-racing truck and race it in a road-racing car and race it in Mexico.
[00:46:13.830] - Big Rich Klein
Correct. Very true.
[00:46:15.850] - Ivan Stewart
That's why I'm so proud of off... One of the reasons I'm so proud of off-road racing.
[00:46:22.300] - Big Rich Klein
I agree. And the technology nowadays, it's accelerating so fast with And it's interesting because being a rock crawling promoter and into rock racing, what we call rock racing, so off road racing, but with the extra the extra thrill of throwing in huge boulders, rock formations and trails, that the technology, we stole technology from off road racing and just inverted it, took it from the high speed stuff and made it so it worked going slow. Sure. Going the coilovers and link suspensions and all that stuff. And then when the rock racing happened, the guys realized, well, independent suspension, you can go faster, smoother. Now, how do we make it survive in the rocks? That's right. And how do you make it survive?
[00:47:21.870] - Ivan Stewart
Always a challenge.
[00:47:23.590] - Big Rich Klein
Right. And now, I remember that, except for the factory, like the Blazers and the Broncos, in the Dodges, there wasn't a lot of four-wheel drive, go fast desert rigs. I think the one I always remember is the land shark.
[00:47:43.260] - Ivan Stewart
Which one?
[00:47:44.330] - Big Rich Klein
The land shark park, the Herbst truckie.
[00:47:47.300] - Ivan Stewart
Oh, yeah. Right.
[00:47:48.730] - Big Rich Klein
But then you get the the KOH guys trying to create that straight axel front-end to go faster and and faster, and then they start playing with IFS. And now it's IFS and IRS, so four-wheel independent. And now Mason has taken that and perfected it for the trophy trucks. That's right. Nobody would throw a four-wheel drive trophy truck out there because they couldn't make them last. That's right. And now, look what's happening. So it's the marriage of all of it and that technology going in a big circle.
[00:48:31.730] - Ivan Stewart
Well, I think probably 10 or 15 years ago, way before four-wheel drive trophy trucks were available, I think a lot of people knew, including myself. And the reason we knew is because of the car, the to carry the car, you knew those cars were four-wheel drive, and they were going to be the quickest. If you could develop an off-road truck, a trophy truck, with any pin at front and rear, four-wheel drive, you were going to win races, but it cost a fortune, a tremendous amount of money to develop it, just to go test and break things and test and build things. But once you got it done, and that's where they're at right now, you just buy a Mason truck, but you've got really a piece that will really go the distance for one, and it's really fast. It all comes around. It just takes time.
[00:49:25.270] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Let's talk about some of the other things that you were involved with beyond the racing, like the Special Olympics and Make-a-Wish.
[00:49:36.970] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, over the years, especially when I was driving for Toyota, because I wasn't working anymore. I was just racing and doing basically whatever they asked me to do. So there was a lot of opportunities to do things with the Make A Wish Foundation and all those different things that you can do, public speaking, a lot that over the years. Mickey Thompson is the one that really, I think, that really helped me out in the early days when he took me aside and said, Ivan, you know that Tori Under is going to do this, do my series. It's Mickey Simplesman series, this Mickey Thompson series. You're going to be asked to do a lot of public speaking, probably things that you don't want to do, interviews and this type of thing. So he said, You need to go down and do a Dale Carnegie class. I did. It was probably one of the best things I did for my racing career anyway, was learn how to get in front of the camera and be relaxed with it and interviews like this one that we're doing and public speaking and all. Because I was always terrified of that.
[00:50:47.300] - Ivan Stewart
I wanted to race off road. I didn't want to talk about it. Anyway, he really helped me in the early days. He helped me in a lot of ways, actually. But no, it was always fun to do. It was always a challenge. I committed to do one coming up in Sacramento for the Land Cruiser Club of America or whatever it is, something like that, to go up and talk about off-road racing and what have you and some of the things that I've done. But I do it because one of the things I learned is feel the fear and do it anyway. I've done that with my life is, So there's little fears involved. Go do it anyway. So I committed to do it.
[00:51:30.130] - Big Rich Klein
And working with the Special Olympics, that's pretty touching, that and make a wish.
[00:51:38.390] - Ivan Stewart
They're all rewarding in different ways. They're all fun to do. They're certainly worthwhile for your time. And if people think that you're a star, an athlete, or a celebrity, and they want your autograph, that's just all part of the business. And I'm overwhelmed by it once in a while and humbled by it, but it's still fun.
[00:52:03.310] - Big Rich Klein
Then you work with the School for the Death in Encinada?
[00:52:09.540] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah. For 10 years, my wife and I, Linda, put together a motorcycle ride. We ran across this little deaf school just outside of Encinada between Ticate and Encinada called Rancho Chortimuto. I got to know the people that ran this little deaf school school because they off road raced and they knew me, obviously, and invited me to come down. My wife and I went down and fell in love with the place and started putting together a ride, a motorcycle ride, like a Harley ride or a street bike ride. It started in my shop, it went down to the Rancho, this little school, and they put on a play for us and showed us some sign language. Everybody just fell in love with the place. The little kids that were super special special. Then we spent the night. They did a presentation for us, and then we spent the night in them, and then we rode the motorcycles back. We did that for 10, 11 years. I think we, I forget the number, but way over $100,000 that we had donated to this little school.
[00:53:19.200] - Big Rich Klein
Very good.
[00:53:21.600] - Ivan Stewart
Really fun.
[00:53:22.830] - Big Rich Klein
So one of the questions that I have is, and I guess it's a multiple-part question, but it's during your years of racing, there was probably situations or times of it, a season where there was somebody that you had to race against that you just knew you wanted to beat them more than you wanted to beat anybody else that's on the race course. Was there somebody like that? And if so, what was their name?
[00:53:52.350] - Ivan Stewart
Oh, yeah. Well, certainly would be Parnilly Jones. I had Parnilly Jones on a pedestal, sure. Way before off-road racing started. Because he could do Pikes Peak, and he could do road racing, he could do Indianapolis, he could do midgets, he could do sprint cars and win. He was my hero. Then when he came to do the Baja 1,000, and I think he probably... His first race was about 1967 thereabout. Then he ended up winning that. Then he won the Baja 500. I thought, God, I just love to ride with him someday. I did get a chance to ride with Parnelly. He went on my trip with me, a walker and him went on my Rancho Sortimuto death school ride. I went snowmobile riding with him. He got to become really a good friend. To beat him would really be at the high point of my life. But it was pretty hard because he was ahead of me, and I didn't get a chance to race against him so much. Walker Evans was probably the one that I really wanted to beat, that we raced together in stadium racing and also in desert racing. Probably Walker, mainly, he was always tough.
[00:55:15.220] - Ivan Stewart
But there's a whole bunch of guys out there. Larry Raglin. There's guys that I raced against, Roger Mears in stadium racing, that were always going to be tough to beat and good racers that weren't what I guys that would run into you on purpose to spin you out and stuff. These guys were all just really professionals.
[00:55:40.320] - Big Rich Klein
They wanted to race you clean.
[00:55:41.170] - Ivan Stewart
I think they were my son, Walker.
[00:55:42.430] - Big Rich Klein
I'm sorry? They would race you clean.
[00:55:45.300] - Ivan Stewart
Race you clean. That's the word I'm looking for. Just good clean racers. They're always fast, always drove hard, but clean.
[00:55:52.860] - Big Rich Klein
I guess getting close to wrapping this up is you were inducted into Ormhoff, the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame in 2006, and then into the Motorsports Hall of Fame, which is all-encompassing in 2020. What were those instances like?
[00:56:16.090] - Ivan Stewart
Just always super special. I think it's funny because I'm sure everybody thinks the same as I do, eventually, that when you go into a form of racing, you don't even dream about anything that far out there, being into a Hall of Fame or have that recognition. All you want to do is race. If you could just finish the race, it'd be spectacular. Then someday, if I could finish in the top three, that'd really be cool. Then if I could win a race God, that'd be the ultimate. I don't care what form we're racing. Then it would be a championship. Well, just about the time you win a couple of championships, somewhere in there you think, God, I'd really like to be in the Hall of Fame. That's way reaching out there. Because you just don't walk up and say, Hey, I want to be in the Hall of Fame. People have got to vote for you. It's a big process in both the Off-Road Hall of Fame and in the Hall of Fame of America. But yeah, it's special, super special to be with a group of people in both of those Hall of Fames.
[00:57:21.610] - Ivan Stewart
What else could you ask for? I got everything I wanted out. What else can I do in my life other than enjoy it now?
[00:57:29.170] - Big Rich Klein
Right. What would your words be to somebody that walks up to you and says, Hey, Ivan, I want to get into off-road racing. What do I need to do?
[00:57:46.090] - Ivan Stewart
Most people know I've had that question a lot. Most people, I said, Well, how much money you got? You got enough money to buy a race car? Usually it's no. I tell them, I'll tell you what I'd do. For me, I'd go out to an off-road race and I'd find a team that's winning, that you want to be involved with, and go introduce yourself and volunteer your time. Start off as a volunteer. I mean, that's probably 90% of the... Close to 99% of the people getting involved in any sport is volunteering their time to just to learn the terminology. You think about it, if you're going to be a golfer, there's a lot of terminology you got to learn. Same in Indy car racing or Nascar racing or off-road racing. So once you You're in the terminology and you're willing to work hard and do what they ask you to do, whatever it might be, clean the shop. There's a great story. Walker Evans has got a guy that started with sweeping the floor. And it's been one thing for like 35 years now. They never had another job other than working for Walker Evans and started sweeping the floor.
[00:58:55.740] - Ivan Stewart
So volunteer your time, volunteer your time, get involved, and go for it.
[00:59:03.030] - Big Rich Klein
And your family. Do you want to talk about your family? You had a family before you started racing.
[00:59:15.340] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, sure. Well, my wife, Linda, and my oldest son is Brian, and Gary, and Craig. And Craig has really involved my youngest one in building race cars, servicing race cars, prepping them, and down El Cajon, California. Stuart Raceworks is his business. My other son, Gary, he gets around in different types of business. He spent a lot of time in the automotive service riders and things like that. Then my oldest son, Brian, who lives in Flagstab, where we live now. He raced for years and made his living driving in movies and stunt cars and performance driving and that type of stuff. He drove for Walker for a long time. We've had a great life. All of us, the whole family has been deeply involved in off-road racing on the off-road.
[01:00:10.970] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. I guess you can't really ask for more than that. It was a dream, and you made the dream come true.
[01:00:21.460] - Ivan Stewart
Yeah, we did. We certainly did. Timing is so important, as I mentioned earlier, that sometimes you get the timing. I happened to be at the perfect time and the perfect spot to have the Ironman name for one. I knew Kyle Wells because he had been prepping some other cars for me to get involved with Toyota. That was probably the biggest, best thing I did for timing was For all of them. Everything was a good time for me to get involved.
[01:00:52.440] - Big Rich Klein
I'd like to say thank you so much for spending the time and having this conversation with me and sharing your life with me and our listeners. And I want to say that it was a great opportunity for me to finally get to talk to you and not have to worry about other people asking you questions. I got to ask you all my questions. So I really appreciate that.
[01:01:19.560] - Ivan Stewart
Well, I appreciate you thinking of me and being on your show. And be sure to say hello to those guys on the board there at the Off-Road Hall of Fame, especially Frank Arciero. I haven't seen him in a while.
[01:01:31.140] - Big Rich Klein
I will do that, and I'm sure he'll listen to this.
[01:01:34.230] - Ivan Stewart
Okay, Rich. Good talking to you. All right.
[01:01:37.320] - Big Rich Klein
Ivan Ironman-Stuart, thank you so much for taking the time. You have a great day.
[01:01:41.380] - Ivan Stewart
You too. Bye-bye.
[01:01:43.320] - Big Rich Klein
Bye-bye. Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.