OG Rockcrawler, Fab Guy, Magazine Hero Chris Durham on Episode 27

OG Rockcrawler, magazine hero and the Ultimate Fab guy, Chris Durham of Chris Durham Motorsports joins us this week. Chris tells us about growing up in South Carolina, how he hates mud, rock crawling competitions and Ultimate Adventure.  http://cdmracing.com/ 

2:56 – 55 BelAir or 79 Ford pickup

3:34 – how muddy can you get? 

5:32 – automotive vs. construction

10:13 – the perfect combination

12:37 – vacationing in Farmington

17:41 – what are you doing under my Jeep Walker?

20:48 – fixing drive lines

25:45 – Shupe, the center of attention

31:50 – Free pizza! 

40:53 – combining hoods and fenders for lift

We want to thank our sponsors Maxxis Tires and 4Low Magazine.

www.maxxis.com

www.4lowmagazine.com 

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

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[00:00:01.080] - Big Rich Klein

Welcome to the Big Rich show, this podcast will focus on conversations with friends and acquaintances within the four wheel drive industry. Many of the people that I will be interviewing, you may know the name, you may know some of the history, but let's get in depth with these people and find out what truly makes them a four wheel drive enthusiast. So now's the time to sit back, grab a cold one and enjoy our conversation. 

[00:00:29.660] - Maxxis Advertisement

Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of MOAB or hauling your toys to the trail Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two Maxxis tires is the choice of champions, because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires delivers. Maxxis tread victoriously. 

[00:00:56.220] - 4Low Advertisement

Why should you read 4Low magazine, because 4Low magazine is about your lifestyle, the Four-Wheel Drive adventure lifestyle that we all enjoy, rock crawling, trail riding, event coverage, vehicle builds and do it yourself tech all in a beautifully presented package. You won't find 4Low on a newsstand rack. So subscribe today and have it delivered to you. 

[00:01:21.150] - Big Rich Klein

On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, we have Chris Durham, Chris's original rock crawling competitor, Fab Guy, magazine hero, and just generally an all around great guy. One of my favorite competitors over the years. We're going to learn a little bit about Chris, hopefully a lot what drove him into off-road and how he got to where he is today. So, Chris, thank you for coming on with me and sharing your life and your history in Off Road and Rockcrawling with our listeners.

[00:01:57.370] - Big Rich Klein

So let's get started. Tell me about growing up off-road where did you grow up? How did you get started in an off road and kind of your background. 

[00:02:08.510] - Chris Durham

So background, I lived in South Carolina pretty much my whole life, other than traveling a lot over the years, I've been very fortunate to go see a lot of places four-wheeleing across the United States, for various different entities. So basically, you know, it started out as.

[00:02:25.520] 

Kind of a hobby turned into a profession. Still is still a very sought after hobbies. Not a not a profession per se, other than the work side of it now for me. So basically, it's. Know self-employed shop owner for 20 years now and just kind of running through things that are so the backdrop of that is, you know, I go back to the beginning. One of the things that put me into the off-road industry. Was when I was a kid, when my first vehicle, I had an option of buying a 55 Bel Air or a 79 Ford truck, and I opted for the Ford truck instead.

[00:03:05.230] 

And I often wonder where I would be at if I would have bought the fifty five instead. So I know would be deep in the street rods, which I still have a somewhat of a street rod background and build some from time to time for people. But it's all modernization, you know, taking the old, making new. So from that, you know, just as a teenager I was trail riding some in a full size truck and wasn't doing no rock crawling, but it was just trail rides and, you know, mud holes because that was a thing.

[00:03:34.420] 

When you're a kid and you see how dirty muddy you can get, learn real quick it costs a lot of money to fix stuff. Muddy. Kind of ventured away from that and try to I will drive way out of the way to avoid a mud hole now. All the media is out there and show it that way, but that's because we had to go through nowadays. You know, the young ones are getting is you know, if we're one of the trips where it's that's the only way to get through there, you know, there's no bypasses.

[00:04:01.600] 

So but I really don't like them at all yet in ultimate adventure, they kind of they kind of look for that stuff, don't they? They look for a variety in the biggest thing of Ultimate Adventure is there's a lot of places has places to wheel, but it's either you have mountainous terrain and rock or you have mud holes. Some places you have both, but, you know, we cover such vast areas over the years, a lot of places, Florida, for example, is nothing but mud.

[00:04:31.410] 

But you got to sooner or later, you got to go to every state. So in Florida, there's nothing but deep mud. That's just an example. Alaska was mud and more mud and more mud and more mud. But, you know, it's different.

[00:04:43.470] 

But it's a trip of a lifetime. It really is. You know, it was very fortunate to get involved in that after getting out of rock, crawling and falling into that and being to be a part of as long as I have. It's been a been a real treat. 

[00:04:56.190] - Big Rich Klein

OK, well, let's let's go back to the beginning, talk about that Ford pickup and and what got you involved in an automotive repair. I understand you went to school for automotive repair. And what kind of led you down that road? 

[00:05:14.750] - Chris Durham

So when I was in high school, I was actually my dad's in to construction work, so instead of taking carpentry in high school in vocational school, I decided I wanted something different. I wanted to learn a new trade or learn something different, not go to school for what I already knew. So basically what I did is I took automotive, I decided an automotive program so that I could work on my own vehicle.

[00:05:41.380] 

I want to fix my own vehicle and a little bit of background. My grandfather had had a shop and a junkyard back in the 60s and 70s, early 80s. So when I was a kid, I was in there a fair amount of time as well. So I just kind of took a liking to it, I guess. My biggest thing was I want to be able to fix my own vehicle. And if I wanted to modify or upgrade or just repair it, I wanted to be able to do it myself.

[00:06:06.220] 

So I went to vocational school and the vocational schools had competitions between vocational schools throughout the year. Teacher put me in the class or in the competitions, and I won the upper state and state and got a full scholarship to local vocational college. So when I got out of. Out of high school, I had basically a full scholarship to go to tech two, two and a half year class. And then from there, I did the same thing as part of the competition class that traveled went to the Nationals in Louisville, Kentucky.

[00:06:40.840] 

And, you know, I did good throughout all that and just kind of the automotive become a natural reflex to me. So from that, I was working in dealerships and worked in dealerships for a few years and I realized that I didn't the dealership was not my not my deal.

[00:06:59.740] 

I didn't like it. So I wanted something different and got out dealerships and a friend of mine, family, owned an off road shop. And when I was burnt out on the dealership, I went to them and said, I need to talk to you. And he's like I need to talk to you, too. I need some help. So I'm just I'm looking for a job. And it worked out easy. Walt Radeon worked there for a few years.

[00:07:24.460] 

Long story short, worked another shop for a couple of years and then decided that it was best that I just did it on my own, left. The shop I was in build a small garage, rolled my toolbox in started the first job. And I've been behind ever since for 20 years now. Never had to wonder what I was going to do.

[00:07:44.350] - Big Rich Klein

It was always which one I was going to do next, but growing quickly. And I said, that's good to have that kind of business. You must have a good reputation in your area to to be able to, you know, keep that kind of business going for over 20 years. Yes, it's never been an issue, and the biggest thing is, you know, if you treat people right, you do things right, you fix things the right way.

[00:08:10.810] - Chris Durham

You know, I've never up until. Last year, I've never advertised anything in my life, I went for 10 years. Didn't have a business card is was all by word of mouth. So that says a lot to be to be able to do that and, you know, in the last 20 years, we've had some hard times in economy and in different things. And I've never. You know, I've been very fortunate to not have any issues from it, even now through this mess we're dealing with now, it's it's I'm still I'm as busy now or busier than I ever have been.

[00:08:44.950] - Big Rich Klein

That's great, but that's that's really good and being able you must have some employees that you can trust to be able to take the time to go to MOAB and for Easter Jeep, of course, we couldn't do that this year. But, you know, to do that and to ultimate adventure and some of the other trips that you make, is that is that a key or do you have to close the shop down the. 

[00:09:09.600] - Chris Durham

Well, for years I just closed shop, you know, because I was one man for a long time and I had part time help here and there.

[00:09:16.890] 

But for the last probably the last 10 years, I've had some good help and they've stuck in here and they worked while I've been gone, and then I give them the same opportunity when I get back, if they want to go somewhere on the trip for, you know, the same amount of time where, you know, they're welcome to go whenever they want, wherever, you know. And it's very easy because they helped me. So at least I can do is help them.

[00:09:40.380] - Big Rich Klein

That's good. Let's go into the into the off road portion of that you were trail riding in your Ford pickup. Obviously, that that vehicle's probably not on the road anymore. 

[00:09:55.040] - Chris Durham

Now, it's been sitting in storage for a long time. Oh, you still have it, though. The round to it list. I have a very long round to it list. The truck itself, while I was still driving and I acquired my first CJ.

[00:10:13.970] 

C.J. five and. I built one. What I thought was the right thing to build and it was not the right thing to build for what we needed for for actual trail riding. Listen to the wrong person when I built it, basically. So I went trail riding with some friends, realized what I needed to come back, bought another CJ and built it back then, a combination, perfect combination with the thirty five thirty six inch tire, radial tire, Dana forty four front and rear, six cylinder V8, whatever each side for powerplant.

[00:10:47.640] 

But that was a good combination. East Coast wheel, we wheeled wherever we wanted to for most part. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of background to that is and why that combination works as well as it does. But then from there I acquired several more vehicles and built some. What we called cab trucks back in the day are hybrids. We take the full size frame and the small cab and just put the cab on. You can say a Chevy love cab or a Nissan cab on to a full size Chevrolet Blazer frame.

[00:11:20.380] 

And all you had was just the cab and four wheels and the drivetrain. So you didn't worry about any body damage or anything. You could go wherever you wanted to. So at that point, we escalated from that. And I got back into another jeep when I wanted to have windows and doors and something nice again. So I found a CJ10 that I actually built. It was an aircraft tug and the aircraft tug was ugly, short, two wheel drive, Nissan Diesel had a transfer case in it that was mechanically held in the low range.

[00:11:55.970] 

So for pulling the plane around so I can hold drivetrain and built custom axles for it, put a 258 six-cylinder in it, straight to wheelbase. All said and done, 110" wheelbase made a custom bed for it and made it nice when it's all said and done, before I went to Moab my first year, which is part of where I got started in off-road, the rock crawling side of it years later, but. So after building it, there's a group of us decided to go out west every year, went to Moab as a vacation, just a group of friends together for vacation.

[00:12:37.280] 

So we decided that we wanted to go somewhere different every year after that and we didn't know where to go. So we're talking to Pat Gremillion at Premier Power Welder, back in the day from Orange Bronco, always in the magazines, always there talking to him and ask him where to go. And he said, go to Farmington, New Mexico. Plenty of places to drive, plenty of trails all the way home and then some and they had an event there with the first ARCA Goodyear rockcrawling competition.

[00:13:09.460] 

So all of us signed up for the event, and after doing so, we got there, we wheeled all week ahead of time, signed up for the event and told myself I did good in the first one, I would continue to do the series it was five that year, I believe, five or six. And so after doing so first obstacle, I broke both axles and was, you know, I'm over my head. I'm twenty something years old, young, and I never done anything like that.

[00:13:42.190] 

And, you know, I just realized I'm like, you know, I just throwed the towel in. Well, this guy comes by, didn't know who he was at time, it  was Phil Collard he was the trail designer and he came by and he says asked me if I had the stuff to start fixing with, I've got parts. But, you know, I'm this is way more than what I bargained for. You know, it's over my head. He said, well, I've been watching you out here all week to see if you got the parts to fix it, fix it, you're capable of doing everything else out here the rest of the weekend. Just fix it if you've got the parts.

[00:14:13.650] 

 So we've met a lot of people in that first event and one of the guys become friends, actually become my spotter years later was Tim Donaldson. We didn't have a jack. So I told my spotter, I said, go find this Jack so we can fix it. So Andrew was walking through the crowd of vehicles and here's a Hi-Lift bolted to the back of somebody's jeep and he just takes it off. Go fix, go back and go to give him the Jack back and he didn't realize it was gone. Apologize to him, hey we stole your jack a while ago, here it is, wound up becoming friends with them and say years later, Tim actually becomes my spotter for a while and escalated. We did. I forget the exact numbers now. It's been so long, I qualified in the top 15 out of 72. I was finished in the top 15. I think it's 9th or vice versa, not 12 something that nature. And so after that, I told myself I did good in the first one, I continue the series.

[00:15:09.900] 

So from there. I think the next event was in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and we come out to it and it did fairly well in it, and by the third event was Cedar City. We actually won the event in Cedar City. And from there we escalated we've bumped up to second in points behind John Currie. And and from there, you know, it just it was a finish to the end to try to win the series. And that was a.

[00:15:39.280] 

Kind of become a goal of mine for that year and turned out it worked out. We actually did win the series the first ever, and so it just kind of escalated on. And we met so many people along the way and can't say enough about the industry in the amount of people and the quality of nature in this industry is unreal. 

[00:16:00.510] - Big Rich Klein

I have to agree, the friendships that I've made in the 20 years plus that I've been involved with the sport and the industry has been incredible, the camaraderie, the helpfulness of everybody, you know, just our friendship, I, I only get to see, like once a year now when we when we see each other in Moab.

[00:16:22.460] 

But it's great to be able to sit down and and talk and see how everybody is doing. And, you know, one of the things that we're fortunate about as we travel and put on events, if we have a problem, you know, we break down or, you know, I need a part or something like that, just being able to get in on a social media and saying, hey, anybody nearby, that can help. And it's amazing how many people will come out of the woodwork and even drive four hours or five hours to help.

[00:16:52.460] 

You know, that's I don't think there's another another industry where you can get help like that.

[00:16:58.340] - Chris Durham

I agree with you and I've had I've had several friends of mine that drove that distance to get me off the side of the road when I was driving back in the day to the comps. And transmissions break or, you know, break down trail or whatever, you know, over the years that if you do it enough, there's going to be issues. But like you say, there's always somebody there that would lend a hand, give you their shop, you know, give you the tools, whatever you needed.

[00:17:21.620] 

Even if they was competing against you that still give you the stuff they had, you know, to to be able to continue on or whatever.

[00:17:28.280] - Big Rich Klein

So, you know, this is the the second try on getting this interview done. We had some technical difficulties in that first go round that we had. You talked about a.

[00:17:41.480] - Chris Durham

An experience with meeting Walker Evans told to tell that story again, so at one of the highlights or highlights, one of the things that stands out in memory from Cedar City is after winning the event was the back of the motel parking lot and it was sitting around talking about having a look over and somebody is underneath my Jeep. There's two people underneath my jeep. And I'm like, what are they doing under my jeep? And I'm laying on the ground underneath my jeep in a parking lot.

[00:18:10.190] 

And I'll go over there. And it's actually Walker Evans. And Randy is a mechanic. And there's there's looking at it and they're trying they're just looking because they're amazed at how something that old and ragged could work so well and made the comment they told me, asked me if I needed a rear crossmember  frame crossmember was broke completely in two. And I told him, I said well, if you look how many times has been welded back together, I finally got tired of welding it back together and just left alone.

[00:18:37.880] 

And, you know, somebody would contribute that to his frame flex, is whatever it is, rear wheel travel. It's how are you going to call it? But I got tired of fixing it and it worked after that. So and still to this day that CJ10 the frame Crossmember is broke in the same place and I still wheel it like it is.

[00:18:57.710] 

So you never fixed it after that. You didn't upgrade it. You just you just left it. If it gets real bad, I'll weld it again. And it'll last for six months or so in a break again. So it is probably a fifty pound spool of wire holding that crossmember in from over the years, probably, you know, as long and hard of life as it's had, though it's had a lot of repairs. So what I first I first met you, we didn't really get a chance to to meet or be introduced, but that was that Cedar City event.

[00:19:33.000] - Big Rich Klein

But where I really got to know you, I feel was at our at the first event I put on personally. And that was put up or shut up in Lake Amador, November of 2001. And you showed up as part of a team with Mike Harmouth and Ted and Rene LeBaron. And I think Danny GrImes was there as well. But it was. It was pretty cool to have you guys come over from Arca and compete at my first event.

[00:20:09.890] 

And one of the things that I remember about you from that event was Breaking a driveline. And jumping out. Replacing the drive line and then trying to finish the course, first of all, know there's only ten minute time limit on course, but you got that drive line replaced, and then you were trying to finish the course. And I don't remember. I know it was one of the late obstacles of the day, but you came really close to finishing that course.

[00:20:41.570] 

If if if not, maybe finishing the course. Do you remember that? 

[00:20:48.290] - Chris Durham

So that happened a couple of times over the years and for me, with the style of trail riding that had been through my driving style, I broke several drive lines over the years on different different reasons. It was kind of a common breakage for me at the time. And being in that being said, so the reason that I was able to change it out so fast is because the wrench and the u-bolts that I needed to put back in case I needed anything was actually taped to the rollcage.

[00:21:21.260] 

So by the time I got seatbelt unhooked, I had the tools in my hand to repair the shift in the drive shaft was readily available as well, you know, bungee cord to the floor, just basically quick and simple. So I could change the drive shaft and still complete an obstacle quickly. And I said did that several times over the years and probably still got a lot of it's got to be you know, you've got to be motivated. You got to be driven.

[00:21:45.980] 

You've got to be good with your hands and you got to think ahead and plan ahead. And the planning ahead was the biggest reason why I was able to do that, because I had everything I need is readily available within arm's reach. So that played a big part in being able to do that. And that's that's great, because I see a lot of guys will will have an issue on course and then just give up and say, OK, I'll take my break down time if I can't make the next course and we'll see if we can get it fixed or not.

[00:22:15.240] - Big Rich Klein

But from early on, I tried to to tell our drivers, the drivers meeting, especially the new guys, you know, you have that 10 minutes that you're on course to do whatever you need to do to finish that course. And I always relate that story back to them about you at Amador replacing that that drive line. So thank you for being being good that way and giving me something to teach the new guys with that. You competed for quite a few years.

[00:22:48.840] 

I know that you competed at ARCA you competed at Cal Rocks with me. You competed at Pro Rock as well. I remember going to Johnson Valley, he was a master's course and I had an event the next weekend or two weeks later from the weekend that I was there and you guys were competing. And I think it was with Bob Hazel that I know it was with Bob Hazel and we were all standing around while it was John Currie, You, I think Adam Dodds was actually spotting for you that weekend, but there were some others that were that were there and were standing around and somebody comes up to me and because I was handing out flyers for my event at Bob Hazel's event.

[00:23:41.150] 

And I remember somebody from Bob Hazels group came up and said, hey, you know, you can't hand out flyers for your event at this event. And I'm like, well, I'm not asking people to leave your event now, I'm asking them to come back to the area in two weeks. Why couldn't I do that when you didn't ask Bob? And I remember looking over and Bob Hazel was standing about 40 feet away and I I yelled over and said, hey, Bob, can I hand out flyers?

[00:24:11.060] 

And he looked at me and kind of shook his head and like, all right, fine. But you guys were all standing there. So I felt like I had some backup, you know, to be able to ask that question, he ended up letting me hand out the flyers. And Bob and I always got along OK, doing the events. I can't say that about all the other promoters, but we're all the guys that I see now. We're all friends, whether it's Craig Stumph or Ranch Pratt.

[00:24:39.560] 

I haven't seen Bob. Have you heard from Bob lately? Nobodys heard from Bob in years

[00:24:46.740] 

 that's what I've what I've heard from a lot of guys, anyway, we digress. Let's go to some of the guys that you competed against, see if you could tell us any stories. That you remember, say with Shupe Ken Shupe. Anything that stands out in your mind. 

[00:25:10.120] - Chris Durham

The biggest thing with him is he's always wearing his swimming shorts and or the one of  from the shorts or boxers or something that would dress appropriately, you everywhere he went, that's one of the biggest things to stand on about him.

[00:25:21.180] 

He always tried to be. The center of attention is still to this day, he's still the same person, loves to be the center of attention, name he will do things and. Tell you later that he's done things, certain things you just don't say that you've done, but he's that person that will tell you everything bad he's ever done in his life.

[00:25:45.350] 

Years ago was used to trail ride with Shupe all the time. And that's just one of the ones that got me heavily involved with it. So we were in the year when Moab. They were doing a photo shoot on my CJ10. Ken was there on the same obstacle on bump Dump, but don't always exit to the right side of it on the big wall face, and they were taking photos of my Jeep and Ken ask them if I turned my jeep over here right now.

[00:26:15.530] 

Will y'all put in the magazine and they said, no, we won't do it. And so that really burning up, so we get back home and somehow or another, I heard different stories, but they were sitting outside with a paint gun, with a paintball gun and shooting from the side of the jeep. And it had multicolored paintballs. So then he got the idea that he was going to paint his jeep, all these different colors like Skittles colors.

[00:26:46.080] 

Camo style painted a clear code to the whole nine yards, we were in Tennessee on one of Bob Hazels runs and I came of the guy's name, the photographer, to come to me a little bit, was there to do an article, and he took a photo of his jeep on a waterfall and put it like full opens Brad Page. And the caption said, You cannot lose this one in the mall parking lot.

[00:27:18.150] 

When he got his first shot in the magazine because of the skittles paint job. And he had a few other theories of why painting it like that, I'm not going to say it this time, so but yeah, it was very common. Calm, always a good time.

[00:27:33.190] - Big Rich Klein

Let's talk let's talk some memories then about some of the other guys about Joel Randall.

[00:27:39.490] - Chris Durham

So I run into him just a couple of years ago, somewhere on a trail. The first time I saw him out in years, Joel's good guy. He was very you know, he did most of his own, builds himself in his garage through the winter months of season. Farmer when he wouldn't farm and he was working on his buddy, a super nice guy. I don't I don't ever remember a bad thing about him, really. I mean, he was he's always is always there, always on time, always just like like he was he was a top notch guy.

[00:28:13.720] 

Yeah. And what have you. And you point to any direction or whatever at any time.

[00:28:18.760] 

A gentleman you could tell he was you know, he had backcountry, his farming back country and that sort of thing spoke a lot for his reactions, the way he acted and treated people because he was from that era of people that they treated me with respect. How about Shannon Campbell? So, Shannon, I remember seeing Shannon Campbell in a magazine in Pinky, and we get to the first event and he's driving Pinky and you know, it's funny to me, the first article in the magazine to come out with us, you know, in the ARCA competition and everything, they end.

[00:28:59.060] 

And they actually printed it, and I don't think they actually called it at the time, so the editor asked Shannon about these vehicles and what happened, and he told them we had the how locker was the Lincoln locker. And they rolled out his Lincoln locker in the magazine. It was, what, about eight years, but they wrote it out as a Lincoln locker in the magazine and they won't forget that. But yeah, Shannon Shannon drove the wheels off because he really did and his background was racing your whole life anyway.

[00:29:27.000] 

So, you know, that was a good thing, a good experience for me to meet him. And once I made him, I forget the event we was at somewhere. And we're going to do a ride in Phoenix and I think a broke transmission case, and he knew he had a transmission guy and invited me back to his shop, we pulled a transmission out, send it out, had it fixed, come back, put it in just so we could go trail riding next weekend.

[00:29:55.690] 

And that's another that group stand up know. But they were willing to they let me use their shop. They give me all the contacts. They help me take the transmission out, put it back in just so I can go ride with them next week. So that says a lot about your character. We had a lot of good times, a lot of good events. Enjoy that a lot. About Jason Paule and the whole twisted customs team with his spotter was Travis and then Travis's dad, George George.

[00:30:31.550] 

Yep. So a funny thing about Jason Paule I've not seen or talked to him. I've talked to him messages a few times, maybe once on the phone since two thousand and four maybe. So it's been 15 years and only onUltimate Adventure this year we actually park our truck and trailer at Jason Paule's House. And they got to see him again, and he's not saying he's not changed, we've changed. He's not. He's still the same old Jason he was.

[00:31:01.680] 

He just got a long beard now and he's just doing his thing, working on race trucks. And, you know, he's still he's still living and chasing that dream and then hats off to him. But he is a phenomenal painter and his artistic skills is his own is like nobody else's. I know he is he is a vision of stuff that very few people have as far to be able to see. The creativeness that comes out of him is amazing.

[00:31:27.890] 

One of his teammates is probably one of the most intense competitors I've had to deal with, and he's on my list of of to. Of guys to to to interview as well, and that's Tracy Tracy Jordan. So what was it like competing against Tracy? Tracy was.

[00:31:50.260] 

He always kept a very competitive edge. He was he he did his best to stay on top. And he watched all the fine details, but when they started, you know, he was with some of the early crowd with rear steer and. I remember his original Land Cruiser with hydraulics on it. He could control each corner hydraulically, individually. So it was somewhere actually in his house because it was doing a trail ride for one of the magazines, a solemn trail out of Phoenix and.

[00:32:22.780] 

He ordered pizza for everybody. And he talked with the delivery driver, quite a joke on, and told him that they could drive his Land Cruiser down the road on three wheels to get the pizza for free. They didn't know he had hydraulics on it, pulled one rear wheel over there and drove it down the highway and tried to come back on three wheels and got free pizza.

[00:32:46.510] 

And we thought about it, but it worked. That's pretty awesome. Let's see. What about Randy Torbet? Did you get a chance you got a chance to compete against Randy, did you?

[00:32:58.190] 

Yeah, I competed against Randy Randy in the EROC series. I think the first and second year, second year he was in EROC.

[00:33:07.130] 

Randy was very, very patient. He never got in a hurry for anything because he had everything planned out in his head from the time this started. The time he stopped in there, we got in a hurry and everybody and very laid back. And he was actually a very good driver and he came up with some things that probably put a lot of drive in the industry as far as he was started using, he was using tractor equipment, better turning radiuses, you know, and I think he's probably some of the first ones.

[00:33:39.430] 

That was putting the weights in their tires as well. He was doing that, he was in that crowd. So, you know, a lot of stuff he come up with was was instrumental to in the beginning. And, you know, nobody knew who he was until after he after the first year you competed and everybody knew he was. But he did things just so, so much finesse, you know, just like he never got hurry or excited about anything he just drove.

[00:34:06.110] - Big Rich Klein

What was what were your thoughts the first time you saw the car, tiny, that somebody hit somebody? Not knowing the backstory at the time, but looking at, you know, somebody had plenty of. Time, effort and money to build tiny, and the concept was great, the lightweight was key, you know, that was that was the biggest thing is just the sheer size and weight. But you had to have a that much of a racing background to be able to build something like that and make it live.

[00:34:36.670] 

And that's something that a lot of us didn't have, was the actual racing background as to what they were accustomed to. So, you know, they were at a time they were way ahead of their game when they did that, they created a whole new era of by doing that, but they thought outside the box and they made it work, which is good. It was it was a game changer for sure. The downside to it is it took the reality of normal looking vehicles and went to Buggie, that was the that was the buggy turning point.

[00:35:05.510] 

And that was early, that's what amazes me, is it happened very early. In fact, I don't know if you know the story, but John Bunderant, when he competed that first season event event we did down and outside of Lucerne Valley at Lyons Pride Park. John was competing in his Toyota Truggy and John Nelson was there watching. He'd convinced Nelson to come out and watch John had. Done a break over, landed on the frame really hard and broken, the broken his back, similar to what you had done later on, and he he had some time off from the event to heal.

[00:35:53.870] 

And that's when they started working on Tiny because Nelson was like, well, let's let's figure this stuff out and basically put a seat on a milk crate and said, OK, let's design a buggy around where you sit. And they they used from what John said and said is that they use the. The basics of the truggy, width and length wheelbase to design tiny, but to make it specifically a buggy instead of taking a regular vehicle and modifying it. And he was definitely a game changer.

[00:36:37.850] 

Definitely a game changer. So what was the what event do you remember the most what besides being, say, the first event that you went to? What event over the years competitive event stands out most in your mind and why? Probably one of the biggest ones in my mind at this time will be the last the last of the first series of ARCA, you know, that's that's one of the big, I guess, big points in my time was having the opportunity to win the first ever series.

[00:37:13.960] 

You know, that was that was a game changer for me. And the fact of the things I could do from there and opportunity doors that open for me if we would have had social media back then. Like what we do now, they would have been involved, we would we would have progressed so much faster, you know, with having the ability to get knowledge out to people that what we're actually doing, we're instead of just, you know, X amount of prints in the magazine and video, we could actually have put it to come on the map a lot faster and it would help more teams.

[00:37:48.150] 

To be able to afford to progress with the Tiny's and stuff like that, you know, would have helped a lot more people out. But just the fact of, you know, me being. And I don't remember the age I was at the time, but, you know, me being that young. From East Coast, going out West Coast with all these people that, you know, for years I saw in a magazine and then I've become friends, a lot of them, and compete against them and actually winning the series that was just, you know, that was a I don't think I should say, like on top of the totem pole, you figure somebody that's, you know, an early 20s to accomplish a goal like that with with nothing really.

[00:38:26.540] 

You know, I didn't have nothing, nothing high tech, still leaf springs, still carburated, you know, didn't have nothing but to make that goal. Was that was a that was a big deal for me. Was Moose spotting you at that point? Yes, that was his that was the fourth event that he spotted for me.

[00:38:43.310] 

So Andrew spotted the first one and Moose part of the next four. Have you have you seen Moose lately or and when was that? I saw him last week. Oh really? And tell him I said hello. Oh yeah, he lives for about 15 minutes away. Cool. So a regular basis. Well, we're going to be doing a a tour this off season, and our goal is to stay close or below I-40, Interstate 40. I'm going to try to get into your area, South Carolina, and come by and say hello.

[00:39:23.050] 

So when I do that, I get to maybe we can put together a barbecue or something like that and get some of the those guys that I haven't seen in years to come on by so that we can all say hello.

[00:39:36.810] 

That would be awesome. We can make it happen. That would be great. So what kind of things are you doing now besides just repair? I know that you have your Chris Durham Motorsports. I know that you've created some different body. Panels and front ends and stuff like that, you've you've gone to the low slung big tire, you know, the the look I've always liked, instead of building them tall, you've kept them low. So let's talk about that where you wear your mindset was on that and what kind of products that you offer.

[00:40:13.620] 

So in the end beginning, I learned, low center of gravity was key. You know, that was so real early, early knowledge. You knew from from the competition side, I learned how valuable that was. So then after building a few vehicles and I started building TJs for myself and for customers, and I come up with a formula basically on I made a hood was the biggest key. So when we were doing the competitions, the rules, I don't remember if it was yours or ARCA one, the rules were 48 inch wide body minimum, and you had to have a fender that was four inches wide.

[00:40:53.760] 

So I combinedthe the hood and fender into one piece so that we had all the tire clearance we needed and we could keep that low center of gravity. So in doing that, that allowed us to set the platform for the next 15 years of LCG builds because with just a hood from only tje, you gained seven inches of ground clearance or tower clearance just by cutting the fenders and putting the hood on So that's that's equivalent to seven inch lift. Same same scenario.

[00:41:25.020] 

So in doing it up for grabs and so on. And so it's for over 20 years now and progressed and made several different models. And then I started making conversions and and that sort of thing. So now it's I don't know the exact number of different molds and parts I have with it, but anything from your typical C.J., T.J. Hood standard width and I have narrowed it for Buggys. I have cowls, grills and various things. And I made the.

[00:41:52.930] 

So a few years ago, I had a. a gladiator grill hanging on the wall behind a wall for years, and I just decided one day that I was going to put that gladiator grill in front of a JK. And that was going to be my next build, so I literally went and bought a J.K. brought it in the shop and took a Wagoneer front clip and started cutting down and immigrated to together. And my goal was it was going to maintain the stock gladiator grill insert and it does maintain the stock letting the real answer.

[00:42:24.460] 

So now I have that conversion and it's seven to 18, J.K. And I should next few weeks have the JL kit finished up. That'll fit on the gladiator, which he actually should have built begin with, called in Gladiator. It should actually look like this past year or two years ago, I built my blue gladiator pickup before they come out with theirs just to showcase what they could have done in comparison and what he did, he made a regular gladiator going down a road and don't stand out.

[00:42:55.210] 

It looks like a regular JL. You can't tell. Pass it. So this way. My real conversion, you can tell that is something different. You won't lose it. It won't blend in the where it's going to stand out. But on top of that, there's several others like I just did one for the ultimate adventure rig this year. They wanted an MB grill to the TJ or LJ, so they made him a custom hood to use a MB to a TJ cowl.

[00:43:20.410] 

So now I've got a hood available. It's got a flat fenders. It looks like a flat fenderstyle. I put even put a one inch radius limit on top of the hood to match the flat fender theory. So a couple of years ago, I did one four. I was sitting down at dinner with some people from Waen and they were trying to figure out from their seventieth anniversary what I was going to do for four Warn for their vehicle for that year and for Ultimate Adventure.

[00:43:45.430] 

And literally we sat there dinner and discussed it and they said they wanted a scrambler, but they wanted to, T.J. So they looked at me and said, can you make that go from a TJ to the C.J? And how much time we got to do this? It was literally a short period of time, so I'm good to go from a C.J. to A.J.. So just adding to the variety over the years, you know, different conversions and such.

[00:44:11.400] 

I've got several more in the works. I've got. A bunch more I come out with a new TJ hood, kind of took my JK hood with a Ramaiah style set up and converted over to a TJ. So now I have a new highlight for T.J. with a Ram air. And also I should have done a long time ago I actually made two versions of a Highline Hood to fit steel fenders or aftermarket fenders. So now I have a bolt on highline  hood available for T.J. as well.

[00:44:41.840] 

That's you know, everybody is the area. Cut your own down and all that. Now, I actually have one of the bolts on with it. So that's another thing I've been working on to get it finished up. But you know, the builds over the years, that's what kind of drove the builds to that of the T.J. Hood, and then I learned building a new and all the time and keeping it fresh, the one that don't break down there still new so you can get out of it and then to, you know, just it keeps the different stuff there and keeps people looking at these people interested in what's next, what's going to be next.

[00:45:17.890] 

So it's just each year I try to step it up and build something different every year to get people's attention. So, you know, one of these days I won't do that. That's to keep people in the industry driven to be creative. There's a there's a group of us that does that, you know, that keeps people imagination going. You know, one of these days I want to do this, one of these I don't wanna do that.

[00:45:37.830] 

I want do mine like that. There's so many options. So the more you see of sort of the more options you have to do. And it's people like me in the industry that that make things like it happen to give you that option of know I can do this or I can do this with ten other things you can do, but it takes people driven in the industry to make that happen.

[00:45:57.150] 

I agree. I really have enjoyed your builds over the year. Over the years. One of the highlights of Easter is always seeing what you're going to show up with. When Danny's that that chair that you built the right here for, Danny, that was off the hook.

[00:46:16.860] 

And so that was for people that have never seen it. If you're in Moab during Easter Safari, if and when they allow us to do it again, stop by Grampa's garage and it sits out in his in his backyard in front of his shop. I was just there a few weeks ago and visiting, social distancing, visiting. It's that chair is just phenomenal. You know, just to come up, come up with an idea like that. That's so what you do with the cars as well.

[00:46:51.300] 

And it's it's always appreciated. I know that there's a lot of people out there that look forward to seeing what you what you're bringing to Easter every year like I do so. So what's what is on the agenda for Chris over the next couple of years, besides some innovation with some new hoods and stuff? Is there anything else that you're looking to to do or accomplish?

[00:47:16.920] 

I mean, not really at this time. You know, it's just one of the things we're. I'm to the point now where I just try to do as much as I can and still have as much enjoyment as I can, so, you know, I got a message today from a guy from South Dakota. This going to Harlan, Kentucky, in two weeks in the middle of the week. He's like, can you make it up? Well, yeah, I can.

[00:47:39.790] 

You know, that's that's going to be my option because I'm at the point where I work hard enough and, you know. I work over the weekends, if I have to, to make that time up to be here, when I get the opportunity to go somewhere, I'm going to go just to. I have the ability to be able to leave when you want to do that is is a very, very blessed with having an opportunity, you know, very fortunate.

[00:48:06.620] 

I feel the same way with the way we've designed our life and having an off season, being able to travel between seasons, not only traveling for the season, but then now traveling in the off season and being able to go visit people has been great. Couple of years ago, we did the northern route and went up through South Dakota, across Washington and Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota and into Minneapolis, and then dropped down to Indiana.

[00:48:38.900] 

And we got to see so many people into Kentucky looking forward to doing that same thing this offseason. So I understand that being able to to have a business and have some flexibility to be able to do what you want instead of always having to worry about 9:00 to 5:00, you know, is to me, it's paramount. It's part of it's part of why we get into the business that we do so that we can enjoy it, enjoy the lifestyle.

[00:49:08.190] 

This has been a it's been a hard year this year for that because we've not been able to go anywhere. So what has turned me into this year up until I went on Ultimate Adventure? I literally work seven days a week for eight months straight because we couldn't go anywhere, we couldn't do anything and I got to be doing something. So I just I just poured my time into the shop. And then when time come to going over an adventure, I was gone 16 days.

[00:49:33.020] 

But if you do the math on how many weekends I worked in and eight months at 16 days, nothing that's ever the opportunities from now until the end of the year, I'm going to take these opportunities and go just because I've put in my time this year. You know, I've worked overtime. So it don't bother me, you know, because people always ask you how you travel so much, how are you going? Because I work 12, 14 hours a day, seven days a week, so that when time comes for me to go, I just go.

[00:50:01.500] 

If you really want to do something in life, you just got to be motivated and don't sit at home, watch TV, be out in the garage working on your stuff or work overtime to pay somebody to work on it. What have you got to do it. But that's that's what gets you where you would be in life. Is that motivation and drive you just got to want to do it. I agree. I agree. So do you do you take in interns?

[00:50:26.200] 

To to work in the shop to teach somebody what to do if you ever had that opportunity, or is that something that you've you've tried to avoid?

[00:50:36.400] 

I have I've had several people over the years that I wouldn't say necessarily in terms as much as people that we've seen, employees that wanted to learn, you know, and it's that goes a long ways. If, you know, I've had several guys, that one in particular that I really miss and not being here anymore because they moved back up north with his family. But the. Any time he wanted to learn something, I learned right off the bat and see if he was willing to learn and we would learn it, you know, I had a buggy to build one day at one time and start over last hour.

[00:51:09.830] 

And he asked me what I was doing to it. I explained everything had to be done. He asked me, said, You mind if I do it? Oh, my God, that's what you want to do. That's fine. I don't care, you know. And he will come here, show me. I used to, but I don't know how to do it. And literally I showed him the the full proof way of bending tube

[00:51:28.580] 

And he started bending tube and built the whole buggy himself. I mean, I pointed him, you know, what needs to be done. No, but but he did all the tubing and fitment everything just by yourself.

[00:51:41.390] 

That's awesome. That's that's great. Drive for somebody to to want to learn like that. What do you what's your newest project? I know every year you've you've got something that you're building that's that's different. Do you have something on the burner right now?

[00:51:59.960] 

I've not started on anything yet. Two weeks before Easter.

[00:52:05.960] 

Well, so this year on Ultimate Adventure, it was kind of an epic year for me because. I actually had four vehicles that was driven almost in the middle of this year that I personally built. And had three more there that had that I had influence her and my product on it, you know, while they were building it, called me up, I had to do this. How to do that? How do I make this work? So, you know, basically having those four in two of those four, I actually just got finished before we left.

[00:52:38.430] 

So I've been working, trying to get those built. So go on the trip. So one of the readers that got it this year was in a van. It's a good buddy of mine, has helped me for years. And we literally took photos of the van in the shop while we were building it. We submitted his application. And we had to go out and take more photos to send to him to prove that it was drivable and capable before they would give the final approval, because every photo we've seen, it was sitting in the shop while we were working on it.

[00:53:09.150] 

They should have been able to trust that you were going to get it done.

[00:53:13.710] 

The funny thing about that is this is so when called Travis on the phone. They interviewed him, he asked him our voices, you got to be somewhere clear from the south here on and Christian, ask him two or three times, are you sure this ain't Chris trying to punk me? Because, I mean, I was too good to be true, you know, but at the same time. So that was a, you know, a joking conversation from there.

[00:53:38.610] 

But yeah. Yeah, they knew know it'd be it would be done in time, but no, no question on that. Do you don't get advance notice where they're going to go the next year, do you? No, me being a crony, I will find out a region is going to be in, but like they didn't know, they generally don't know where it's going to be at until about two or three months before it happens. So I get a heads up usually on the region is going to be in like a location for plane because, you know, for the cronies that do it, you know, that comes out of our pocket.

[00:54:15.340] 

You know, that's that's something that we do it for the love of it. And I hope people don't live with that. But we you know, that's why we buy our own fuel.

[00:54:23.160] 

If you get their own food, gets our whole nine yards, it's out of our pocket. But it's our it's our vacation. But look at the places that we've been over the years and I never would go. I mean, there's no way I would drive to Kalispell, Montana, for anything other than a venture that give me a reason to drive there. And then it's like a family reunion for some of us, because that's all the time we see each other, is that one time every year.

[00:54:48.280] 

So that's another group family that comes together. And that group is the same, the same as like the rock crawling days. The guys, the backbone of the industry is the same guys, same attitude, same same nine yards. So it's a different group, but it's the same thing. It's a good group. You know, they'll do anything for you. Don't leave nobody behind. You know, it's it's it's good. Do I recommend to everybody to send in an application for that?

[00:55:16.830] 

So there's one thing I want to touch on, and I don't know if it's something that you want to discuss or not, but the last competitive event that I believe that you were in was one of our we rock events there in the Badlands. You had a. What I would call pretty horrific crash on a line that I thought nobody would take, but you were the first one on it and knew that if anybody was going to do it, it was going to be the first guy that tried it.

[00:55:45.760] 

You want to talk about that? Do you remember what I'm talking about? I remember it every day.

[00:55:52.840] 

Yeah, it was you know, at that point in time, on the competition side of things had gotten so competitive that if you didn't make one bonus line, you would be out - fifth or back. You had to hit every bonus line. You had to make every climb. You make, every turn. You know, you really everything got so competitive that you had to be on top of the game. And it was first event of the year.

[00:56:17.650] 

First off, I was first in line and there was a bonus plan there that was, you know, one of them. It was it was there. So we had to try. And I don't know exactly what happened. It happened so fast. I really don't know the full detail on it. But basically, they you know, now it's a big deal to kind of a back flip in a monster truck and a motorcycle. So we'll know.

[00:56:41.860] 

I'll not say fortunate, but I did it back then and doing doing so compressed my spine and broke my back and neck. And that was the last of it. I did the year before. That was a full year. And I did twenty eight events the year before that. And I had everything set up that year that I was actually going to be able to pick and choose. What events I wanted to do was not a complete surprise to anybody.

[00:57:11.560] 

I had everybody on board let me do it my way that year. And, you know, unfortunately that happened. I still finished at the. Race that weekend, I think I finished fifth that weekend painfully, but I finished it and, you know, it's. It was a changing, life changing experience for me. It put me out of that side of it anymore. But at the same time, it put me from doing the competition stuff, which I was going half the year is harder on a business when you're going that much to put me back here working and open a door for me to get involved in other stuff and win back control on most of the competitions.

[00:57:54.620] 

I started doing Ultimate Adventure. I started spending more time going back to grassroots and that for me. Was where I really wanted to be. Anyway, I just didn't realize how cold up I'd gotten in the racing side of chasing that racing dream, you know, it cost me a lot of years, but at the same time, I would take nothing for it. But now that I'm back to, you know, the grassroots feeling. Yeah, I mean, I'm content with it because I do get to go on, you know, ultimate adventure and JKx and JLx and Moab and Daytona and all these places, all these events I get to go to.

[00:58:33.170] 

So that's my Filion. For what I lost then, I'm still doing it just a different level. Well, I'm glad to hear that because I have always beat myself up over that obstacle and that bonus, I really thought that when I saw what I think was my son that had set that obstacle and I was like, you know, man, I don't know about that one. You know, he goes, oh, nobody will probably go for it anyway.

[00:59:02.790] 

And then I saw you lined up for it and I was like, oh, Jesus, here we go. So I apologize that that that that that was there. And, you know, it ended up being the way it was. But I'm glad that some good has come out of that for you, you know, but I'm sorry. I remember coming by and seeing you when you had the back brace and everything and we had lunch together and and yeah, that scene you that back brace will put almost put me in tears.

[00:59:33.000] 

Because, you know, I hated to see somebody hurt like that, it it is it has made me design courses. Differently, think of and thinking about the ultimate outcome, if there is if somebody doesn't complete or if things go bad, what happens? So, you know, that whole thing got me to change how we do things. And but I'm still sorry that that had happened to you. Just wanted to let you know that. Oh, no.

[01:00:04.560] 

So with that, I'd like to say thank you for joining us and being part of the history and being a friend over the years. I know that we had some conversations. There was one that I remember up at Donner and first day didn't go your way. And you came we were sitting there up near the bar restaurant area and you said it may have been in the motorhome, I don't remember, but you said, you know, Rich, I don't know, maybe the sport's gone past me.

[01:00:40.340] 

I don't know if I'll ever win again. And I said, Chris, you'll be fine. Just be Chris. Drive the way you've always driven and things will happen. And that event you ended up winning the on the second day you came back, had a great day and ended up winning the event. And I always thought, you know, God, I hope what we talked about that afternoon after the first day of competition. Helped get you to that point you needed to that day, the next day to win that.

[01:01:10.180] 

So I've always appreciated the drivers that I could have conversations with that like that with. And you've been one of those from day one. And I just want to say thank you for all that you've done for the sport and what you've done for me personally. Running we rock and rock. So thank you. It's been a pleasure. All right, well, you take care and this this off season, I plan on swinging by the shop and saying hello, but I'll let you know before we we show up so we can plan a barbecue or something.

[01:01:47.550] 

And again, I'll call in everybody. That sounds great. Chris, thank you for your time. I know it's real late on the East Coast. I'm sitting here in California and here in South Carolina and we're. You know, you're right, it's about 10, 30, 11 o'clock now, so thank you for taking the time. Have a great one. All right. You do the same. OK, take care. Take care. If you enjoy these podcasts, please give us a rating, share some feedback with us via Facebook or Instagram and share our link among your friends who might be like minded.

[01:02:23.590] 

Well, that brings this episode to an end. OK, you enjoyed it. We'll catch you next week with conversations with Big Rich. Thank you very much.