OG Rockcrawler Steve Nantz of Sandhollow Offroad joins us in Episode 65. Steve’s career has taken him all over the west, many know him from his 16 years at Moab 4x4 Outpost and the outstanding service we all received there. Now at the burgeoning mecca of Sand Hollow, Steve still offers outstanding service.
3:29 – I BMX’d a lot, sponsored rider for Kuwahara
4:45 – started off-roading in the mountains near San Diego
5:54 – we just declared war
8:34 – every day you act as if you’re at war, the difference is you’re loading live ammunition now
11:51 – joined the Mountaineers Jeep Club, that is a great club
13:12 – I went to Moab and broke my t-case, got offered a job
14:52 – I actually spotted for Kevin Hawkins at the very first rockcrawl
16:51 – my buggy was fighter jet style with a seat behind, that was the Centipede
20:07 – Four Wheelers Supply bred really good fabricators
23:32 – it was scary, I’d never been a business owner
29:14 – That’s how we built our reputation in Moab
35:29 – it just worked out good for everybody
40:45 – it really is the Mecca for wheeling
46:16 – when you fabricate, you get to be creative
We want to thank our sponsors Maxxis Tires and 4Low Magazine.
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[00:00:01.050] - Big Rich Klein
Welcome to the Big Rich show, this podcast will focus on conversations with friends and acquaintances within the four wheel drive industry. Many of the people that I will be interviewing, you may know the name, you may know some of the history, but let's get in depth with these people and find out what truly makes them a four wheel drive enthusiast. So now's the time to sit back, grab a cold one and enjoy our conversation.
[00:00:29.490] - Speaker 2
Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of MOAB or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires, you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis tread victoriously.
[00:00:56.050] - Big Rich Klein
Why should you read 4Low magazine, because 4Low magazine is about your lifestyle, the Four-Wheel Drive adventure lifestyle that we all enjoy, rock crawling, trail riding, event coverage, vehicle builds and do it yourself tech all in a beautifully presented package. You won't find 4Low on a newsstand rack. So subscribe today and have it delivered to you.
On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, we have none other than Steve Nantz. Steve has been around the offroad world for a long time.
[00:01:30.490] - Big Rich Klein
I believe the first time I met him may have been an ARCA event, but we'll get into all that history. I know that he's been the owner of MOAB 4x4 Outpost and now Sand Hollow and we'll get into all that history. So, Steve, thank you for coming on board and being part of conversations with Big Rich and sharing your life and history in Off Road with our listeners.
[00:01:54.070] - Steve Nantz
It's a pleasure to be here, Rich
[00:01:56.200] - Big Rich Klein
so we've been we've been friends a long time, but there's a lot about you that I don't know and I'm sure there's a lot out there that that would like to know the things that we're going to discuss. So let's jump right into it. And where did you grow up?
[00:02:12.670] - Steve Nantz
So I grew up in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Which is flat, just flat as can be, and which is kind of crazy to get it off road industry growing up there, but that's where I started.
[00:02:27.330] - Big Rich Klein
You know, I always say Wyoming is the Indian word for always windy here.
[00:02:33.450] - Steve Nantz
That's correct. It snows sideways there.
[00:02:37.410] - Big Rich Klein
So you grew up in in Wyoming. That's where you went to school, born and raised or did you when did.
[00:02:45.260] - Steve Nantz
Yeah. Pretty. Yeah, pretty much. I graduated high school in Cheyenne and pretty much immediately after high school I joined the Navy and did four years work on airplanes as a hydraulic mechanic stationed on a couple aircraft carriers and actually went to Desert Shield and Desert Storm. I was over there for two tours, so. Oh, wow.
[00:03:09.840] - Big Rich Klein
So let's go back to those early years in Cheyenne and in school or in those school years. What was your first foray into the off-road industry or off roading or, you know, were you a bicycle kid or motorcycle ATV?
[00:03:29.950] - Steve Nantz
Yeah, you know, back then, I, I BMX a lot, I was actually sponsored by Kuwahara for a period of time and did a lot of freestyle competition. Oh wow. And my my dad bought me a CJ5 that was the first vehicle I ever owned. And so I learned how to shift a manual transmission in a CJ5.
[00:03:53.560] - Big Rich Klein
So how old were you then?
[00:03:56.380] - Steve Nantz
Oh gosh. I was probably 14 or 15 years old when I got that Jeep. And so I'd go out in the field in front of our house and just practice shifted. And and, of course, going out in the field, you know, it's kind of off roading, I suppose. So I just really enjoyed it. That was a fun time in my life growing up.
[00:04:16.750] - Big Rich Klein
Did you guys off road before that, hunting wise or something like that?
[00:04:20.950] - Steve Nantz
No, no, my dad was an avid hunter and we'd go hunting, but we didn't really ever off road. So I didn't really get into operating until after I got out of the military. Well, actually, I won't say that while I was in the military. I started to get into off roading. So I had the opportunity to buy another jeep while I was in the military that was all fixed up and didn't have big tires and it didn't have lockers and anything like that.
[00:04:45.670] - Steve Nantz
But so we'd go out, you know, on our days off and in San Diego and there's a couple of mountain ranges there, we'd go out and have some fun with them.
[00:04:54.680] - Big Rich Klein
So, OK, in school, those high school years, were you into sports or scholastic or just kind of did your own thing?
[00:05:04.840] - Steve Nantz
You know, I did my own thing. And like I say, I was I was heavily into freestyle, you know, on BMX riding. So that's that's that was my total focus at that period of time.
[00:05:15.190] - Big Rich Klein
Do you mind me asking when you graduated from high school?
[00:05:18.940] - Steve Nantz
Oh, gosh, that was 86, 1986.
[00:05:22.390] - Big Rich Klein
1986. OK, and then how soon after high school did you go into the military?
[00:05:28.420] - Steve Nantz
So I was in the military. I went in in late 88. So I was in eighty let's say 88, 89, now 89, 1991, 92. All right.
[00:05:45.190] - Big Rich Klein
And that Desert Storm, that was the going into the Middle East with the Iraqi situation, correct?
[00:05:54.610] - Steve Nantz
Yeah. Yeah, that's correct. In fact, you know, I was just I wasn't even 20, 21 years old. I was 20 years old at the time. And I remember our captain came on the radio on the aircraft carrier and said, you know, that we just declared war and that we're going to be the first the first people over there. And so that was a little bit scary for a young kid. But, you know, on an aircraft carrier, you're pretty safe.
[00:06:19.450] - Steve Nantz
You know, you're not really in harm's way. So it didn't turn out to be too too bad of a deal. War is always a bad deal. But as far as his you know, us on the ship, you know, it's just more like day to day stuff other than the only difference is you're loading bombs on the aircraft. So, OK, on.
[00:06:40.810] - Big Rich Klein
And how many years did you did you do the BMX and freestyle stuff?
[00:06:46.900] - Steve Nantz
Oh, I started that when I was young. I mean, probably. You know, grade school started riding bikes and and I've always I've always been very creative and I always like to build and work on things. And so I, you know, was constantly working on my bicycle and upgrading parts and, you know, and doing my research and finding the good stuff and saving my money. And, you know, that's just how I've always been my whole life.
[00:07:16.000] - Big Rich Klein
So did you grow up in right in Cheyenne, so more suburban city or was it more out in the country?
[00:07:25.430] - Steve Nantz
No, no. We were right in Cheyenne. Right in the city Okay. Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:30.160] - Big Rich Klein
And are your parents still there or are they still alive?
[00:07:35.140] - Steve Nantz
Both my parents are still alive and they are they are in the Greeley, Colorado area. Okay.
[00:07:41.130] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Excellent. What made you do the with the military choice. The Navy.
[00:07:48.500] - Steve Nantz
I knew I wanted to work on aircraft or airplanes for some reason, that's just something that I wanted to pursue. And I you know, I don't really know why I chose the Navy other than I knew I wanted to work on aircraft. And I thought it'd be pretty cool to be on the aircraft carrier. So.
[00:08:07.610] - Big Rich Klein
And what carrier or carriers did you were you on?
[00:08:12.620] - Steve Nantz
So I was on the the Constellation and then we moved to the independence. Okay.
[00:08:18.530] - Big Rich Klein
And the time that you were during the Iraqi Desert Storm. So day to day, you said it was loading bombs and maintenance of airplanes and things like that. But you guys, at that point, you guys were pretty far offshore.
[00:08:34.220] - Steve Nantz
Yes. Yeah, that is correct. I mean, when you're in the Navy, whether you're at war, or not at war. You do the same things every single day. You basically every day you act as if you're at war. And but when you really do go to war, you don't really the only differences are that you're loaded live ammunition. So, yeah, you know, we were when we were on the Constellation, well, on the Constellation or the independence, but we did go we did get pretty close to Iraq.
[00:09:06.650] - Steve Nantz
We actually went up into the strait and we did it at night and shot all the lights off. And because literally when you're going through the strait, you know, they could shoot from shore. I mean, they could literally take a rifle and shoot at the aircraft carrier. And so we we we went up into there and we were in there for a period of time. And actually that was the first time that an aircraft carrier has been up into the strait for.
[00:09:36.160] - Steve Nantz
You know, a number of years, so it's kind of a historical thing for the ship.
[00:09:40.960] - Big Rich Klein
OK, cool, that's cool. So then you're talking about San Diego and doing some wheeling there, the. How much time did you spend in San Diego or were you mostly on on ship at sea?
[00:09:56.770] - Steve Nantz
Well, I spent about three years in San Diego and, you know, we're not we don't live on the ship. Just when the ship deploys, we go out with the ship. So we're actually stationed we were stationed in Coronado Island. And so, you know, we had a lot of off time when we weren't deployed. I mean, we work five days a week, but, you know, we always had weekends off shore and things like that.
[00:10:19.840] - Steve Nantz
So, you know, it's kind of crazy. Lived in San Diego for, oh, gosh, at least six months. And, you know, it's always real hazy there. You can't really see a lot. And we had a huge storm blow through and the next morning got up and like, oh, look how there's mountain ranges all over the place. And so we're like, OK, well, we got the jeep. So then we just started exploring.
[00:10:42.250] - Steve Nantz
And so we started going to those mountain ranges and and exploring. And that's kind of really what got me into into four wheeling, so.
[00:10:52.550] - Big Rich Klein
Talk about those early years, what did you what were you driving and how was it built up and what did you do to it?
[00:11:00.020] - Steve Nantz
Well, like I say, when I was in the military, about another CJ5 and, you know, I had thirty fives and and, you know, no lockers or anything but three speed transmission, you know, manual transmission. But I tell you, that thing was the coolest jeep ever, you know, especially at that period of time. And we just had a blast. I mean we would just jump in that thing and go down to Mexico and go to the beach, go surfing and, you know, go up in the mountains.
[00:11:27.830] - Steve Nantz
And and we just just had a great time in that jeep. And that's that's really what brought the love of Jeep, the Jeep brand to me. You know, I just just we had such a good time with that. So, OK.
[00:11:41.980] - Big Rich Klein
Let's talk about after your military service, where did you where did you go up and what did you start doing?
[00:11:51.660] - Steve Nantz
So after I got out of the Navy, I went back to to Cheyenne and I went to Colorado, Colorado, Aerotec and I've got got my civilian AMPE license. And then I was then I moved to Fort Collins, Colorado, and was working on helicopters for a number of years. At that period of time, I was I joined the mile I'm sorry, the the Mountaineers Jeep club. And so we started, you know, that was a great club.
[00:12:24.690] - Steve Nantz
And I think it still is a great club. I mean, those guys go out at a minimum one time a month and a lot of times two times a month. And so, you know, we you know, during the summertime, we'd go up and do some trails around the Fort Collins area and then wintertime we do a lot of snow bashing and snow bashing is was was extremely fun. And, you know, we had guys like Rod Pepper was in the club.
[00:12:52.540] - Steve Nantz
You know, he's he's pretty famous. Yeah. And, you know, there was a couple guys in the club that that were pretty famous people and so just had a great time with that club.
[00:13:05.400] - Big Rich Klein
Cool. And when did you first start getting into competitive Off-Road?
[00:13:12.060] - Steve Nantz
So I went to Moab. And I had a YJ and I broke I think I broke the transfer case to thirty one transfer case, so I went to Moab off road and said, hey, you know, I broke my jeep and and well, apparently the mechanic was was on vacation. And so they said, well, you know, if you want to just use a hoist you can use a hoist and and fix your jeep. And so I, I said, OK, so I brought it in and politics apart and figured out what's wrong with it.
[00:13:46.000] - Steve Nantz
And we had to order parts. I was in Moab a couple of days and got the parts and before I left Moab, the owner of my life road is like, you know, you're really good. He's like, you know, would you be interested in a job? And I said I said, Yeah, I think so. You know, I was young, single and and I was a little a little burned out on work in the helicopters because there's there's very a lot of monotony in aviation.
[00:14:11.960] - Steve Nantz
You can't be creative at all. You know, you just do the same thing over and over and over. And so then I decided to move to Moab. And so I went home, literally went home, gave my two weeks notice, grabbed all my stuff. And I moved in the lab and I worked for Rick Sparks over there. Moab Road for. Probably at least five years, five or six years or so, and then during that period of time, that would have been late 90s and the first rock crawling event was 1998, the B.F. Goodrich, what they called the the rock crawling championship ring that was in Las Cruces, New Mexico.
[00:14:52.590] - Steve Nantz
Yeah. And so we went to that. I actually spotted for Kevin Hawkins at that event, OK, and and then it was just all over. I mean, I was like, I've got a compete. So and that's literally when I started was that next year we built a jeep at Moab off road, which was owned by Moab off road it was. And everybody called it Brownie at the time. It was a pretty, pretty popular jeep and then we started competing in that, so.
[00:15:21.330] - Big Rich Klein
So then that you started off at that Bob Hazel event there, yep, and then did you did you go to the Warren Nationals in Johnson Valley the next?
[00:15:34.320] - Steve Nantz
We did not. You did not I? Nope, I did not go to that one. And, you know, to be honest, I don't even know why I didn't go. I don't think I to be to be real honest, I don't think I even heard about it.
[00:15:45.930] - Big Rich Klein
So that's all in before the days of the Internet, really. I mean, it was the Internet was there, but so much of so many of us were not involved in it.
[00:15:55.770] - Steve Nantz
Right. Yep, I did. I did miss that event.
[00:15:58.150] - Big Rich Klein
OK, and with Sparks owning MOAB four by four and you starting to compete, then how did that transition happen from building, you know, the YJ to the other vehicles? Because I know that you've built some some pretty interesting rigs over the years. And I'd like to talk a bit about those.
[00:16:22.320] - Steve Nantz
Yes, so when I work for Rick, I see this back in that day, you know, nobody had Bugis except for Shannon Campbell, right. You know, and he had that Cheetos called Tiki. So basically, is that Fender Jeep that that was kind of all tubed out. And so, you know, as close to a bug as you could get back in those days. And so I decided to build a buggy. And, you know, my first buggy was pretty rough, but it was a single seat wide, but it actually was a toussie.
[00:16:51.960] - Steve Nantz
So as fighter jet style, there was a seat behind a seat and I called that one the centipede. It was a neon green little buggy. And that buggy was was so much fun. I remember going to the first event after building that buggy and Shannon was over there and everybody's over there checking it out. And because nobody had built a buggy and certainly not a single seat buggy, and so everybody was checking it out and and then all of a sudden, you know, within a couple of years, I mean, the buggy revolution started.
[00:17:25.830] - Steve Nantz
I mean, everybody was built buggies. So it was kind of cool, you know, to be in that period of time and just watching all the innovation. And, of course, the innovation is still happening today with these cars. Wow.
[00:17:38.460] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, it's crazy.
[00:17:40.300] - Steve Nantz
It is. Yeah.
[00:17:41.670] - Big Rich Klein
So I remember seeing the centipede for the first time and I, you know, I can see having the person behind you, but the idea that was to take somebody along, they couldn't they couldn't really help you spot from that position, could they.
[00:17:57.030] - Steve Nantz
No, no, no. You know, it's purely for my kids. I mean, at that at that period of time, I had I had, you know, a son and a daughter. And so is really purely for the kids. I mean, and back then we did we we were thinking about Spotter's right. We had no we had no idea. But yes. But that that was purely for that. And I just thought it'd be cool to build a small buggy, you know, narrow.
[00:18:20.970] - Steve Nantz
And and I had you know, I had a number of years in that car and just really had a blast. So.
[00:18:27.030] - Big Rich Klein
So let's talk about before the competitions and needing a two seater to have the kids in the back or having a kid with you when you were wheeling and talk about how you met Laura and where where that happened.
[00:18:44.640] - Steve Nantz
So when I started to work for Rick over at Moheb off road, Laura was well. So the other mechanic, the mechanic that was on vacation when I brought my jeep and fixed it, he came back and his wife was friends with Laura, my wife. And, you know, and she's like, oh, you need to come down to the shop and and so I can introduce you to this new guy. And so Laura came down and and we got introduced and then we, you know, started dating and and eventually we got married.
[00:19:14.380] - Steve Nantz
OK, so, OK, so you got set up by you got set up by by one of the the wives of another employee.
[00:19:23.610] - Steve Nantz
OK, cool. That's correct. That's awesome.
[00:19:26.550] - Big Rich Klein
So you guys lived in Moab, continued to live in Moab. And when did you when did you actually start the Moab outpost?
[00:19:37.270] - Steve Nantz
Well, so I you know, I was working for Rick and then for some reason we thought, well, we needed to make more money. I mean, you know, bar none. And so we decided to move to Phenix. And so we actually spent about three and a half years in Phenix. I worked for four wheelers supply in the fabrication shop, OK? And that was when Randy Ellis, he was running the shop and Rob Bonney was in the shop and and Ian was there.
[00:20:07.660] - Steve Nantz
And, you know, that shot I mean, that shot bread, really good fabricators and did. And so I was there during, you know, for three and a half years during that period of time. And I tell you, those guys taught me so much and, you know, and then and then we decided to come back to Moab and someone came back to Moab. Moab off road was kind of at its last, you know, the last days because Rick was he wanted to move.
[00:20:37.750] - Steve Nantz
And so he was just kind of really shutting it down. So I went back to Moab and I was actually working for Chip over a chip strapped tire as their mechanic. And then I had another guy approach me and say, hey, let's open up a four wheel drive shop. So we partnered up and opened up Moab for about four outpost. And and that was, you know, that was a good run. I mean, six years we ran that store and it was very successful.
[00:21:04.210] - Steve Nantz
In fact, to this day, sometimes I wonder why I shut it down, you know, because it was it was a successful business. And but, you know, all in all, I just got burned out on my web. I mean, I knew every crack. I knew every rock. I knew every ledge. And it got to you know, I start getting to the point where I didn't want to go four wheeling because I kind of lost the excitement.
[00:21:27.370] - Steve Nantz
And so that's when we decided to move to Sand Hollow. So I started this new business and and it's really rejuvenated me and, you know, brought the fund back so. Well, that's good.
[00:21:39.010] - Big Rich Klein
That's good. I did want to know, you know, the how that the two Segs worked. So let's talk about those days that at the outpost know. Let's even talk about earlier than that. Let's go back to four wheelers supply. Now, that was in in Phenix. And like you said, it was it really was a, you know, a place that that did a lot of fabrication with Randy and, you know, like you were saying and what was what was it like working with those guys?
[00:22:13.480] - Big Rich Klein
Because I know those guys are kind of crazy.
[00:22:16.390] - Steve Nantz
They are all crazy. I mean, and I tell you, we had a blast because we go camping on the weekends and, you know, they all get drunk, I you know, I never was really a big drinker, but, you know, I'd get I'd get buzzed or whatever, but, you know, we'd go out and just have a blast and go wheeling it. And, you know, it was just it was really a fun time in our life.
[00:22:38.400] - Steve Nantz
I mean, they're great guys. They're great guys. And working for Randy and working with Rob and and Ian, you know, they're all such good fabricators. They they taught me so much and they were all very patient, you know. I mean, I had the basics down, but I was it still was not at their level at that point in time in my life. But they they got me up to that level and and, you know, gave me a good push towards what I'm doing today, you know, as far as the creativity and and all the things that we need to have for building these buggies.
[00:23:16.360] - Big Rich Klein
So let's talk then about Moab outpost. You moved back to Moab and you start the outpost. What was it like jumping in to a business like that in what was then the Mecca of off roading?
[00:23:32.890] - Steve Nantz
Right. You know, it was it was scary for me because I'd never owned a business. And, you know, and it's still scary for me today, even after all these years of owning the business, because, you know, all the the pressure is on you, you know, as a business owner. But, you know, it was back then Moab was not as busy as it is now. So it was a struggle back then. Luckily, I had.
[00:24:01.400] - Steve Nantz
You know, learned to fabricate. You know, working with with Randy and and Rob, Bonnie and those guys, so I was able to come into Moab, we opened the business and I was able to build bumpers and swing away tire tracks and rocket guards and, you know, enough stuff to keep us busy. It took a few years for Moab to really kick off probably six or so about about six years after we opened the store in Moab is when Moab really started getting busy.
[00:24:35.190] - Steve Nantz
And and then from that point on, it was pretty good. Still a very seasonal town. You know, you have six to eight months to make a living for the year, but you can bet it's very lucrative, you know, the six to eight months. And so as long as you, you know, saved your money and knew that when you went into winter, you know, you needed that. And you could certainly survive in Moab, Shelley and I wintered in Moab for almost 90 days.
[00:25:07.050] - Steve Nantz
We stayed at Danny Grimes's place, by the way. He was a great roommate because he was never home. And but it was it was awesome being there in the winter. But, yeah, that the town itself pretty much shuts down. Everybody says closed for remodeling will open again, you know, in like March or, you know, whatever. But, you know, people weren't really. Remodeling because there was never anybody working on the places they had to shut down because there was no business.
[00:25:39.200] - Steve Nantz
Right, right, right. Yeah, you know, I always kind of hope that I'd get to the point where we could just shut down in the winter and go vacation. But we were just constantly, you know, busy with bills and things in the wintertime. So so unfortunately, we never got to do that in our business. But yes, a lot of the restaurants and things like that, Mowad, they just shut down. And so as a local there, you know, in the wintertime, it's nice in the fact that you don't have, you know, a bunch of people running around.
[00:26:05.450] - Steve Nantz
I mean, you go in the grocery store and get right up to the checkout counter and things like that. But you do also lose out on some of the good restaurants and things like that during wintertime.
[00:26:14.810] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I can remember the the last day of that season that we were there and Milt's was they had a bake sale on their hamburgers and they were like, you know, two for one or three for one or something like that. It was crazy because, you know, they were just trying to get rid of all the meat that they had stored or their supplies so that they could sell out and and take off. And it was right. It was probably the best burgers I'd ever eaten.
[00:26:43.130] - Big Rich Klein
There was that day or the two days where they had those that sale trying to get rid of everything.
[00:26:48.860] - Steve Nantz
Yeah, Miltos Milt's is a great place. I mean, I we when we go to my we still go to meals.
[00:26:53.950] - Big Rich Klein
Same here. So then why you were there. You had. I remember a lot of different mechanics that you had or fabricators, and a lot of those guys have moved on to other, you know, their own businesses. I know you guys in seasonally, you know, like just for Easter and stuff. And, you know, was that always a handful trying to to organize all that?
[00:27:20.460] - Steve Nantz
The logistics of Geeves Safari is just absolutely insane, you know, because, I mean, we had literally have to order a hundred thousand dollars worth of inventory for for a period of seven, seven to nine days. And so, you know, several months before Jeep Safari, we would start the process. In fact, in January usually is when we had to start the process of ordering the stuff, because a lot of times if we had way too long and then we would place a huge order with something, they didn't have the inventory.
[00:27:48.960] - Steve Nantz
And so we had have to start in the middle of winter and say, hey, look, you know, we're going to order this much from you. So you need to make sure that you have it. And so so basically, logistically, it was very difficult to get all the parts in that we needed. But and then, you know, as far as the the staff, you know, I always had probably between two and four mechanics, you know, at all times.
[00:28:13.830] - Steve Nantz
And but during jeeps for we'd get up to seven, eight, 10 mechanics. And so luckily I had people, you know, that would call me before Jeeps and say, hey, man, you need me this year. And I'd be happy and I'd be like, yes, please. So and they got paid well. I mean, we would we would in a seven day period, we would they would get paid. Oh, it was like over a hundred.
[00:28:42.530] - Steve Nantz
Over 100 hours, I mean, it was probably closer to 150 hours that they get paid and it all most of it would all be overtime. So it was it was very good for the people that came down to help and very good for my full time employees. But, you know, it's tough. You come into work at seven o'clock in the morning and you don't leave until 2:00, three o'clock. That next morning, because you're home, everybody's there to feel they're not there to wait for their car to get done.
[00:29:14.600] - Steve Nantz
No, no, no. And that's how we built our reputation in Moab, was that, you know, if a Jeep came in a buggy or whatever came in that day, if we had the parts, they were fixed that day. They were ready for their trail ride that next morning. Because I understand the importance of that. You know, in the fact that, you know, the people come to Moab, they register for the trails and they want to be out there.
[00:29:36.830] - Steve Nantz
All right. And they don't want to be broke down. And so we we really, really strived to make sure that, you know, if we had the parts every car got done that day and in that car, they could pick it up the next morning and they're ready for their trail ride. So and we would do probably oh, I don't know how many would do per day. I mean, I'd probably run for 50 50 jeeps through there a day.
[00:30:05.150] - Steve Nantz
And so, you know, during Safari, we're there until two or three o'clock in the morning, every morning. And, you know, we sleep for hours, get up, do it again and tell you it's almost you know, my guys are almost crying beauty by the end of the week, you know, six days of doing that is is really tough. I mean, it's really hard. And but, you know, I always had a good crew and I had good, good people to help and and we got it done somehow.
[00:30:32.660] - Big Rich Klein
So you saved me twice. Yeah, once. The first time, I think was when you came up to Area BFE, I was in that playground and had split the radiator. Yeah, yeah. And I was standing up there and I when it happened, I looked in both directions from where I was at and I could see the parking lot area BFE and I could see, you know, downtown Moab. And I was like, OK. Let's see if I have, you know, enough phone service and I got hold of you and you were like, well, let me see if I can find a radiator first.
[00:31:08.400] - Big Rich Klein
And then all of a sudden you found the radiator and you said, OK, you know, I'll be there. And I'm like, well, oh, OK. Because I figured, you know, then I had to call somebody who was trying to get hold of others to come get the parts from you. But you drove up and actually you wheeled up and then we got that radiator replaced and then we got down the hill and I was like, you know, Shelley was like, OK, what do I owe you?
[00:31:35.910] - Big Rich Klein
And you just come by the shop tomorrow and we'll settle it then. And she was like, what are we going to. Oh, and I said, I have no idea. But you know what? It doesn't matter. And then you you treated us so fantastic. Get with that one that I was shocked and, you know, was it was it was amazing. You really helped me out of a pinch on that one. And then when I blew the locker, my LRB seal, I was up in the at the top of.
[00:32:09.870] - Big Rich Klein
Moab rim at the Overlook. And I said, I called you in and I said, are you busy yet? And he goes, and you said, No, I have a rack open. If you get down here, you know, we'll drive you right in. And I was on a ride with the group and I said, all right, I've got a blown locker, I'm leaving. And I was down the trail in like ten minutes, I think passing people coming up and pulled in there and got in there before anybody else.
[00:32:38.640] - Big Rich Klein
And you guys were able to fix that locker and just a couple of hours. And luckily, it was, you know, during that time, I think it was Erbe had their trailer set up, too. So they had parts and stuff. So that was that was really nice to talk about, about that, how you started the vendor show and everything out there separately from, of course, what Redrock was doing.
[00:33:04.380] - Steve Nantz
Well, you know, the thing about the vendor show, the actual vendors show a Jeep safari is if you don't register soon enough, you won't get a spot out there. And so, unfortunately, some of these vendors would not register. And then at the last minute, you know, they'd call and, hey, you know, do you have space to see your shop? And I as long as they were on my property at the shop, I never charged any of the vendors anything to set up.
[00:33:30.820] - Steve Nantz
So so more and more vendors wanted to come back and just set it up, set up at the shop. And and so it worked out really nice for us because that was, you know, parts that we didn't have to inventory during Safari. Right. The vendors were there. They would bring parts. And if we needed the parts, we'd literally just go out to their booths, be by the park and and fix the vehicle that needed it.
[00:33:54.310] - Steve Nantz
So it it actually worked out good for everybody to have vendors that are at our store.
[00:34:00.570] - Big Rich Klein
So, yeah, because, you know, the the Red Rock, four wheelers, their vendors show, you know, just being that was it Thursday and Friday. Correct. On Friday, you know, there you could buy a product from them. You'd have to find them somewhere else, you know, and most of them were trail wheeling. Oh, absolutely. You know, and you'd have to find them at their condo to try to, you know, maybe if they had parts or not.
[00:34:28.830] - Big Rich Klein
So it was great for for. Businesses, vendors to get in with you so that everybody knew where they were at and like you said, they could bring inventory and, you know, they could manage during the day while the rest of the crew went out and wheeled. And, you know, I think it worked out really well.
[00:34:49.030] - Steve Nantz
Yeah. You know, some of those vendors would actually just give me the keys to their trailer and then show me where everything was in the trailer. And they said, just write it down, you know, because, you know, they're out there to have fun, too. And as a vendor far, you want to be out on the trail because that's where you're going to sell your product. Yeah. You know, showing your product off and talking to people on the trails and stuff.
[00:35:08.380] - Steve Nantz
So it's it's so important for those guys to be out there. So a lot of times that you give me the key to the trailer or they would just bring a bunch of product in to our store and say, OK, you know, we we had inventory at all. We put it all make a display in the store and then at the end of Jeeps Fari, we are just paying for what we sold, you know, what you know, on the product that we wanted to keep.
[00:35:29.260] - Steve Nantz
And so it just worked out good for everybody, you know, allowed the vendors to go out and have some fun. And and we were able to, you know, keep people on the trails.
[00:35:38.420] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. And I guess one of the things that I heard that might have precipitated the whole, you know, selling of or closing down of more of outpost and then, you know, moving on to hurricane hurricane and and starting seeing hollow was all the hotels were trying to buy up any piece of property that they could fit on. And that's one of the things I think is starting to really ruin Moab. Not that I that I agree, you know, and I don't and I don't mean that in a bad way that, you know, selling to those those businesses that are trying to move into Moab is a bad thing.
[00:36:22.150] - Big Rich Klein
I think that everybody should take advantage of. Any time somebody comes up and says, you know, here's some cash, I need your property. Right. I don't blame anybody for taking it. But that that is really change the the out the landscape of MOAB.
[00:36:40.840] - Steve Nantz
It has and, you know, and that was kind of the scenario with us. Well, actually, a couple of years before we actually decided to sell, you know, we I was I was so burned out on safari, I, I just every year I was like, I can't do another one. I can't do it, you know. And you know the feeling. Yes. But and so, you know, these hotel chains, they were just offering ridiculous amounts of money.
[00:37:06.850] - Steve Nantz
And so it just worked out to where we are, just like, you know, we're going to do this and we did it. But, you know, in respect to what you're saying, you know, Moab, you know, with all these hotels coming to Moab and and I mean, MOAB has changed in the past four years. You know, five years changed immensely. Yes. You know, I mean, unfortunately, and I hate to say it, but unfortunately, the you know, the city council, if they could, with the swipe of a pen cut off all off roading in Moab, they would it would they would take it would take them two seconds to do it, you know, because they are so against it.
[00:37:44.980] - Steve Nantz
And I could see that coming for probably six, seven years. And so at the time when we were thinking about selling, you know, that was something that was, you know, help us determine. Just go ahead and sell. Right. Unfortunately, you know, because I hate to say it, but one day, you know, Moab may be shut down. I mean, it might be you had a motorized recreation. I agree. I don't know why they killed, why they want to cater to the non motorized groups, because most of those most of those groups do not really spend money.
[00:38:23.000] - Steve Nantz
They don't they go off roaders, spend a ton of money in the community. And absolutely, you know, most of the most of those hotels are filled with tourists that are just there to maybe experience the river or experience mountain biking or even still, you know, I mean, the off roaders are the ones that fill the hotels. You know, they fill the condos. Right. You know, all those people camped around the river, you know, or, you know, up in the in the open areas, you know, those are the same people that forage the grocery store.
[00:39:02.860] - Steve Nantz
That's the that's the craziest stuff I've ever seen during Safari's. You know, the way these river rats are, you know, rock hounds or whatever you want to call them, you know, the rock climbers and the mountain bikers, you know, you can tell they're look as opposed to an off roader. And so many of those just forage the grocery store. And what I mean is they'll go grab a bag of chips or they'll go in. And I saw a guy break off all the stems on the mushrooms and and buy just a mushroom heads and leave the stems.
[00:39:40.810] - Steve Nantz
Oh, wow. Yeah.
[00:39:42.110] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. And he did it to probably 50, 60 of the mushrooms. And I was just amazed. I had a guy there was a guy standing there with his. You know, I could tell he was a river rat and they would standing around talking about five or six different people, and he had a bag of chips that he was passing around to everybody. And I walked by and I looked and I looked at him with, you know, contempt in my eyes, I guess.
[00:40:06.660] - Big Rich Klein
And he was like, hey, you want some? And I was like, no, I'll buy some first, you know? But they just sit there and eat and then don't even purchase, you know, what they ate.
[00:40:20.760] - Steve Nantz
Yeah. You know. Well, you know. Are you going to cancel once? Yeah, it's I don't understand what the city council wants, to be honest. I mean, I, I think they want it to be they want people to be bused in, go in their hotel rooms and then during the day go to the state parks and then be bused back to the hotel rooms and go in their hotel rooms. I think that's what the city council wants.
[00:40:45.840] - Steve Nantz
And and it's a shame because life is a beautiful place and it's a you know, it's it really is the Mecca for Wheeling. I mean, it's just so beautiful out there. And so but, you know, the BLM is still pretty good. You know, they fight against it. And, you know, the crazy thing to me is a lot of the businesses, they do not fight against the city council. Right. You know, I mean, if I was a business in town, a restaurant owner or a hotel guy or, you know, whatever, I would be like, no, we want off roaders.
[00:41:14.190] - Steve Nantz
We want these guys here because that's what brings economy into Moab. And, you know, and it just it just surprises me on how many businesses would be right there with the city council to shut it all down if they could. Yeah. And it's just crazy to me, you know, I agree.
[00:41:32.640] - Big Rich Klein
I remember one time Shelley and I walked in and I normally don't name businesses in this kind of a situation, but I will. And we went into the bistro well and bistro, you know, there in that little park area right behind Zakes. Right. And we had been wheeling. I don't remember what we did, we did it trail ride with somebody and we thought, well, let's go try this place, and everybody else seemed to be really packed and they weren't.
[00:42:03.520] - Big Rich Klein
And so we parked there. There's like three or four cars. We we walk in and. The the lady walks over to us and looks at us, looks us up and down and says, Can I help you? And I said, Yeah, we'd like a table for two. She looks around and she looks back at us and she goes, it's going to be about an hour and a half. Now, there was like two people, two groups of people sitting in that restaurant.
[00:42:31.130] - Big Rich Klein
Nobody else was in their right. And I was like, you just judged us on how we're dressed, on whether or not you want us in your in your restaurant. And I was absolutely amazed. I said, OK, great, thank you for, you know, considering us. And we turned around and walked out. And ever since then I've told everybody that's motorized recreation, you know. Right. That place doesn't want. Anybody, unless you're dressed to the nines or something, I don't know what it is.
[00:43:02.700] - Big Rich Klein
Maybe she saw us drive in in the beat up, clapped out, you know, Cherokee. But, you know, we had enough cash to eat there.
[00:43:10.510] - Steve Nantz
Yeah, I mean, that would have been a two hundred dollar, you know, ticket.
[00:43:14.310] - Big Rich Klein
Exactly. And they turned us away.
[00:43:16.950] - Steve Nantz
And that's what I don't understand about these businesses. That's what they're trying to do, is just turn people away. And it makes no sense to me. You know, that's not a good thing to do as a business. But, you know, and back to to people living, you know, river rats and things like that. You know, I actually had a mechanic one time that was a great mechanic. And he worked for me probably six, seven, eight months.
[00:43:39.300] - Steve Nantz
And I found out he was living in a cave. Oh, really? Yeah, he was. He actually found a cave out there and was living in a cave. Wow. But he but he loved it. He was a guy that just loved the camp and and and he was a great guy. But, you know, he was one of those guys that wouldn't spend money if he didn't have to. But, you know, I love the guy.
[00:43:59.010] - Steve Nantz
And unfortunately, he passed away in a rock climbing accident. You know, he's a big rock climber. And but that just just reminded me of him when you were talking about that.
[00:44:10.710] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I know that it's really hard to get everybody I talked to that owns businesses there. They have a really difficult time keeping employees. And it's not because the work is hard or they don't pay well. It's because people are there to recreate. And so every two weeks, you know, they go through employees because the employee works for two weeks, gets a paycheck. Right. Heads out to the river. The you know, where what are doing, whatever it is they they're doing there.
[00:44:40.410] - Big Rich Klein
And then when they run out of money, they go get a job somewhere else, you know, because there's so many places looking. I mean, saw eighteen dollars an hour to start at McDonald's in Moab.
[00:44:51.390] - Steve Nantz
Yeah. That's pretty crazy. Yeah.
[00:44:53.940] - Big Rich Klein
You know, anybody that's complaining about not getting, you know, fifteen dollars an hour in downtown Detroit, in Amoa, in a McDonald's all why don't you just move to to Moab, get 18. Mm. And a lot better you don't get shot at.
[00:45:10.380] - Steve Nantz
That is true. You know, with that being said, I had to pay my employees do that because I literally all my employees I had to import. Right. You know, I mean, I tried a couple locals and they never worked out. For some reason, the Moab locals don't want to work, but so I would always have to pay my guys good and import them for other states and then just cross your fingers that they would stay with me.
[00:45:34.740] - Steve Nantz
And most of my employees stayed with me for, you know, quite, quite a long time. You know, every once in a while you'd get one that wouldn't stay very long. But for the most part, we had a good crew over the whole time we were there. Right.
[00:45:49.200] - Big Rich Klein
So then you move to sand hollow and started sand hollow off road. Hmm. And that business is kind of transitioned from when you first got there to what you're doing now. Is that it? I know that you. I know that you really like the Fabin and. More so than the Bolton and.
[00:46:16.330] - Steve Nantz
Yeah, I mean, when you fabricate, you get to be creative and you have to think about things, you know, and not just about the thing that you're working on, but the whole picture, you got to think about the whole buggie, you know, how is this going to affect that? And, you know, in the end, how is it all going to work together? So that's what I do really enjoy. But, you know, I mean, on a business standpoint, obviously, we still do repair work because we you know, that's that's easy cash flow and we still have people to come out and break and they need that repair work done.
[00:46:48.280] - Steve Nantz
So but here, compared to Moab, Moab, we did almost all type work. We did, you know, 90 percent Jeep work or repair work and 10 percent buggy built. And here it's completely opposite. And it was really a shock to me because when we opened Sanho off road, I ordered a bunch of inventory, you know, the Jeep inventory and stuff that we would have in Moab. I ordered all that and I had a bunch of stuff in the showroom and none of us sold.
[00:47:16.680] - Steve Nantz
And so here it was just completely opposite. You know, now we're doing 90 percent buggie builds in 10 percent repairs and which is fine with me, you know, because that is what I enjoy doing. But the repair work, I think Sanaullah will be the next MOAB eventually. I agree. Yeah. And so and I could see that also when we and that was another factor when we were thinking about selling the property in Moab was, you know, I knew I could see sand hollow and I could see that, you know, every year we come out here on vacation and get just a little busier and busier.
[00:47:55.840] - Steve Nantz
And even in the four years that I've been here, it is just exploded. I mean, there there are so many people that come out here now, you know, the people that used to go to Moab. And, you know, they're burned out just like I was, they, you know, these people, they knew every trail in Moab, they knew every rock, they knew everything. And so now they're coming out here. And Sand Hollow is just such a new and incredible area.
[00:48:25.330] - Steve Nantz
So I think eventually, you know, I'm crossing my fingers, but I think eventually the business will get to the point where we're doing a lot of Bugis and then we're doing a lot of repair work.
[00:48:35.030] - Big Rich Klein
So, yeah, I agree especially is as more of the groups, you know, in Moab you have Easter, but then you had, you know, the the Zouk melt or whatever they called it, you know, and then you had the Toyota and the Bronco runs. And, you know, Moab was always that place where those, you know, specific vehicle type runs or clubs would would come. And I think sand hollows becoming that way more and more and more as well.
[00:49:07.060] - Steve Nantz
It is even on a court, on a corporate aspect. Some of the big and I won't name any names, but but several of the big. Companies that produce vehicles are now doing all they're testing out here and doing all the stuff out here where they used to for years and years and years, would go to Moab and do it. But unfortunately, MOAB has gotten unfriendly to these people. And so now they've they've decided to come up here and start doing all their stuff in this area.
[00:49:33.940] - Steve Nantz
So, you know, it's it's literally just a matter of time until. Until this is the next Moab, I mean, it is so, yeah, I agree, I absolutely agree. And I and I and I'm glad that there is another place and the BLM in that area seems to be easier to work with in State Park. Definitely is. So that's you know, that's good to see. So what's in the future for for Steve and and Hollow off road?
[00:50:04.210] - Steve Nantz
Well, you know, I want to keep competing, and that's just something that I enjoy. So I'm in the process. Unfortunately, I usually build a vehicle before I sell a vehicle. But this my last rock buggy, I got a pretty good offer, honest. I sold it. And so I've been without a vehicle for about a year now and I've got all the parts, but no time. That's the problem. But I, I am going to start putting this car together.
[00:50:27.910] - Steve Nantz
I will have it done by here. And, you know, I want to keep competing and I want to just keep pushing this business. I'm not ready to get out of it yet. I mean, I enjoy what I do. And, you know, I enjoy the area. You know, all the fun has come back to me since we moved here to San 4Low. And so I'm rejuvenated and excited. And we're just going to keep pushing forward, you know, with everything that we're doing.
[00:50:53.470] - Steve Nantz
[00:50:54.730] - Big Rich Klein
And you're are you still in the same building there or plan on being in that building? Are you going to do something else?
[00:51:03.040] - Steve Nantz
No, we unfortunately, the the good building that we were in that was right by sand hollow got sold and we got kicked out of it. And so now we're in a temporary shop. I've got a three year lease in the shop. But really, ultimately, what I want to do is get a piece of property somewhere on Sand, Hollow Road or maybe State Street and put up my own building. So that's that's what we're pursuing right now.
[00:51:26.660] - Big Rich Klein
And that makes sense. It makes sense because that way you can control your own destiny.
[00:51:31.690] - Steve Nantz
Absolutely. And then, you know, you know, you're building equity and you're not throwing money away with rent.
[00:51:36.130] - Big Rich Klein
Correct. And God, I can't believe so many people don't understand that. Yeah. And I know it's tough when you're just starting out in a business to be able to roll enough cash out or, you know, finance, you know, a building and property and all that. But it makes such a big difference.
[00:51:55.360] - Steve Nantz
It's huge. I mean, when it when a time when the time comes to retire, most businesses aren't worth a whole lot of money. And but where you're going to make your money is in your real estate. And so anybody out there that is thinking about, you know, doing a small business, I would highly suggest investing in your property, buy some property, put up the building, keep it nice, and then down the road, when you're ready to retire, that building is going to be worth something.
[00:52:23.590] - Big Rich Klein
Right. And especially if you can keep it so that the building can be multiple use. Yeah. So it's not just, you know, like. A restaurant or a car dealership, you know, car dealerships can be turned into automotive repair facilities, but typically they have these huge showrooms that, you know, that don't do any good for most businesses. But, you know, you can drive around and see all these businesses that that have closed and what kind of facility that they had and that aren't selling.
[00:52:55.230] - Big Rich Klein
I mean, I wouldn't want to be in commercial real estate right now, especially in office space. Right, you know, after this covid thing, everybody's working from home and office spaces, you know, companies are just saying, you know, hey, is a lot cheaper. Yeah, yeah, so did did covid slow you down?
[00:53:13.620] - Steve Nantz
No, no, we had so went covid hit. We probably had a year's worth of work as far as just Buggie builds. Wow. And so, of course, the federal government deemed automotive repair as a essential business, essential business. So we just kept working and and thank goodness I had all the parts that I needed. And, you know, so we were able to just work through the whole thing. I mean, it didn't affect us at all until recently and until probably the last couple of months after, you know, since covid, it's hard to get parts now because a lot of the big manufacturing companies did have to shut down.
[00:53:58.680] - Steve Nantz
And so now everybody's, you know, struggling to get, you know, various parts. And it's not the manufacturers fault. You know, they had to shut down and that's just how it is.
[00:54:09.900] - Big Rich Klein
Or somewhere along in their supply chain, somebody had to shut. Yes.
[00:54:13.620] - Steve Nantz
Yeah, exactly. Right. Right. So, you know, for instance, I ordered some third members not too long ago and it took a couple of months to get them. And, you know, Axle Housing's two and a half months where, you know, before covid, you could order that stuff. And it was probably maybe a three week period. So, you know, big difference in time. Right.
[00:54:33.960] - Big Rich Klein
And you just have to build that in when you talk to your customers. Now, like you said, do the work that you had scheduled, you had the parts for and now you're getting into those the newer scheduled vehicles and you don't necessarily have all the parts on the shelf.
[00:54:49.470] - Steve Nantz
Yeah, we're still we're still set pretty good. I've still got I still have three cars to build. Including my car, so three cars total, which which I'm doing pretty good on parts with those cars and then that the jobs that I'm bringing in now, I'm just telling the customers, hey, look, it's going to take two to three months to get all the parts we need to start your car. But my schedule is booked out three to four months right now anyhow.
[00:55:15.010] - Steve Nantz
So it's all going to flow together and be just fine. Good. Excellent.
[00:55:20.470] - Big Rich Klein
So then sandy, hollow, sand, hollow off road and Steve Nance and the Nancies are going to be a solid thing in the future, then.
[00:55:32.750] - Steve Nantz
We will we'll be here.
[00:55:34.550] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome. So is there anything that we haven't talked about that you would like to to discuss or share with the people any stories from those early days of rock crawling that. That stick in your mind or you know that that you'd like to share?
[00:55:56.450] - Steve Nantz
Well, I mean, there's oh, there's so many stories and so many memories, you know, I mean, back, you know, when we first started with, you know, building our first jeep for the first, you know, in the early 2000s, you know, we we built two vendors and did things that nobody else was doing. And now you look at all these companies. Right. And various companies like that doing to vendors, you know, so, you know, it's really neat to see the people be innovative and it's really neat to see the sport grow.
[00:56:26.600] - Steve Nantz
And as far as, you know, growing in numbers and as far as technology, there's just I mean, so many so many neat memories being there from the beginning until now. You know, obviously, I can't tell you all of the stuff, but there's there's just a lot of neat stuff there.
[00:56:48.320] - Big Rich Klein
So one question I have is I have another Cherokee that we're in the process of building or have been for a couple of years. And it looks like I'm going to be getting it back from the motor swap here pretty soon. And I'm looking for the same kind of bumpers that you made those really low profile. S.J Bumpurs, is that something that you still have all the prints and can do or do I need to go to somebody else?
[00:57:20.680] - Steve Nantz
No, I do. I have all those. I have all those drawings. We haven't built those in a number of years. But I do have the drawings and I do still have the capability of duplicating those exact Bumpurs.
[00:57:32.200] - Big Rich Klein
Cool, because I'll be honest, those are the sweetest bumpers out there.
[00:57:40.330] - Steve Nantz
They're pretty good.
[00:57:41.140] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, they blend into those is phenomenal.
[00:57:45.460] - Steve Nantz
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I had a business partner, Andy Immer, who was actually went to engineering school and things like that, and he designed a lot of our product line and those bumpers were outstanding. Yeah.
[00:57:59.890] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. That's awesome. Good. Because I'm glad I can get another set because I didn't want to have to cut my the old black and red in the 92 up to to put those parts back over onto the Ninety-eight so soon as I'm going to have to get call. Yep. And let you know that you know that I'm going to need them here shortly. Awesome.
[00:58:21.010] - Steve Nantz
[00:58:21.970] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Well, Steve, I want to say thank you for coming on board with conversations with Big Rich and sharing your history and some of your insight on Off Road. And, you know, it's it's been a pleasure. And I want to say thank you for the friendship that you that we've had over the years, especially probably the last 15 or 16 years.
[00:58:42.530] - Steve Nantz
So. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I you know, I'm glad that that we've met and I'm glad that we've got this wonderful Four-Wheel Drive family that we have. And I absolutely love you and Shelley. And, you know, I hope the best for you.
[00:58:56.710] - Big Rich Klein
Well, we hope the best for you, too. And thank you very much.
[00:59:00.620] - Steve Nantz
OK, thank you. All right. Bye bye. All right.
[00:59:04.120] - Big Rich Klein
If you enjoy these podcasts, please give us a rating, share some feedback with us via Facebook or Instagram and share our link among your friends who might be like minded. Well, that brings this episode to an end. You enjoyed it. We'll catch you next week with conversations with Big Rich. Thank you very much.