Conversations with Big Rich
Hear conversations with the legacy stars of rockcrawling and off-road. Big Rich interviews the leaders in rock sports.
Conversations with Big Rich
Episode 235 features two-for-one, George and Lora Leyner
Two-for-one this week, George and Lora Leyner are bumbling along the rockcrawling trail. With challenges and trials getting them to the support and friendship they didn’t even know they needed. Join us for a fun conversation with a great couple. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
8:48 – Gone in 60 seconds
11:45 –I had two instructors who really cared about their students, they made an impact on me.
16:24 – when we met we both said, I’m not looking for anything serious
21:10 – I had never been rockcrawling before, it’s so much fun, I rarely get out of the passenger seat
24:43 – my buddies pitched in and bought me a chassis to build as a divorce present
29:06 – The buggy did a lot better than I was expecting since I am not a professional buggy builder
33:25 – we decided it was time to live our lives and follow dreams and just enjoy life
39:10 – We take extra care of making sure I can see where she’s at; it was a freak accident
Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
All Automotive with Matt ClawsonAutomotive related topics. Anything from owning an repair facility to racing. Anything...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
[00:00:00.200] -
Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.
[00:00:46.570] -
Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two, Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread victoriously.
[00:01:13.030] -
Have you seen 4Low magazine yet? 4low magazine is a high-quality, well-written, four-wheel drive-focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4LOW is the magazine for you. 4LOW cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4LOW magazine.com to order your subscription today.
[00:01:40.080] - Big Rich Klein
On this week's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I'll be speaking with a couple who are enjoying life together. One of those couples that are stronger and better together than apart. Rockcrawler's George and Lora Leyner. George and Lora, it's great to have you guys on the podcast. I'm really looking forward to finding out your guys's history, not only individually as you grew up, but also together and how you guys got into rock crawling. This will be fun.
[00:02:12.210] - George Leyner
Hello. Hi. Glad to be here.
[00:02:14.300] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, okay. Okay, so let's get started with George, where were you born and raised?
[00:02:24.160] - George Leyner
I was born and raised in Boulder, Colorado.
[00:02:27.590] - Big Rich Klein
Wow, another one. Okay. I I just interviewed Michael Brassanini, and that's where he was born.
[00:02:38.570] - George Leyner
I didn't realize Brassanini was born in Boulder. I knew he was from Colorado, though.
[00:02:43.090] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, he was born in Boulder and then grew up in mostly an Island Park area or the Southeast, Idaho there. Okay. Lora, how about yourself? Where were you born and raised?
[00:02:57.720] - Lora Leyner
I was born in California, but I've lived a little bit of everywhere. My mom was in the military for 24 years, so I bounced around with her a lot.
[00:03:08.240] - Big Rich Klein
Military brat.
[00:03:08.580] - Lora Leyner
I consider Colorado home, no. That's probably where I've spent most of my life and the place I've enjoyed the most. Excellent. Aside from Utah now.
[00:03:19.760] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, Shelley was a military brat. She was born in Germany, but was all over the place until high school because of her dad jumping around. Okay, so anyway, what was it like, George, growing up in Boulder for you, and how long were you in Boulder?
[00:03:46.970] - George Leyner
I was in Boulder until after graduating high school, '87. Most of my childhood, we lived in the mountains outside of Boulder. Most of my childhood was chopping firewood and taking care of the horses and riding motorcycles around the trails up there. Don't forget your BMX. I got into BMX racing, probably about the age of nine or 10. I did that competitively until I was 15, 16.
[00:04:19.170] - Big Rich Klein
Nice. Did you travel a lot or was it all there on the East slope?
[00:04:24.070] - George Leyner
I did get to travel a lot. I was very fortunate. My mom actually worked at United, so we got flight benefits. So made it easy for me to fly to national races across the country. I got to go to places like Florida and Pittsburgh and Ohio and California for national races.
[00:04:46.020] - Big Rich Klein
Wow, that's awesome. That's pretty good. And was BMX your sport or did you play any school sports?
[00:04:54.090] - George Leyner
I didn't play any school sports. I was in marching band, believe it or not. I was a band geek for most of my- I wouldn't have guessed that in a thousand years.
[00:05:05.560] - Lora Leyner
I wouldn't have guessed that I'd marry a band geek.
[00:05:07.970] - Big Rich Klein
One summer at Band Camp.
[00:05:12.310] - George Leyner
Yeah, I did several summers at Band Camp, I was in marching band all throughout my high school years.
[00:05:19.440] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. Okay. What instrument?
[00:05:22.370] - George Leyner
I played trombone and tuba.
[00:05:24.790] - Big Rich Klein
Okay.
[00:05:26.280] - George Leyner
All right. I was full out of that hair.
[00:05:27.990] - Big Rich Klein
At least you didn't say flute.
[00:05:29.980] - George Leyner
No, that was my sister.
[00:05:32.730] - Big Rich Klein
That was your sister. Okay, no comments. Lora, how about yourself? Bouncing around, was that difficult to assimilate into the different communities that you had to live in?
[00:05:51.120] - Lora Leyner
Well, my childhood wasn't as glamorous as George's, but my parents divorced before I ever started school. My mom didn't go in the military until I was in middle school. But I am the youngest and only girl in my family, and my dad was a farmer. So I grew up with dirt bikes and quads and jet boats and dune buggies and all of those things. It was hard in high school because I think I went to four different high schools, and I did not enjoy moving around that much at all.
[00:06:29.430] - Big Rich Klein
Especially at high school, because that's when you really form those relationships that can last forever.
[00:06:39.040] - Lora Leyner
This is true. So that was a little rough, but after high school. What did I do after high school? I don't know. I was in Florida because my mom was stationed out there. And then from there, I went back to Colorado, and then I ended up in Texas, and then I went back to Colorado. Oh, wow. And then I met George, and now we're in Utah. Okay.
[00:07:09.380] - Big Rich Klein
And how were you as a student, Lora? Were you a good student?
[00:07:15.380] - Lora Leyner
Let's just say I had the potential to be a really good student. Now, whether or not I was is a whole other thing.
[00:07:26.470] - Big Rich Klein
How about grade-wise?
[00:07:28.980] - Lora Leyner
If I actually enjoyed the classes, I did very well on them. If I didn't enjoy the classes, I did average, right in the middle. But college, when I went to school for what I do now, I actually graduated with honors.
[00:07:46.090] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, nice. We'll get to that here in just a moment. George, how about yourself? Were you a good student or were you always looking out the window?
[00:07:57.280] - George Leyner
I was a good student. My freshman and sophomore year, I carried a 3.0 average. Junior and senior year, not so much. I got into other things and school wasn't one of my high priorities. Okay.
[00:08:18.320] - Big Rich Klein
What other stuff were you getting into? Is it legal to say?
[00:08:22.170] - George Leyner
Trouble.
[00:08:22.970] - Big Rich Klein
Trouble. Lots of trouble. Trouble. Okay. Was it the influences of the people you hung out with?
[00:08:32.210] - George Leyner
That was a big part of it. I actually, shortly after high school, I went on vacation for several years in the state penitentiary. Oh, okay.
[00:08:45.400] - Big Rich Klein
All right.
[00:08:46.380] - Lora Leyner
He likes to steal cars.
[00:08:48.090] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. Okay. The dire- The dire- The dire- Yeah, gone in 60 seconds.
[00:08:57.050] - George Leyner
Ironically, when I went into I got into vocational auto body school that was in there, and I had a couple of instructors that were at Univista that actually changed my life. They pushed me really hard. They got me into the Department of Labor Apprenticeship program, which was a four-year, 8,000-hour program, which I completed. They also got me into College program through Pikes Peak Community College. I ended I ended up getting Associates of Applied Science Degree for Automotive Refinishing and Repair. Graduated with a 4.0 average. I did have a lot of time to study and write good papers at that time.
[00:09:41.980] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Less distractions?
[00:09:45.530] - George Leyner
Yes.
[00:09:47.140] - Big Rich Klein
No BMX riding, of course.
[00:09:50.060] - George Leyner
No, no BMX riding at that time. I had gotten away from the BMX my junior year, due to injuries and again, started hanging out with some not so good people. Right.
[00:10:05.060] - Big Rich Klein
We all go through periods, or a lot of us do. I was fortunate that I never got caught for anything that I did. Now, I never stole a car, except for maybe borrowing my parents when they didn't know about it. But there was other things that could have put me, at least in jail, nothing that would have put me in in a penitentiary, I think, that I know of, except for some high-speed chases that I got away from the cops.
[00:10:38.740] - George Leyner
Yeah, that's how they caught me. It was a high-speed chase. I ended up going through a chain link fence on a stolen motorcycle at about 140.
[00:10:46.660] - Big Rich Klein
Did you do some hospital time first?
[00:10:50.530] - George Leyner
Yeah, I did about two, three weeks in Scripps, La Jolla, San Diego, before they transported me to the prison.
[00:11:00.740] - Big Rich Klein
You were living in Boulder, but you were in La Jolla when you wrecked, or did you get airflited to La Jolla?
[00:11:10.930] - George Leyner
No, I was living in Boulder, and I moved to California with some A company that I had worked with, I was doing asbestos abatement at the time, making good money. I went out with a father and two sons that ran asbestos business. We were actually living in Laguna Hills. That was when I got arrested in trouble.
[00:11:33.900] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. California will do that.
[00:11:35.960] - George Leyner
Yes, it will.
[00:11:40.760] - Big Rich Klein
Now, that's your trade now because you're still a body man.
[00:11:45.020] - George Leyner
It is. And that's, like I said, the two instructors I had in Buena Vista, John Close and Jim Snyder, really, they cared about their students and they made an impact on me. I was able to get out after almost 10 years and stay out and have a very profitable career. It's done really good for me, provided a good life for myself and my daughter and my wife's.
[00:12:13.120] - Lora Leyner
Wives.
[00:12:13.800] - Big Rich Klein
Wives with an S. I hear Laura say that.
[00:12:18.270] - Lora Leyner
Third time's time.
[00:12:19.660] - Big Rich Klein
How many?
[00:12:21.780] - Lora Leyner
Third time.
[00:12:22.790] - George Leyner
Laura is my third wife. Best yet.
[00:12:25.940] - Big Rich Klein
Best yet.
[00:12:29.710] - George Leyner
Yes. Excuse me? And the last one, trust me.
[00:12:32.920] - Big Rich Klein
There you go. Okay, excellent. Mine was second time around, so I found a winner. I got lucky. Then you did 10 years. That's quite the stint.
[00:12:47.160] - George Leyner
Yeah, it was just a little bit shy of 10 years.
[00:12:49.870] - Big Rich Klein
Did they get you on just the stolen motorcycle?
[00:12:52.710] - George Leyner
There were several counts, along with the escape from a halfway house and high speed evading, causing bodily injury or death, which was myself.
[00:13:04.250] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. They charged you for you injuring yourself?
[00:13:08.960] - George Leyner
Yeah. Well, there was a flight for Life and a hospital bill that had to get paid for somehow. Okay.
[00:13:14.420] - Big Rich Klein
So that was taking care of you working on state or county cars?
[00:13:20.170] - George Leyner
Yeah, pretty much.
[00:13:21.530] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. Okay. You paid your way through. Okay, I get it. Laura, let's talk about Let's talk about you and what happened. You said high school was a challenge. Then how did that change for you?
[00:13:42.300] - Lora Leyner
Well, I just bounced around. I worked in I went to the retail management, and then I ended up pregnant with my daughter while I was still in Colorado and decided to go to Texas where my mom was, worked in retail management some more, and decided that I wasn't getting very far with that. After I got married, I decided to go to school for ultrasound. I was 32 when I decided to do that, and now I've been doing it for 15 years.
[00:14:20.890] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. Okay. Very good. You're talking that marriage. That was a first marriage for you, not George?
[00:14:30.990] - Lora Leyner
Correct. I was married for 14 years. Okay.
[00:14:35.020] - Big Rich Klein
And George, your first two, you don't have to answer it, but how long did they last?
[00:14:43.300] - George Leyner
The first one was about three years, and then she went- Crazy? Pretty much crazy, and I ended up getting full custody of my then four-year-old daughter. Okay. And She didn't see her birth mom from age four until the day she graduated high school.
[00:15:06.770] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, wow.
[00:15:08.440] - George Leyner
Okay. I raised her. My second wife was a blended family. Thought I was doing something good for my daughter to give her a mom and brother and sister, and that didn't work out too well. It created a lot of problems, and I ended up having to make a choice between my daughter and her, and that was a no-brainer. Right.
[00:15:29.040] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Okay. How did you two meet?
[00:15:35.360] - George Leyner
We met on Bumble.
[00:15:37.850] - Big Rich Klein
On Bumble? Yeah. Okay.
[00:15:39.560] - Lora Leyner
After my divorce, my two sister-in-law took me out one night, and they set up my Bumble account. All it said about me was I lived in Winsor, and I was an ultrasound tech. There were two pictures on there. One of them, you couldn't even see my face. I was sitting on the side of the mountain in Estes Park, but I I had a Vans hoodie on and I had Vans tennis shoes on. The other picture was me with another girl.
[00:16:08.620] - Big Rich Klein
That was encouraging for George, right?
[00:16:11.180] - Lora Leyner
Right? I guess the Vans drew him in.
[00:16:14.790] - George Leyner
It was the picture of her outside enjoying the outside stuff because that's something that I truly enjoy, is outdoors.
[00:16:24.340] - Lora Leyner
It's funny because when we finally did meet, we both said, I'm not looking for anything serious I just want somebody to hang out and do things with.
[00:16:33.470] - Big Rich Klein
That sounds like Shelley and I.
[00:16:35.290] - Lora Leyner
We just both wanted to have fun.
[00:16:36.550] - Big Rich Klein
Here we are, six years later. We just both wanted to have fun.
[00:16:38.900] - George Leyner
A partner to have fun with. Then, Here we are, six years later, and we've been married for a year. Coming up at Trail Hero. Yeah, Trail Hero will be a one-year anniversary.
[00:16:52.890] - Big Rich Klein
Congratulations on that.
[00:16:55.260] - Lora Leyner
Thank you. We got married there last year.
[00:16:59.810] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. I didn't realize that that's where you'd gotten married. Awesome.
[00:17:02.960] - Lora Leyner
Yeah, on the beach.
[00:17:03.890] - George Leyner
On the beach.
[00:17:05.160] - Big Rich Klein
There you go. There you go. And George, you were outdoorsy at that point. You had gotten out of... Let's see, timing-wise, about '97 to 2000, you were out of trouble at that point?
[00:17:22.120] - George Leyner
Yes, sir. I got out about... It was late '98 that I got out, and I was doing a lot of car stuff. Stuff, restoring Corvairs, showing Corvairs, worked in a shop where we did a lot of low riders and off-road vehicles. That's what got me into off-roading again, because I grew up on dirt bikes, riding around in the mountains. And then started building... My first Jeep that I built was a '90 Wrangler that we dropped at 350 in and did a spring over and shackling reversal and half ton axles, and took it to Moab for Moab Safari in 2000.
[00:18:09.890] - Big Rich Klein
We may have crossed paths.
[00:18:12.990] - George Leyner
Maybe that was back when Dump Bump was still alive and active and a pretty good show every day.
[00:18:22.760] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, there's a good story about Little Rich, me and a buddy standing at Dump Bump on one of the nights when there's 2000 thousand people out there, and everybody's watching people get stupid. And Rich was just in high school, and he was digging out holes. In fact, it might have been even earlier than that. He may have still been eighth or ninth grade, somewhere in there. And he was digging holes in the dark. And then things that were 12, 16 inches in diameter and six inches deep. So people would be walking in the dark, holding a beer or whatever, and then step in the fucking hole and just eat shit, right? And he probably dug 50 holes. I would love to have seen that. We were just standing there laughing. Oh, my God, it was hilarious. People would go, What the hell?
[00:19:20.360] - George Leyner
I could see him doing that, actually.
[00:19:23.890] - Big Rich Klein
And then the cop showed up. Everybody went running. Me and my partner and Little Rich just sat there because there was a lot of underage people there, and those were all the people that went running. All the people that were of age were just sat there and like, Why? What's up? What's the problem? And it was no big deal, but those were some pretty fun times back there.
[00:19:46.870] - George Leyner
Yes, they were.
[00:19:49.220] - Big Rich Klein
So did you get to Moab a lot?
[00:19:52.270] - George Leyner
I used to go to Moab back then. We went for once or twice a year from Colorado out with a group of guys that wheeled with. And then when I married my second wife, I got out of off-roading for a while until one of my buddies got married. He actually got married on the top of Moab Rim about 2006, 2007, and that got the bug going again in me.
[00:20:22.790] - Big Rich Klein
How did everybody get to the top of the hill?
[00:20:27.550] - George Leyner
Did they have somebody- Yeah, we We all had rigs, so we just drove everybody up in our YJs and Cherkeys, and they were all pretty well-built.
[00:20:38.080] - Big Rich Klein
Nice. Laura, you were outdoorsy. You were a tech, ultrasound tech. How did you get involved? I mean, you grew up, you said, around all sorts of things, correct? Correct. How did you get involved, or did you not get really into off road until George?
[00:21:10.040] - Lora Leyner
Both of my brothers had side-by-sides, and I would come visit and go do things with them, like in Breckenridge. Then once I moved back to Colorado, I started to go up to Walden with them and then Moab. Then I met George, and I had never been rock crawling before, so I fell in love with it. It is so much fun. I very rarely ever get out of the passenger seat. I'm in there probably about 95% of the time.
[00:21:49.030] - George Leyner
Okay, good. At least, yeah. She doesn't get out unless it gets really stupid. Her first time rock crawling was in my 87 4-runner on 37 seven stickies, and we went through Penrose.
[00:22:02.870] - Lora Leyner
And he broke his axel.
[00:22:04.360] - George Leyner
And I broke the rear axel to the point to the caliper was the only thing holding the wheel on. And here I am with a woman that I'm trying to impress, and we're doing trail repairs in the middle of Penrose to get it out.
[00:22:20.910] - Big Rich Klein
Well, at least she figured out that you were handy.
[00:22:24.630] - Lora Leyner
Yes, I did.
[00:22:25.510] - Big Rich Klein
And that's an important trait.
[00:22:29.240] - Lora Leyner
With your little What is that jack called?
[00:22:31.400] - George Leyner
The little Hydraulic Jack. Yeah. Very small Hydraulic Jacks.
[00:22:35.790] - Lora Leyner
Sitting on top of stacked rocks.
[00:22:37.940] - Big Rich Klein
Totally safe.
[00:22:40.150] - George Leyner
Exactly. Not OSHA approved at all.
[00:22:42.540] - Big Rich Klein
But that's a Toyota thing anyway. Yes, it is. 37 stickies on Toyota axles? Yeah. Stock axles, especially. Yeah.
[00:22:52.920] - George Leyner
Yeah. At that time, I didn't even have RCVs. Right.
[00:22:59.150] - Big Rich Klein
What What vehicles have you owned?
[00:23:02.640] - George Leyner
I had the Jeep, the '90 Jeep Wrangler for a while. Sold that after my first divorce. Then I also built a '95 4-runner that I did a solid AXL swap and a 10-inch bob on the back with custom bodywork, of course, because that's what I do for a living. Mostly Toyotas. I've had probably 12 or 13 Toyota 4-runners over the years.
[00:23:29.920] - Big Rich Klein
Wow.
[00:23:31.570] - Lora Leyner
I made him build his buggy.
[00:23:33.750] - George Leyner
Yeah, the buggy.
[00:23:35.540] - Lora Leyner
Yes, I did. He got the chassis as a divorce present from his last marriage, and apparently it just set him- Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:23:42.210] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Let's go into that a little deeper. Or do you mean is that all that you were able to take along with your clothes?
[00:23:52.400] - George Leyner
No. Actually, my buddy's back in Colorado, I had gone with one of them to pick up some tires, and he was buying them from Josh Pat. I went down with him, and Josh showed us the chassis that he had, and it's actually an old Campbell chassis. It was the Psycho Billy Cadillac. It was his IFS car from '03, but it was just the bear chassis, no engine, nothing else. I fell in love with it. I thought it'd be really cool. I didn't have the money or anything to do anything with it. And about two months later, I got a call from my buddy, and he had me come down to the shop, and there was a chassis sitting in the back of his little Toyota pickup.
[00:24:42.700] - Lora Leyner
Ciaran?
[00:24:43.670] - George Leyner
Yeah, Ciaran and Romney. They, all my buddies got it, pitched in, and they bought the chassis for me to build as a divorce present.
[00:24:51.700] - Big Rich Klein
Wow, that's some good friends.
[00:24:53.990] - Lora Leyner
Yeah, but it sat there.
[00:24:55.420] - George Leyner
And then it sat for about a year, year and a half.
[00:24:58.410] - Big Rich Klein
After your divorce, you probably needed to to get some bank funds, right?
[00:25:02.240] - George Leyner
Yeah, and I needed to find the right woman to push me.
[00:25:06.570] - Big Rich Klein
There you go.
[00:25:07.740] - George Leyner
And we ended up when it was January first, 2020, we were at a New Year's Eve party with our friends, and one of them was going to get proposed to his girlfriend in Moab or in Sand Hollow last week of March. And we used to do two group trips out to either Moab or Sand Hollow. She said, You're going to get that buggy done by that time because we're not going back to Sand Hollow with the forerunner because every time we'd bring it out, we'd blow shit up.
[00:25:43.540] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:25:44.990] - Lora Leyner
I told him I just needed Valentine's Day, and he could spend the rest of the time working on the buggy, and I wouldn't get mad.
[00:25:51.540] - Big Rich Klein
Very good. See, now that's a keeper right there.
[00:25:55.680] - George Leyner
Yeah, that was the first time that I had a keeper. I I spent a lot of hours in the shop. I built it from just the bear tube chassis to running, driving, and out to Sand Hollow in just over three months.
[00:26:11.100] - Big Rich Klein
When I saw that chassis, I It looked familiar, but I didn't realize that that was the Psycho Billy chassis.
[00:26:20.280] - George Leyner
I worked real hard to keep the lines similar to pay homage, and that's one of the reasons why we run the rear wings that we run, the side panels. Because the original chassis, I actually have the original supports for the wings and did it to pay homage to the Ogie because I like the Ogie stuff. Right.
[00:26:48.000] - Big Rich Klein
I remember when that buggy first showed up.
[00:26:52.660] - George Leyner
Oh, yeah. And it didn't work very well on the rocks.
[00:26:56.270] - Big Rich Klein
No, it was more of a go fast.
[00:26:59.680] - George Leyner
Yeah.
[00:27:00.070] - Big Rich Klein
But that's what everybody was trying to do. Everybody back then, it was V8s and everybody thought you needed that big horsepower to make the climbs. Now we've learned, Nope, that's not necessary.
[00:27:16.820] - George Leyner
This is true.
[00:27:19.450] - Lora Leyner
You did have to widen it a little.
[00:27:21.790] - Big Rich Klein
You had to widen it a little?
[00:27:23.410] - George Leyner
Yeah. The main section of the chassis is still the original chassis right down to the ZUS fastener tabs. I redid the front section for the motor, and then the back section. I had to widen the roof quite a bit because it was a single-seat car. Right.
[00:27:41.220] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. How long did that take you to put all together?
[00:27:47.430] - George Leyner
Three months.
[00:27:48.340] - Big Rich Klein
Wow, that's good.
[00:27:50.130] - George Leyner
I used the drive train out of the the forerunner that we had that was affectionately called the short bus because it was yellow, school bus yellow. But engine transmission, transfer case, and axles all came out of that.
[00:28:05.090] - Big Rich Klein
Wow.
[00:28:05.490] - Lora Leyner
We've upgraded since then.
[00:28:07.190] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I was going to say, I don't remember it, breaking axles as easily.
[00:28:13.880] - George Leyner
No, we are Our first competition, which would have been in Rangely. Was that SuperCrawl No, our first one was We Rock in Rangely
[00:28:24.300] - Lora Leyner
I didn't spot for you.
[00:28:25.320] - George Leyner
You did not spot for me then. It still had Toyota axles on on 37s.
[00:28:31.880] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. And now you're running 60s?
[00:28:35.950] - George Leyner
I'm running 60s, front and rear on 40s. Okay.
[00:28:40.760] - Big Rich Klein
Laura, how much work did you put into the building of the car or just motivation?
[00:28:44.920] - Lora Leyner
I gave all of my support. That was all you got from me. He would talk and talk and talk, and I was like, Okay, yeah, sure. Sounds good. Whatever you think.
[00:28:59.910] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. What was that first trip out to Sand Hollow with it like?
[00:29:06.120] - George Leyner
That was a lot of fun. We had a blast with it. It did a lot better than I was expecting because I'm not a professional buggy builder, and that was my first attempt at building a buggy. It's done very well over the last four years of beating the snot out of it and- Still being a drag axel. Still being a drag axel. One of the things that got us and me into the We Rock scene and the Super Crawl scene was to hang out with our friends, Tyler and Logan, more often. And that was a way for us to meet up with them and just hang out with them was to start doing the We Rock competitions.
[00:29:51.360] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. And how did you meet those guys?
[00:29:54.070] - George Leyner
I met those guys at the very first Trail Hero. All right. I had Met him on a trail with... It was Dave Paulson and Ron Dogg were leading and guiding, and George Zoros, and Tyler, and Logan were along there, too. Following day, I snuck in on the trail going to the maze with Logan spotting me. Tyler was in his side-by-side because he blew his Jeep up. One of the first couple obstacles in there, Logan was trying to tell me not to drop the hole about the time I dropped in the hole, and I rolled the forerunner over. That was when I knew that I had met the dumbasses that I needed to meet. We have formed a bond that I can't explain, and I'm very thankful and blessed to have. Those two have taught me a lot. Tyler is an amazing driver as well as an amazing person, and they have done a lot for us.
[00:31:04.530] - Big Rich Klein
They are great guys. Absolutely. Whether they're working together or competing against each other, it's always fun to watch. Yes.
[00:31:17.320] - George Leyner
Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
[00:31:20.770] - Big Rich Klein
How did you get from... Because I know you were still in Colorado, but you guys decided to move to Hurricane St. George Why make that move besides the great wheeling? Peer pressure.
[00:31:37.510] - George Leyner
Peer pressure. Yeah, peer pressure from from Logan, Tyler and Taylor and the wives and other people that we had met. Along the way, we actually had a three to five year plan, which still isn't up. Last September, Laura, just one day, September, she had come home from work and she I said, I've had enough. I put in my notice at work.
[00:32:04.970] - Big Rich Klein
We're going to be moving.
[00:32:07.410] - George Leyner
We came out to Trail Hero last year, and I had a job interview at a body shop, a couple of body shops down here, and she had a job interview at the hospital up here in Cedar. We ended up getting the jobs, and that Thanksgiving, we packed up the house and moved to Cedar City.
[00:32:29.570] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. Excellent. Okay. And so you're working in St. George. Laura is in Cedar City, but you guys live in Cedar City. Yes, sir. Okay. And yeah, I live there with Rich and my daughter and my first wife until 2000. Moved out here halfway through Rich's junior year of high school. We left Cedar City. We lived by Cedar High School.
[00:33:02.940] - Lora Leyner
Okay.
[00:33:04.270] - George Leyner
Yeah. We actually live just south of the Maverick on South Maine.
[00:33:08.750] - Big Rich Klein
Okay, cool. What is it besides that peer pressure, what attracted you to... I mean, I guess it's just the wheeling.
[00:33:25.090] - George Leyner
The Wheeling was a lot of it. Both of our daughters are 24. They're grown. They book in April. My daughter was born the first of April in 2000, and her daughter was born the end of April in 2000. They're both grown and on their own, and we decided it was time to live our lives and follow dreams and just enjoy life.
[00:33:47.460] - Lora Leyner
Plus, I had lost both of my parents within the same year, and I was like, What are we doing? We should just go and enjoy our lives.
[00:33:57.330] - Big Rich Klein
Right. That's what we're supposed to do when the kids are gone. Yes.
[00:34:02.320] - George Leyner
That's what it's been over the last almost year is it's been a lot of... We actually haven't done a lot of hardcore wheeling with the buggy other than competitions, but we've done a lot of Razoring, and we bought a '53 M38 A1 Jeep as a toy, and we've had that out several times. We took it to Ure and done quite a few trails around, and we've had a lot of fun with that.
[00:34:28.690] - Big Rich Klein
You said a '53 Yes, sir.
[00:34:31.640] - George Leyner
'53.
[00:34:31.930] - Big Rich Klein
That's so much fun. Does it still have the... Is it all original drivetrain?
[00:34:36.480] - George Leyner
It's all original on the exterior. The drivetrain is not. It has a V6 with a turbo 400 up to the T18, and it's got a worn overdrive, and everything else is 100% original.
[00:34:52.670] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Yeah, I had a 53 M38 A1 as well. It had the odd fire V6 in it, and an SM4 65. And it was... Man, that thing was so low geared.
[00:35:07.970] - George Leyner
Yeah.
[00:35:08.600] - Big Rich Klein
27 front axel, 25 rear axel, and ran. When I first got it, I was running the guy that had it before me, the Armstrong true tracks that were out around. You couldn't do more than 40 miles an hour it because it would just rattle your teeth out.
[00:35:32.400] - George Leyner
Yeah.
[00:35:32.850] - Big Rich Klein
But it could wheel in the snow like nothing else.
[00:35:37.320] - Lora Leyner
Something to try.
[00:35:39.450] - George Leyner
Yeah. We've had it in the mud. Yes. Yuck. That was fun.
[00:35:44.190] - Lora Leyner
That was so much fun.
[00:35:46.200] - George Leyner
Doing the Barracks Trail right after a big rain. We were with Tyler and Dave Wong doing that, just playing in the mud. Nice. Had a wonderful time.
[00:35:58.420] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome. What is it that attracted you to the competitions and wanted to keep doing it?
[00:36:09.540] - George Leyner
Honestly, the biggest draw for both of us was the people.
[00:36:16.150] - Lora Leyner
Okay. Yes.
[00:36:17.000] - George Leyner
The people that we've met doing the competitions and the Saturday night dinners and potlucks that the wives all put together, That was the biggest draw. The competition was fun, and we had a good time. We have a good time at it, and we love it. I judged first. And she judged first. She started judging in Supercrawl while I was competing. And then we started running our first full season of Sportsman B. I convinced her to spot for me for the first season, and we did good. Ended We ended up second in points behind the Winters. Then the next year, we ran Sportsman B again, and we ended up national champions for Sportsman B. Excellent.
[00:37:14.530] - Big Rich Klein
Was that when Laura got hurt, or was that the third year?
[00:37:18.800] - George Leyner
No, that would have been the second year in Bagdad.
[00:37:22.430] - Big Rich Klein
Right, and you slipped.
[00:37:24.680] - Lora Leyner
I didn't slip.
[00:37:25.600] - Big Rich Klein
Oh. He just took the wrong line?
[00:37:32.310] - Lora Leyner
No. Actually, so we had discussed our strategy for that gate. It was a monstrous gate, and I told him he could try the bonus gate a couple of times, and if he couldn't get it, then we would switch over to the regular gate, which people were struggling on because there was a lot of loose dirt there. So I had told him what exactly I wanted him to do, and And he did it beautifully. He freaking nailed it. No cones, no nothing. Super excited. It worked. And then I went to back up away from the buggy so he could come through to go to the second gate, not realizing there is a big rock behind me. So I couldn't scoop back any further, and my leg got pulled under his tire.
[00:38:26.640] - Big Rich Klein
Okay, that's what happened.
[00:38:29.760] - Lora Leyner
Yeah, Yeah, he didn't run it over one time.
[00:38:33.200] - George Leyner
You got to remember, it's a manual. Right. So after then I had comms on, and when she was screaming that I was on her leg, I went to hit reverse, and I missed reverse the first time, which launched it forward again. And then the second time, I finally made it into reverse. So I actually ran over her leg twice.
[00:38:56.940] - Lora Leyner
Three times.
[00:38:58.120] - George Leyner
Well, three times if you count the reverse.
[00:39:00.810] - Lora Leyner
Wow. Yeah.
[00:39:03.160] - Big Rich Klein
I remember I was at the front gate and I heard the screaming, and I was- Oh, my gosh.
[00:39:08.410] - Lora Leyner
You could hear me screaming from there?
[00:39:10.830] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry. No, no. But It was like, oh, my God, what's going on? I know that there's organizations that don't have spotters, and in the right competition, I agree with that. In the trail breaker type of event, where everything is so big and it's hard enough to just walk. But when it's the more technical crawling, I think spotters are important. Otherwise, we'd have to spread the gates out. It would be a lot different type of an event, and I'm not looking for that. I like the old-school technical stuff myself instead of the death-defying huge stuff where The risk is almost all or nothing. I trade off the possibility of something like that happening over totally killing a car as well. Laura, I'm glad that you have healed. You make sure that there's no rocks behind you now, right?
[00:40:20.970] - George Leyner
We take extra care of making sure I can see where she's at. It was a freak accident.
[00:40:29.850] - Lora Leyner
It was. I don't blame him. It was just a matter of circumstance.
[00:40:33.160] - Big Rich Klein
It just happened.
[00:40:35.180] - George Leyner
But one of the things that we did get out of that was the amount of support, overwhelming support from the whole rock crawling community, not just We Rock, was just simply amazing. I don't have words to describe how it affected us. And that was a very healthy, It was a positive thing for us to get through that.
[00:41:03.560] - Lora Leyner
It was a blessing. The whole train that they did to get me down, I have pictures of that. I was high on drugs, so everybody was saying, I was saying, Hi.
[00:41:18.400] - George Leyner
She really didn't want to do the helicopter, right? I did not.
[00:41:23.800] - Lora Leyner
They really drug me up for that one.
[00:41:29.150] - Big Rich Klein
Was it because you didn't think you were hurt bad enough, or you just didn't like the idea of the helicopter?
[00:41:35.260] - Lora Leyner
Probably, I don't know. I didn't know how hurt I was because looking at my leg, yes, it was really swollen, and you could see some lacerations and stuff, but my calf was ginormous. I'm not a huge fan of flying in general, but you want to put me on a helicopter while I'm injured, I can't do anything to help myself.
[00:42:03.700] - George Leyner
Strapped to a board.
[00:42:04.990] - Lora Leyner
Strapped to a board, looking straight up at the propellers. Needless to say, I had a little bit of anxiety, and they finally gave me enough stuff that knocked me out for the entire flight.
[00:42:21.420] - Big Rich Klein
That's Bagdad, Arizona, which is the end of the cul-de-sac, way out in the middle of nowhere. Where did they take you? Phoenix. Phoenix, okay.
[00:42:31.840] - Lora Leyner
But we didn't find out until three weeks later, because of the changes that were happening on my leg, that I actually had a crushing injury. So it was killing all the tissue in my leg.
[00:42:48.690] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, wow.
[00:42:49.880] - Lora Leyner
Yeah. So I ended up having surgery and had a big chunk taken out of my leg, but it's all healed.
[00:43:00.140] - Big Rich Klein
Good.
[00:43:00.620] - Lora Leyner
I got the battle wounds to prove it.
[00:43:03.080] - George Leyner
She's a rock star. She was itching to get back on course that whole season.
[00:43:09.790] - Lora Leyner
I was. I don't like to just watch. I'd rather do.
[00:43:13.900] - Big Rich Klein
Right. She proved again why she's a keeper.
[00:43:20.140] - George Leyner
Oh, yeah. Then she actually married me later that year.
[00:43:26.090] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, that's okay. At least three times now, she's proving she's a keeper.
[00:43:31.270] - George Leyner
Exactly. She really is. I'm super blessed to have her by my side, not just in the upcalling world, but just in life. She's been a huge, huge improvement and help to me. She lets me be me and then has helped me be the real me.
[00:43:52.190] - Lora Leyner
Couldn't happen any other way. Excellent. We have a lot of fun.
[00:43:58.140] - Big Rich Klein
What are some of the plans plans for the future? Where do you guys see yourself in, say, five years?
[00:44:06.290] - George Leyner
We don't look that far ahead. She plans everything. We honestly are just... We're living the here and now and joy in life that we have. We did step up into the pro-mod class this year, and she's not super hip on it. She still has fun, but she doesn't feel like she's Putting as much into the team and being- Helpful. As helpful as she did in sportsmen with the technicality because it is a lot bigger and we're more just trying to finish courses. I've enjoyed it.
[00:44:46.770] - Lora Leyner
I'm sure next year will be better.
[00:44:48.640] - George Leyner
It's just the first- This was our first season, but we did well. We finished the season in third overall. Super proud of that. One of the One of the proud moments for me from Nationals was our last course. We were second to last. We followed Braxton and Jesse Haynes, and And we were the first ones to complete the course without coning out or rolling over.
[00:45:21.320] - Big Rich Klein
Very good.
[00:45:21.700] - George Leyner
Which was huge. And then Kevin and Kaitlyn followed behind us, and they were able to finish as well. And for me, that was That was huge because I was looking at that first climb on that last course, wondering how that was going to go and expecting to be at the bottom, honestly.
[00:45:41.100] - Big Rich Klein
Well, you take your wins where you get them in, especially in that pro-mod class, because we're stuffing you guys in on the pro courses, and they're not easy, even though the gates are wider or They're not easy at all.
[00:46:02.630] - George Leyner
No, they're not. But it's made me a better driver for sure. And we've been competitive this year. We've been pushing Braxton and Kaitlyn, and it's been a very super competitive season to where one extra cone and a few extra backups have made the difference from first, third.
[00:46:25.560] - Big Rich Klein
And the more experience you get, you're going to tighten those up.
[00:46:33.120] - Lora Leyner
Yeah.
[00:46:33.930] - Big Rich Klein
Because it's not just about the line you pick, although that is definitely you have to pick the right line, but it's the strategy of which cone do you take? Because you're going to have to take cones.
[00:46:51.410] - George Leyner
Which cones do you kill and which gate do you feel and work the hardest to make sure you can clear to finish the course in time. Right.
[00:47:00.980] - Big Rich Klein
And then where do you take a bonus? Where don't you take a bonus? Don't always play follow the leader because that's one of the things I see all the time is people start playing follow the leader because, well, that car in front of me made it over there. That doesn't mean that you're going to make it there or that it's going to be easier or harder for you. You have to know the terrain yourself and know your car.
[00:47:27.920] - George Leyner
And all three cars or All the cars in Pro mod are so different between Braxton's car, that super narrow axles, I think he's 78 inches wide, was super short until they stretched it for Farmington. We're 82 and a half, 83 inches wide, 107. And then Caitlin, they're on 42s and they're like 112 inches. So three very different vehicles that don't handle the same and don't do each obstacle exactly the same. Right. That's a lot of fun.
[00:48:04.730] - Big Rich Klein
That makes it more interesting, I think, at least for the spectators and even for yourselves. I don't want to say in the unlimited class, it becomes father of the leader. But that Jesse Haynes FAB class is... I mean, almost the cars are almost identical. There's nuances and stuff, but they still are really close. And every once in a while, at least when Jesse was running in that class, he'd always come out a year with some new little trick that nobody realized was in the vehicle until a lot halfway through the season. But now that he ran Pro-Mod, but it sounds like he's retired, so it's going to be you three again, it looks like.
[00:48:56.790] - Lora Leyner
We really enjoyed having him in the Pro-Mod class.
[00:48:59.810] - George Leyner
We We did. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun having him and Chris down with us in Pro-Mod. I know it was a struggle for him to try to run both the Unlimited and Pro-Mod classes. But for us personally, we really enjoyed it. Had a blast with him there and learned some things.
[00:49:18.080] - Big Rich Klein
If you're going to learn, you might as well learn from the best. He is driven just about every class that we have. So Chris is a great spotter. There's no doubt about that. They work very well together.
[00:49:35.960] - Lora Leyner
He was nice and left some rock stacks for me.
[00:49:38.860] - Big Rich Klein
That is very nice because that's not a Chris move, typically.
[00:49:43.300] - George Leyner
No, it is not a Chris move. Typically, he goes back and unstacks everything.
[00:49:47.500] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, that's for sure. He must have... He must like you guys.
[00:49:56.240] - Lora Leyner
That's awesome. He's just tired of running back and forth.
[00:49:59.720] - Big Rich Klein
I I don't know if Chris gets tired. Although he is getting older now, but the guy works out like nobody else does. So cool. So just status quo, moving on into the future, and living life one day at a time.
[00:50:20.620] - George Leyner
Pretty much. We've been very blessed with the competition. We've had a core group of supporters from Colorado that that consists of brother-in-law, sister-in-law that own a spa company there, and some friends, Heather Coburn and Smokin' Dave's, and another friend of ours, Jim, that are the ones that have actually made it possible for us to make every event financially. And that's been huge. That's something that we couldn't have done what we've done without their help. We also were fortunate that we got picked up by Falcon this year, running their new stickies. And then all the other sponsors that we have, Summit, and J. M. R. R. R. R. And Branic, and Yukon, Race Line, PRP, they're the ones that have made it possible for us to do what we've done and to keep doing it.
[00:51:17.840] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. What's your plans at Trail Hero?
[00:51:23.600] - George Leyner
To have fun.
[00:51:24.920] - Lora Leyner
Finally, get to go wheeling.
[00:51:27.000] - George Leyner
Yeah. That's our time when we relax and we go wheeling. We help guide a couple of trails, watch Logan and Tyler get stupid on the LCQ. Hope they make it through. Tyler is doing the side-by-side shootout, and we also We're doing the We Rock competition on Friday. Excellent.
[00:51:51.230] - Big Rich Klein
Are you going to hit any of the bands?
[00:51:54.320] - George Leyner
Yeah, we're probably going to hit one or two of the bands. We'll be able to hear them from our camp spot, I'm sure. We're staying in the sandpit.
[00:52:02.860] - Big Rich Klein
There you go. It's hard to travel home every night.
[00:52:09.610] - Lora Leyner
It's actually nice this year because if I need to come home, it's just a 45-minute drive as opposed to 11 hours.
[00:52:17.260] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Much better.
[00:52:20.280] - Lora Leyner
Oh, yeah.
[00:52:21.670] - George Leyner
For us, Trail Hero is more about hanging out with the people that we've met and the friends that we've made and just catching up and It's our downtime.
[00:52:31.590] - Big Rich Klein
Very good. Well, I want to say thank you so much for sharing your life individually and together with us and giving me a chance to learn more about you guys. That's my favorite part about doing these interviews is learning who everybody is and what made them to where they're at. Here's a last question for you guys. If somebody was to walk up to you and say, Hey, I want to get into this rock crawling thing, how would you tell them to do it?
[00:53:14.240] - George Leyner
Have fun.
[00:53:15.460] - Lora Leyner
No. How would you tell them to do it?
[00:53:17.090] - George Leyner
I would tell them to get into whatever their budget allows and find trails and people that are doing the same thing. If they're looking to get into competition, get into the sportsman classes. They are amazing for teaching you how to drive, how to use your vehicle, utilize the tools that you have, and what tools that you may be missing.
[00:53:39.920] - Big Rich Klein
Perfect. Laura, do you have advice?
[00:53:44.810] - Lora Leyner
Just enjoy yourself. Have fun with it. Don't beat yourself up. It's a great sport. I love it.
[00:53:55.470] - Big Rich Klein
If you let it get to you, that need to win, it can be daunting. I know that's what a lot of the guys that have retired or are retiring, especially the guys that have been at the top of the game, they just feel that pressure that they have to win, and it just takes the fun out of it. Justin said that in his retirement post, and I know that the same thing has happened with guys like Tracy Jordan. It just became not fun anymore. Wieland is supposed to be fun, Competition is much more enjoyable when you're at ease instead of having to bear down the whole time.
[00:54:41.830] - George Leyner
Yup. That's when we found out we do the best is when we just go out and drive and just have fun and not concentrate on points or where we're at. That's when we do our best. We have fun.
[00:54:54.780] - Lora Leyner
Who knows, in a couple of years, if we get another buggy built, I might start competing.
[00:54:59.800] - Big Rich Klein
There There you go.
[00:55:01.510] - Lora Leyner
I'll only drive our buggy.
[00:55:05.350] - George Leyner
She does drive it quite a bit. When we're doing trail guides and stuff, I'll be out spotting people and helping them get up through the trails. She ends up having to drive the buggy up through the trails. She kills it.
[00:55:16.970] - Big Rich Klein
I have to spot her. It's all about reading the terrain. If you've been spotting in competitions, you know how to read the terrain.
[00:55:25.040] - George Leyner
The funny thing is, is she doesn't look at the terrain. She just looks at me.
[00:55:28.390] - Lora Leyner
Yes. Okay.
[00:55:30.340] - Big Rich Klein
There you go. That works.
[00:55:34.080] - Lora Leyner
Well, I don't get a lot of opportunities to drive. I do look at the terrain, but I trust in my spotter because I know he's not going to let me roll. I should probably just roll one time and get it over with, so I'm not so freaked out about rolling it. When I'm passenger with him, though, I've told him, Here, try this instead, because I do watch the terrain.
[00:56:03.040] - George Leyner
She sees lines, and she does real good with that, especially considering she hasn't been doing it for a lot of years.
[00:56:11.360] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Excellent. Well, guys, I want to say thank you so much for spending the time this evening. I know you guys are busy with work, and you were on call, Laura, today. I'm glad that call didn't come in while we were on this call. I can't wait until the season starts again and see you guys, hopefully, down there in Bagdad.
[00:56:37.090] - George Leyner
We're planning on being there in Bagdad. It was an honor to talk to you. Yes, thank you so much, Rich. Honestly, it was a surprise. It's one of those things that makes a guy or couple feel pretty good about themselves.
[00:56:51.730] - Big Rich Klein
Well, you know what? You guys had a story to tell, and it ended up being much more interesting than I had imagined. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
[00:57:04.030] - George Leyner
You're very welcome. Thank you, and thank you for everything you've done.
[00:57:07.760] - Big Rich Klein
No worries. You guys have a great evening.
[00:57:10.270] - Lora Leyner
You too. You too. Tell Shelle, how am I?
[00:57:12.410] - Big Rich Klein
We will. I will. Thank you.
[00:57:14.340] - Lora Leyner
All right. Thanks. Bye-bye. All right. Bye-bye.
[00:57:17.310] - Big Rich Klein
Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.