Episode 242 with Jeff Mckinlay, man of experiences.

Jeff McKinlay, a man of experiences, from milking cows to construction; building steel buildings and rockcrawlers. Jeff has the work ethic to knock everyone out of the park; he’s the best at all he has done. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

5:38 – Wrestling was what I was good at; ended up four-time state champion, that’s what taught me a good work ethic is the wrestling and the training 

12:58 – I realized it’s really hard to get paid when you’re not the guy in charge of the money             

20:45 – Kevin was at his shop and had an old Twisted Customs rear steer buggy, I was like, “what in the world is that?”

26:20 – Anybody that’s crawled with Kevin knows that you don’t spot and you don’t help, you better keep up or you’re just getting left. 

34:10 – I remember at my youngest son, Kade’s funeral, people were saying, “you did more with that kid in 17 years than most people do with their kids in their entire life.” That was a compliment I feel really good about. 

Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:45.280] - 

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[00:01:39.460] - Big Rich Klein

From humble beginnings, my next guest has experienced the ups and downs and overcome challenges to become successful. From working Ag and cutting firewood as a kid, to Little Caesar's Pizza, to running a construction company, Jeff McKinley has experienced life. All right, Jeff McKinley. So glad you're able to join us this morning on Conversations with Big Rich. I'm really looking forward to this interview. You've done a lot of things in your life, and I'm looking forward to finding out about more of them. Thank you for coming on the air.

[00:02:14.120] - Jeff McKinlay

You bet. It's good to be with you on there, and just good to talk to you again.

[00:02:19.260] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, so here we go. First question, the easy one, where were you born and raised?

[00:02:24.850] - Jeff McKinlay

I was born in Newdale, Idaho. I spent Almost 18 years there.

[00:02:32.180] - Big Rich Klein

Newdale, Idaho. And I'm not... I mean, I spent a lot of time in Blackfoot for years, but where is Newdale?

[00:02:43.550] - Jeff McKinlay

Newdale is on Highway 33 between, between Rexburg and Driggs, right in the middle there.

[00:02:50.210] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, okay. All right. Pretty rural. Not a big, not a big community.

[00:02:55.740] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, we were just under 200 people in the town growing up.

[00:02:59.640] - Big Rich Klein

Okay A lot of, lot of Ag. Were you, was your family in the ag business?

[00:03:07.780] - Jeff McKinlay

No, we weren't in the ag business. My dad just, he loved hunting and fishing so much. He wanted to be closer to where all that was, and then he would drive to work. We just grew up in a rural community full of farmers, but there was others that lived out there that commuted for work.

[00:03:24.750] - Big Rich Klein

Same thing. What did your dad do for work?

[00:03:28.910] - Jeff McKinlay

For a long time, he was a contractor, but then he hired on with the site, the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory. So he spent 30 years out there.

[00:03:39.540] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, wow. Okay. That's a good career.

[00:03:42.660] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah.

[00:03:43.890] - Big Rich Klein

So growing up pretty rural there. How many kids in your family?

[00:03:49.990] - Jeff McKinlay

There was five, including me, one boy and three girls.

[00:03:54.270] - Big Rich Klein

One other boy and three girls. Okay.

[00:03:57.690] - Jeff McKinlay

Yep. All right.

[00:03:59.020] - Big Rich Klein

That was the first thing. Wait a second. That's only four. Oh, I get it, including you.

[00:04:03.490] - Jeff McKinlay

Yes.

[00:04:04.300] - Big Rich Klein

Sometimes I don't catch on real quick in the morning. So where do you fall in that range of kids?

[00:04:12.650] - Jeff McKinlay

So I'm the second oldest. I have a sister that's older and a sister just younger than my younger brother, then my youngest sister.

[00:04:22.410] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And did you guys... Was there a school there in Newdale, or did you guys have to bus to record?

[00:04:29.770] - Jeff McKinlay

No, we had to bus to Sugar Salem.

[00:04:32.230] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, Sugar Salem. Okay.

[00:04:33.800] - Jeff McKinlay

Yep. It was about six miles away, six or seven right in there. All right.

[00:04:38.800] - Big Rich Klein

What's it like riding a school bus in the winter?

[00:04:43.970] - Jeff McKinlay

Well, That bus driver goes through quite a bit. The plows are actually really good over in this area compared to other places just because we deal with it so much. But yeah, I mean, there was times when we got off the road and stranded and wait for another bus to come or your parents would come pick you up. I mean, living in Newdale with the equipment, I actually pulled school busses back on the road back in the day.

[00:05:10.390] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Okay, cool. And what was school like for you? Were you a good student or were you looking to get outside?

[00:05:19.090] - Jeff McKinlay

You know what? I always loved outdoors, but I was into all the sports I could. And so I kept my grades up because of that. I would say I didn't try real hard, but I kept at least a B plus average, just so there was never any questions.

[00:05:34.170] - Big Rich Klein

And what sports did you enjoy?

[00:05:38.010] - Jeff McKinlay

I played football. I was on the varsity team as a sophomore, ended up going to the state championship game twice with them. And I played baseball for four years, and then wrestling was what I was good at. I did that my whole life, all growing up, going to Western regionals and nationals and nationals in high school. I started as a freshman, ended up a four-time state champion. That's what taught me a good work ethic is the wrestling and the training. It's made me who I am today because when you're wrestling, there's nobody helping you. There's not a team. There's nobody that can come out and give you a hand, nothing. You figure out how to do it and you make it work.

[00:06:26.310] - Big Rich Klein

Very true. They score it as a team sport, but it is an individual sport for sure.

[00:06:34.460] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, you're on your own.

[00:06:37.380] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. And so when you played football, what position did you play?

[00:06:45.050] - Jeff McKinlay

I played middle linebacker and runningback. Our school was small, so we had to play both ways. Right.

[00:06:52.850] - Big Rich Klein

And what outside of the school activities did you enjoy?

[00:06:59.460] - Jeff McKinlay

Well, hunting and fishing for sure. Hunting is probably one of my favorite things to do. But all growing up, we did all sorts of outdoor activities, hunting, fishing, camping, hiking. I don't like hiking anymore unless I'm hunting, but- That's why we have Jeeps. That's right.

[00:07:20.880] - Big Rich Klein

Or four-wheelers.

[00:07:23.540] - Jeff McKinlay

Yep.

[00:07:24.960] - Big Rich Klein

So then are you Elk hunting, deer hunting, bear hunting, everything?

[00:07:33.950] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah. If you can hunt it, I want to hunt it. Deer and elk are my favorite, but yeah, I hunt bears every year, cats, everything.

[00:07:42.730] - Big Rich Klein

Very good. What is the population of bears in your area, or where do you head out to hunt bear?

[00:07:51.630] - Jeff McKinlay

Well, so I've got a cattle ranch right below the Tetons, and there's plenty of bears on it. I haven't had to go anywhere besides there for years, and that's right up above Newdale, where I grew up. I guess in a way, I've been just hunting there my whole life.

[00:08:09.510] - Big Rich Klein

So you raise cattle now?

[00:08:12.700] - Jeff McKinlay

Well, I did up until a year and a half ago. I was running 150 pairs, and then the price of cattle went way up. I sold them, decided to limit some of the burdens on myself and try to get a little more freedom.

[00:08:28.010] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. Okay. And as you were growing up, did you have a job? Did you have any jobs or anything? Or did you work around? What was your... Besides playing and hunting and in sports? Did you work?

[00:08:50.870] - Jeff McKinlay

Oh, yeah. Our family, we actually grew up pretty poor. For For the longest time, my mom made all my clothes and we got our shoes from the thrift store. Yeah, I think things were tough. I would move pipe through the summer to be able to afford a few things when I was 12 and 13. Then as I got a little older, I got to do a little more work around the farms for the farmers. Then once I got in high school, up in Newdale, we had four cows growing up, four milk cows. Part of what helped pay for our groceries is we would sell that milk. With my dad working at the site, that left it up to me. I would milk four cows morning and night by hand. I think it was my junior year, we finally got an automatic milker, and that saved a lot of time.

[00:09:59.170] - Big Rich Klein

How young were you when you got married?

[00:10:06.240] - Jeff McKinlay

Let's see. I think I was 21.

[00:10:08.440] - Big Rich Klein

21, okay. You're LDS, correct?

[00:10:14.330] - Jeff McKinlay

I was raised that way.

[00:10:16.810] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. So you didn't serve a mission?

[00:10:19.680] - Jeff McKinlay

No. Okay.

[00:10:20.820] - Big Rich Klein

All right. And your wife, was that somebody you went to school with or did you meet later on?

[00:10:29.490] - Jeff McKinlay

No. So when I went to college in the summertime, I would come back and I had a buddy that owned a bunch of Little Caesar's pizzas. And so in the summertime, when I'd come back, I would manage those stores for him. I ended up over in Mountain Home by Boise one summer managing a store over there. And she actually worked for me when I met her, and she just followed me back home.

[00:10:56.720] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. So you were the guy walking around going pizza, pizza?

[00:11:02.360] - Jeff McKinlay

Exactly.

[00:11:06.640] - Big Rich Klein

And what did you study in college?

[00:11:09.370] - Jeff McKinlay

I did... Well, I went into business, man, I was going to go into engineering, but then that didn't work out. So I just stayed with the business management program, and that's where I was.

[00:11:30.240] - Big Rich Klein

Then after doing the pizza-pizza thing, is that when you got into construction?

[00:11:39.440] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah. So growing up, I guess I failed to mention that I'd spend a lot of time helping because my dad had a little side deal where he'd go and do addition on houses and stuff. So I learned to do construction through that. But yeah, it was after college that I started in on the construction.

[00:12:00.130] - Big Rich Klein

When your wife followed you back from Mountain Home, you guys got married right away or got married then?

[00:12:09.840] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, we got married right away. It was actually It was really easy for her to come back over this way because her mom actually grew up in Parker, Idaho, over by St. Anthony. Her mom's family was right here, seven or eight miles away from where I was.

[00:12:30.070] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. All right. Fortunate that you went to Mountain Home then.

[00:12:35.560] - Jeff McKinlay

I'm so glad I did. Probably one of the best things I've ever done. Awesome.

[00:12:42.910] - Big Rich Klein

Let's talk about those early years with being married, starting a business. Did you start your own business or did you work for others first?

[00:12:58.810] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, I I worked for others for four or five years. Then once I had the knowledge to do it myself, I went out on my own. I started out in large commercial concrete construction, and Then I did that for multiple years, building all over the United States. I got tied in with a few good generals that just sent me all over doing concrete for large commercial buildings. Then I realized it's really hard to get paid when you're not the guy in charge of the money. So then I decided I needed to be a general. And now I specialize in commercial construction, but mainly steel buildings. And that's where I'm at today.

[00:13:52.650] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And what was the process like to go from working as a subcontractor to a general?

[00:14:07.260] - Jeff McKinlay

There was a lot more paperwork involved because now instead of just turning in a bid and do the work and get paid for it, now you got to turn in a bid for all phases of the construction project, all 25 phases or 70, whatever it is. Then you got to make sure those bids are right. You got to make sure you get your contracts, get them signed from them, and make sure you got money in the bank to pay people when the owner doesn't pay you on time because a lot of people don't like to be strung out on their money. I understand that because it's hard. And it's, unfortunately, it's something that happens in the construction industry all the time. People are just fine waiting 90 days to pay you or sometimes more. And that's really hard on subcontractors.

[00:14:58.650] - Big Rich Klein

Because they're typically, they're hand to mouth, you might say.

[00:15:06.310] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah. You work job to job and you're your own boss. But it is paycheck to paycheck because you got... I mean, when you're a subcontractor, you still have other mouths to feed. So you got to make sure you got that money coming in and say you do, I don't know, 10 jobs a month or whatever, and five of them decide that they're going to you out 90 days. Well, then where's your money coming from to pay payroll and keep things rolling? You know what I mean? Right. Yep.

[00:15:40.510] - Big Rich Klein

So when you were growing up and you got to that age of driving, were you able to get a car or a truck right away, or were you still hoofing it for a while?

[00:15:56.090] - Jeff McKinlay

No, I had dirt bikes that got me around when I was younger, moving pipe and stuff. But you could get your license at 13 back then. I got my license right at 13, and I saved up, I think it was $180 and bought a F150 Ford high boy.

[00:16:17.910] - Big Rich Klein

For 100? I think- That's pretty good.

[00:16:21.190] - Jeff McKinlay

Well, it didn't run, so my dad helped me put a motor in it, and we realized that the axles were bad. Then we ended up working on those. Honestly, it was fun and I learned a lot, but I think I probably worked on that thing more than I drove it.

[00:16:42.060] - Big Rich Klein

How long did it take you to get it to where it was at least roadworthy?

[00:16:46.710] - Jeff McKinlay

I don't think I ever got it there, but I drove it anyway. Being in a rural community and everything else, you knew everybody. I'd go out and break down on the side of the road, and somebody pick me up, take me home, then we'd drag it home, fix it again. Right.

[00:17:06.790] - Big Rich Klein

That's pretty awesome. What about the next vehicle?

[00:17:13.640] - Jeff McKinlay

The next one, I ended up getting an older S10, and it ran all the time and worked and did everything it needed to. Those Chevy S10s were pretty good rigs back then.

[00:17:29.700] - Big Rich Klein

And did you keep that for very long? Did you leave it stock?

[00:17:35.200] - Jeff McKinlay

No. No? No, I modified it, lifted it, big tires, and ruined it a little bit that way, but it's what I do.

[00:17:45.130] - Big Rich Klein

When did you first experience... I guess it would probably be hunting, wouldn't it? When you first experienced four-wheel drive or off-road?

[00:18:00.240] - Jeff McKinlay

Oh, yeah. Yeah, hunting was a big part of it. We'd always... And we hauled... My dad and I and my brother, we hauled a lot of firewood. We'd go up and get firewood on the weekends so we could sell it to help make ends meet. We did a lot of four-by-end with a full load on.

[00:18:19.180] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And cutting firewood, that's pretty labor-intensive, I would say. But you were athletic, you were a rural kid. You weren't a city kid. You weren't playing video games or sitting on the couch.

[00:18:39.490] - Jeff McKinlay

I look back at it like this because I've coached a lot of football with my kids growing up and everything. Man, weights weren't a big thing back then, but between milk and cows and hauling firewood and stacking hay and getting it in off the fields. I mean, you just did a lot of labor-intensive work that just got you those workouts you needed to be in shape for sports.

[00:19:06.600] - Big Rich Klein

Right. That country strong, country tough.

[00:19:09.460] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah.

[00:19:11.520] - Big Rich Klein

So you're How long were you guys married till you started having children?

[00:19:22.530] - Jeff McKinlay

Let's see, 23. I think we were married two years before we had our daughter. So 23, then we had our daughter, and then 18 months later, we had Trey, our son, and then about just over two years later, we had our third son, Cade. Okay.

[00:19:46.190] - Big Rich Klein

Growing up, the kids were... I mean, I've met the boys. Excellent, excellent, excellent young men. And sorry to hear about Trey's accident, really. That's rough. I'm sure it's still not easy.

[00:20:04.750] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, it was actually Kade. Oh, Kade. Thank you. But yeah, you just never know in this world when it's your time or what's going to happen the next day. So your guy needs to live each day the way he should and keep those relationships and be the person you want to be remembered for because you never know when it's your time.

[00:20:30.610] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And, yeah, you've suffered loss with some friends, too. Do you want to talk about your good friend that you lost?

[00:20:45.020] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, we can do that. Okay. So Kevin, Carol and I, we became buddies on... Let's see, I I was living in Grand Junction, Colorado, and I went dirt biking over by Green River. You have to pass through the turnoff to go to Moab, which is where Kevin lives, to get to Green River biking. Well, we went biking, and I got a message from a guy named Kevin Carroll while I was biking that day. I was doing steel buildings at the time, and I got this message as, Hey, I hear You're the guy I need to do the erection on these buildings. This is my number. I'm in Moab. Give me a call or stop by anytime. Obviously, I'm pretty hungry when it comes to business. I like it. He was doing that business park out there. I think he said he had six or seven buildings. So automatically, I was like, Yeah, I better go meet this guy. So on my way home from biking that day, I just turned off and went into Moab because it's 30 minutes up the road and called him, met him over there, and he was at his shop and he had an old Spider Tracks, rear steer, not Spider Trax, twisted Customs, rear steer, little buggy, like 103-inch wheelbase, pretty narrow, 4'3 in it, but it was one of the better buggies at the time.

[00:22:27.090] - Jeff McKinlay

I was like, What in the world is that? He said, Well, let me show you. We drove across the highway and he took me up a couple of different rock waterfalls. I just knew right then that that's something I had to do. Obviously, I went over and built those buildings for him, and we did a lot of business together, and we became really good friends crawling together all the time. I actually bought that car that we went and test drove, and he was having a new car built. Craig Ross at Rockworks was building him a new car, and so he sold me that one. His new car was working pretty good, and mine wasn't keeping up. So, man, I did a complete overhaul on that thing. I stretched it out to 1.12. I put 40 spline axles under it. I put an LS motor in it. That's where the conception of the Red Dot car came from. We it out there and it was working real good. Then Kevin said, Hey, bring that back over to the shop. Then him and Gary and Cliff went through it and redesigned a few things on it and put together the actual first Red Dot car.

[00:23:46.120] - Jeff McKinlay

Then from there, him and I just... We built multiple cars after that. We were doing at least one a year and just trying to make them better and trying to make them better. I think that's really what helped evolve Red Dot is Kevin. He He wouldn't sit still. He wanted the best. He wanted to push the industry, and he wanted everybody and their dogs to have rear steer cars so he had more people to play with.

[00:24:11.240] - Big Rich Klein

Interesting. He was quite the outdoorsman as well. Not just wheeling, but anything he could... Like a thrill seeker, almost.

[00:24:25.590] - Jeff McKinlay

Oh, yeah. We rode dirt bikes. We did everything. It didn't matter whether it was an adventure bike, dirt bike, a dirt bike, a trials bike. He had them all and he loved it all. He had his own little cabin up in the mountains. It was clear off the grid and clear away from everything. He'd spend a lot of time up there. He was definitely an outdoorsman.

[00:24:53.770] - Big Rich Klein

Did you ever fly with him?

[00:24:56.070] - Jeff McKinlay

Actually, yeah, because I was flying for quite a while, and he'd come up and fly with me in my plane. I never actually got in his plane with him being the main pilot, but he rode with me a bunch. I had a couple of near-death experiences in mind, and I sold it. It was just too close. Man, a rock Crawler, I can roll it over or fall off a 15-foot cliff, and I'm going to be okay. But in that airplane, There's not a lot of options. He kept flying, and eventually that's what got him. But he was doing what he loves. We all love him for that. I'd like to just tell a couple of things about Kevin that a lot of people probably never knew. He was really serious about making those cars good and making them perfect, making the best car out there. I remember we had the dash going all the way across the rock Crawler, and it limited your vision. I changed the dash on my car and made it to where it just covered the dog house, which is what everybody's doing now. You could see out the right, you could see straight in front of you.

[00:26:20.800] - Jeff McKinlay

I'll tell you what, that guy was so mad at me for making that change. He didn't talk to me for three months. That's He was the way he was. But all it took is we ended up at somewhere where we're both crawling again and we're best buddies again and life goes on. But anybody that's crawled with him knows that you don't spot and you don't help. You better keep up or you're just getting left. When you start a trail with Kevin, and I'll be 100% honest, I am a good Crawler. I have been a good Crawler because of him. Because you start up a trail with him and there's no easy trail when you go with Kevin, but he's not going to come back and help you. Well, if you break or something, he's for sure there. But he's not going to come spot you up something. He's darn sure going to laugh at you when you're not making it. He expects everybody to get their own car there or they don't need to be there with us. He was pretty serious about that. But he was, I There hasn't been anybody since him that would put together wheeling trips, four or five days of the hardest wheeling there is.

[00:27:37.810] - Jeff McKinlay

He used to love to put together those trips, and I look forward to it all the time, and I really do miss that.

[00:27:46.680] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And some of the guys you guys got involved, you want to run down a partial list or something?

[00:27:55.520] - Jeff McKinlay

Well, yeah. Now, Kevin Kevin was really good buddies with Tracy Jordan. They did a lot together, but he was already buddies with Tracy Jordan before I came along. I came along at the tail end of Tracy's crawling. Tracy was always one of Kevin's guys. I think Kevin called Tracy just about every morning at 6:00 in the morning. That was his first call right when he's having his coffee. I think talking to Tracy, I think he really enjoyed that. But I There's Alec Yeager, the Rock Dog, and Justin Kylman. I mean, those were some of our main guys going out there with us and doing all the hard stuff. Then All those guys from the Rat Pack after Walker Evans got older and slowed down, then a lot of those guys from the Rat Pack, then they became the guys who were running around with Jerry Edgar and Doug McBernie and all those guys. Nice.

[00:29:02.140] - Big Rich Klein

Some real talent.

[00:29:04.940] - Jeff McKinlay

Oh, man. Great drivers. Good people, great drivers.

[00:29:10.450] - Big Rich Klein

You came out to WE Rock and gave that a try. Talk about that first time you came out.

[00:29:20.570] - Jeff McKinlay

I came out there and I knew I had the best car in the world. I'm like, This is going to be easy. But what I didn't realize is it was a big car. It wouldn't fit through the gates. I didn't understand the game. I mean, we rocked a really cool sport, but you got to know the ins and outs of it to be competitive. I mean, there's a strategy to it. There's all sorts of rules to it. Man, I went out there the first time and I hit all the cones and got hung up and went full throttle for five or six minutes trying to get off. But it was fun. I realized after the first crawling event that the type people there in the community that's in there, they were just great people. I wanted more of it, but obviously, I knew if I was going to stay in and compete, I had to do something different. So that's when I started doing some of the smaller cars.

[00:30:23.010] - Big Rich Klein

I remember Kevin and I talking about his cars coming in and competing meeting at We Rock and what his goal was. And I said, You got a great all-around car, a great car for going out and doing trail-breaking. But the rock-crawling competitions are a different beast. It may not be the hardest obstacle ever that you'll face, but it's the way we make you have to drive it. You don't have a choice. You can't pick your own line. You've got to drive our line. The thing he always wanted me to do was make the gates wider so his cars would fit better. And I kept telling him, I said, well, then the little single seat rock buggies are going to just be able to make you turns in between the cones. They're going to be able to... They're going to have so much more room. It's not going to really help you. But, man, he would sure force that big car through there. And he podiumed nearly every time he came out.

[00:31:35.980] - Jeff McKinlay

Well, that's all skill. He's as talented a guy as there's been in a car, I think. He ranks right up there with some of the best of them.

[00:31:49.950] - Big Rich Klein

Right. I agree. If we could have just gotten him to try a small car.

[00:31:58.990] - Jeff McKinlay

You I can't believe the rafter crap he gave me with that first small car. We'd take it out wheeling and he'd laugh at it and I'd somehow get it to go where he was going. Some things I'd do a lot easier than him because the small car just fit better. But for the most part, those small cars, when you get out on the big trails, they don't do as well as, well, the Red Dot. And the Red Dot is still a good car today.

[00:32:25.810] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. It's a great trailbreaker car. I mean, for what you got, those doing the gnarliest of the gnarle, you might say.

[00:32:36.360] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah.

[00:32:38.450] - Big Rich Klein

So you're working as a contractor, you're building buildings, you're playing hard. What are some of the other things besides rock crawling that you do?

[00:32:54.050] - Jeff McKinlay

You know what? I still do all this. I mean, I just got back from Texas, just barely. I went over there hunting and went to Katemcy Rocks and played over there at that Top Gun deal. Man, what an awesome place over there at Katemcy. But yeah, I still do all the same stuff I did. Now my kids are grown up and I'm a grandpa now. But I spent a lot of years and it actually made it to where I couldn't compete as much as I wanted to because I was so involved in my daughter's basketball. I was helping coach that and I made sure not to miss any of their games. I coached the boys through football. I even helped coach on the high school team. Our school got its first state championship with the kids that I started coaching them in fourth grade and coached them all the way through to seniors, and they actually won a whole bunch of championships as kids from fourth grade to eighth grade, and then ultimately ended up winning the state championship, too. I was heavily involved in that for, man, 10, 12 years, and that consumed a lot of my life.

[00:34:10.440] - Jeff McKinlay

Then after I was done coaching football, my business had suffered. I was still rock crawling, but then I had to go back to work real hard and build the company back up. I feel like I did it right because I spent as much time with my kids as they were growing up. I still do. But I remember at my youngest son, Kade's funeral, the amount of people that came and saw all the pictures and all the different stuff, and they're just saying, You know what? You did more with that kid in 17 years than most people do with their kids in their entire life. And that was a compliment. I really feel good about that.

[00:34:55.110] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. And that's the way it should be. Yeah Yeah, I coached Little Rich through football up till high school. I didn't help with high school, but I still made most of his practices and all of his games. But I can remember that, well, eight years old, seven, eight years old, playing Boys and Girls Club down in the San Francisco Bay Area. I cherish those times. They're real important.

[00:35:30.300] - Jeff McKinlay

Oh, for sure. Yep, the bonds you make with your kids when they're young, help ensure that you'll have the bond as they grow older and have their own kids, and they still want to keep coming around and spend that time with you.

[00:35:50.670] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly. So you rode motorcycles and snowmobiled a lot, too, right?

[00:35:59.560] - Jeff McKinlay

Oh, yeah. Yep, every chance I get.

[00:36:02.410] - Big Rich Klein

And when you were younger, you rode motocross. You competed?

[00:36:07.350] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, I raced a bunch. And one of a few things, a couple of different arena crosses is about the highest I got up in there. But yeah, it was fun. It's still a passion of mine. I still try to go once a week on a big eight, nine hour ride.

[00:36:26.150] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Very nice. And you're up in Rexburg now?

[00:36:32.270] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, I'm in Rigby. I'm between Rexburg and Idaho Falls. Okay.

[00:36:37.720] - Big Rich Klein

And what's the future look like for the McKinley family?

[00:36:44.510] - Jeff McKinlay

Man, I'm liking the grandkid thing. I hope we get lots more of those. And I've got a place down in St. George now, and I'm trying to spend a lot of the winters down there since When he passed away in that avalanche, it gives me claustrophobia, and it really takes me out of who I am. I'm a pretty ornery, negative person when I'm in the snow. My wife was She's awesome. She was smart enough to realize that. Her and I went down and bought a house in St. George, and then we go down to St. George for most of the winter. We'll be around for the holidays and different stuff, but we just try to stay out of the snow now. It makes us both happier to not be in the snow. But in the summer months, there's not a better place to live than up here in Southeastern, Idaho.

[00:37:45.400] - Big Rich Klein

So you're in St. George, or are you in Hurricane like everyone else?

[00:37:52.870] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, I've got a place in Dixie Spring, just below the park. And there's a reason for that, obviously. So I'm right close to all the crawling.

[00:38:01.780] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Everybody, that's like Crawler Central.

[00:38:07.910] - Jeff McKinlay

Oh, yeah. For sure. There's a lot of guys there. I mean, there's actually a lot of guys right in there that have my cars now.

[00:38:17.530] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Yeah. And how many cars have you guys produced?

[00:38:24.880] - Jeff McKinlay

I think there's been 27 chassis go out now.

[00:38:31.160] - Big Rich Klein

Wow.

[00:38:32.560] - Jeff McKinlay

There's a few of those that aren't done yet, but we're out to 27, I think.

[00:38:38.550] - Big Rich Klein

That's pretty good. And are those all two-seaters, single-seaters?

[00:38:45.440] - Jeff McKinlay

No, the majority of them are two-seaters, but there's five. There's six of my little... That new one I interviewed last year, there's six of those out there now. Okay.

[00:38:59.490] - Big Rich Klein

And how did you do at the Texas Top Gun shootout?

[00:39:05.280] - Jeff McKinlay

I think I did real good. In qualifiers, I think Caleb went second and I went sixth, and we were the only two that actually made it through the whole qualifier course. Then nobody was getting through, nobody was getting through. Then they decided... Because it had rained a couple of days before and it was putting mud on the rocks, but we figured out how to keep our tires off the rocks, and the other guys weren't. But then they ended up pausing and saying, Okay, we're thinking about rolling this big rock into the mud hole so we can get more guys through. We let them do that, but they were real good about it. They said, Caleb and Jeff won't lose their positions. They'll be the top two qualifiers. There was guys that actually, after we put that rock in, Jake Bowen and Earl both had faster times than Caleb and I did because they ended up finishing. But anyways, our qualifying spot stayed as the top two. Then so on, the the next day on the first course, you get 15 minutes. I think everybody that went through was at least 12 minutes on the first course, and Caleb and I both did it in right at five minutes.

[00:40:29.080] - Jeff McKinlay

We We were sitting pretty good going into the second course. On the second course, well, 9 out of the 10 made it through to the second course. Caleb and I were the last two to go, but some rocks got moved around and it took a long time because there were some pretty severe breaks on one obstacle. Then Caleb and I both went out on the second course because we got into a banner. But I've talked with a few of the guys on it now, and they're new to it. They're learning as they go down there. I got to tell you, Rich, anybody that wants to go have just a great time wheeling and in a great place, there's no better people than those guys down there in Texas. They are awesome. I would recommend it to anybody.

[00:41:26.610] - Big Rich Klein

I agree. Totally. Yeah.

[00:41:27.730] - Jeff McKinlay

But anyways, so what took us out is they used banners to keep you on course and on the obstacle. Well, you know what happens when you got a 100-foot banner, 12 feet wide? It's pretty hard to stay out of those with the Crawler. I think they're going to maybe try to use some feathers and stuff to upgrade the courses and the competition. But I'm telling you, I have no regrets. I'd go do that again. I was able to shoot two really nice white tail bucks with my bow when I went over there. Man, I can't wait to go back there again next year.

[00:42:07.710] - Big Rich Klein

Very good. You got the white tails on one of the local ranches nearby?

[00:42:15.300] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, there's a place about two hours away that I got in contact with, and they helped me get my Texas license. They're an outfitter. Yeah, they had it set up. They had some corn feeders out there feeding the deer, and that kept them real close. It was just an amazing hunt.

[00:42:35.240] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. I know when we did a dirt riot race out there, a couple of the guys wanted to hunt, so they borrowed my rifle, and they got a couple of pigs and a bouffon. I think I'm pronouncing it right, one of the sheep. Yes. And hunted with one of the outfitters nearby.

[00:43:00.330] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, that's awesome. That makes it fun when you can go to a competition and do something like that for sure. Right.

[00:43:10.200] - Big Rich Klein

Anything else that you got going or you're doing that people might want to hear about? How about your grandkids? You got one so far or more?

[00:43:22.460] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, I just have one. I think she's just over 17 months. And boy, I'll tell you what, I'm glad she loves her papa because I sure love her. Awesome. My wife and I, we come up with all sorts of excuses to go see her and hang around with her. And this last summer, we helped my daughter and her husband remodel a house, and they've got another one on the way now. We got them into a nice place now. Well, we didn't. We just helped them remodel it. My son-in-law, he works a large farmer over here. Well, he doesn't work for him. His family owns a large farm over here, and so he's part of a big farming outfit, the Crapos. But then Trey, my second oldest, we're just in the final stages of finishing his first house. He got married this last summer, and I've been helping him build a house this summer, and he should move into it right after Thanksgiving. And so hopefully they get settled in and I get some grandkids on that side, too.

[00:44:35.850] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. And you'll keep building steel buildings?

[00:44:42.010] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, for now. Between Trey and my main guy that's worked for me for years. The company is eventually going to go to them, but we don't have an exact timeline on when that's going to happen, but it it won't be too much longer before I'm getting out of it. But I have multiple other businesses that run their South. This is bad to say, but I don't think I've worked much past noon for three years now, so it's not like it's real hard work.

[00:45:19.160] - Big Rich Klein

There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Having multiple revenue streams can make life easier.

[00:45:29.660] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah. Yeah. Then so with not working as much as I used to, I picked up golf here probably five or six years ago, and I get out there quite a bit. It's pretty fun. I love that it's... That's probably a good thing to say because I don't know if a lot of people know or understand this, but just say you get on a motorcycle and you're going to go for a four-hour ride. Now, It takes all your focus and all of your attention. Your mind is in other places. Your mind isn't thinking about work. It's not thinking about what you're doing the next day. I mean, you're focused. You got to do that. I feel the same way when I'm crawling. I feel the same way if I'm riding a snow machine. Even golf does it for me, too, is it just resets my mind and gives me that reprieve from all the day-to-day stress. You know what I mean? It I feel like it just resets me and helps me to be a better person because I get rid of that stress for 2 hours or 4 hours or whatever it is.

[00:46:43.060] - Big Rich Klein

I'd have to agree. I can't say that golf would be something I would ever take up. I tried it in the '90s. I had a guy working for me, an assistant manager, that tried to convince me to go out play golf. And for two weeks, we went to the driving range and I hit buckets of balls. And I realized then that it was not something that I was going to master real easily, or it came to me naturally. So I decided after two weeks of hitting balls that it was not the sport for me because whenever I do something, I have to do it at a high level. I'm not happy unless I master it. And I realized that golf was going to be one of those that I could do for a hundred years and probably never master it. And I watch professional golfers out there, the guys that are the masters, and they still, they'll shank one or whatever. And it's like, I just couldn't handle that. I mean, I was to the point where I wanted to throw clubs just at the driving range. So it was like, this is not a good sport for me.

[00:48:05.440] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, I know guys like that for sure. I'm the same way. I jumped in and decided, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to be good at it. And It took two or three years, but I finally got it down to where I'm a single handicapper, and I can usually shoot under 80, and I've been under par, and I just enjoy it. Yeah, I'll go out there and I'll have those days where the ball just doesn't go where I thought I was hitting it. It also builds character, too. It's a character builder. If you can go out there and deal with a subpar round of golf and still be a good, happy, positive person, then that's all good. But if you let it eat you up inside, you need to work on that. You know what I mean?

[00:48:56.690] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that's me. There's a reason I don't compete in that I was an event promoter, because I'm not a good competitor. I'm terrible if I win because I'm going to let you know about it. And then when I lose, I'm even worse. I wasn't cut out to be a competitor. Shelley one time down at Sand Hollow, Charlene Bower (**correction Valerie Douglas)  put on this this two-lap race thing that we did. And the first lap was just going around the course. And then we had obstacles that we had to do along the way, driving blindfolded with your navigator, helping you get through the obstacle, things like that. And I'm like, I really don't think we should do this. And she's like, Come on, it'll be fun. And I'm like, no, there's a reason. I don't even play board games with the kids. There's no way. I just don't do it. And she was like, no, it'll be fun. We'll do this and we'll write an article for the magazine about it. Well, I think the article in the magazine ended up being more about me and not competing with somebody that really isn't a good competitor. Because when we went out on the first lap, we were the, I don't remember how many cars there were, but we were the third to the last to go out.

[00:50:35.110] - Big Rich Klein

So two cars behind me. The first car passes me up and I'm like, All right. And then Ryan Miller in this little TJ went flying past me. And so then that was it. Now I'm in the back of the pack. Everybody's past me. And I'm like, all right. So I start picking up speed. And my Jeep is built for slow speed. There's no up travel in the shocks whatsoever. I had like an inch, maybe an inch and a half of up travel. And the ride is getting really roughed. And Shelly goes, What are you doing? And I said, We're in last place. And Shelly goes, It doesn't matter where we're at. And I'm like, Yeah, Ryan Miller just passed us. And she goes, It doesn't matter. On the first lap, she made me stop for half an hour and eat lunch. And I was pulling my hair out. So we continue. We get through the first lap. We're I was only maybe a mile into the second lap, and I stuffed a rim in a spot where I knew that this could happen, and I blew a rim up, and our day was done. And we never even got to any of the points where you got to work together as a team.

[00:51:48.040] - Big Rich Klein

She was not happy. Let's just put it that way. But now she understands when I say, No, I don't want to compete. She understands. She gets it. Yeah.

[00:51:59.180] - Jeff McKinlay

Well, I I've been around you long enough that I can say I'm glad you became a promoter because you're what made We Rock for me. I mean, it was one of those things that you were the guy. You could call and have a conversation. Even in the heat of the battle, you could still talk to me, even if I was frustrated over something and you were super logical, you stayed calm, unlike what you're talking about. It made for a great... What do you call it? It just made for a good experience for me just having you there, knowing that you were there and you were just steady and consistent. Even though I would mess up and get mad, I knew that, Okay, this is the way it's going to be, and that's the way it'll always be because Rich says so, and you could trust that. And I stayed with it and fought it and fought it. And I think, was it 2019 or 2020 that I made a clean sweep on the season, won all the events?

[00:53:12.030] - Big Rich Klein

Right. I don't remember which year it was, but I do remember that happening. Yeah.

[00:53:17.440] - Jeff McKinlay

I'm thankful you're there or were there. You made it awesome for me and I'm sure for a lot of other people. And, man, you've meant a lot to the to the rock sports industry. And gosh, it's good to know you and be a part of it.

[00:53:36.660] - Big Rich Klein

Well, I appreciate that. One of the things that I always tried to do is be consistent, and it didn't matter who I was having to deal with. Rules were rules, and it didn't matter if you were the best driver or if it was your first time out. The rule, to me, was black and white, and I would explain why the rule was written the way it was, and I would hold to it, and it didn't matter. It didn't matter if I was having that conversation with somebody that was one of our marketing partners, or if it was Jessie, or Tracy, or yourself, or like I said, somebody that I can't even remember their name because it was their first time out. The rule was written and the rule was called the same way every time. Consistency meant something.

[00:54:29.580] - Jeff McKinlay

I with that. Yep, you're 100% right. That's the way it was for me working with you.

[00:54:37.670] - Big Rich Klein

Well, I appreciate that. You're up in You're up in Idaho right now, right?

[00:54:47.290] - Jeff McKinlay

Yep, I'm in Idaho. We head to St. George a week from Saturday.

[00:54:52.860] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Then you're snowbirding it then?

[00:54:57.170] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah, then we snowbird. We'll come home for the Christmas New Year's holidays and head back down.

[00:55:03.150] - Big Rich Klein

Awesome. Jeff, I really appreciate you taking the time today and talking about your life and everything that you've done and the people that you've done it with. I really appreciate you taking the time.

[00:55:20.440] - Jeff McKinlay

Yeah. Thanks for having me on there. It was good to chat with you and get to talk a little bit about Kevin. We don't get to do that a whole lot anymore. I I still do every chance I get. I'm just happy for all the people that are pushing the rock sports industry. I love it. I hope I'm doing good for it. Thank you.

[00:55:43.000] - Big Rich Klein

Well, you take care and have a great day and love on that granddaughter.

[00:55:48.610] - Jeff McKinlay

Will do.

[00:55:49.470] - Big Rich Klein

Thanks, Rich. All right. You take care. Bye-bye.

[00:55:51.520] - Jeff McKinlay

See you.

[00:55:52.660] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and Leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.