Conversations with Big Rich

Episode 243 with Keri and Paul Porter of Discover 4x4

Guest Paul Porter and Keri Porter Season 5 Episode 243

We love couples that work together. Paul and Keri Porter have been together since high school, now with the kids grown, they’ve dropped into four-wheel drive with a vengeance. Training trips, shows, and adventures keep them away from home for more than half the year. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

8:35 – It was definitely a struggle in those days, but we had a lot of fun. 

16:49 – I got invited to the Badlands with a girlfriend and came home and told Paul he needed to buy me a Jeep             

21:14 – They told us it had a lift on it; it didn’t but we didn’t know what we didn’t know

26:20 – During the club years we met so many who bought this adventure vehicle and didn’t know what to do with it

30:57 – Our business had two parts, we run adventure trips and offer training courses

37:23 – we’ve got big rig trips and beginner trips and not much in between, so we’re trying to fill that gap

46:22 – I love KOH, but I’m thankful we had something to do because we’re not people who just sit around 

Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

 

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[00:00:00.200] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

 


[00:00:46.570] - 

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[00:01:13.040] - 

Have you seen 4Low magazine yet? 4low magazine is a high-quality, well-written, four-wheel drive-focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4LOW is the magazine for you. 4LOW cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4lOW magazine.com to order your subscription today.

 


[00:01:39.670] - Big Rich Klein

On this episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I'll be talking with Paul and Keri Porter, high school sweethearts married with now-grown children who have decided to trade in that 9:00 to 5:00 lifestyle and go all in with the four-wheel drive lifestyle. Paul and Keri Porter. It's so good to have you guys here on the podcast. Keri, I know you from the Rebelle, Paul. I'm not sure if we met during the gala, if you came out to the gala?

 


[00:02:13.300] - Paul Porter

I think five years ago, it was real brief, we shared a car ride, actually. Okay. Yeah, I got to fanboy over you a little bit.

 


[00:02:21.890] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's funny because I'm just like anybody else. I've been in deep into this stuff for a lot years, but I put my pants on one leg at a time like everybody else. So it always cracks me up when people come up or say something like that because I don't feel that I should be special to anybody about being that fanboy type stuff. But thank you. So let's jump in. I know you guys were born in Michigan. You want to talk about those early years?

 


[00:02:59.810] - Paul Porter

Sure. Yeah, I'll let Keri talk about that.

 


[00:03:02.210] - Keri Porter

So I was actually born in Arkansas. My parents moved to Michigan when I was about six months old. And so then I was raised in the Temperance, Michigan, area. My dad worked at a horse bedding racetrack in Toledo, Ohio, which is just over the state line from us. And so I used to spend sometimes my weekend night at the horse track with my dad.

 


[00:03:27.370] - Paul Porter

Yeah. And then we ended up meeting in high school, actually. Kind of high school sweethearts, and we're not tired of each other yet.

 


[00:03:37.190] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. Are you guys, were you in the same grade in high school?

 


[00:03:43.660] - Paul Porter

No, she's kinda robbing the cradle. She graduated one year before me, so we started dating when I was 15 and she was 16. My parents used to drive me over to her parents house so many years ago, and We started dating way back then, and it just seemed natural after high school. We got engaged and got married. We've never gotten tired of each other all these years.

 


[00:04:09.200] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, that's pretty good. That's excellent. So what was school like for you, Paul? Were you a good student?

 


[00:04:17.800] - Paul Porter

No, I would not call myself a good student. I was the jock, but I was a friend of everybody type of person. I hung out with the goth crowd and the jocks and everybody else because I did sports up until I met Keri, and then my attention was more put towards her after that.

 


[00:04:36.900] - Big Rich Klein

You said goth. You hung out with everybody. Yeah. Okay. That's a term that I haven't heard in a while, that's all.

 


[00:04:44.490] - Paul Porter

No, I think they call it something else now, but yeah. No doubt. Definitely alternative my whole life.

 


[00:04:51.510] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And Keri, how about you? Were you a good student?

 


[00:04:56.730] - Keri Porter

I was good enough to get by. I didn't like doing homework, but I was a teacher's pet. I really enjoyed doing special projects and volunteering in class. So in that aspect, that was good. Never liked to get in trouble, but I didn't like really doing homework a whole lot.

 


[00:05:15.500] - Big Rich Klein

I can understand that. I was the same way. Luckily, I took tests really well. Don't know why. Never studied hard. What about sports, Keri? Did you participate in sports in high school?

 


[00:05:31.380] - Keri Porter

Not sports in school. I'm from a family of five, and my dad works second shift, so it was really hard on my mom to run us back and forth all the time or whatever. But I did martial arts for quite a few years, and then I participated in the Color Guard in High School, and that was about it. Okay.

 


[00:05:53.390] - Big Rich Klein

And Paul, you said you were athletic. You played sports?

 


[00:05:57.410] - Paul Porter

Yeah. I was a football guy up until 10th grade, and then started two days, and it was too much time away from my new girlfriend, so I dropped out then. So it was football and a little wrestling in junior high.

 


[00:06:11.570] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And let's move forward a little bit into college. Any college background? Yeah.

 


[00:06:21.440] - Paul Porter

For us, no. We just got married at 19 and no college. We just started having a family and worked in a good construction in high school and thought that's what I was going to do. But I was meeting guys that were in their 40s making $10 an hour, and I decided I didn't want that for my family. So the church I went to, the pastor was actually own a print shop. So he invited me to come get a trade there. So I've learned how to be a print operator, and that's what I did for probably eight years. That's how we started the family. Okay.

 


[00:06:58.170] - Big Rich Klein

And Keri, did you Did you work early then?

 


[00:07:02.240] - Keri Porter

Yeah, I worked when we first got married, but we had our first child within the first year of our marriage. It was actually 10 days before our one year anniversary. I always knew I wanted to be a stay at home mom, so as soon as we had her, I then became a stay at home mom. So as soon as we had her, I then became a stay at home mom. And then I did things like child care and baking and things like that on the side to make additional money. But my focus was always wanting to be with the kids when I could. Okay.

 


[00:07:32.380] - Big Rich Klein

A little story. My mom was born a week shy, or it was nine months in one week. From when my grandparents got married. And my great-grandfather asked my grandfather, What took you so long? And he said, Practicing.

 


[00:07:56.860] - Keri Porter

That's funny.

 


[00:07:58.820] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I always got a kick out of that. I don't know how true that was, but my grandfather could spin a yarn. So then you're working in a print shop, Paul. You're trying to raise a young family. You guys are young yourselves. You got married at 19, so kids right there at 20. Was there a lot of struggle back then? I know that when I got married, and I was 25, I think, the first time I got married, it was a lot of struggle.

 


[00:08:35.640] - Paul Porter

It was definitely a lot of struggle in those days, but we knew that we wanted Keri to be home with the kids. So, yeah, it made things hard. We didn't have cell phones, we didn't have cable, we had real basics. I had a $400 Chevy Cavalier that I bought off my sister. We bought a duplex, actually, so we rent it out one half. So it basically paid our mortgage for us because I was making a whole seven dollars an hour back then. But it was a struggle. But we had a lot of fun. I don't know. Yeah, we struggled to make the mortgage, but the family time, it made us be okay with everything. Yeah, it was definitely a struggle sometimes. But fortunately, we both have good parents that helped us out from time to time, and that means a lot to us.

 


[00:09:26.240] - Big Rich Klein

And Kerry, how are your feelings about those early years?

 


[00:09:30.520] - Keri Porter

I love to be in at home with the kids. I miss that now, in a sense. But they say it goes by really fast, and they're not kidding. When my kids started to get into school, I then started to work in the school system. I was a teacher's aide for a couple of months, and that got laid off. And the school that they were in was looking for a bus driver, and they It was a very small charter school anyway. So then the principal approached me and asked if I'd be interested in driving school bus. So I did that for nearly 15 years while my kids were in school. I was part of the PTT, President of the PTT for a couple of years, and really put on quite a few of the events at the school. I'm just a very family-focused person, and just the time with my kids was... I could have done anything just as long as I was able to make my family work the way I wanted it to. That's pretty much what I did. I've had many, many part-time jobs doing many, many different things. And just as long as I could do it on my terms, that's what I wanted.

 


[00:10:53.350] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. And how many kids do you guys have?

 


[00:10:57.660] - Paul Porter

Yes, we have three kids who are all grown now. We're talking about our young days. You're talking late '90s, early 2000s. So, yeah, our kids are all two years apart, and we now have four grandkids between our two daughters. And so we have two daughters and a son that's in the middle. And, yeah, so things are just progressing forward quick, and we actually love the grandkid time.

 


[00:11:23.350] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. And everybody's still in the same area?

 


[00:11:28.520] - Paul Porter

Yes.

 


[00:11:29.570] - Keri Porter

Yes. Which is the big reason why we haven't gone on the road full-time, because I'm not willing to step out of the area when everybody's still here. Okay.

 


[00:11:41.230] - Big Rich Klein

Makes sense.

 


[00:11:42.160] - Paul Porter

We're currently doing roughly 20 to 25 trips a year or events, and so we're gone a lot. And so we've talked about selling the house numerous times because it just sits here. But yeah, we haven't been able to pull the trigger. I got serious about it last year, and Kerry definitely said, Well, hold up, let's not do this quite yet. I want a place for the grandkids to go to come over and hang out. So that didn't happen last year. I called her bluff, I feel like. She was down with it at first.

 


[00:12:16.930] - Big Rich Klein

The going on the road full-time is an interesting thing. I did a lot of the trips out and back for the first 10 years or so. And then when Shelle and I met and got together, she knew that she was retiring when her youngest graduated from high school. So we went on the road. At that point, we rented the house out and took off. And it made it easier doing events that way because we could just keep on the road instead of having to make that extra trip back and cost-wise and all that. But there wasn't a lot of grandkids in the picture then, and our kids are all spread out across the United States, so it wasn't like they were all in hometown. So that made a big difference.

 


[00:13:23.120] - Paul Porter

Yeah, makes sense.

 


[00:13:25.410] - Big Rich Klein

Then let's talk about some of those jobs. Did How long did you stay with the print business?

 


[00:13:34.670] - Paul Porter

I did that for right around eight years. And then the company I was working for tried to grow too much, and they actually ended up closing and got bought out by the bank. They're still around, but just they're very small. And I had the opportunity to actually go. Another guy I went to church with owns State Farm Agency, so he asked me to come do that. At At the time, my dad was a welder his whole life in a factory, and his body was beat up because of that. So I thought, maybe I want to get away from doing physical work. So I decided I would try to sell insurance, and I did that for eight years. But you realize the downfall with... I was trying to save my body, so I was good for years. And problem is then you sit at a desk and you get fat. So you're doomed either way. So after that, I actually got job as a maintenance guy in a factory, and I did that for a number of years. I actually really enjoyed doing that. Finally, was making a good income at the factory, and I was grateful for that opportunity.

 


[00:14:44.100] - Paul Porter

I would do that. And then actually, when I did insurance, I started... That was during our time we started getting into off-roading in Jeeps and stuff. So I was wrenched on the side to try to help keep us afloat. And so I would... Most days I'd work nine to five at the insurance place, and I would come home and work from 6:00 in the evening till midnight, 1:00, 2:00 in the morning, and get up and head into the insurance place with greasy hands just to make ends meet during those days. The kids were getting to be teenagers, and there was a lot more cost then.

 


[00:15:13.210] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Yeah. They don't get cheaper, do they?

 


[00:15:15.970] - Paul Porter

No, they don't. You think diapers are bad, and then you start paying car insurance. That's a whole other story.

 


[00:15:22.000] - Big Rich Klein

Then it's that back to school shopping.

 


[00:15:24.770] - Paul Porter

Yeah, exactly.

 


[00:15:25.940] - Big Rich Klein

Because everybody's got to have what's cool.

 


[00:15:29.050] - Paul Porter

Exactly.

 


[00:15:30.020] - Big Rich Klein

And Cari, how about you? You said you had a whole bunch of different part-time jobs.

 


[00:15:37.170] - Keri Porter

Yeah. So like I said earlier, I was a school bus driver for 15 years, but he also drove nights and weekends for a limousine service in the area. For about seven years, I owned my own business company, cleaning and organizing for residential homes. I had about six employees, and we would clean and organized in between my school bus runs. So that was one thing. I've waited tables. I've, I don't know, I worked at a lawn care plowing shop, just working in their shop, prepping their vehicles before they go out on the road, auditing her insurance policies. I've done just a lot of different things. Office work, I've done administrative assistance type work So, yeah, really just anything to make it work.

 


[00:16:33.880] - Big Rich Klein

Cool. Now, you said you got into off road right around the time the kids were in high school, it sounded like. What vehicles were you driving before that? Yeah.

 


[00:16:49.200] - Keri Porter

Actually, we got into off roading when our kids were young. Our youngest was three at the time when we first got into off roading. And I had a girlfriend who invited me on a weekend trip with her and her brother. They had off-roaded. We actually went to the Badlands in Indiana and spent the weekend just camping and off-roading in her little red TJ, which she still owns today, over 20 years later. And, yeah, just had a great time. And then I came home and told Pauly he needed to buy me a Jeep. So, yeah, it was an expensive It's a weekend for him.

 


[00:17:31.390] - Big Rich Klein

Without even being there. Yes.

 


[00:17:34.600] - Keri Porter

Yeah, yeah.

 


[00:17:36.640] - Paul Porter

Before that, I think we were into... We always been a car guy. My dad was a car guy. We didn't watch sports. It was more Not that we were super heavy in the cars, but I was out wrenching because they didn't have a lot of money either. So we were always fixing stuff together. My dad was pretty handy. And yeah, so we had, I don't know, pretty basic cars, Cavaliers and Sebrings. I always wanted a tuner car. I was obsessed about that for a little while, but never really did that. We really never had any fun cars before that. My dad had an old CJ back when we were first married that we used to take to the dunes, but it wasn't ours.

 


[00:18:20.520] - Big Rich Klein

Was that the dunes on the west side of the state?

 


[00:18:24.530] - Paul Porter

Yeah, exactly. Silver Lake Sand Dunes. Silver Lake, yes. It's not a huge place, But definitely when you bring up Michigan, usually it's people bring up, go into the dunes. That's probably one of the more popular areas. It's a lot of fun. It's small enough that you do a half a day and you've done everything. But there's enough cool vehicles there that you can just go sit on a hill and watch vehicles go by, and it's just beautiful. And then the little town there, there's the Lighthouse and the ice cream shops and all that stuff, which makes for a really good weekend. We were doing that even before we had off-road vehicle. And that's why my dad bought that CJ after going there three or four times. He said, We need to get our own off-road vehicle. So he found a $800 CJ7 at no top or doors or anything like that. But he found it at a little automotive place down the road here for sale. And that was our experience to get us out onto the dunes there. Okay.

 


[00:19:22.750] - Big Rich Klein

And so then after going to the Badlands, Kerry, how successful were you talking Paul into a Getting a Jeep?

 


[00:19:31.960] - Keri Porter

I would say we had a Jeep within two or three weeks after that.

 


[00:19:36.730] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, you're pretty convincing.

 


[00:19:38.880] - Paul Porter

Yeah. It was not going to take a lot of twist in my arm. I was already in the quads at the time, and I got to leave in the family four or five times a year, I'd leave and go ride the dunes a lot, actually, with the four-wheeler. And I was like, okay, I need to find something that the family can do together. And so when she mentioned getting a Jeep, I thought that's a great idea. I'm going to sell the little four-wheeler I had. And that was our deposit on that first Jeep we bought, which was a TJ with a four-cylinder. It only had 65,000 miles on it. And I don't know, we probably only paid four or five grand for that thing.

 


[00:20:15.760] - Keri Porter

Yeah, it was around four grand. We bought it at night and we thought it was navy blue. And then we woke up the next morning and found out it was purple. It was one of that first colors where you looked at it and you're like, is that navy or is that purple? In the sunlight, it definitely showed up as purple.

 


[00:20:32.630] - Big Rich Klein

And what did you think the next morning? Like, Oh, darn.

 


[00:20:37.300] - Paul Porter

I missed. Yeah.

 


[00:20:39.530] - Keri Porter

Neither one of us are fans of purple vehicles.

 


[00:20:42.120] - Big Rich Klein

Did you put pink highlights on it? No. That's one of the fads that drives me nuts, is the fluorescent green, orange, or pink highlights on vehicles nowadays. Yes. I don't get it.

 


[00:21:03.290] - Paul Porter

No.

 


[00:21:04.150] - Big Rich Klein

Then you guys get into jeeping, and it was pretty much stock?

 


[00:21:14.210] - Paul Porter

Yeah. So that Our first vehicle, the guy we bought it from, we didn't know anything about it. But that friend that Kerry went with off roading, her brother John, who's now become basically one of my best friends. Pretty much all the trips do with our friends, he's there with us. We've been doing it for years and years, but we didn't know anything. And the guy told us it had a lift kit on it and told us some other features that it had. And of course, I bring it home and I immediately took it over to my buddy John's house to show it off. And he gets underneath it. He's like, there's no lift on this thing. He just put 31-inch tires to make it a little bit taller. And we had no idea what we didn't know. So my first lift, I think, was just we I saved up for just putting little budget blocks on and maybe went to a 33-inch tire. And we only use that Jeep for about six months before I realized it was really underpowered. And then we ended up buying our first real Jeep, which we ran for eight years, which was a black TJ with a six-cylinder manual trans.

 


[00:22:19.190] - Paul Porter

And I can remember still saving up for that first lift kit. I'm a dealer-dealer type person, and we didn't have a lot of money. So I remember buying some used shocks and buying some springs. I went to a lift kit online and these are the components. And so I just pieced together the components, then went to a 33-inch tire with that maybe two and a half or three-inch lift is what we first had on that thing.

 


[00:22:44.250] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. So Yeah. And then you still just doing the sand dunes, or were you going out trail wheeling other areas?

 


[00:22:55.210] - Paul Porter

Yeah, so trail wheeling, back in those days, there wasn't a lot. Within four or five hours of us, you pretty much had the Badlands in Indiana, which is a park, and it offers a little bit of everything. They have a little rock quarry area. They have a sandy area. They've got some trails. It's a good park for getting your feet wet. And then pretty much it was that and the dunes. Now, nowadays, there's probably another four off road parks that have come up in Michigan. They've all went around for probably a good 15 years now. But back in the early days, it was pretty much the Dunes and the Badlands. And the Badlands was five hours, the Dunes was four hours from us. But those were your choices back then. But a lot more has popped up over the past 15 years around here So are your kids into off-road as well?

 


[00:23:50.900] - Keri Porter

No, they're not. Our two oldest kids, both of their first vehicles was a Cherokee, and they thought that great until they had to start putting gas in it every week. Those didn't last that long. Our son is into drifting. He likes the drift scene, which would be a fun sport to experience. But car sports are expensive.

 


[00:24:18.500] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, yeah.

 


[00:24:20.300] - Keri Porter

Yeah. So I've been afraid to dip my toes into that because I've already got one expensive hobby. I don't need a second one.

 


[00:24:26.370] - Paul Porter

I feel like our oldest daughter would and will maybe get into off-roading again once. Her kids are really young, two and three. And so she's just trying to get by like we were in the early days, but she has expressed interest in getting out with us. I've had the idea of maybe just kicking around the idea of getting a cheap JK or something like that on 33s or 35s just to be able to get her back out with us again, because I think we love having the grandkids, and I think If we can help facilitate that, I think that's something that could be fun. Excellent.

 


[00:25:05.960] - Big Rich Klein

So then you guys, at some point, decided to make off-road more of a lifestyle instead of just a hobby. How did that progression work?

 


[00:25:22.930] - Keri Porter

So we started a club in our area, actually a couple of different clubs. So we had called the Glass City Crawlers that really took off. And Pauley was President of that for seven years. And we did a lot of event planning and trip planning and trail guiding and things like that in that seven years. There wasn't really a whole lot of people in the club that would step up to do the off-roading weekends. And we did at least one a month when we were running the club or whatever. But when our kids started to get older, I started look for full-time work and couldn't really find anything in the off-road industry that was in our area. So we had tossed around the idea of maybe giving this a go, seeing If this is a feasible business to run.

 


[00:26:20.350] - Paul Porter

During the club years, we would meet so many people that would say, Hey, I bought this Tacoma, or I bought this Wrangler, or whatever, three, four years ago, and I just had no idea where to go. How do you even put it in four-wheel drive? You'd meet so many people, and we hear that story over and over and over again. They bought this adventure vehicle, but we don't know what to do with it. So we thought there's a need for this, and Our passion really is getting people out and seeing them off road, getting excited, pushing their elements. We've had numerous people that get done doing stuff with us and say, That was the most fun I've ever had in my life, which just blows me away when we hear comments like that. So we knew there was a desire for it and a need for it. So that's what we thought. Let's start this, not just in our area. Let's try to get out a little more and make this a business all throughout the US more.

 


[00:27:15.660] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And when you made that step, did you go in full-time, hard core into it, or did you start in the shallow low-end and you work your way into the deep end?

 


[00:27:34.030] - Paul Porter

Well, I think I'm two and a half years now that I've been full-time with Discover 4x4. We probably spent a year where we were trying to do long weekends over and over. And fortunately, I had a job where I was on a 4:10 work schedule, so I only work Monday through Thursday. So I was taking a vacation day on a Thursday or a Monday to try to make these weekends work with the business. And probably a year and a half in, I basically was halfway through the year and I was out of vacation time. And it was a union shop, so I just went to them and said, Look, I'll stay around if you guys can give me more vacation time. But the union shops, the rules are the rules. I said, Well, I guess I need to part ways and we're going to try to make this a go full-time. So our kids were moved out, so we weren't as concerned about making a bunch of money. So that made it easier for sure. And then Kerry can talk to you about when she went full-time.

 


[00:28:38.230] - Keri Porter

Yeah. So when we started the business, I was working part time for a gentleman as an executive assistant. He was out of our area, but he didn't necessarily care whether I was in the office or not. So a lot of my work could be done remotely. So when we started the business, I was doing that until So it was probably two years.

 


[00:29:04.080] - Paul Porter

No. Yeah.

 


[00:29:04.830] - Keri Porter

Yeah, two years. So I worked part-time for two years. And it was great because that money actually covered our bills and the business. We weren't so concerned about having to pay the bills with our business, specifically. So that was a really nice segue into becoming full-time.

 


[00:29:24.770] - Big Rich Klein

So one question I have for you. Was your time in roller derby, did it help at all in the off-road business?

 


[00:29:37.990] - Keri Porter

That's an interesting question.

 


[00:29:41.540] - Big Rich Klein

I thought that might be a stumper.

 


[00:29:44.310] - Paul Porter

Yeah.

 


[00:29:44.920] - Keri Porter

I would say some because you definitely have to learn endurance and being able to push when it comes to push and shove. But Roller Derby really got me out of my shell, and so did the rebel. I was a stay at home mom for so many years, and I'm not really somebody who likes to be in the limelight necessarily. The part about The part I love about our business is just creating experiences for everybody. So Roller Derby helped me get out of my shell in the sense that it's okay to be out in front of people and and to be outgoing.

 


[00:30:32.180] - Paul Porter

I can tell you it makes for a dangerous work environment for me because when your boss can knock you over, it's scary. I got to watch what I say.

 


[00:30:44.500] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. So let's talk about what your business is all about and how people can get involved.

 


[00:30:57.270] - Paul Porter

Sure. So our business essentially It has two parts, I would say. So we run adventure trips. And then the other thing we do is offer training courses. So one on one, real basic courses That's an all day course where we basically... If somebody is brand new. When we first started doing the one on ones, too, I thought that we would be talking to people that had never been off roading at all. But what I've discovered over the past few years is what we see is people people that tell me, Yeah, I've been out once, twice, three times. And basically, I went out enough that I don't know. And I'm worried about, I bought this $60,000 vehicle, and I don't want to destroy it. So they've gone to the off-road parks. They just run around on what we call the haul roads, basically the dirt roads, and they're afraid to do a lot of the harder stuff. So we help them build them some confidence, help them to know what gear to get, how to use all the new fun features that are on these vehicles. And then a lot of those people have become people that come on our trips.

 


[00:32:06.290] - Paul Porter

So we run adventure trips, I would say all over the US. We definitely focus a lot here in Michigan. Michigan has 3,000 miles of trails. They're definitely easy, so they're great for beginners. But we do Kentucky and Tennessee, and we were just in Missouri. So we're all over the place as far as running trips. I I feel like we vary our trips and we're expanding the trips we offer because I'm the type person I get bored pretty quick. If there's not some variety and change, I'm going to have a hard time staying interested. Yeah. So that's the two parts of what our business and what we offer. Within those trips, then we do winter trips, we do summer trips. We try to offer a little bit for anybody. So if you're into camping, we do camping trips. If you want more of a plush trip, we do trips that involve nice hotels and going out to eat and things like that, because we've heard mixed things out of different people. I definitely think that the nice Airbnbs and hotels trips are Probably gaining more traction. At first people look at the price point, but once you start taking the time to figure out, Oh, well, if I went and did this on my own and I was going to spend $400 on hotels anyway, a $600 ticket is really not that bad to have all that plus trail guiding.

 


[00:33:36.830] - Paul Porter

We try to make the most of people's time. So we're taking you out. We're showing you the good trails, the good spots. You're not wasting your weekend trying to figure all that out. We've spent the time doing that.

 


[00:33:48.460] - Big Rich Klein

The people that are coming on your trips, are they a little more advanced or are they still in that one on one stage?

 


[00:33:58.890] - Keri Porter

We offer trips all different skill levels. So we have our most popular basic trip is our shore to shore, which runs the two tracks in the forest roads of Michigan. We start on the East Coast at sunrise and take two days to work our way to the West Coast to sunset. And then we have what we call big rig events, and those require 37-inch tires, lockers, winch, highly suggested that you trailer to the events. And then we also offer some women's events throughout the year, where we have trail guides that will lead a beginner group or intermediate or advanced group. So we really try to cater to all different people. You just do easy trips and you pigeon and hold yourself into not growing with your customers. You do stuff that's too advanced or only do camping trips, then you're only catering to one part of your audience. But if we offer a variety of things, then we can cater to a broader our audience.

 


[00:35:00.720] - Big Rich Klein

There you go.

 


[00:35:01.570] - Paul Porter

I feel like the big rig trips are selfish. We do those, and that's a very inexpensive ticket, but pretty much you're just getting trail guiding from us on those trips. And a lot of those are a lot of our friends and things we've met over the years. Probably pretty much average person there is really running a 40-inch tire. We go run some harder trails. So it gives us an excuse to still get out with our friends.

 


[00:35:27.120] - Keri Porter

The only reason why we haven't up the tire to 40-inch tires is because our best friend John, his wife, Miranda, runs an LJ on 37-inch tires, so we don't want to exclude her from being able to participate in that trip. But, yeah, everybody else runs 40-inch tires or buggy-type vehicles along those trips.

 


[00:35:50.560] - Paul Porter

Okay.

 


[00:35:51.780] - Big Rich Klein

I always like going on those trips with my Cherokee and surprising people.

 


[00:35:56.450] - Keri Porter

Yeah, right. She's a lot of fun. She does great with her LJ.

 


[00:36:00.980] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I surprise people with 35s. But I started wheeling when it was 1982. So there's just a lot of experience there where I figure out a way to get through with 35s.

 


[00:36:18.990] - Paul Porter

Driver mod means a lot, right?

 


[00:36:21.650] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that's true. So then what do you guys look at is the What's your future for your business? Are you going to expand and go more places, longer trips, shorter trips? Where do you think it's going to go?

 


[00:36:39.740] - Keri Porter

This next coming year, we're talking about extending our shore to shore from two days to three days. We just did a survey with our clients from this past year and had nearly 100 responses. People wanted longer trips, and they wanted more variety of trips. So we're talking about extending We're heading a couple of our staple trips another few days. We do a trip in the UP that's very popular. We're talking about making that a week long trip as opposed to four nights. So Yeah, a little bit of expansion as far as trip length and just offering maybe a couple of new trips this year.

 


[00:37:23.270] - Paul Porter

Yeah, we're noticing that we have the big rig trips, and then we have our beginner trips, and there's not a ton that's like the in between. And a lot of our clients who are becoming friends are, they're like, I want to do more than just the- Two track. The two track stuff. I want to do a little bit harder. So we're trying to fill that gap of that in between. And so I'd like to start doing maybe a UA style of trip, maybe not quite as extreme stuff that somebody on a 35, like you're saying, could do that maybe even with open dips, but still we're going to push it a little harder every day and then travel from place to place. The other thing we like doing is mixing in more than just off-roading. So for example, we were doing a trip in Kentucky and we spent the one day kayaking and one day hiking, and then we also off roaded two days. So I like to add some of that type of thing. So we do our UP trip, we do some off roading, but then we'll also go the one day we spend time going to a lighthouse and some other overlooks and things like that.

 


[00:38:37.840] - Paul Porter

So, yeah, we like to involve more than just off roading. To me, too, that helps. Say you have a wife that's big into off-roading and her husband that's coming along in the passenger seat doesn't necessarily get into that as much. So we try to keep everybody interested. Right.

 


[00:38:56.840] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, it makes sense. And I think people People want experiences. That's the thing that's changed. What I saw and realized was that living my life the way I have and constantly moving and doing different things, I'd go to SEMA and come across some friends that have businesses, and they were like, Oh, hey, we really enjoyed your trip to Japan. I'm like, Oh, wow, you're paying attention? And realizing that they didn't have the chance to get out and do those experiences for whatever reason. And there's a lot of people like that. So they like to watch, but they also want to get involved. So giving them the opportunity to do that is precious.

 


[00:39:53.570] - Paul Porter

Definitely agree. It's amazing to me the number of people we meet that We're like you. We are always traveling, always on the go. We always have been. We don't sit around and watch TV much. And the number of people that we meet that say, they're come to us and say, yeah, my kids are out of the house. We want to start traveling. We've been waiting all this time. We've never done anything like this. Never been out of the state. It's hard for us to fathom that because we're always on the move. And it's rewarding to see people out and have a really good time. Again, they walk away saying, Wow, that was an amazing time. That's just a really rewarding thing for us.

 


[00:40:41.280] - Big Rich Klein

How many weekends or trips did you guys do this last season?

 


[00:40:47.720] - Keri Porter

We were gone over 20 weekends this past year. I think with shows, we were at 26 weekends, which was a little much, not going to lie. Because we were going to come home and come home and literally unpack and break or fix the things that were broken that had to be fixed. We've had a windshield that we've needed to be replaced for a year and a half now. We haven't even had a chance to do that. So Yeah. So we were gone, I think, 26 weekends this past year.

 


[00:41:20.960] - Big Rich Klein

Did that make it hard to keep up with the house, like mowing the lawns or whatever?

 


[00:41:29.330] - Keri Porter

It did a A little bit, but our son lived at home. He moved back home when we started traveling, and so he takes care of the maintenance on the house when we're gone.

 


[00:41:39.040] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect.

 


[00:41:40.430] - Paul Porter

Perfect. Yeah. Okay.

 


[00:41:41.380] - Keri Porter

Yeah.

 


[00:41:42.900] - Big Rich Klein

And what shows were you guys doing We did.

 


[00:41:48.150] - Keri Porter

So last year we did. There's a show in Dayton that we do in February. They just changed the name of it. I don't know. Yeah, it's in Dayton, Ohio. It's a good show. It's early in the season, but everybody's getting their tax returns. Everybody in the Midwest has cabin fever. So everybody wants to get out and start doing some shopping, getting ready for their off-road season. So it's a good show.

 


[00:42:12.360] - Paul Porter

Yeah. So the shows we do, We sell a bullet point of Mounting Solutions. So that's our friend Ryan is one of the owners of that company. And a few years ago, we started going to these shows as Discover 4x4, but then it was It's hard to pay for booth rental and all that and not have any return on it. Then we initially asked my buddy Ryan, I said, Can I sell your phone amounts off to the side in the booth so we can make some income off of the shows? He liked that idea. So then we started doing that. But the first show we did, that's all anybody was stopping there to talk to us about. So then we quickly realized maybe we should just sell these full amounts. So it's worked out good for us because it helps us supplement our income. We don't really make a lot of money off our trips. And so being able to sell those amounts at the shows gets us around our friends and seeing people and catching up with people, but also allows us to make a lot of money while we're there and pay the bills.

 


[00:43:14.780] - Paul Porter

Right.

 


[00:43:16.630] - Big Rich Klein

And so your only product is the bulletproof amounts then?

 


[00:43:20.400] - Paul Porter

Yeah, that's all we sell is those phone amounts at the shows. We only do a few of those a year. So Daten Off-Road Expo, Jeep Beach, Smoky Mountain. I think maybe we did five or six last year, but we're going to pull back on that a little bit this year. We like Jeep Beach. Again, it's the end of the winter for us, so it's nice to get out, and we use it as a vacation also. Chance to get out on the beach for a few days. And then Smoky is, that's probably, to me, the biggest show of the year as a vendor. So we really enjoy that show. It's just a good, very successful show. People are there to spend money. That's why people go to that show. Okay.

 


[00:44:03.550] - Big Rich Klein

How far West have you guys wheeled?

 


[00:44:08.600] - Paul Porter

Sure. So that's going to be different for both of us because Kerry's done the rebel, right?

 


[00:44:12.290] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, yeah, that's true.

 


[00:44:14.480] - Paul Porter

Well But so, yeah, I've only... Fargest I've ever gotten is going to be... We've done Colorado and Moab, and then Kerry has been out further than that. She could tell you about that.

 


[00:44:25.440] - Keri Porter

Yeah. So I mean, with the Rebell, I've done Nevada and California, Kalama Sand dunes.

 


[00:44:33.150] - Big Rich Klein

And what did you think of the Ravel?

 


[00:44:35.030] - Keri Porter

I can't exactly tell you where I was at in California, Nevada.

 


[00:44:38.050] - Big Rich Klein

Because you had maps with nothing on them.

 


[00:44:41.010] - Keri Porter

Right. Which I don't know. I would say it's interesting. The only time I've ever wheeled California, Nevada is during the Rebell. I've never gone out just to vacation or just... So I'm looking at waypoints and I'm looking at directions, and I'm looking at degrees and distance, but I couldn't tell you where was or what's around it because...

 


[00:45:04.960] - Paul Porter

So I do have, actually, I should say that I have wheels in California. So I'm going to tell on myself because we went to KOH last year. Oh, yeah, we did. And we rented a Mojave JT, and I just I couldn't take it anymore. We were out there visiting, and I told her, I said we were out there a week ahead of time. And I said, we've got to get on the trails. And so we took our rental Jeep out on the trails. I'm a rule breaker. Kerry is a real follower. So she was nervous the entire time. I kept telling her it's fine. The noise is just a control arm or a skid plate or a frame hitting those rocks. It's fine. So, yeah, I've actually done a little bit in California. But, yeah.

 


[00:45:50.060] - Big Rich Klein

What did you... Okay, I've got to ask, what did you think of KOH?

 


[00:45:54.790] - Paul Porter

Yeah, it was a really cool experience. I definitely don't want to go again without having in my own vehicle there. Again, it's just hard for somebody that when this is our life and our love, it's like I'm staring at these big rock piles thinking, I wish I had my stinking Jeep here. Right. Yeah, it's a really neat experience. I know a lot of people have gone there for years and years. It's really far for us.

 


[00:46:22.150] - Keri Porter

Yeah, it's a three days drive for us. So just the cost of getting out there with our own vehicle would very excessive. The problem with driving our own vehicle out there is we host a winter event in February. So we have to make sure we make it back in time to host that event. So that's why we haven't driven out there yet, but it's a great event. I love KOH. We went and we helped a friend. He was racing it for the first time that year. So we helped him in his pits and managed the hospitality side of his team and his staff, which was a lot of fun. And I'm thankful that we had something to do because we're not people who just sit around. So I think if we went out there and just sat around, we probably wouldn't have enjoyed ourselves nearly as much if we didn't have something to do.

 


[00:47:21.400] - Paul Porter

Yeah, right. We're like we like to be from the inside out on events. So being that we were in the pits, help and keep things organized, that kept us interested. I'm sure for a lot of people, spectating is just fine, but just because of who we are, we want to be involved. So we were grateful. We were just going to go to spectate, and then it was probably five weeks before the event, we got a call saying, Hey. It's actually Ben, JK Gear and Gadges has a YouTube channel. So he did his first KOH last year. So his wife is friends with Kerry, and she called and said, Can you help with the hospitality side? So just as simple as, those guys need to worry about the race car and the team. So we're handling the food and the background stuff, helping them make sure they know where they're going in the right direction.

 


[00:48:12.560] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. So a question, when you guys are doing your trips, do you provide that same hospitality to the people that are attending your trips? Or are you guiding in there? They're bringing their own meals and cooking themselves?

 


[00:48:34.630] - Keri Porter

That really depends upon the trip. When we do our camping trips, we let people provide their own food. Our idea behind the camping trip is that we want us to make it affordable for young families or people who don't have a lot of income but still want to be able to get out. So what you spend on food is determined by you. It's not determined by us. You're just paying for trail guiding and we cover your campsite, and then everything else is on you. Our women's events, we provide dinner for everybody every night at the women's events. We also provide light breakfast in the cabins. And then people are responsible for their trail food when they're out on the trail. So it's really just based upon each event.

 


[00:49:28.310] - Paul Porter

Okay. Yeah. Kind of going in the starting to plan our trips years ago, I had a vision of getting to camp and having meals all set up. But it's just a matter of, and then we started asking around, what would you pay for this style of trip? And at least In our area, it seemed like people would rather save the money and not have those accommodations in some cases. Again, it was just to try to keep costs down. Then obviously, there's a little more logistics there, too, if I'm having to try to find somebody, which we've done on some of our trips. But generally, I would say that 75 % of our trips, we do not offer food. We take care of your accommodations, whether it be camping or hotels, and then we trail guide. Okay.

 


[00:50:16.800] - Big Rich Klein

Makes sense.

 


[00:50:17.840] - Keri Porter

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like when we first started our business, the idea of paying for someone to provide a trail guiding service for you was, I don't want to say laughable, but there are definitely people in our area who thought it was ridiculous that people would pay for our services. But now that we're almost going into our fourth year, we see that the There's a need. Yeah, there's definitely a need, but there's a more positive response than there was when we first started the business. There's always going to be those people who learn from their Uncle Bob and don't need anybody to show them anything. But then you have the people who really want to do this safely and they want to do it right and are willing to pay for someone to show them how to do that.

 


[00:51:14.080] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Exactly. I'm one of those Uncle Bob people, but I like going on people's trips so that I can go with a group to areas that I've never been before. Yeah. So that's That's appealing. But if I'm doing the Rubicon, it's like, I don't want... I just prefer to wheel by myself most of the time. Yeah.

 


[00:51:39.480] - Keri Porter

That's one place we haven't hit yet, is the Rubicon.

 


[00:51:42.630] - Paul Porter

And I get that because honestly, that's the type of person I am, too. So we run a winter event, and it was probably 15 years ago, we went to a winter event here in our area, and it wasn't even an expensive ticket. It was only like $60 a person. This is a lot of years ago. But I thought, why would I do this? We should just do our own. And that's just the person that I am. So I get it. But we've learned that there are a number of people that, again, they've owned that Jeep for four years, and they haven't done anything with it because they don't know where to go or what to do. So they value having someone plan all of that for them. And again, really, our vacation time is limited. If you have a nine to five job, you get two, three weeks a year. So If you're going to go run a four day weekend, wouldn't you want to go to the good places and see the good trails and the good spots rather than waste your time trying to figure that out?

 


[00:52:40.370] - Big Rich Klein

There's a run here on the Rubicon, Jeepers Jambury. They've been doing it since 52 or something like that. I really enjoy that one because they feed you really well. You got hundreds of people in there that are like minded. They've got rock rollers along to help those that need help to get in on the trail. A lot of them, if you know the rock rollers, they just wave you past. Like, Come on, just keep going. They're not trying to guide you if you don't need it. But it's really... They got mechanics down there. They've got medical staff. They'll get parts for you if you're broken. They'll fix your Jeep at a cost if necessary. But you get a nice meal twice a day. It's just a great organization, and there's entertainment, that stuff. It's a different way to see the Rubicon, but it's an enjoyable way to see the Rubicon.

 


[00:53:57.220] - Paul Porter

Yeah, it sounds like they're bringing a lot of value to the people that are there.

 


[00:54:01.380] - Big Rich Klein

They do. They do. The one steak dinner that they do is just phenomenal. It's almost worth the price of the ticket anyway. Right?

 


[00:54:12.320] - Paul Porter

Yeah. If you've gone out to eat in the past couple of years or the past year, especially, you understand that costs are getting pretty crazy. Absolutely. I think this past event, the last event we did, our cost for food doubled from the one that was one year ago. Yeah.

 


[00:54:28.380] - Big Rich Klein

Hopefully, some of that changes.

 


[00:54:29.980] - Paul Porter

Yeah, we're crossing our fingers, right?

 


[00:54:33.030] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So, Kari, let's talk about your time on the Rebell. And you've done it once, correct?

 


[00:54:40.440] - Keri Porter

No, I've done it three times.

 


[00:54:41.650] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, three times? Okay.

 


[00:54:43.270] - Keri Porter

Yeah. My first year was with Laura One Loss, who every year since then, I'm hoping for her to take first place. So, yeah, she's become a great driver in the Rebell. Second year, I did it with I was a lady from Japan. Then that third year, I was Ellie Currie's Navigator.

 


[00:55:07.400] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. The lady from Japan. Was that the one that was the How can I put this? I'll put it as a masseuse?

 


[00:55:19.450] - Keri Porter

Yes. We were Team Sexy Jeeps.

 


[00:55:21.920] - Big Rich Klein

Yes. That's right. Team Sexy Jeeps. Yes. That must have been quite the experience.

 


[00:55:29.570] - Keri Porter

That was quite the experience. Even leading up to the Rebell, it was an experience. I got asked a month prior, and I agreed to do it because she hadn't had a navigator. And then we were doing it, we weren't doing it. We were doing it, we weren't doing it. I had actually had booked my flight to meet her on a Tuesday morning, and I had taken the Monday off of work, and I was going to pack. But that Sunday night, before that Monday, she had messaged me, and she said, It's not going to happen. I can't get the money together. So I went to work on Monday, and then driving bus, I can't use my phone. So I get done with work that morning, and I get a text from her. She says, I'm on a plane to Arizona. I'll see you there. So I went home and spent that Monday packing, and then I flew out Tuesday morning, and we met in Arizona. She had had a Jeep in the States that she was keeping at a shop. It was a two-door JK. She had bought it to go to Easter Jeep Safari, and she went to Easter Jeep Safari and then hadn't touched the Jeep since.

 


[00:56:49.610] - Keri Porter

It still had all of her clothes and snacks and whatever from Easter Jeep Safari when she pulled up to pick me up. So we left Arizona and headed to Reno and stopped at Walmart. In the car wash, we washed her Jeep, cleaned out her stuff, bought all the gear that we could at Walmart. For tech, and then headed over to tech inspection.

 


[00:57:22.010] - Big Rich Klein

Wow.

 


[00:57:24.230] - Paul Porter

And me as a mechanical background, I'm, of course, two weeks ahead of time asking, has this vehicle even been looked over by anybody? Like, it's been sitting, is the battery even charged? And Terry immediately gets on the phone with her saying, Hey, you need to have that stop, look a vehicle over. Unfortunately, they at least gave it- To check the fluid, They check the fluids and they charge the battery.

 


[00:57:45.560] - Keri Porter

Exactly.

 


[00:57:46.000] - Paul Porter

The real thing's six. But you're putting this thing in a competition.

 


[00:57:50.830] - Keri Porter

Yeah. It was an interesting year for sure. My goal, because of the language barrier, was to not come in last. We did not come in last, so that was great. I met my goal for the year, but just communicating was really hard. I felt like she spoke some English, very limited English But doing enduros, the time, speed, distance, it was go slow, go fast, stop, turn right. It was very basic. So, yeah, So I remember that year on Wednesday, we were having problems with the enduro, and it was one that was decided that morning that was going to be thrown out. So we did. We probably started that Enduro, I don't know, a dozen times to work on our communication. And at that time, we realized that her odometer reading wasn't even right. So we couldn't be precise anything, which made a lot of sense over the first two days of why we were struggling. Her Oda wasn't even right.

 


[00:59:12.390] - Big Rich Klein

But you were able to We finish.

 


[00:59:16.320] - Keri Porter

Oh, yeah, we finish. Yeah. We made it in every night on our own. We were usually the last team in every night, which made it very lonely for dinner. Everybody was always done eating by the time we rolled in. Yeah, but it was definitely a learning experience. You learn a lot about yourself when you're stuck in a vehicle with somebody you don't know for that long and have communication barrier. Yeah, it was a good experience. It was a hard experience, but it was good.

 


[00:59:51.180] - Big Rich Klein

Well, I can tell you those late nights, the meals, and eating alone, I understand that because Shelle and I do that most of the time when we're down there because running sweep. And you're not always the last one on course. You may be the last competitor on course, but we got eyes on you.

 


[01:00:11.640] - Keri Porter

That's true. We actually joked about you guys following us in every night. We started calling you our paparazzi.

 


[01:00:18.970] - Big Rich Klein

We were the paparazzi. There you go.

 


[01:00:22.160] - Keri Porter

Yeah. The course guys were our paparazzi following us in every night. So I'm excited. I'm actually headed back to the Rebell this year. The last three times I've participated as a navigator, and this year I plan on heading back as a driver, so I'm really excited about that.

 


[01:00:42.490] - Big Rich Klein

And do you have a navigator picked out?

 


[01:00:45.450] - Keri Porter

I do, yes. I have a friend who's going to do it with me. It'll be her rookie year, but I'm looking forward to doing it with somebody I know and being able to have the full year to prepare for it, which we didn't really have in the past. So it's going to be a good year, I think.

 


[01:01:03.490] - Big Rich Klein

Good. Excellent.

 


[01:01:04.970] - Keri Porter

Yeah.

 


[01:01:05.840] - Big Rich Klein

And so what is... You guys have just finished your season up and you're coming into the offseason, so you're prepping for next year already?

 


[01:01:15.310] - Keri Porter

We are, yeah. We're working out on our calendar, actually today. And when we hang up with you, we got to finish hammering out our calendar so we can get that out for next year. And then our events will start popping up on our website and our tickets for people to hopefully purchase those.

 


[01:01:34.420] - Paul Porter

You full well know how tiring event planning can be. So we always come. We get home from... We always finish strong. So we were gone for almost six weeks to finish. And we got home. And we just sit back and just watch Netflix for three, four days and do nothing and just try to reset our brains and bodies before we get into it. But that was all last week, Monday through Friday. So now this week we're, all right, time to get busy and get back to work.

 


[01:02:06.230] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. So tell us how people can get in touch with you and how they can find out more information about your trips and events.

 


[01:02:18.470] - Keri Porter

Okay. So we have a website, discover4by4adventures. Com. We have social media, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. You can find us anywhere. Our events, we use the Facebook event tab for all of our events, which link back to our website. So you can either find them on Facebook if that's easier for you, or you can find them on our website.

 


[01:02:41.800] - Paul Porter

Yeah. We also have a YouTube channel, which is just our Discover 4x4 adventures, where we do post as much as we can a lot of our adventures. So we just did a Tennessee trip that's on there. The one we did in Kentucky is on there. So if you want to get an idea of some of the trips that we do and the fun people that are there, that might give you a sample of that.

 


[01:03:04.150] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. Well, I want to say thank you very much for spending the time and discussing your life and how you got involved in Off-Road and how you made the decision to go all in.

 


[01:03:20.600] - Paul Porter

Yeah, thank you.

 


[01:03:21.390] - Keri Porter

Yeah, thanks for having us. We appreciate it.

 


[01:03:23.960] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, and good luck in the future. And, Kari, we will see you on the rebel, that's for sure. Yeah, that's awesome. And Paul, you're going to make it to the gala?

 


[01:03:34.020] - Paul Porter

I do think I'm going to definitely make that happen. That's on our schedule for sure.

 


[01:03:38.380] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. You know, this is going to be year 10. Wow. The anniversary year. Yeah.

 


[01:03:44.360] - Keri Porter

Yeah, I'm excited. I think there's going to be... I don't think Emily is going to... I think she's going to pull out all the stops is what I'm trying to say.

 


[01:03:53.400] - Big Rich Klein

Yes, expect that.

 


[01:03:55.540] - Keri Porter

Yeah, I think it's going to be a good one.

 


[01:03:58.420] - Big Rich Klein

All right. Well, you guys take care And thank you so much. And we'll talk some more. Thank you.

 


[01:04:04.070] - Paul Porter

That was good.

 


[01:04:05.070] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Bye-bye.

 


[01:04:06.560] - Keri Porter

Bye.

 


[01:04:08.560] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.