The American Bad-A** Repeats, JT Taylor is back on Episode 255

We last checked in with JT Taylor three years ago, so much has changed. If you saw the announcement of a new race at Area BFE on Big Saturday, you want to listen in for the deets. JT spills it all!. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

6:45 – 284 acres outside of Tulsa that goes up against the river and US Army Corp of Engineers land with 26 miles of trails 

12:12– they got hit by a trophy truck in a silt bed north of Loreto; broke the right rear of the car, but we changed it all out and still beat the competition by two hours             

18:29 – We built the Nissan as a practice car for the Coronet, I have to learn to drive fast in two-wheel drive on asphalt again.

28:32 – We go out to Rednecks to help Derek and the guys run the races, we got Rugged Radio to donate a bunch of headsets, it was a game changer

30:56– ***ALL THE DEETS HERE*** Rock race at Area BFE on Big Saturday during EJS 

55:19 –Entries open on March 1

Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[00:00:05.280] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.470] - 

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[00:01:13.020] - 

Have you seen 4Low magazine yet? 4Low magazine is a high-quality, well-written, four-wheel drive-focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4Low is the magazine for you. 4LOW cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4Lowmagazine.com to order your subscription today.

[00:01:39.830] - Big Rich Klein

All right, on this episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I am doing my first repeat from episode 92, way back in January 25th, 2022, three years ago, I talked with JT Taylor, the American Badass, and we have JT back on in the air this time because JT has got some cool things coming up, and life has changed over the last three years. So JT, thank you for coming back on, and let's talk about the future.

[00:02:12.880] - JT Taylor

No, thanks for having me, man. I had a really good time doing it last time, and I've enjoyed listening to it several times, driving down the road, going from race to race.

[00:02:21.320] - Big Rich Klein

Awesome. And people seem to enjoy the podcast as well, because you're actually, after 253 episodes, you are the number five rated listened to. And all of those that are higher than yours in listens are all people that I talk to before I talked to you. So your show is done really well.

[00:02:49.290] - JT Taylor

Oh, that's cool. I'm glad people enjoy it.

[00:02:52.250] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So let's jump in and talk about the last three years. So the last time we talked, you were just getting ready to start at Mid-America. We've got some things coming up in the future, but let's talk about from then to now.

[00:03:13.550] - JT Taylor

We ran Ultra 4 there for a couple of years with Mid-Americaa. Then Robinette decided that he was getting out of the race business. So Ultra 4 went back to Hammer King. I looked in a different direction, and we started Heartland Racing Association there in Oklahoma. We raced at Mid-America for two races. Then the pending sale got it to where we couldn't race there anymore. We paused our series and working on a piece of property outside of Tulsa that got a huge building on it and enough room to put a nice short course on. Working on that and keeping our fingers crossed that we can get something going because the location is really good. It's like eight minutes from the Hard Rock Casino Hotel and 15 minutes from the international airport. It's a really good location outside of Tulsa.

[00:04:18.220] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, it sounds like it. 15 from the hotel, or from the airport, and eight minutes from Hard Rock. That's pretty good.

[00:04:26.190] - JT Taylor

Yeah, that's where, as you well know from running races, the closer you can stay at a city center, you're going to get those casual spectators instead of the hardcore enthusiast.

[00:04:35.680] - Big Rich Klein

Correct. And that's one of the things that always kills us with the rock crawling. None of our locations are in the heart of anywhere.

[00:04:46.500] - JT Taylor

No.

[00:04:47.110] - Big Rich Klein

Except the wilderness, basically. We got our next event coming up, first one of this season, it's Bagdad, Arizona. Now, most people, most time when I mention Bagdad, they go, Where? But it's a little mining town. There's only two mining towns in Arizona, and Bagdad is one of them. And there's only 800 people that live there, and every building is owned by the mine.

[00:05:13.580] - JT Taylor

Oh, wow.

[00:05:15.000] - Big Rich Klein

And I mean, the grocery store, the bank, I mean, every building, every piece of property there is owned by, and people lease. But it's good for us to go in there, because they want us there to help give something back to the community.

[00:05:34.120] - JT Taylor

Yeah. No, that's the only reason I even know of Bagdad is because of you going there and having events. Right.

[00:05:41.360] - Big Rich Klein

So is Mid-America still operating as a park?

[00:05:48.220] - JT Taylor

Do you know? From what I've been told, there's a buyer that's buying in, and Jason is still going to be part of it, but on a lesser scale. And the new buyer wants to have events, not races. He wants to do car shows and concerts and stuff like that and lean away from the racing. Still doing riding in the park, but But yeah, I think that can work out for us because if we don't have a competing racetrack 45 minutes down the road, that's definitely going to help with starting a new track.

[00:06:29.970] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. You got investors in that, in this new piece of property, or is it just you?

[00:06:36.240] - JT Taylor

No, it's investors. Okay, good. Because it's a big chunk of change.

[00:06:40.340] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I would imagine. How many acres is it? I forgot what you told me it was.

[00:06:45.860] - JT Taylor

284, I think.

[00:06:46.490] - Big Rich Klein

284, wow.

[00:06:49.230] - JT Taylor

But also it goes up against the river, and there's US Army Corps of Engineer land that we can tie into It's about 26 miles of trails along that river on Army Corps.

[00:07:03.160] - Big Rich Klein

Wow.

[00:07:04.310] - JT Taylor

Yup.

[00:07:05.940] - Big Rich Klein

That's nice.

[00:07:08.400] - JT Taylor

Yeah, that'll be a good... The lower area of it's wet, so it'll be mud bogging stuff. But then you can also go around that and go ride the trails where it's not all muddy and nasty.

[00:07:20.140] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So once the deal with Robinette and Mid-America stopped, you still did the Heartland racing, correct?

[00:07:31.530] - JT Taylor

Yeah, because all of those racers were now stuck with nobody to run the races. So myself and business partner just decided to do it, and we lost money doing it, but it was- Welcome to Off-road racing. Oh, yeah. But it was good to give the racers a place to race because they were stuck. So hopefully, we'll get this thing stood up and get it going in '26 and have some good races again.

[00:08:03.640] - Big Rich Klein

So you're still doing airplanes, airboats, and some off-road racing, though, right?

[00:08:10.770] - JT Taylor

Yeah. I'm still working on that dream of running an endurance airboat race one of these days.

[00:08:17.140] - Big Rich Klein

And any headway on that?

[00:08:20.710] - JT Taylor

Yeah. I've got some people that are interested in helping with it in Oklahoma if we do it on the Arkansas. And then also same with running the red in between Oklahoma and Texas.

[00:08:31.350] - Big Rich Klein

Very good. I know the Red River.

[00:08:35.780] - JT Taylor

Yeah. So I think I can get 125 miles on the red.

[00:08:40.560] - Big Rich Klein

What do you think you can get on the Arkansas?

[00:08:43.740] - JT Taylor

I don't think I can get anywhere near that. I think only like 20, 30 miles.

[00:08:49.290] - Big Rich Klein

Laps would be terrible.

[00:08:51.980] - JT Taylor

Laps would be not good. No. My insurance would be like, No.

[00:08:56.540] - Big Rich Klein

It sounds like the red is the best The best option.

[00:09:02.230] - JT Taylor

Yeah. Then I was talking to a fellow who just came and picked up my old props from my airboat on marketplace. I sold them, and he runs an airboat club up on the St. John's. He's like, shoot. He's like, we could get you a 50-mile run up there. So there's an opportunity once we get it done once and learn from it that we could move around and do it in different places.

[00:09:25.540] - Big Rich Klein

I guess you could do a stage, the first 50 miles, and then make sure the course is clear, give everybody at whatever time limit they need, and then do the second half back down.

[00:09:40.310] - JT Taylor

Yeah. I've thought about that, and that's definitely doable, especially if you're using transponders, so you've got 100% accountability of all your racers.

[00:09:49.340] - Big Rich Klein

Right, where they're at.

[00:09:51.350] - JT Taylor

Yup.

[00:09:52.680] - Big Rich Klein

But- So is that... Those rivers are navigable only... I mean, can regular boats run In places, but normally no.

[00:10:04.810] - JT Taylor

It's shallow, and sandy, and rocky. Okay.

[00:10:08.490] - Big Rich Klein

So any recovery crews out there and stuff are going to have to be small draft boats?

[00:10:14.900] - JT Taylor

Yeah, or vehicles. They just drive out there on the sand. I'd take the out there and pull boats out.

[00:10:23.800] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. So then what else have you been doing over the last three years? You've been doing some desert racing?

[00:10:34.510] - JT Taylor

Yeah, raced with Pat Sims some, and then raced with Terry Madden and Lucy Block and Leah Block in a Can-Am last year at the Baja 1000, and won our class. That was pretty cool to have somebody down there and take them pre-run, and they'd never raced in Mexico and then actually win it. I mean, Lucy and Leah are both awesome drivers. They were killing it. Then Terry, of course, is the co- driver. He took care of them. We started eighth in class and finished first by two and a half hours over second.

[00:11:20.920] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, that's really good.

[00:11:22.890] - JT Taylor

Yeah, it was pretty awesome.

[00:11:25.300] - Big Rich Klein

That was more of the... I hate to use the word stock, but more of a factory chassis and everything. It's not like the- Oh, no. The chassis that they were using at the Hammers for the 4,400 class, right?

[00:11:40.680] - JT Taylor

No, it had a factory chassis, and aftermarket cage, aftermarket seats and harnesses, of course, all the safety stuff. It was factory A arms, factory axles. It was as close to off the showroom as you can get with adding the safety stuff.

[00:11:59.600] - Big Rich Klein

And What size tires did those run?

[00:12:03.030] - JT Taylor

We ran a 35 on that one. A 35, okay.

[00:12:06.640] - Big Rich Klein

Because that's what that front arm on those things is designed for, correct?

[00:12:12.620] - JT Taylor

Yes. You can get a 37, but you got to play with your offset. And I know that they've done it on machines, but we ran 35 to keep the weight down. It worked. The thing lived. The only work we had to do on it, they got hit by a trophy truck in a silt bed north of Loretto. Yeah, Luckily, they were okay, and it broke the right rear of the car, but we had a whole another car on the trailer behind the chase truck in pieces. We just changed out the whole right rear assembly, axial, arms, walked a whole nine yards.

[00:12:47.050] - Big Rich Klein

And still beat the competition by two hours?

[00:12:49.910] - JT Taylor

Yep. Pretty good. Yeah, it was a good effort. I had a good team. I enjoyed that one. That was fun.

[00:12:59.910] - Big Rich Klein

Was that the only team that you worked with this year, or this last year?

[00:13:07.430] - JT Taylor

It was Pat Sims, and then Terry and Lucy. Yeah, I think that was it. But then we've been back and forth in Colorado, working on the Pikes Peak Hill Climb car. The thing's come along pretty good. Brandon's been killing it on that thing.

[00:13:26.520] - Big Rich Klein

Let's talk about that. What is it?

[00:13:29.550] - JT Taylor

It's a '67 Coronet RT. Real nice Colorado car. It was sold the first time in Pueblo, so it's no rust. Real solid car to start with. Then We took it to Schwartz Performance, and they 3D scanned the entire car. Then we built a rectangle tube chassis for the whole car. Now it's a frame car instead of a unibody. We've got a 840-horse Hemi, one of the Red-Eye Hellcat motors, and a T56 six-speed Magnum manual to go behind it. Ford nine-inch, 32 spline, coilovers, big sway bars, gigantic bear brakes. I got 14s with 6S modified pistons in the front, and then 13s in the rear with four pistons.

[00:14:28.900] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. Who's going to be the driver of a record on that?

[00:14:35.000] - JT Taylor

That's me. Nice. I've raced the peak three times before, and now that it's all asphalt, I wanted to do it in something vintage. Brandon found this car on marketplace out of Denver, and we went and got it. Been working on it for a couple of years now, but now it's coming down to the homestretch. We got the motor trans in. I took the car They were out to Salt Lake to cagekits. Org, and they 3D scanned the inside of the car and then designed a Pikes Peak legal, well, pretty much every sanctioning body legal cage. They drew it up on CAD, sent it to me. I sent it to the tech at Pikes Peak. Randy approved it, and so I told them to go, and they knocked it out, and it's all CNC-bent, laser notched and etched, and they put it on a pallet and shipped it to me.

[00:15:35.530] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[00:15:37.000] - JT Taylor

Now it's going to be fun putting it together. And I've talked to Jake Povey, who did a lot of the welding on the TTB car back at TorchMate, and he's going to come down and weld it together for me.

[00:15:50.720] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Very nice. Yeah.

[00:15:52.540] - JT Taylor

His welds look like a dang machine, did it?

[00:15:56.460] - Big Rich Klein

And are you guys going to be ready for this Pikes peak, or are you shooting waiting for 26?

[00:16:01.410] - JT Taylor

No, plan is for this one. We're paddling hard. Right.

[00:16:08.750] - Big Rich Klein

And you got a couple... Don't you have a couple of other cars that you've been working on?

[00:16:15.450] - JT Taylor

Yeah, I bought a Class 5 Unlimited from Gene Mooneyham, and we've been working on it. I got a new fuel cell getting built for it. We want to race Nora with it.

[00:16:26.380] - Big Rich Klein

And then- And that was a what class?

[00:16:29.880] - JT Taylor

Class 5 Unlimited.

[00:16:30.920] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, Class 5 Unlimited. Okay. For those that don't know, that's a Volkswagen-powered... Is it got to be a beam car?

[00:16:40.460] - JT Taylor

It has to be a beam car, but in the Unlimited, everybody runs a Eco-tech It's got the Chevy Echotech, and then a Wendel H-pattern transaxle. All right. Or sorry, not Wendel. But yeah, it's got king coilovers and bypasses all the way around. It's a good little car. It's that one that Gene, He ran around without the Hammers for years. He let me drive it one day, and I told him, I said, If you ever going to get rid of this, you call me. Well, about four years later, he called me, and I went down and picked it up.

[00:17:11.310] - Big Rich Klein

It had the eco in it at that time? Yeah. Okay, cool.

[00:17:15.330] - JT Taylor

I didn't even pick it up. Darren and Darlene were down there, Henke, and they brought it back to Colorado for me. I just went up to their place and picked it up.

[00:17:24.180] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Yeah. That'll be Nora, the 1,000. Let's see, Which race do they do first in the beginning of the year? Is that the 500 or the 1,000?

[00:17:36.560] - JT Taylor

No, it's the 1,000.

[00:17:37.100] - Big Rich Klein

1,000, okay.

[00:17:38.700] - JT Taylor

In April.

[00:17:39.140] - Big Rich Klein

In April. Is it going to be ready for that? No. No, okay. So looking at 26 probably. Yep.

[00:17:48.030] - JT Taylor

Cool. We'll get a good program going and get down there in '26. Talk to Jeremy Dickinson, and he wants to go and talk to Terry, and I don't know if they're going to do something on their own with Lucy and them in a sidexside or if they're going to run with us. So I still got plans to make. Cool. Excellent.

[00:18:07.130] - Big Rich Klein

And any other cars?

[00:18:09.900] - JT Taylor

Yeah, I did that little Nissan 240 SX with a 416 Stroker LS in it.

[00:18:14.760] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:18:16.710] - JT Taylor

That thing is... It is fun. It is extremely fast.

[00:18:23.670] - Big Rich Klein

And that is built to do what besides just burn the tires off?

[00:18:29.880] - JT Taylor

We built it as a practice car for the coronet. Okay. To learn how to drive fast on two-wheel drive on the asphalt again, because I haven't raced asphalt since I was in Europe. Because when I was stationed over there, I raced the Hock and Die Nuremberg Creek and small in Belgium. But that's a long time ago. Down here in Florida, and Skip Barber is not far down the road from where I'm at in Florida, over in Sebring. I think I'm going to bring that Nissan down here and actually go through the Skip Barber school in that car. If they'll allow it. I hadn't even talked to them about it yet, but I have to see if they use just their cars or if they let you bring your car. But I figured it can't hurt because I remember when Brad Lovell went to one of the driving schools, I think it was Skip Barber, but that's back when we were racing Pro-Lite, I was crew chiefed for him, and it It improved him. He came back and he had different braking techniques, trail-breaking it, different apex in on the corner. So it definitely improved his skill, which he was already a good driver, but it made him better.

[00:19:42.950] - JT Taylor

So I figured it can't hurt teaching old dogs and new tricks.

[00:19:47.990] - Big Rich Klein

Right. No, that's great. And you've got... You still have your place in Colorado Springs?

[00:19:56.610] - JT Taylor

Yep. Yeah, I got the place there in Fountain.

[00:19:58.730] - Big Rich Klein

And then you're Well, if I said Fountain, unless you were from Colorado, most people wouldn't know where Fountain is.

[00:20:08.040] - JT Taylor

No. Just a suburb of Colorado Springs. Yeah.

[00:20:11.190] - Big Rich Klein

And then you got the place in Florida.

[00:20:15.930] - JT Taylor

Yep. Yeah, I'm down here in Myaka, in the middle of nowhere.

[00:20:18.870] - Big Rich Klein

Right. I've been there. That was pretty cool, actually. Yeah, it's cool.

[00:20:23.800] - JT Taylor

It's funny. Michelle's out here feeding the cows pellets every night. We're chasing her around I'm like a bunch of giant dogs.

[00:20:34.320] - Big Rich Klein

Then you have a place in Oklahoma as well?

[00:20:38.020] - JT Taylor

Yeah. We bought a Lakehouse there on Grand Lake. It's right by the Disney Riding area, so I got the best of both worlds. I can be on the rocks in about two minutes, and I can just walk down to my dock and get in my boat if I want to be on the lake.

[00:20:50.310] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Then you don't have to go to the park there that everybody else has to go to, or most people have to go to. I forget the name of the park now, where they do big dogs, or they did.

[00:21:06.380] - JT Taylor

Yeah. No, and the BMR is coming up in March, the big meat run. I'm actually co-chair on a nonprofit that runs the events at BMR and helps promote it. It's called Discover Disney Island. They asked me to co-chair it, to try to give something back. It's been pretty cool. We put on a knockout race. This year, we're going to do it on Friday afternoon of BMR on the Grand Staircase.

[00:21:38.160] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[00:21:38.660] - JT Taylor

Just a little short course deal up and down the Grand Staircase. It's been pretty fun the last couple of years Then on Saturday, we're doing a bounty. There's a new bounty to the left of Nasty Girl that has never been topped. We're going to do a true bounty. If nobody makes it out, nobody gets paid. There you go. We're not going to do the highest mark gets paid. It'll just roll over to the next time that we do hit that bounty in an official capacity. So whoever makes it out gets to name it, gets the money.

[00:22:15.090] - Big Rich Klein

Very good. Cool.

[00:22:17.800] - JT Taylor

Yeah, I'm taking some lessons from old Clyde Bynum, doing some bounty stuff.

[00:22:24.470] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. That's awesome. I think that there's enough room across It's lost the spectrum of off-road for multiple promoters to do what needs to be done as long as everybody's not trying to stomp on each other.

[00:22:40.160] - JT Taylor

Agreed. Yeah, and that's always been something I know you stressed, is not putting dates on top of other organizations, and I've always tried to do that as well.

[00:22:50.300] - Big Rich Klein

Right. I always tried to respect everybody's historical dates, and hoped that people would respect our historical dates. But that always hasn't worked out.

[00:23:00.120] - JT Taylor

No, no. Sometimes they don't pay attention.

[00:23:03.980] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, they're paying attention.

[00:23:07.860] - JT Taylor

Yeah, I know. It just sucks because everybody loses when you do that.

[00:23:13.610] - Big Rich Klein

Correct. It gives the drivers can't go back to back as much as promoters would like them to. No.

[00:23:21.730] - JT Taylor

Hell, even like a three-week lead time in between races is still super tight. That's what we always try to give them as a minimum of three weeks. Right. Yeah. But running multiple stuff, they're busy.

[00:23:36.240] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, absolutely. And for them to pull in the sponsorship that they need to, to make a program work, most times they need to run multiples.

[00:23:50.710] - JT Taylor

Yeah, agreed. You get on multiple platforms and getting different eyeballs on you. And that's where we've always struggled in this industry, is trying to get outside eyeballs, outside marketing partners, just outside of our core industry.

[00:24:05.920] - Big Rich Klein

It's difficult. Right. It's difficult.

[00:24:08.430] - JT Taylor

So that's why I'm hoping that the place outside of Tulsa, if we can get that short course going there, then we're going to start hitting a new audience, getting some newer eyeballs with some casual spectators since we're that close to town.

[00:24:23.030] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Then you got to talk to Taylor Sheridan and get him to do some of his Tulsa King shows out there or something.

[00:24:32.870] - JT Taylor

Oh, yeah. I tell you what, that dude is a writer. I've been watching some of his shows, and I am impressed of his writing abilities.

[00:24:42.220] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. The broad range Everybody gets on there. I do it when I watch his shows, and I'm like, Yeah, that's not true to life. They bunch... Like you take a landman. Everything A true oil landman doesn't do everything that that character is doing. But you couldn't have 10 people trying to do that. No. So it makes sense to condense. And the same with, I'm sure, some of the military experts that have been in those situations that they try to do in television are cringing when they see the shows, that thing. God knows what the Mafia thinks.

[00:25:40.490] - JT Taylor

Yeah, no doubt. They're just laughing.

[00:25:43.020] - Big Rich Klein

They probably are.

[00:25:46.290] - JT Taylor

Yeah, there's sometimes when you watch a military show after doing it, 21 years in the army, and you see some of the stuff like, who is their consultant? Good grief.

[00:25:56.430] - Big Rich Klein

If they have one, exactly.

[00:25:58.510] - JT Taylor

Yeah. But Some of them nail it. Like The Hurt Locker, that movie was one of the best... I mean, the uniforms were correct, the bumper numbers on the vehicles were correct. They nailed it. Then with the subject matter, it was a really good movie.

[00:26:16.320] - Big Rich Klein

I'll have to check that one out. I never saw it.

[00:26:19.590] - JT Taylor

Yeah, it's a good watch.

[00:26:22.410] - Big Rich Klein

One of the things that cracks me up is shows like FBI or some of those more cop-like shows, is that every time they go, Oh, my God, that's a nine-millimetre round. The guy must be using a Glock. In fact, my mom is caught onto that whenever they say nine millimeter. Must be a Glock. That's funny. Glock are common, but it's not the most. I mean, it's not the only nine millimeter out there.

[00:26:57.920] - JT Taylor

Yeah. No, I know. That's funny. That's true.

[00:27:03.370] - Big Rich Klein

Then what else you've been doing the last three years?

[00:27:10.640] - JT Taylor

Well, we finished the Megadodge, that 64 four-door swep line that we built on Nine ton militaries, four-wheel steer, 56-inch AG tires. That thing turned out amazing. Out of the box, everything worked perfect. The brakes, the steering, the cooling, the four-wheel steer, self-centering, It just I've never had a project that was that perfect out of the box. Nice. We've taken it to the rednecks of the Paychecks. We've taken it out to Moab and wheeled around the area BFE, wheeled around out on Hells Revenge with it, wheeled all over Disney with it. Then did the staircase and the waterfall and nose dive and all that stuff. That thing just works. It's a lot of fun.

[00:27:58.960] - Big Rich Klein

Rednecks, That's an interesting event.

[00:28:03.030] - JT Taylor

It is interesting.

[00:28:04.040] - Big Rich Klein

We went out there and looked at maybe putting on a dirt riot race. During that, we went out to look at what they were doing with their little short rock race. At that point, I was like, the exposure for us to put on a race out there?

[00:28:27.250] - JT Taylor

Yeah, during that event as possible. Yeah.

[00:28:30.220] - Big Rich Klein

That was early on.

[00:28:32.300] - JT Taylor

Yeah, I looked at the same thing and I'm like, Not during the event. We can do a race here not during an event, but not... But yeah, it's fun. I go there and I help Derek and his guys run the races, and we actually got Rugged Radio donated a bunch of handhelds and chargers and headphones or headsets because these guys are trying to run these mega truck races with the little ear buds in. I'm I'm like, No, man, you guys need headsets. We got rugged, donated that stuff to their organization, and it was a game changer. Josh was like, Oh, my gosh, I can hear now. That's been pretty cool, and it's been a good relationship going down there and hanging out with them, hanging out with Chip. We used to hang out with Zandy and Ang down there. Ang came back out. We were with Rockhold Chipp came out, and Ang came out. That was cool to hang out with them again there.

[00:29:36.520] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[00:29:37.790] - JT Taylor

But it's just good people watching and playing in the mud. That Megadodge, she does pretty good. I have gotten stuck, but it does pretty damn good.

[00:29:49.160] - Big Rich Klein

The first time we drove up parking in the parking lot, and there was a guy from the night before for laying in the grass. I won't call him naked, and I won't call him half naked. But he was somewhere close to between the two on the spectrum. He was probably closer to the naked side. I think he might have had skivvies on his all, and laying in the mud in the parking lot. And this was like nine o'clock in the morning, and I'm like, Wow, this is going to be good.

[00:30:31.450] - JT Taylor

Yeah, it's always interesting.

[00:30:36.750] - Big Rich Klein

So then we got some new stuff coming up. You called me a couple of months ago and asked me a question, and I said, yeah, I'd be interested. Then you just called me last week and told me this thing was going to happen for sure.

[00:30:56.770] - JT Taylor

Yep. Yeah, we're doing a short course Rock Race at area BFE. I won't say where XRRA Race started because they had started over in Colorado. But definitely where it grew when we had that first race there in '05, when we got snow the night before the race, that was the first race for Old Blue. I'd driven it out of the shop, onto the trailer, and then off the trailer to the start line. That's how far I'd driven it. Yeah, that was our very first rock race in the XRRA. Then, of course, we ran with Mike and Jody for years. I don't know, I was just talking to Robert Lucero out at area BFE. He was wanting to do something on Big Saturday. We came to the idea of doing a short course rock race. Then, as you were saying that I called you and talked to you about it. At one, picking your brain about format and stuff like that since you've been, of course, doing this for longer than all of us. But then to ask you to be the grand marshal Robert was super excited about the idea and then called you back and said, Yeah, let's go.

[00:32:22.810] - JT Taylor

I think it's going to be really cool. We're going to do three classes. There'll be a side-by-side class, and then a big car class, 37-inch tire and down, no side-by-sides in that one, and then an unlimited class, which is a 38-inch and up tire with no side-by-sides. Okay.

[00:32:43.580] - Big Rich Klein

Side-by-sides, no matter what All everything's grouped together.

[00:32:48.480] - JT Taylor

Yeah, all side-by-sides in one class. So I don't care if it's turbo, non-turbo. I don't care what size of tire you run. I don't care if you run tireballs. Just come racing. And It's going to be short. It's all going to be up in the playground, up top. So you're racing side by side in your own cordon off lane, but you're not really racing the person next to you. You're racing the clock because the courses will diverge. And then we'll run that, switch lanes, then move through the bracket and switch the direction. So run it backwards and then switch lanes.

[00:33:30.440] - Big Rich Klein

So it's going to be bracket racing. It's not going to be combined time?

[00:33:35.070] - JT Taylor

Oh, no, it'll still be combined time. When I meant moving through the bracket, I meant just moving down the race order. Okay. And we're not going to do qualifying. We're just going to do a random draw and no pre-running. You can walk it, can't drive it. Perfect. Yeah, that way it just keeps it level for people that can't get there ahead of time to be able to pre-run. But we'll We'll do some registration and tech stuff down at Robert's Shop in Moab on the north end town there on Friday, and then we'll get after it on Saturday.

[00:34:12.950] - Big Rich Klein

Where's his place on the north end Before the first Maverick.

[00:34:18.670] - JT Taylor

You know where the... It used to be a really good Mexican restaurant next to the Rock Shop? Yeah. Directly across from that Rock Shop. Okay.

[00:34:25.790] - Big Rich Klein

All right.

[00:34:28.330] - JT Taylor

He's got it built up and all branded up area BFE, you can't miss it. Cool. But he's been killing it out there with his tour business. He's one of the companies now that has rock buggies that Randy has built that people can rent and go on tours.

[00:34:47.830] - Big Rich Klein

Very nice.

[00:34:49.080] - JT Taylor

Yeah. No, he's been really working hard on that and then working hard on area BFE, trying to improve stuff out there. He's got a lot of irons in the fire.

[00:34:59.830] - Big Rich Klein

Well, And he increased the size of the park, didn't he? Didn't he get that piece of property that was Lower Hellderado that was closed for so long?

[00:35:08.150] - JT Taylor

Yes, he did. He got that bought, and so it opened Lower back up, and we were actually able to race in it. And it was pretty wild.

[00:35:18.330] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that was one of my favorite trails way back in the day when I was going there for the first time back in the '90s. I I really enjoyed that. I had a CJ7 with 35s, and it was just one locker. It was amazing that I really liked that trail for that rig. Oh, yeah.

[00:35:48.150] - JT Taylor

I bet that was a challenge.

[00:35:50.210] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, there was that one rock, shark's tooth or whatever we called it, and it dented the top of the hood about a third of the way across on that Cj7, and I was like, Okay, that was interesting. Thought I was going to miss it. Nope.

[00:36:11.190] - JT Taylor

No, we ran it. The first time I went in there, It was with Kevin from Grand Junction, and then Kevin from Moab. Kevin with the little teal quarter lip Jeep.

[00:36:22.180] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. Kevin Hawkins and Kevin Carroll?

[00:36:25.120] - JT Taylor

No, not Kevin Carroll. Kevin from Firehouse Racing. He set up a shop over in Grand Junction. But yeah, he had his yellow, bob-tailed Toyota, and I had my black, bob-tailed Toyota. Kevin had his green Jeep, and we ran into Kevin at the diner. He goes, Hey, you guys want to go on a new trail? Absolutely. He took us down there and we ran it, and it was early. I don't know how many times it had been run, but there was not many tracks through there. It was fresh. But it was really cool. Of course, that black Toyota works really, really well just with the wheelbase and how stretchy it was for a leaf spring rig. But yeah, that's the same truck that I drove down in '98 to Bob Hazel's deal in Los Cruces and completed it, finished what? 14th out of 40. Nice. Drove it there and drove it home.

[00:37:30.270] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that was the Los Cruces event that was the one that Jeff Wagoner won, wasn't it?

[00:37:39.340] - JT Taylor

Yeah, it sure was. Yeah. Yeah, but it was cool because Mike Palmer was there, and the Currys were there in the fire ant, and Good Lord Shannon was there. Randy Ellis was there. Chip Monk was there in his Buggy. And so it was... Oh, shoot, I'm losing his name.

[00:38:05.670] - Big Rich Klein

Pat Grimillion was there?

[00:38:07.720] - JT Taylor

Yeah, Pat was there.

[00:38:10.070] - Big Rich Klein

Harold Off?

[00:38:11.720] - JT Taylor

Yeah, you're right.

[00:38:13.020] - Big Rich Klein

Harold Off was there. That was the That was the who's who of rock crawling back then.

[00:38:19.190] - JT Taylor

Yeah, it was. We may or may not have gotten 86 out of the only bar that's close there.

[00:38:30.720] - Big Rich Klein

That never happened.

[00:38:32.940] - JT Taylor

Well, you get Randy Ellis in the same room and things go sideways.

[00:38:40.350] - Big Rich Klein

Still?

[00:38:41.860] - JT Taylor

Yeah, still to this day. But yeah, that was a good time, way back when.

[00:38:52.050] - Big Rich Klein

What do you foresee... I know that three years ago, what you foresaw may not have been where you're at now, but it's always cool to look to the future, and then once you get to that future, look back and say, Okay, well, I missed the mark on that, or, Man, I hit that one. I had a home run on that. What do you think is coming up?

[00:39:21.440] - JT Taylor

I'm really excited about this race at BFE just to get back to where we started doing short course rock racing stuff before before it went into the big endurance stuff, desert style. Just having some fun with it and putting on a good event for drivers to come out and have some fun and they can really send it because they're right next to the trailer. It's not like they're going to have to be stuck out in the wilderness for half a day. But yeah, then just looking forward to that Pikes Peak deal and learning the car and getting to run up America's again. Like I said, been privileged to be able to race it three times. Really looking forward to racing that again. Then getting the HRA back up and going. That's really excited. Now, there's a lot of drivers and teams out there that are waiting to see what we're going to do. We're hoping we can get it done in '26 and not disappoint them and give them a good place to go racing.

[00:40:25.740] - Big Rich Klein

The HRA is the Heartland?

[00:40:28.190] - JT Taylor

Yeah, Heartland Racing Association. But we also... I talked to Scott Raine the other day, and he's working at Arrowhead Speedway in Oklahoma. It's an amazing track. It's a clay circle track, and it's black clay. I went there for a race, and they watered it and rolled it at the beginning of the night and then never touched it, and it never dusted, and it didn't blue.

[00:40:52.680] - Big Rich Klein

That's crazy.

[00:40:53.840] - JT Taylor

It was amazing. They've got a bunch more of that material, and they want us to come there and do a stadium-style side-by-side race. We've done that before back with Torque, racing at a circle track in Ohio and at Oshkosh. You use part of the straight aways and the turns, and then you turn and go into the infield and have jumps and switchbacks and whip sections, and then get back upon the oval and have a big jump, start finish line jump. I think that's definitely We might even try to hit one of those at the end of this year. We've been talking to them about it and get in the fall when it cools off a little bit and just have an invitational.

[00:41:39.730] - Big Rich Klein

No gap jump?

[00:41:42.540] - JT Taylor

No. No gap jump. That didn't play out well.

[00:41:50.310] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, just one vehicle would have been enough. The thought of one vehicle crashing like that would have been enough. Enough to say, this is not a smart idea. I hate to throw anybody under the bus. I don't know whose idea it was or who built them or whatever. But I'm sure I'll get a phone call at some point, somebody going, thanks for throwing me under the bus. But I remember out at Ram where Chiddix had They'd put in a gap jump that they could jump, Ray and Chiddix, in their cars. And I'm like, that's great. But what happens if somebody doesn't clear it? Yeah. Oh, everybody could clear it. I said, no. What if somebody loses a cylinder in the last 100 feet before they get to that gap jump? To me, it was just too much exposure putting in a gap. But- Yeah, it was...

[00:43:03.790] - JT Taylor

When you came up to that one, you better be on your JLB. I know Matt Thompson was car driving for me. One time when it was the step up Gap, land, and then step up triple gap.

[00:43:18.440] - Big Rich Klein

Right. I didn't mind those, but I remember, what was it, Brian Gillespie?

[00:43:24.720] - JT Taylor

Yep.

[00:43:25.390] - Big Rich Klein

He cased it. Yeah, hit hard. Yeah. And he took a ride. If I remember right, an ambulance ride. And that was with the step-ups. There was one that they wanted to put in the back, that the main trail went underneath, and we used to run down underneath drop into it, run it, and then come back out. I'm like, There's no freaking way that I'm running anybody across that. They go, We'll get in the car, we'll pre-run it. I said, No. I have absolutely no desire to that, because unless the car is built for me, I ain't fitting in most cars.

[00:44:06.520] - JT Taylor

Yeah.

[00:44:07.820] - Big Rich Klein

Most of these drivers are skinny ass little guys.

[00:44:13.840] - JT Taylor

Yeah, I remember that one back there. Matter of fact, I tried to jump that with just front drive, and I lit the other side and it stood it on its nose. Mike Hope, you remember that name? Yeah. He got a picture of it from the Skylift, and it's over center on the front tires. You see the front tires are spinning out because I bent my throttle pedal. I stood on it so hard, and I drove out of it. But boy, that hurt.

[00:44:46.810] - Big Rich Klein

Well, yeah. Did you read what happened to Duane Garretson and his copilot when they cased it?

[00:44:53.420] - JT Taylor

Yeah. No, I called Dwayne the other day and talked to him, just checking on him and his guys. Yeah, that was That was hard.

[00:45:02.400] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. It's good that the Hornes didn't get hurt any worse than they did.

[00:45:09.350] - JT Taylor

Yeah. No, agreed.

[00:45:11.760] - Big Rich Klein

Everybody on all these Internet experts, well, that was stupid. They should have gone around or whatever. When in a racing situation like that, sometimes you just don't remember where the hell you're at.

[00:45:24.160] - JT Taylor

That's true.

[00:45:24.620] - Big Rich Klein

Especially when you're transitioning from a trail into the short course.

[00:45:29.280] - JT Taylor

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. You get that red mist going, trying to chase somebody down and forget where you are. Yeah.

[00:45:38.770] - Big Rich Klein

Like I said, I'm probably going to get a call from somebody, but I don't care.

[00:45:46.130] - JT Taylor

I bet you're rich.

[00:45:47.760] - Big Rich Klein

I'm retired enough now where it just doesn't matter.

[00:45:54.000] - JT Taylor

Yeah.

[00:45:55.280] - Big Rich Klein

I don't have to be kind so much.

[00:45:58.270] - JT Taylor

Yeah. I have seen you've been doing a lot more work with Ormhoff. That's really cool.

[00:46:02.950] - Big Rich Klein

Yes. Ormhoff is the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame is real important to me. The building up of the rock crawling side or rock sports side is going well. Getting everybody... Got to get more nominations in for rock crawlers or Rocksports. March is Nomination Month. Anybody that's listening to this, you can go to ORMHOF.Org and see the information available that you need to do an application to get somebody inducted. And we take those from March first through the 31st. The information is up, but the applications will be open on March first. And then we're looking to expand, or I'm looking to expand the rock sports side of our business in Ormhoff, the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame. And I know that you've come to a couple of the to the galas. There's something to behold. I mean, this last year, we had 800 attendees.

[00:47:24.100] - JT Taylor

I know. When you told me you sold out, I was stoked. That's so cool.

[00:47:26.620] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that's just incredible.

[00:47:30.650] - JT Taylor

Got some big names already in Rocksport in there. Yeah.

[00:47:36.080] - Big Rich Klein

Shannon.

[00:47:37.280] - JT Taylor

Lance, Shannon Campbell.

[00:47:40.700] - Big Rich Klein

Dean Bullick.

[00:47:42.610] - JT Taylor

Oh, the Iceman. I just talked to him the other day.

[00:47:44.920] - Big Rich Klein

So nice. And then we got Marlin Czakowski for Marlin Crawler.

[00:47:50.730] - JT Taylor

And Brad Lovell. I'm trying to think who else.

[00:47:58.710] - Big Rich Klein

Then it gets more into land use, more of the side. So you got Del Albright and Bob Ham. You got the land use side of the hall or the industry is represented fairly well. I think that there's always room for more. But again, it's the education of the people all across the spectrum of off-road. Yeah. We just got Ken Block in from Rally. Then same thing with Millen. Then we have John Nelson from Oh, yeah. The designer of Tiny? Yeah. Which was the most innovative rock Crawler in history.

[00:48:57.230] - JT Taylor

That changed everything.

[00:48:58.950] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, it sure It did in a hurry.

[00:49:02.720] - JT Taylor

Yeah. That car with Bundrant behind the wheel, man, and even the other drivers after John, that car was pretty amazing.

[00:49:14.960] - Big Rich Klein

Yes.

[00:49:17.620] - JT Taylor

And now watching stuff out at BFE, I helped them do their Black Flag deal this past year, and we're going to do that again this year. I think the Thursday or Friday before the race on Saturday, we're going to do a Black Flag Challenge deal. I mean, there's things like watching McKinley and, oh, God, all those guys just It's amazing what they can do with those cars.

[00:49:48.290] - Big Rich Klein

They're surgeons.

[00:49:50.500] - JT Taylor

Yeah, exactly. That's a great way to put it. Yeah, it's just amazing to watch.

[00:49:58.060] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, those Trailbreaker type events are pretty cool because especially with what my son is setting up at Trail Hero, his idea is, We're going to put it on something that nobody's driven and may never drive and see who can do it.

[00:50:20.090] - JT Taylor

I went out there that one time to Trail Hero and helped Rich run the little sand course that he had that up and jump in the road. That was cool. It was a neat event. I was impressed. Your kid definitely knows how to put on an event.

[00:50:38.960] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that's true.

[00:50:42.400] - JT Taylor

He has really good people The concerts he gets in there and the events, the timing, the scheduling, I was impressed. It was a good event.

[00:50:55.010] - Big Rich Klein

The amount of trail riders he gets is incredible. I mean, it's now the It's the event to attend.

[00:51:02.970] - JT Taylor

Yeah, it really is. And you're an overshadowing EJS. Yeah.

[00:51:09.570] - Big Rich Klein

Well, EJS is limited. I still like Moab for the sightseeing type of trails, because all the trails there are just incredible for the sites and the terrain and the epicness of it, if that's even a word. It is now. Yeah, it is now. Sand Hollow, while it is a gorgeous area, it doesn't have that same vastness that, of course, Moab does. Right.

[00:51:50.050] - JT Taylor

But it got better wheeling.

[00:51:51.250] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Oh, yeah. I mean, when it comes to technical wheeling, plus it's open. They can drive anywhere they want on that BLM piece of land in that limited acreage that they have there. Where with Moab, you're stuck to the trails. There's no open area except for area BFE. And even at that, they want you to stick to the trails. You just can't go, Oh, here, I'm going to go cut this on my own.

[00:52:19.160] - JT Taylor

Right. Yeah, I know. That's where I got lucky working with Robert out there. Got Good Being Bird came out there. We got the excavator and the bulldozer on the side of that damn cliff and made another road so we could race up and down. I walked that cliff for four days, trying to find the spot, and finally found it. I remember when I talked to you afterwards, you were like, You did what?

[00:52:48.200] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly. Because we'd run the top, and then we'd send everybody. Everybody'd get a full lap and then part of a lap at the top. And then we'd run down the road, and then the road was closed. And then we'd do four laps across the trails, and then the road would open, and people could come back up. So it never would have two-way traffic on it. But then we had to do that in heat. So like the 4,400s or the unlimited cars, we'd do two heats. And it just It worked. We made it work, but it was pretty difficult. Because if somebody broke on the trails, trying to get them out of the way, it was never like, oh, We're going to get you back up to the pits. Sorry, you're waiting until afterwards. We're going to get you out of the way, and that's it.

[00:53:55.190] - JT Taylor

We call it the Abyss. Have you run that one since we put it in? No. No. I'll have to take you down there and show you. It turned out pretty good, and it's only a little sketchy.

[00:54:08.180] - Big Rich Klein

Well, I'll be out there, but I'll be out there in my raptor. I don't think I'll have the new V8 Jeep done yet, and I have to be there for Easter Jeep in the vendor show on the Thursday and Friday representing ormhoff. I won't be able to make it out there any sooner Well, I can come. I should be there by Tuesday or Wednesday, so maybe I can sneak out there.

[00:54:36.760] - JT Taylor

Okay. Yeah, we'll be out there. Yeah, we'll be out there soon.

[00:54:40.680] - Big Rich Klein

But I'll be looking forward to Saturday for sure, and be in Grand Marshal. I'm not sure what my duties are going to be, except to just look pretty, which is hard for me to do, but I don't mind trying.

[00:54:53.100] - JT Taylor

No, it's all you got to do and talk at the driver's meeting and just be big Rich because everybody loves to see you and talk to you and hang out. And I think it's really cool that you've agreed to be the grand marshal for our race.

[00:55:08.820] - Big Rich Klein

It needs to be awesome. I'm really thrilled to have been asked, and I appreciate that. And It's absolutely an honor for sure.

[00:55:19.800] - JT Taylor

Yeah. No, I think it's going to be really cool. We're going to open the entry on March first, and we're going to see how it goes. We may have to limit it per class.

[00:55:38.550] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Well, everybody that's listening to this, if you're going to race out there, if you're thinking about it, as soon as March first comes around, you better get your entry in.

[00:55:48.590] - JT Taylor

Yeah, because if it blows up, we're going to have to clip it to be able to fit all this in one day.

[00:55:56.020] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, for sure, especially with three classes and everybody getting two runs if they're runnable.

[00:56:03.420] - JT Taylor

Yep, exactly.

[00:56:04.130] - Big Rich Klein

As you know there's always going to be guys that break out.

[00:56:07.180] - JT Taylor

Oh, yeah. Yep.

[00:56:09.120] - Big Rich Klein

Nature of the Beast.

[00:56:11.750] - JT Taylor

Do you remember the rail slide they used to have there? Oh, yes. We were racing out there that one time, and Craig Stumpf was in his car, and he didn't hit that rail fast enough. He slid to a stop right out in the middle and looked like a turtle stuck on a log. I was like, Oh, man.

[00:56:30.290] - Big Rich Klein

Too funny. That's not still out there, is it?

[00:56:34.050] - JT Taylor

No, no, they're gone. Oh, good. Because if they were there, I'd use them. But yeah, looking I'm looking forward to that, and looking forward to hanging out with you and Shelley.

[00:56:48.480] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. We're looking forward to it as well. So, JT, I want to say thank you so much for updating us over your last three years of life, and I'm looking forward to the race coming up here at area BFE. Everybody has said XRrA style short course, head-to-head, two cars, So everybody gets to get a course at a time, one in each lane, and then it'll get flip flopped. And so everybody will get to run the A and the B course. So everybody come back out and enjoy it.

[00:57:29.530] - JT Taylor

Yeah, I think it's going to be a good time. Like I said, Michelle and I will be out there at the beginning of the week, so holler at me when you're and we all are getting out there.

[00:57:36.950] - Big Rich Klein

Great. Sounds good. All right, JT, thank you so much. Cool.

[00:57:41.350] - JT Taylor

Thank you very much for letting me come back on, and I'm stoked to be the first of the repeats. So looking forward to hearing this one.

[00:57:50.640] - Big Rich Klein

All right. You take care, and we'll talk some more. Thanks, Rich. Okay. Bye-bye. Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you would think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.