Season 5 Finale with Tracy Jordan, the GOAT!

Today’s guest is probably the greatest competitive rockcrawler in the history of the sport. Get to know Tracy Jordan and how he became the GOAT! Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

4:22 – everything was around hunting and fishing, it was one-on-one time with our dad

13:46 – I bought an FJ40 and wanted to do a lift, power steering, a few things…then got an invite out to a trail, and it was off and running from there.             

20:13 – That’s where ‘Air Jordan’ came about is that obstacle and there was a controversy 

28:39 – You never stop learning. I loved watching Joel, Don, the Curry’s – just their different techniques and learning from them

34:15– Durham had the same style as Shannon and Mike Palmer, just total, no fear on all the climbs 

50:29–I only have two timelines, and it’s my rockcrawling timeline and my kid’s timeline, that’s my only references in time.

Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[00:00:05.310] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.560] - 

Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two, Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread victoriously.

[00:01:13.030] - 

Have you seen 4Low magazine yet? 4low magazine is a high-quality, well-written, four-wheel drive-focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4LOW is the magazine for you. 4Low cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4lowmagazine.com to order your subscription today.

[00:01:39.240] - Big Rich Klein

On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I finally nailed down the King, as his teammates called him on a T-shirt, The Return of the King. So Tracy Jordan, probably the greatest competitive rock Crawler in the history of rock Crawling. And kind of a handful as a competitor, competitor to promoter type thing. But we had our moments, but we're friends. So Tracy, it's really good to have you on the podcast, and I'm really looking forward to this one.

[00:02:20.570] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, I know. I appreciate it big. It's been a while, and it'll be cool to talk some old rock crawling stories. So looking forward to it.

[00:02:29.190] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. So Let's get started with the easiest question, at least for most people to answer. I'm always surprised at some of the answers, though. Where were you born and raised?

[00:02:40.460] - Tracy Jordan

I was born in Avondale, Arizona, which is West of Phoenix, about 20 miles. I was born in 1976, which seems so old now, which is pretty wild.

[00:02:56.010] - Big Rich Klein

That's the year I graduated high school.

[00:03:01.600] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it seems like a century ago, which is wild. It sure goes by quick.

[00:03:09.460] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, it does. Absolutely. So then Born and raised in Avondale? Did you stick around there?

[00:03:21.210] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, born and raised in Avondale. My dad grew up there, was born and raised there. My grandma and grandpa were there and had 13 kids. Wow. And they pretty much settled there in their mid-ears. And my parents stuck around and They're still there. They have properties elsewhere in Alaska and Colorado, but this has always been home. So, yeah, I went through my whole childhood there in Avondale. It was more of just suburbs of Phoenix.

[00:04:06.030] - Big Rich Klein

It was pretty rural, though, wasn't it?

[00:04:09.420] - Tracy Jordan

It was, yeah. It was still a lot of farming out there.

[00:04:13.770] - Big Rich Klein

And open land, so you guys For entertainment as kids, you found... What things did you do?

[00:04:22.580] - Tracy Jordan

Everything was around hunting and fishing. So, yeah, we had a Gila River down south of us, and we would be down catching bait and then head off to the Verde River and do a lot of flathead catfish, and that was our childhood. Okay.

[00:04:40.850] - Big Rich Klein

And your dad was an avid hunter because I know you and your brother both are still.

[00:04:47.830] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, we got it honestly from my pops. And he hunted, and it was something that I fell in love with, just probably being out there with him and more of a one-on-one deal with him because he worked out of town our whole childhood. So when we would get together, it was always on a camping, hunting, or a fishing trip. So I just love that part of it. And I think that's why I love hunting more than any of it is just the old memories that I have and just keeping that alive. Right.

[00:05:19.740] - Big Rich Klein

So your dad for work, did you guys build roads or something?

[00:05:30.430] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, we did asphalt maintenance, a lot of slurry seal, asphalt paving. That's what I grew up doing. That's what I grew up remembering of my dad coming in, just beat with clothes, just covered in it. And I swore I was going to run off and be a snowboarder and get away from it. And my first year out of high school, he reeled me back in, talking how it was black gold, and this was the way we were going to make it. And so that is what we sunk our teeth into. I spent 16 years with him. My brother worked with him right up to the end. He just sold the business this year. Okay. Yeah, he put a lot of time in it.

[00:06:19.800] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I would imagine so. You said you wanted to be a snowboarder. How did that start off?

[00:06:30.090] - Tracy Jordan

I started skateboarding in seventh, eighth grade, and just fell in love with skateboarding. Then some friends, once we started getting driver's license, we started heading up to Snowball and Flagstaff, and fell in love with snowboarding. Actually, right out of high school, went to NAU for a year, and I probably got a degree in snowboarding. Definitely did not achieve what I wanted in schooling. And then I was actually going to had plans to move to a mammoth and go that route. But like I said, I got diverted.

[00:07:16.770] - Big Rich Klein

Dad diverted you. I understand.

[00:07:18.950] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah.

[00:07:19.260] - Big Rich Klein

I wanted to move up to... I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I wanted to move up to Placerville after my eighth grade year and go to go to El Dorado High School in Placerville because they had the number one high school ski team, at least on the West Coast. So there was some Olympians that came out of there and stuff, and I was like, that's what I want to do. And I could have done it if my parents would allowed it. I would have lived with my grandparents. But, yeah, that wasn't allowed. So I didn't get that route either.

[00:08:04.240] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, I got turned down on that game plan as well, and somehow got reeled into the asphalt world. What a dream, man.

[00:08:11.860] - Big Rich Klein

Especially in Arizona. Right? That can't be easy.

[00:08:18.570] - Tracy Jordan

It'll make you tough, that's for sure. Right? Yeah, there's no doubt about that. It'll make you tough.

[00:08:25.050] - Big Rich Klein

So did you play any other sports, like team sports or anything in high school?

[00:08:30.990] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, I did. I played baseball from five years old all the way through high school. I played football in high school. What position? I was a receiver for football, and then I played second base and outfield for baseball. Okay. Yeah.

[00:08:57.640] - Big Rich Klein

And your brother is younger?

[00:09:03.890] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, two years younger. Two years younger, okay.

[00:09:07.990] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. And you guys were pretty tight now. You guys were always that tight?

[00:09:13.750] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah. We were always tight. The whole family was always tight, still is.

[00:09:20.440] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that family atmosphere, rock crawling is that way, I mean, compared to a lot of motor sports. I think it's because everybody so tight together all day long or all weekend long. It's not like racing where everybody's out for hours and hours and hours.

[00:09:41.120] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah.

[00:09:42.140] - Big Rich Klein

So when you were in high school, were you working at that time with your dad, or just in summers?

[00:09:55.650] - Tracy Jordan

When we were old enough to hold a broom and a shovel, we spent every summer working for my dad. So probably from 10, 11 years old, we were out cleaning parking lots, my brother and I, for my dad. So, yeah, that kicked off at an early age. A lot of work ethic instilled in us from them. And my mom was right there. My mom was on the job site at that point in time all the way to the end as well. So it was a small crew, but completely family-based. And We worked every summer. That's how we bought our school clothes and whatnot. I can't say it was the fun of summers, but it definitely taught us a lot. Right All right.

[00:10:45.510] - Big Rich Klein

Hard work. If you want something, work hard for it.

[00:10:50.560] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, absolutely.

[00:10:52.470] - Big Rich Klein

Would you say you were a good student?

[00:10:57.280] - Tracy Jordan

I was an average student. I definitely My head wasn't towards school directly. I mean, it came along easy enough to where I just was an average student and then was able to do anything that I wanted It's all right.

[00:11:15.200] - Big Rich Klein

All right. When you went to to NAU, did you have an idea what you wanted to do besides snowboarding? Was there a theme to your schooling? Subject?

[00:11:31.240] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it was going to be wildlife biology was the direction I wanted to go. Then for whatever reason with Game and Fish, whether it was a warden or just part of that world, I just wanted the direction that childhood on that I always wanted to go.

[00:11:51.780] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that love of the outdoors, right?

[00:11:53.860] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah.

[00:11:55.070] - Big Rich Klein

I had the same thing when I was young. At 11, my grandfather asked me what I wanted to do, and I said I wanted to be Forest Ranger or fish and game or something like that. And then he goes, Okay, well, that sounds that's really honorable, but always think about what you love to do, and then figure out a way to make a living doing it. And then you explained to me a living wasn't how much money you made, but how you got to live your life.

[00:12:27.200] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, there's a lot of truth to that, for sure.

[00:12:28.510] - Big Rich Klein

And I I didn't find that until rock crawling surfaced.

[00:12:35.770] - Tracy Jordan

Right. But I mean, it's been a time span for sure, since the inception to now, which is pretty wild.

[00:12:43.440] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So let's talk about the transition. At what point did you get into wheeling?

[00:12:57.480] - Tracy Jordan

I got into wheeling. I had a '78 Chevy pickup, four-wheel drive, looked just like the fall guy truck. It was my fall guy truck. And we were always... Anything hunting related was off-road. And then we had a river bottom, the auger free, a river bottom that everybody met up on the weekends. And there was sand drags and hill climbs and everything going on out there. So that was my first dealings with putting a vehicle in four-wheel drive was It's just that whole environment. And that was in high school. Okay. Yeah.

[00:13:35.550] - Big Rich Klein

And how did the transition work from that to... Well, you ran an FJ40 early, didn't you?

[00:13:46.170] - Tracy Jordan

I did. I bought a... We were doing slurry seal in the town of Salome, and we come across an FJ40 that was for sale there in an RV park, and I ended up picking that up, specifically for hunting. It was just going to be a hunting rig. And this was really where the door opened for me into this world was, I researched and found Dave Gore, which Rob Bonnie worked for, and it was renegade off road, and they were in the valley. And I wanted to put a lift and power steering on it. So I meet up with these guys. We do a lift, power steering, a few things, and hit it off with Rob, and he had an old M37, and they were wheeling trails. And so I got an invite out to a trail and absolutely fell in love head over heels for it. And God, it was off and running from there. It was so quick from that moment. The rig We never made it to be in the hunting rig. Within six months, it was cut and had 38s and wheeling trails, wheeling all the hardest trails in Arizona.

[00:15:14.260] - Big Rich Klein

All the hardest trails at that point?

[00:15:17.140] - Tracy Jordan

At that point, yeah, definitely at that point. That would have been '99.

[00:15:20.240] - Big Rich Klein

'99, okay. Yeah. Right around the time that the rock crawling competition started.

[00:15:26.410] - Tracy Jordan

Exactly. Yeah. I met Don Robbins through through Rob and Dave Gore, and he had wheeled all the hammers and had his feet in with Phil Howell and some of the editors. So one of my first big wheeling trips was with Bob Hazel. He brought out a guy, forgot his name. He had a... What the heck was his... It was a famous rig. I know it was $100,000 Jeep. So they bring them all out to run Anaconda. This was Don's personal trail that he built, and Don invited me out. And I was so nervous because it was all these guys from the magazine. And he says, Trace, don't worry about it. You'll be fine. So we get up through the trail, and mind you, I drove mine. Mine was still a driver. I didn't have a trailer or anything at that time. So I drove it two hours out to the trailhead. These guys roll in with their trailers and really, really nice Jeeps. A lot of money in these Jeeps. Well, not 20% into the trail. There is so much carnage and breakage. And this guy, it was He told something the Cow. It had spots on it.

[00:16:48.440] - Tracy Jordan

Well, he gets so edged in the shoot of Anaconda that we have to winch it out. It just destroys this Jeep. And at the end of the day, I go and finish the trail, meet Don back around. Everybody meets back at the parking lot that night, and they're all licking their wounds there. And they ask, Well, where's your truck and trailer? I go, I don't have one. I got to drive two hours back to the house, and their jaws just dropped. I drove it there.

[00:17:22.290] - Big Rich Klein

And then ran an Anaconda.

[00:17:24.370] - Tracy Jordan

And then ran an Anaconda, helped them get all the way through. We have them headed back home. But, yeah, Yeah, that was one of my first dealings with real high-end cars and egos and the whole deal that comes along with it. Right.

[00:17:44.400] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah And so what was the first event that you competed in?

[00:17:50.430] - Tracy Jordan

First event was the very first ARCA event in 2000. So it would have been Farmington. Okay. Don had just done the Warn event with Bob Hazel out in Los Cruises, and probably six months prior, probably when I bought the Land Cruiser. And then in that short amount of time, we were off and running and did that ARCA event with Ranch.

[00:18:15.640] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Yeah. Okay. And then you ran a number of ARCA seasons, like all of them?

[00:18:23.630] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, we ran all of them until it swapped to U-Rock, I believe. And ran all those, yeah.

[00:18:30.150] - Big Rich Klein

My first memory of you was up in... It wasn't Vernal. It was the town just before Vernal, and it was You had the FJ 40, and it was Walker Evans, and it was out on the Indian reservation. I can't remember the name of that town now. Damn it. I remember that I was up there with Dave Burling, because I was the club president of Cedar City at the time, and the Cedar City event was coming up. So we had gone down and watched the rock crawl down in Johnson Valley, and then we went to the Phoenix event. We didn't go to Farmington, went to the Phoenix event. Then we went up to... Was that... No, I can't It wasn't Washington. Anyway, we went up to that event in Utah, up in Vernal area, and then we went. Then we had the Cedar City event that we helped Arca facilitate, getting judges and all that stuff. I remember there was controversy on one of Walker's runs, where the The judge allowed him to do something that nobody else did? I think it was.

[00:20:06.040] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, I can tell you exactly what happened.

[00:20:08.310] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. I don't remember everything, but I was standing there watching everybody's runs.

[00:20:13.380] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, yeah. Walker had rear steer. That was his debut of rear steer. And everyone was doing Shannon Campbell style trying to get up this. I did as well, and that's where I know the story was probably going with you is where I rolled off Landed back on all fours and went up again and rolled off. And that's where Air Jordan came about was that obstacle that you're talking about. Joel Randall, actually, They had that event, one, and there was the controversy. A walker went up and there was a flag on the top left side. Nobody was even coming close to it. Well, he just craws up it with his rear steer. But just out of the moment, he rear steers around at the top and then straddles the flag with the rear axial, but they didn't call it. The controversy was, obviously, the tire track was three foot to the left, and he straddled it.

[00:21:19.800] - Big Rich Klein

And there was no other tire tracks there.

[00:21:21.960] - Tracy Jordan

There was no other tire tracks. We saw it. Joel saw it. Joel had a lot of second places. Didn't have a first at that point in time. I don't know. I'm sure he did after that. He was such a great driver. But I know it broke his heart because he had so many consecutive second places, and that was his win. But yeah, Walker ended up getting the win. Judge didn't see it, and we all know how all that goes. And yeah, Walker actually won that event, I believe.

[00:21:54.630] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I think so.

[00:21:57.180] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah.

[00:21:58.160] - Big Rich Klein

I remember we didn't have a hotel room Dave Burling and I, and we were down in... We stayed in the town, and there was a little rest area with grass, and we thought, well, we'll just throw our sleep bags right out here on the grass. And then the sprinklers came on at one o'clock in the morning.

[00:22:13.750] - Tracy Jordan

I think it was based out of Vernal, because I remember it being a Vernal where we all stayed and then went out to that event site. Okay. Yeah.

[00:22:24.980] - Big Rich Klein

And then, what was it like I mean, there's nobody competing now that was competing at that time. I mean, you and Don came back out. You came the last two years at Bagdad, and this year Don came out as well. You guys had your kids running. But what was those early days like compared to nowadays?

[00:22:55.110] - Tracy Jordan

Well, the first year was the biggest party ever, right? So it was the inception of the sport, and everyone had different ideas. I'll never forget rolling into the best Western parking lot there in Farmington that first round. I could not believe how many people were there for rock crawling, of all things. And it was such an amazing atmosphere because there was all the people that you saw in the magazines there. You had Pat Grimillion, and you had Joel Randall and Curry's. You had all these really cool people that you looked up to there, and you're in the same event. But as far as obstacle-wise, I would say the feeling the obstacles were just, God, it's hard to describe it, but at that time, In just six months, I swore I was the greatest rock- Crawler, which is so... To hear that now because I don't... It's weird for me to believe that. But when I went to a Farmington event, it's a funny story. They put an interview camera up when you registered, and you sat down in this chair and they asked you, how do you think you're going to do? I just told them, oh, I'm going to win this event.

[00:24:24.370] - Tracy Jordan

And if I didn't place Dead Last big, I was within two or three of Dead Last. So it was a big case of humble pie, but I loved it so much. I'm like, I've got to figure this out because this is the coolest thing that I've ever been a part of.

[00:24:41.110] - Big Rich Klein

I remember helping Phil Collard out at Cedar City at Three Peaks there, setting up the first event. And the club was hanging out with him and just doing what needed to be done, clearing brush, whatever. And I can remember him just setting up like rows of I have cones everywhere. Well, I don't want people to go over here, so I just put a bunch of cones so that they'd hit them if they go over there. And I'm like, Man, that just seems like you got, you're putting out a lot of infrastructure that you got to put back up and everything. But I understood because it was that first year of rock crawling. Nobody had it figured out yet, let alone the drivers, let alone the promoter or course designers. I mean, and does anybody really have it figured out nowadays either? I mean, we've been doing it the same way for 25 years, basically, but it's still something new every year.

[00:25:43.840] - Tracy Jordan

It is. I think it was a little neater back then because there was so many different style vehicles and different styles of driving versus, say, you just look at an unlimited class today, and it's all the same car. It's all the same course. So that's a big difference I've seen from the early days, because if a course builder wanted to He can build courses against certain individuals, but you definitely couldn't build them against them all. Now, if you built it against one car now, it's pretty much going to be across the board a no-go, because they're all so similar now.

[00:26:35.990] - Big Rich Klein

I think the only difference nowadays, though, it does come down. It's like any class racing. Or where the cars are built so much alike that they don't... There's not a big difference in how they react. It's more about how the driver reacts. It's that feel that the driver has. And everybody looks at it and goes, oh, I'm just going to copy what he did. Well, you can be one inch off of what that line was, the guy in front of you did, and it can throw you completely out.

[00:27:17.960] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, definitely. I saw the courses that were set up for the shootout. I got a chance to finally walk over and take a look at what they were running for that unlimited class. And it was definitely big, big obstacles. It was It's definitely entertaining to watch for sure.

[00:27:33.070] - Big Rich Klein

Right. One of the things that I used to do, I used to like to do this for you and Kyleman, is I would put a... Because you guys always wanted to go big. Even if you didn't have to, if there was an obstacle out there that looked like nobody would get it, you guys wanted it. So it was like, okay, I'm going to put this obstacle in there because it might slow Tracy down. But, hell, most of the time you'd hit them, you'd get them anyway.

[00:28:07.830] - Tracy Jordan

So you'd look at those for a separate, right? So if everyone... The cars got so good, and the drivers got so good to where you had to find a way to separate yourself because a couple of backups isn't going to do it. So that was why you really had to go for the bigger obstacles.

[00:28:26.920] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Yeah. So who was Who are some of the guys that... Let's say you love to compete against first.

[00:28:39.500] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, the first few years, I loved competing against just pretty much everybody in those... I love competing against everyone throughout my whole span, but I love learning. So my first few years, we always learn. You never stop learning. But it was so fun watching Joel Randall and Curry's and Don Robbins just with their different techniques and just really learning from them. I love, love watching Pat Grimillion in the Bronco. Jason Holly came out, and I loved watching him and Travis work and really, really good friends with them and teamed up with them and had a heck of a fun quite a few years running as a team with those guys. But Steve Rumore with Avalanche Engineering, he was light years ahead of everybody with the sniper cars and then the assassin car that he brought out. And then Yeah, obviously, when Nelson came out and John Bonderant, they were probably the best team that was ever formed in our sport. And just watching how that operated and just that next challenge accepted when you see that. Right. Yeah. There's a lot of... So many good builders and good drivers during those first 10 years. Yeah.

[00:30:13.580] - Big Rich Klein

I remember when Nelson was building Tiny, he calls me up and he goes, Rich, you got to allow me... You got to allow people to put water in their tires. And And all I could think about was that if we weighted the tires, the cars were going to be so much more capable that the obstacles would have to get so much more difficult that we'd be borderline car killers. If somebody made a mistake, they were going to be out of the competition. And so I kept arguing with him about it, and he goes, Well, everybody else has already agreed to it. And I said, Yeah, but there's They don't think about... The other promoters weren't thinking about it on the same level as I was. I mean, I was the first one to put in institute almost all the safety rules. Just one at a time, but- I don't know what year that would have been, like that you're discussing it, roll side, but we were doing that.

[00:31:23.740] - Tracy Jordan

The first time I ran water in the tires was when we went down to Cabo with Dirty Dan Brown and Phil Collard set courses. And the first one I knew that put water in their tires, I heard about was Kevin Hawkins. And then Neil Lillard followed suit. He was the first one I knew that did it in competition. And I want to say that's before Nelson. The crazy thing is, when Nelson arrived, I had thought we had already done a lifetime in rock crawling. And in all reality, it was only three years.

[00:31:57.800] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly.

[00:31:59.130] - Tracy Jordan

So he was still fairly new to the sport. And at that time, I thought I had already spent a lifetime. So it was a really weird time span, how quick it went.

[00:32:09.840] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly. I think that was 2000. Let's see. The first Cal Rocks event that I did was November 2001. Then in 2002 was my first series, and we started off at the Gun Range down there in Lucerne Valley. And then we went to Donner, and I don't even remember all the other places.

[00:32:41.080] - Tracy Jordan

But if I remember right, you did Lake Amador.

[00:32:42.770] - Big Rich Klein

Lake Amador is the very first one.

[00:32:45.370] - Tracy Jordan

You're That was the very first one. That was one I missed. I didn't miss another one after that, of yours.

[00:32:49.410] - Big Rich Klein

That was that first put up or shut up, 42 cars. And I spent Friday night in court, fighting the county over a cease and desist because they didn't understand what rock crawling was. They thought we were crawling, and they had just had a big rave out at a lake where everything got really out of control. And they thought that, they heard rock and thought, oh, it's like a pub crawl. It's a rock crawl. And they tried to shut us down, and I fought them and beat them in court. I didn't get out of court until 8: 30 that night on Friday night during tech and I'm in court 30 miles away.

[00:33:33.400] - Tracy Jordan

Crazy. Am I right or wrong? Did Chris Durham win that event?

[00:33:38.180] - Big Rich Klein

No, Durham didn't. It was Schafer.

[00:33:40.050] - Tracy Jordan

Okay, it was Schafer.

[00:33:42.160] - Big Rich Klein

Schafer won that. Yeah.

[00:33:43.950] - Tracy Jordan

Got you.

[00:33:45.420] - Big Rich Klein

Yet Durham was at one point leading it. He broke his rear driveline, changed it, and then ran out of time, changed it on course while the clock was running, and ran out of time just before he got to the exit gate.

[00:34:03.800] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, wildest driver I've ever witnessed in all my years, by far.

[00:34:07.370] - Big Rich Klein

The original Rock Mouncer.

[00:34:09.390] - Tracy Jordan

Yep, absolutely. Crazy.

[00:34:12.180] - Big Rich Klein

And such a nice guy.

[00:34:15.870] - Tracy Jordan

Oh, great guy. I think he won the series, the first Arca series, right? In 2000. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think he won that series. And yeah, he had the same style as Shannon and Mike Palmer. I mean, just total, no fear, just on all the climbs. It was definitely crowd-pleasers to watch those guys.

[00:34:34.560] - Big Rich Klein

When in doubt, throttle out. Right. I remember the whole thing with Nelson, and then he convinced me when he said, Well, water's free. I go, Well, no, it's not because you got to have all these other stronger parts. And he goes, Rich, I'm the only one that can afford to put $15,000 worth of tungsten in each one of my rims and weld them to the rims. So water's free. Everybody can use water. And I went, All right, you son of a bitch.

[00:35:07.680] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it definitely woke up some potential in cars. That is for sure. Yeah. That is for sure.

[00:35:14.430] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. Yeah, I remember the Baja, that Baja Cabo event with Dirty Dan Brown was the weekend after an event that we did. I think it was a put up or shut up out at Cougar Butte, gates, and you blew your motor on the- Yes. Going in before the shootout or on the last obstacle or something.

[00:35:39.560] - Tracy Jordan

It was the last obstacle. I just needed to cross to the end gates to win the event. It was the very early CTMs. I bought the very first CTMs in 300 M-shafs from Jack. We convinced him to build them. And where they had jigged up to do the Myro was a weak point, and I got on that and it popped the U joint, and I'm like, no big deal. I didn't go two more feet and it popped the other one. And trying to come off, I got bellied and couldn't get off this belly, and I was literally 10 feet from the end gates. It could not get off of it, and rev limiter, and ended up blowing the motor and took second place behind Jason Pauley with all fury. Yeah, Cowboy Kenny Bartram was there, I think, running the mic for you guys.

[00:36:32.160] - Big Rich Klein

Pretty wild.

[00:36:33.310] - Tracy Jordan

Pretty wild, yeah.

[00:36:34.570] - Big Rich Klein

And is that the cowboy you rode at the score race in the Baha?

[00:36:41.500] - Tracy Jordan

It was. Baha-like car? Yeah, three, four year. Yeah, three, four years later in a Baha challenge car, 800 miles south of the border, rolling off a 300-foot cliff of him driving. Yeah, that was the same cowboy, Kenny.

[00:36:56.060] - Big Rich Klein

That one, you got messed up pretty good. You blew helmet in parts, didn't you?

[00:37:03.060] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, I got knocked out. The top door bar came down and crushed my helmet. That was definitely a scary deal. It was like 10: 00 at night, pitch black. We landed in the bottom of this canyon, and I come to, and there's fuel running out, and I was just haulering at Kenny to just get me out. I thought my arms got ripped off because they got between the door bar and the seat, so I couldn't unbuckle. So I thought my arms were gone. So he comes around and unbuckles me and peels my arms out. And I just never forget feeling the gratitude of having my arms. I didn't have feeling for two or three minutes. He dragged me out of the car. And after two, three minutes, I started getting feeling and everything. I was so out of it. I shined a flashlight up the canyon. It was nothing but covered in rocks. And I told Kenny, Kenny, if we can just roll this car over, I'll get us out of here. This is what I do. Well, we look at the car, the motor's ripped out of it, the arms are ripped out. I mean, there's no possible way.

[00:38:08.770] - Tracy Jordan

It even gets cooler. We hike out of the canyon, and our sat phones broke. We're trying to put it together up at the top of the mountain. First car comes through. We're 800 miles south of the border, pitch black. First car comes through. It's a Jeep Speed, and it's Eric Filar And he goes, Tracy, is that you? And you wouldn't believe the relief of just somebody knowing who you were in the middle of nowhere. And he actually stopped his race to make sure that we were good to go. And I'll never forget that. Just the circumstances and the coincidence and God, somebody up above, right? Making sure you're okay.

[00:38:54.710] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, and Eric's another one of those guys. It's just gold, solid.

[00:38:58.040] - Tracy Jordan

Oh, just great guy. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:01.370] - Big Rich Klein

Do you hear that he's teaching high school auto shop now?

[00:39:04.880] - Tracy Jordan

I love it. I love it. I'm such a fan because there's nobody better. Could you imagine having that as a teacher?

[00:39:12.100] - Big Rich Klein

I couldn't imagine a greater teacher. Just his sense of humor and just his knowledge and everything. It would be phenomenal.

[00:39:24.980] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah. And that fast city Bronco that he built was just the coolest thing ever. I thought was my favorite car car, and that was built like 2000, 2001, somewhere in that era. Such a cool car. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:38.420] - Big Rich Klein

So talk about how you and Pauley became so tight.

[00:39:45.580] - Tracy Jordan

We were in the second year of Arca, and I had already... My Land Cruiser burnt down in the middle of 2000. Rob and I built another car in like 15 days, finished out that season. What was it? Yeah. Yeah, and then rolled into 2001, we went to Cedar City. I got my freaking tail handed to me and knew I needed rear steer. I saw Walker with rear steer. And just our age class, I think Jason and I really hit it off. And he says, well, just bring it up to the shop and we'll put rear steer on it. Well, that's all I needed. And I headed from the Cedar City event up to Jason's. Didn't even really know him. Headed up to a shop in South Dakota. I followed him up there, got there at midnight, slept out on the FJ60 out in the front parking lot. And the next morning, we cut the whole back half of the Land Cruiser off and the door bars up. Within three hours, my My rock hauler sitting there, 80 % gone. And within three, four days, we rear-steered it, linked it, and caged it out. And that was really the start of our friendship.

[00:41:20.990] - Tracy Jordan

I mean, yeah, we did so much wheeling. I think we hit it off because we really done the same style of trail wheeling, because really, Really, in between all the events, I couldn't get enough of it. I was always trail wheeling and just breaking trails, just building new trails. And that really helped us out in the events. Just seat time.

[00:41:44.080] - Big Rich Klein

Were you living in Whitman at that point?

[00:41:47.860] - Tracy Jordan

No, I was out in El Mirage. Yeah, I came out to Whitman in 2004. But yeah, that time span, we were just nonstop every weekend. Then we were hitting Arca, Cal Rocks, Pro Rock, U Rock. So we were pretty hooked at that time. Right.

[00:42:12.610] - Big Rich Klein

Basically, the four at that point.

[00:42:15.390] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then during that time, he was building a full tube car, and it was unbelievable. It was just sitting in the corner of the shop, just half done. And He débuted that car the following year, and that was really what pretty much put a stamp on what everyone has built from that point moving forward as far as a two-seat front engine car. And then we built my matrix, which I just, at this last event, that was being built in 2001 and finished at the end of 2002. Okay. Yeah.

[00:42:58.650] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I remember when you début the matrix?

[00:43:03.390] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it's crazy enough. I début it with Tiny at Super Crawl. Right. So you really think we made a stamp on this two-seat front engine car, and then Tiny rolls in at the same event, and we didn't really know what that thing was going to do to the sport at that point in time.

[00:43:22.020] - Big Rich Klein

No, because the first event or two, they had a lot of bugs to work out.

[00:43:29.150] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, I did watch because, yeah, John Bünderent got hurt in the middle of that event, and Mitch Guthrie took over and drove that car, and I was blown away with that car, what that car was capable of. It's funny as it looked at that point in time, it was already impressive.

[00:43:49.650] - Big Rich Klein

And then Mitch took the measurements. He was secretly writing down all the measurements, and then took all the measurements to to Shannon and said, Okay, I want you to build me one of these.

[00:44:04.560] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, and Shannon, they can kick out a car in five days. It was the craziest thing. So, yeah, it didn't take long. They had a little clone of tiny, not quite tiny, but definitely close. Right. Yeah.

[00:44:20.080] - Big Rich Klein

And then you went to, after the matrix, you went to an air-cooled... Was that with Scrapper, later on? Was that your first rear engine?

[00:44:34.250] - Tracy Jordan

No, my first rear engine, I teamed up with Bruce BZ, and I went from the Matrix to... He was having Shannon build him a car, a rear steer car like Mitch's. And then he ended up buying John Nelson's car when John Nelson put it up for sale. So he bought that, talked me into getting involved in his world, which is a A whole another story. But yeah, great dude, great driver. But he had two cars. So I ran that car for a year, and I swore Shannon sabotaged me in that car. We did get a win out of it, out of Goldendale, but I struggled in that style car for sure. And then ran a John Nelson. We built two clones off of Scraper. Bruce and I did, and we ran that in 2006, the Scraper Clones. And that was my first rear engine air-cooled with the Volkswagen. Okay.

[00:45:39.030] - Big Rich Klein

Because I remember when Bruce got the Scraper car, the first John Nelson scrapper. That thing, it had the smallest sheet metal available for tabs. And he was so mad because everything kept just of breaking.

[00:46:02.790] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, John was looking for such an edge, and he was such a mind. He built it as light as anyone possibly could. Once we got our hands on it, I told Bruce, I didn't need anything that light, I would rather verbal. And then just with our driving, I felt that we would be fine without having to lay it all on the line, risking, breaking. Right. And that worked out for us. That formula definitely worked out for us. But, yeah, that car was crazy, crazy light, crazy thin. But that's what John loved about it. That's what was so neat about it. He was able to do it. Right.

[00:46:46.480] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, our first series event, him and Bonerant came out to the Lacerne, the gun club there in Lacerne Valley. And He watched Bonerant drive, and that was in the Truggy, and he was like, okay, we can build something better than that. So they took the measurements off the Truggy They put the seed in the middle of the drawing on the floor and started building. The seed on a crate, I think it was on a milk crate or something. It always amazes me when these guys build, guys that are really great fabricators, can build something, especially in those days when everything was so new. There was no tried and true, nothing that was proven yet. Whether it was Steve Remore or Sonny Honinger, just some of the stuff they came up with. I mean, what John Curry and Jeff Wagoner came up with on the fire Just some of the technology with basically a full-bodied rig.

[00:48:07.200] - Tracy Jordan

It was crazy. Yeah, there was things from... I'll never forget what the front axial was welded to the front frame, and all the suspension was on the rear axial. I mean, it was as far as thinking that far out of the box, trying to find what worked.

[00:48:26.860] - Big Rich Klein

And what was the favorite car that you drove?

[00:48:32.870] - Tracy Jordan

God, my matrix definitely was a favorite. It's why I bought that back. But as far as just taking yourself to a kid back in your go-cart days, that scrapper, that rear-engine car, are so fun to drive. They're so capable. They're so much vision out the front. They're just fun because you can see everything. I think I had more fun driving that style of car as far as fun. Yeah.

[00:49:06.610] - Big Rich Klein

The one I always liked was the Rock Bug.

[00:49:10.950] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah. I didn't even put that into the conversation, that's definitely up there, too. I mean, yeah. But we competed Pro-Mod in that and Unlimited. We ran quite a few classes in that car and KOH. So it wasn't I guess that would be my favorite, one of my favorite cars for sure. We had quite a few cars, but that was a good one.

[00:49:38.390] - Big Rich Klein

I remember when you left my son your front bumper for the Pro-Mod adaptation, I said, Here, take this.

[00:49:50.660] - Tracy Jordan

When you guys knew my feelings on front bumper for the Pro-Mod class. So everyone knew my feelings. And when it caught me and sent me for a ride is like, I pulled it off. I'm like, Here you go. I'm gone. Yeah.

[00:50:10.120] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, for sure. There were some times, some interesting stories along the way.

[00:50:15.960] - Tracy Jordan

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:50:16.900] - Big Rich Klein

Especially when you compete for so long and in so many different events a year, you've got to have as many stories or more than most people.

[00:50:29.640] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it's weird weird because I don't have good memory. But in the rock crawling Trivia, I feel like I have a pretty good memory, even though I've been out it for 15 years, just chatting with you. It sparked quite a few memories and timeline. And I only have two timelines, and it's my rock crawling timeline and my kids timeline. That's my only references in time that I have. But yeah, we have a lot of good stories for sure.

[00:51:01.590] - Big Rich Klein

So who do you feel was your your biggest nemesis to keep you off of the podium across the years?

[00:51:11.980] - Tracy Jordan

Really, to keep me off was probably And don't say my judges. No. Dude, judges are there. You're always thankful for them. I'll tell you, you learn... I was young in those days, and thinking Getting back on it now, what I'm trying to teach my kids is you can totally believe in right and wrong, and that's what I always fought for. I was always passionate for right and wrong. But the ways you handle it could get you such a better outcome coming around at a a different way. Dad learned all the wrong ways to do it. Not that dad was wrong, but I didn't handle so many situations, just as I was young, so passionate with the sport. And when you're always up on the top and on the podium, you're always there in that conversation, and there's always controversy or people wanting to knock you down. So the more you're there, the more you're always in the conversation. So it was a blessing to always be in the conversation because we strive so hard to be at the top. And along with the top comes everything else. People want to knock you down. People don't want you up there anymore.

[00:52:25.140] - Tracy Jordan

There's all that that comes with it. So all that learned is what I try to instill in my kids. Now, my daughter is exactly me, and it's a block wall when I try to explain these things to her, and she's going to learn the hard way just like I did. For sure. But she has the drive and the passion, and I love seeing that in her, and she is 10 times more competitive than I ever dreamed of being. So we'll see where that takes us.

[00:52:58.800] - Big Rich Klein

I'm glad I'm not the competition marshal now.

[00:53:03.240] - Tracy Jordan

It's a handful. It's a handful to deal with. But, yeah, I won't ever take anything back in those years. I learned so much through those years. But But yeah, that's just part of being on the box all those years, right?

[00:53:22.260] - Big Rich Klein

Because everybody's taking shots at you.

[00:53:25.160] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah. Yeah. I guess the Nelson team, it was a legitimate team that really put a lot together and came out to just straight up win. I mean, you always had Jason Pauley was a great, great driver. Super good. I mean, he would take his wins. I'm trying to think moving forward. Obviously, Jesse Haynes came into the world, was doing really well. I mean, he was catching his wins. Yeah, one mistake in that era, you were out of it. And we always prided ourselves on just staying the course and get at least back on the box, even if you didn't get the win. But yeah, it was a lot of great competitors, especially in the first few years when it was so unknown. There was so many good drivers. And Walker. Walker was freaking awesome, too.

[00:54:20.710] - Big Rich Klein

So did Jason spot for you most of the time?

[00:54:26.840] - Tracy Jordan

Jason started to spot for me in Cal Rocks. He ran Cal Rocks that first year, which might have been '02 with you. '03. Okay. Maybe it was '03. Yeah, he started to spot for me then, and then a year after that, he spotted for me at pretty much every event after that. Right. Yeah.

[00:54:49.530] - Big Rich Klein

So let's talk about family, because I know family is super important. No, wait. Before we get to that, the funniest thing I ever saw written on the Internet as far as rock crawling is going, is that Cody Wagner was coming out with a new car, was making a comeback, and it was after your comeback, where you came out for a year, won seven of the eight events, or eight of the nine events, whatever it was?

[00:55:25.250] - Tracy Jordan

Mm-hmm, and 16. Yeah.

[00:55:26.960] - Big Rich Klein

And he was coming out for the 17 season. And he puts on the Internet, on Facebook, he goes, Jesse, get ready to be beat. And Jesse comes back and says, Why, Cody? Is Tracy making another comeback?

[00:55:49.180] - Tracy Jordan

Well, we did do a comeback in '16. My kids started finding some rock-crawling stuff that we had boxed away and started asking about it. So I thought it would be cool to just go out and show the kids what dad used to do. So we had a bunch of parts, and we headed up to Poly's because that's where I go. We went up to Twister Customs. I want to say we had a roller in 13 days. It wasn't quite Shannon Campbell style, but we were on it. And he definitely helped me out a ton. We built probably the only single seat rear Moon Buggy that's probably ever been in the shop, let alone being built at the shop at Twisty Customs. And we brought it back, finished it in another week, and then débuted it at your guys' first event and won that event, and that really kicked off, sparked it for the series. And then, yeah, we won that series and then won the nationals, and then I thought it was a good time to ride off in the sunset again.

[00:56:57.390] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that was the year that I dropped the The rear steer penalty.

[00:57:03.020] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it was dropped a few years before that, and that's what intrigued us to go and run that style. So everything we ran was goal-driven. So we've won in Pro We've run Pro-Mod in Unlimited. We've won in front engine, straight axel, front engine, rear steer, Moon Buggy, straight axel. We've won in Moon Buggy, rear steer. So everything was really like a challenge driven for me to see if we can win in every configuration. I don't know if most people actually realized that, but I think we won a championship in almost every configuration that there was, which was really neat on our end, just putting a challenge in front of us. We didn't just sink in one car and run that style our whole career.

[00:57:53.620] - Big Rich Klein

One last thing on the rock crawling side of it. I was up at Poly Shop. This was quite a few years ago, and there was some Unimog portal axles up there, and I'm like, What are you doing with these? And he goes, These are Tracy. And I'm like, what? And he goes, Yeah, Tracy wants me to build him another buggy, but I've never seen that car.

[00:58:25.710] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, that car didn't materialize. It was so much going on. We couldn't get together and get anything built on that car. It was really, he came out... He's come out with so much innovation before anyone even thought of this stuff. But portals are it now. He built that FJ Monster Buggy on portals long before anyone, at least here in the US, was doing portals. And he's always been light years ahead, innovation-wise ahead, and one of the greatest minds, best fabricators, and greatest, most humbled dudes I've ever come across. We couldn't get that car going and built. I've had a couple other projects up there, too, that we weren't able to get going and out the door. But yeah, I would love to have seen what we could have come up with there. But yeah, that one didn't work out. That car didn't So let's talk about getting into the family.

[00:59:34.770] - Big Rich Klein

You and Heather have been... God, how long you guys have been married now?

[00:59:39.050] - Tracy Jordan

Well, we had our first date anniversary last week, and that was 34 years ago. So we met in ninth grade.

[00:59:47.870] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, wow.

[00:59:50.330] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah. We met in ninth grade, and we dated all through high school. We took a three-year break when went to college and wanted to go be a snowboarder and then got wrapped up in black gold. But after that break, we've been back together since. And, yeah, we've been together to this day. Okay.

[01:00:13.850] - Big Rich Klein

I didn't realize that it went that far back.

[01:00:16.920] - Tracy Jordan

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I fell in love early and been in love ever since with her for sure.

[01:00:24.360] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. That's awesome. So let's talk about the About your kids. You got some great kids there.

[01:00:34.130] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah. We had Lexie in 2010. That was the year. A lot of change for me. I had my daughter in 2010. I wouldn't say a real job, but a job outside of my family, working as a mechanic for a central Arizona project. And that's when I stopped rock crawling. So it was a huge change for me. And I just really wanted to focus on my kids and my family. And we were on the road so much and enjoyed so much of it. But it was like a new chapter in our life. Everything that we've done, we just want to do the best we can. And once we had Lexie, it's a whole different world. And that's just where everything poured. Was trying to do the best we can on that end. And then we had Luke in 2014. So now they're 11 and 14, 15, 14. I don't even know now. But it's just been that whole world, and we got into sports early with them. That's what we do every night is baseball, softball, splitting up. My daughter is on the varsity team as a freshman for softball, and it's something going on every night.

[01:02:00.920] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. Freshman? Yeah. Freshman playing varsity.

[01:02:03.040] - Tracy Jordan

That's great. Yeah. And she's so small and little. It just cracks me up. But like I said, she has a drive in her. I don't know where it comes from, but it's fun to watch.

[01:02:12.410] - Big Rich Klein

Anybody that knows you knows where it comes from.

[01:02:15.240] - Tracy Jordan

The crazy thing is, Heather is twice as competitive as I am. Nobody knows this, but she is. And so Lexie, I swear, gets it from her because she takes it to a whole other level outside of myself. Yeah, that's pretty much our world, our kids, and just running sports. We do a lot of hunting and fishing with them. And then just Last year, I wanted to get Lexie out. I bought my matrix back, rebuilt that car, and wanted to get her in it. And it didn't work out just with our timeline with softball, we didn't get a chance to really run it.

[01:02:56.190] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, because in Bagdad, she had a tournament that she was in. Because you left the competition as early as you could, as soon as you got done, and went to her tournament, and then came back the next day, and the same thing.

[01:03:15.440] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it's year round, so it's something going on nonstop, especially between two kids. But it was so neat. I got Lexie about two hours of seat time in the matrix before we went out to that event out at Baghdad. And she just impressed me so much in the two hours because that was really the determining factor if we were going to do this or not. And she did amazing. So we went out and did the event, and I just had a blast with her. I mean, we had such a good time at that event.

[01:03:49.240] - Big Rich Klein

I hadn't talked to Dawn since the event. It seemed like they were having a good time, too. Dawn Robinson, his son.

[01:03:57.670] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, they're having a good time. That car That car was a challenge for them, but they had a good time, and they're actually hitting me up to see if we're going to potentially go to the Cedar City event coming up. I don't know if we can make it happen, but it was just funny that it was brought up in conversation like, Hey, we're going to city?

[01:04:17.550] - Big Rich Klein

That'd be awesome.

[01:04:20.600] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah.

[01:04:21.370] - Big Rich Klein

So what's in the future? Are you still working for the Arizona? Is that the water project?

[01:04:28.430] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it's the water project. I've got eight more years with them to get a retirement there and really working hard towards that. And in about that time frame, the kids will be off into the real world. So we're just got our heads down, trying to raise a couple good kids that are going to be able to be sent off in this crazy world that we're in as good as we can It is a crazy world, too. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And you're just trying to understand what hard work is and be as successful as they can be out there. So we always want them to be better in what we ever did, right? Right. Absolutely.

[01:05:14.780] - Big Rich Klein

That's all we can ask for.

[01:05:16.860] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah.

[01:05:17.890] - Big Rich Klein

That's always a parents' goal, I think.

[01:05:20.850] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, yeah. Right now, it's a scary times. You definitely got to have hope, right? Yes.

[01:05:29.590] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah The world's a crazy place. There's no doubt about that.

[01:05:35.560] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah.

[01:05:36.600] - Big Rich Klein

Well, cool. So we may see you in Cedar.

[01:05:41.440] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, there's a potential. I mean, I don't know how likely it'll be. I got to wait to see what softball and baseball schedules line up to look like for April, but it's a slight possibility. Okay, cool. Yeah.

[01:05:54.370] - Big Rich Klein

And one last thing. If somebody rocked up to you, or if there's a guy or a girl out there that wants to get into rock crawling, and what would your suggestion to them be?

[01:06:14.210] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, that's a tough one. It's a pretty expensive sport, right? Right. That's what was neat. There were so many young kids at that last event. I watched a 12-year-old just dominate in Cody's car. I mean, and just make everything look easy, breezy. But I don't know what advice I'd give to them. I mean, just have fun. Obviously, you got to go out and have a passion for it. And if you find a passion for it, run with it. You got to run with whatever passion you find in life.

[01:06:48.810] - Big Rich Klein

That's solid advice. Whether it's rock crawling or snowboarding or whatever. Yeah.

[01:06:59.960] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, if you're going to do something, be the best at it, or at least try. I think everyone has a misconception of competitiveness. People say, Oh, he's too competitive or competitive as a negative. But myself, I'm driven to try to beat myself. So it's never like I'm trying to do whatever I can to beat that guy. I'm just trying to do the best that I can. And when I make a mistake, I'm very hard on myself. So outside of that, it's really an unknown. So I just try to do the best I can, and that usually puts me on the box. And that's what I try to get through to my kids. You got to have a passion for it and be competitive within yourself. You got to block out everything else around you. And usually that'll work out in the end, especially if you handle things a little differently than I did. I mean, there's ways to handle things. Just to ultimately get, sway your way. I have that competitive nature, too, and that's why it's probably better that I spent my time as an event promoter, even though that was pretty hyper competitive there between all of us promoters for a while.

[01:08:22.310] - Big Rich Klein

Ranch and I are actually, I'd call us friends now, where at one time, I don't know if you could say that, and same with Craig Stump. So I know that each one of those guys did the best that they could with what they were trying to accomplish as I was. It was just We were fighting over the same rocks, you might say, and the same rock heads, guys wanting to come out and compete.

[01:08:52.720] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, it's crazy. With age comes wisdom, and there's so much of it now looking back that you wish you can change or things that you can be grateful for now knowing that you were involved. But just really everybody. That's what it was really, how tight knit the rock crawling community was and just how cool it was to look forward to running out to Farmington and just seeing everybody and all the friends that you made. And that was what was really the driving factor of it for so many years.

[01:09:25.340] - Big Rich Klein

It was that camaraderie, everybody add. We were all sharing the same experiences.

[01:09:34.440] - Tracy Jordan

Yep, for sure.

[01:09:37.610] - Big Rich Klein

Well, Tracy, I want to say thank you so much for spending this Sunday evening. I know you've had a busy weekend with softball and baseball and the busy week at work and all that as well, and raising the family, but taking the time to talk to me so our listeners could gain a little wisdom about Tracy see Jordan share some of the history. I appreciate that.

[01:10:06.120] - Tracy Jordan

Yeah, I appreciate the call, and I appreciate going back in time a bit, and appreciate all you guys, all the promoters, for giving us a place to go out and do what we loved. So I'm so thankful to have that time span in my life. That was probably my greatest years outside of my wife and kids that I've ever had. And not many people can say they went out and did a 15-year run chasing a little dream, especially being young. Right. Very true. So, yeah, definitely thankful for those years.

[01:10:40.130] - Big Rich Klein

Well, excellent. Again, thank you so much. And you enjoy life. I know I'll see you occasionally here and there, whether it's at the parade in Wickenberg or hopefully on the Rocks.

[01:10:55.770] - Tracy Jordan

Right on, Big. I will see you there.

[01:10:56.920] - Big Rich Klein

All right. You take care, Tracy, and I'll let you when this airs. Cool. Appreciate it. All right. Take care.

[01:11:04.130] - Tracy Jordan

Good night. You too. Bye. Bye.

[01:11:06.320] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.