Episode 268 with Greg McClelland, founder/CEO of Wingshooters.org

We had an opportunity to attend a fundraiser earlier in the year for Wingshooters.org and it impressed me so much, I had to get the founder/CEO on the podcast. Greg McClelland shares his story and how he finds solace in the woods. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

2:29 – It’s humbling to see the support from folks who, honestly, don’t have any skin in the game at all

8:36 – I was taught to respect fences, but if there weren’t any fences, I just assumed that it was free              

13:34 – My roommate dared me to come with him, I didn’t want to be a cop. I ended up doint it on a fluke and just kept passing these interviews, even though I was half insubordinate and pretty cocky. 

22:28 – The outdoor recreation, hunting, being in the woods, gun smoke, campfire and bro time, talking sh*t. It makes me feel better. It’s got to help these same guys, right? 

28:20 – My goal is to build a network of like-minded organizations where we can plug folks in.

40:33 – Anything any organization can do, as long as it’s honorable and for the right reasons, man, I’m all for it; any way we can partner and help, I’m glad to do it.

Special thanks to Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[00:00:05.300] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.530] - 

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[00:01:14.190] - Big Rich Klein

My guest this week is a father, an offroader, an outdoorsman, a hunter, an ex law enforcement officer, and a man with a passion for those that have served our nation, veterans, actives, and first responders. My guest is Greg McClelland from Wingshooters Veteran Services, Wingshooters.org. Hello, Greg McClelland. It's so good to have you on the podcast today. I'm looking forward to learning more about you and your passion for your veteran services that you operate or work with and some of the other things that you do. And so let's get started. How are you doing today?

[00:01:59.380] - Greg McClelland

That's great. Thank you, Rich, for having me on. I'm doing great. The weather is perfect today here. And looking forward to discussing everything that we do and all the good stuff that folks can hopefully benefit from.

[00:02:16.030] - Big Rich Klein

I really enjoyed being at the fundraiser in Folsom. And I thought that was a good program. And it looks like you're going to need to find a larger place next year.

[00:02:29.010] - Greg McClelland

Yeah. Last year, our first fundraiser dinner was there as well. It was a little snug. Then this year, it was completely transparent. But it's one of those things where scaling up is always a challenge. For somebody, I have six or seven other entities that I run as well. This is a hobby. There's also just a time constraint and trying to make it to where I didn't bite off more than I can chew and then fall flat on my face. I'm always like, Hey, man, if we do something small but it's successful, that's great. But this time I felt pretty cramped. I was also bummed that I didn't even get to put out everything that we had to raffle because there just wasn't enough room, which is a good problem to have. We try to make sure that folks, everybody who comes has an opportunity to get something and potentially win something and so forth. But gosh, dang, this time I didn't even have enough room. It felt like things were so crowded as it was. But no, I really appreciate you guys coming. It's obviously super humbling to see the support from folks who... A lot of folks, honestly, don't have any skin in the game at all.

[00:04:06.240] - Greg McClelland

Don't know a veteran, aren't veterans, aren't first responders, but they feel like this is something that's important, and those are the real folks that make it happen. Also flanged into this and with Beyond the Brotherhood, I'm on the board as well with BTB, is finding a lot of vets looking for their next purpose and their next mission. Our folks, ironworkers, are the pirates and renegades and outlaws of the building trades. And they seem to seamlessly fit in with a lot of the Socom guys and SF guys mentality. So the next thing is really I'm plugging in guys for career opportunities. So that's a set aside, but it's all It's all connected, right? Right.

[00:05:02.700] - Big Rich Klein

It all ties together.

[00:05:04.280] - Greg McClelland

Yeah. My folks, I had several companies there at the dinner, and a couple of them that I've actually hired some of the guys. And then they see, okay, outside of work, everybody's obviously got bills to pay, but outside of work, to see something that's just for the general purpose of overall well-being and It's still connectivity to a tribe, which is really one of the biggest reasons I think that that guys mentally get in trouble is a disconnection from the tribe. So out there hunting, smack-talking. Yeah, it all works. Gunsmoke, campfire. When you're in the world, four-wheel driving, being out in the woods, it's all good stuff. It's all therapeutic, in my opinion.

[00:05:59.270] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, so let's Let's give some people the background of Greg. Where were you born and raised?

[00:06:07.720] - Greg McClelland

I was born in Southern California. And as the son of a former Brownwater sailor. This is back when, prior to, I think, the initiation of declared war in Vietnam, they were advisors. My dad was actually an advisor in the Navy. This is early '60s. Being in the military, he obviously there was some moving involved. We moved around a little bit, and then later he became a defense contractor. So moved around different parts of the world, lived in Southeast Asia, lived in New York. California was always a home base. So it really is not a simple answer, but there was... California was always the resounding safe place, if you would. Northern California ended up being the bigger part of my childhood, upbringing outdoors and exposed to sporting hunting and things like that.

[00:07:14.730] - Big Rich Klein

While you were moving, you were pretty young then, and then you settled in Northern California?

[00:07:23.140] - Greg McClelland

Yeah. Moving around, I think I went to nine different schools. Oh, wow. Yeah. Then the last, I would say, for the last 35 years, I've been here in Northern California. But as a youngster, the more important years, pre-teen and teen, Northern California, lots of family up north from the cattle industry and ranching industry. So that was always home base.

[00:07:55.780] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And that gave you your outdoorsman and hunting experience experience and all that stuff.

[00:08:02.930] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, absolutely. After living around different parts of the world and then getting into Shasta County, to Hama County, being around the Sierras, I thought I was on the Ponderosa. I thought that as long as there was an offense, I could go anywhere I wanted. I'm sure I trespassed quite a bit. Sorry, everybody.

[00:08:24.130] - Big Rich Klein

Well, if there's no signs, are you really trespassing? If you don't know. If you know you're on somebody else's property, it's a different story.

[00:08:36.920] - Greg McClelland

At least that's the way I look at it. Yeah, I was taught to respect fences for sure. In the ranching industry, you didn't cross any fences. But if there weren't any fences, then I just assumed that it was free.

[00:08:51.680] - Big Rich Klein

Free range, yeah.

[00:08:53.010] - Greg McClelland

Yeah.

[00:08:53.450] - Big Rich Klein

You talked about spending time in Southeast Asia and growing and spending time there. How many years were you overseas?

[00:09:05.860] - Greg McClelland

So total, I think it was probably a year and a half, close to two. Philippines, did a little bit of time over in Japan, and I'd say the majority was in the Philippines. Okay. Yeah.

[00:09:20.060] - Big Rich Klein

And did you learn the language?

[00:09:22.920] - Greg McClelland

I learned enough to get by. I learned enough to shop and get in some trouble. This This is right in the pre-Marcos Overthrown days. I learned very quickly to take advantage of the lack of law or the different laws in the Philippines. For instance, there was no real drinking age limit. So at a young age, we found ourselves in nightclubs and so forth. And then lots of time in the jungle, lots of time surfing and exploring and just being little pirates.

[00:10:02.300] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. And then you come back to Northern California, and you go from heavy heat and humidity, right in the Philippines, to Northern California, where there's zero humidity, even if it's raining. But then you're in the woods.

[00:10:25.480] - Greg McClelland

It's a dry heat, right?

[00:10:26.750] - Big Rich Klein

It's a dry heat. There you go.

[00:10:28.470] - Greg McClelland

No, for sure. I I think one of the biggest shocks to my system was leaving Shasta County in April and landing in Manila. I had on insulated Levi's my hiking boots, a flannel shirt and a jacket after a 17-hour plane ride, getting off the plane and the smell and the humidity and the heat was... I still remember it to this day. If anyone's been anywhere near the Manila airport, there's a massive squatter city right next to the airport. And so leaving the airport and driving through that was my first exposure to any really, really heavy poverty and the sights, and the smells, and all that stuff. But yeah, it was an absolute shock to leave Shasta County and the pine trees and the snow on the ground to April in the Philippines, which is like middle summer. Right. Yeah.

[00:11:39.900] - Big Rich Klein

So with the military family, you're bouncing around, like you said, nine schools. Were you on base schools?

[00:11:48.940] - Greg McClelland

No. So my folks were always concerned about staying connected. So we didn't do that. We did outside schools or the Philippines, for instance, it was a private school. I think it was also because of the income increases when you're out like that, they were able to afford to send me to a private school. But still, it's like armed guards and concertina wire on the walls because there was always a potential threat of kidnappings and things like that. At the time, this is right before Marcos was overthrown, so It was very sporty in the Philippines at that time, and there was a lot of turmoil. It was always something like, Hey, we want to make sure they get real-world experience, but we get to have a bodyguard, for instance, or a driver, or something like that.

[00:12:48.390] - Big Rich Klein

Then you get back to the United States, and you're finishing up school up in Shasta, Tehane, up that area?

[00:12:58.980] - Greg McClelland

Yeah. We went Let's see. So Nova High School and enterprise High School. And then dad, at the very end, was moved down to Central Valley and finished out my last year of high school in the Central Valley. But it was all the family still up north. So as much time as I could still stick around up north, that's where I was. And that's where I ultimately landed here in Northern California.

[00:13:27.120] - Big Rich Klein

And then that's when you decided to start your Your law enforcement career is right out of high school?

[00:13:34.470] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, it was actually on a dare. A dare? My roommate at the time, yeah, I really didn't have a lot of respect for law enforcement, to be honest with you. My roommate at the time, who was older than I, was going to go take the application test for the Sheriff's Department. And he made me, dared me to come along with him. And I'm like, I don't want to be a cop. Come on. And he's like, No, man, come down. Just do it. What are you afraid of? Kind of thing. I ended up doing it on a fluke, and then I just kept passing these interviews, even though I was honestly about half insubordinate and pretty cocky. Again, I really didn't want to do that. I didn't think until I started learning more about it and getting farther along in the process. Finally, when I went to my a psych eval, I rode a motorcycle to my psych eval, and this is before the helmet loss. The psych, all he did was lecture me for 30 minutes about not wearing a helmet. At the end of that, I was certain that I wasn't going to get in And then, lo and behold, a week later, I get a call saying, All right, you're passed.

[00:14:49.560] - Greg McClelland

Come show up for the academy. I was like, You're kidding, right? So it was really a fluke. Then, actually, Got to enjoy it, and I got to enjoy the guys and all the stuff we got to get into.

[00:15:05.680] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And then where did you start your career as a law officer?

[00:15:10.170] - Greg McClelland

So it's in Kings County, so down in Central Valley. And then so I worked at the Sheriff's Department there, dove all in, got on the pistol team and the rifle team and all that good stuff, and supplemented with the I worked with the guys on the gang task force. Then I saw that a lot of guys were moving over to the Department of Corrections or CHP, and I didn't really want to be in a patrol car all the time. At the end, I was thinking maybe I could get into the state and then lateral over to fishing game, and then I could be back in the woods and I could still get out of the towns type of thing. At 21, I was picked up by Department of and then went over to Department of Corrections. Then for the next three years, worked there. Then that's where, like I said, the political change was apparent, and it was time to go.

[00:16:17.960] - Big Rich Klein

Right. You're working in law enforcement. You decide to step away from law enforcement. What was the next move?

[00:16:27.870] - Greg McClelland

The next move was I was working weekends doing some construction. My grandfather was a contractor, my uncle's a contractor, so I grew up when we were back home. Whenever we came back, I could go work summers, make money, me, swinging a hammer, doing whatever. I was doing that on the side to make ends meet, and met a gentleman that was involved in the Ironworkers, and he's the one that approached me and said, Hey, did you ever You ever think about getting in the ironworkers? And I was like, Well, yeah. But at the time, you had to know somebody or be a legacy to even get a face-to-face. So he's like, No, trust me, kid. I know a guy. And that was it. He put that wheel in motion. And then next thing you know, I'm up on buildings doing ironwork. I did that for, shit, almost 30 Wow. Yeah.

[00:17:32.750] - Big Rich Klein

You didn't get back to the forests?

[00:17:37.080] - Greg McClelland

No, not as a profession. Not as a career, yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:39.880] - Big Rich Klein

But did working as an ironworker afforded you the ability to get out there and enjoy the woods and do the hunting or fishing and that stuff?

[00:17:53.030] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, I think number one, it was absolutely... It's a great career choice. You make a very good wage. But to be honest with you, Rich, I found out as a young kid, being outside and being unsupervised in the forest was how I burned off the crazy. The only way I felt at home was in the woods. With all the moves and all the disruption as a kid growing up, with all the being a kid and always being the new guy, the woods was really my solace. I made a point to spend as much time as I could while having a family, too. I did a lot of projects out of town. I chased big jobs, and so I wasn't always at home. But come deer season, come quail season, pheasant season, I always made the time to try to get out.

[00:19:03.190] - Big Rich Klein

And most of your hunting was done up north in California or all along California?

[00:19:10.300] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, I'd say the majority at that time, it wasn't until later in my career when I moved up and had more free time and more vacation time. And the kids are a little older that I was able to start hunting out of state. I hunt seven different Western states depending on the tags that I draw or the opportunities that are there. But yeah, primarily the Sierras from, let's say, the Yosimity area all the way up to Modok was really... Any time I could get out, explore trails, even if it wasn't deer season or if we're scouting, finding old mining camps, finding old logging camps, that was just as good. If not, a, I hate to say, consolation prize for hunting, but it's really not because it's all great stuff. It's all the history of some of the toughest people that we've ever had or the folks that went up in those woods and made a living.

[00:20:16.520] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Right. So you're a family man. You're working in the iron industry. Obviously, you moved up into management positions, and And now you're running the council. Is that correct?

[00:20:35.850] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. So we're an association of employers. Okay.

[00:20:40.430] - Big Rich Klein

And how did this passion for helping veterans, actives, and first responders come about?

[00:20:54.060] - Greg McClelland

Well, so my oldest son was in the Marine Corps, and He was in Operation Iraqi Freedom. The company that he was with and the area that they were in, they were really shot to hell. I'm very fortunate. My son's in one piece, physically and mentally. But it was only a few years after he got out of the Marine Corps that he said something to me that changed the of my career as an ironworker and the fact that this outdoor recreation that I used for my own mental health connected. That was he had a situation where he missed probably dying by just a few minutes. It really struck me as like, Okay, I didn't spend any time with this kid because I was chasing my own career, here he is off in the woods. When he got back and he got out, he said to me, he goes, Dad, I've lost more friends to their own hands than we did in Iraq. They were rich. Like I said, they were shot to shit in Iraq. In fact, they had them. Oprah Winfrey had them on her show, a reunion for the kids that were sent home hurt and a memorial for the ones they lost.

[00:22:28.240] - Greg McClelland

When he said to me, that changed a lot of things. It really made me connect, okay, the outdoor recreation, hunting, the being in the woods, gun smoke, and campfire, and bro time, and talking shit. It makes me feel better. It's got to help these same guys, right? So reconnecting with my son and taking him out and him looking at me and saying, Dad, you don't know how much I needed this. That's where the light bulb went off. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm in a duck club. I spend a lot of time in the woods. Let me find some guys that see if they want to go. And that's really how it all started.

[00:23:15.770] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. That's pretty cool. So let's talk about wingshooters. Org and what your mission is and how you're able to help.

[00:23:30.300] - Greg McClelland

Well, thank you for that plug. What I hope the way we can help is just exactly giving those guys an opportunity to hang out with another tribe of like-minded people, guys and girls, because we've taken out female veterans as well and first responders. But that tribe of smack talk and gun smoke and campfires. For those of us who have a weird addiction to pain and discomfort in order to feel like you're accomplishing something, you don't have that in the corporate world. You don't have that being the manager at Home Depot. You don't have that being an IT consultant or a finance consultant or a realtor. I think that once that gets under your skin, you don't scratch that I think there's potential for problems, right? So where we help, at least I hope we help, is getting guys out that don't necessarily hunt. So I'll give you, for instance, I would say 90 % of the people that we take out have not actually hunted before, not critters. And so for them to go out and and have the same fine guys with the same sense of humor, the same dark humor, the same need for physical discomfort, getting up early in the morning, sloshing through the muck and the water and duck hunting, and then teaching them, hey, how to harvest game.

[00:25:20.520] - Greg McClelland

We try to do a whole holistic approach to, we're not just out here to shoot stuff and kill stuff. This is a way that you can harvest organic food. We're going to teach you how to clean it properly. We're going to teach you how to store it properly. I can show you how to cook it properly. And this is a skill set that almost everybody really started gravitating towards, right, during COVID, because it's like all of a sudden there's no hamburger at the store anymore. There's no toilet paper at the store anymore. And what would you do? So I think where we can help is provide that outlet for folks to come and and really disconnect from all of the rat race and go back to that really primal, basic tribe of folks that are feeling the same stuff you're feeling and get to go out and have a blast and enjoy an amazing sunrise on a duck pond or an amazing sunset in 10,000 feet in Nevada and you're watching elk on the spotting scope. And that stuff, for me, that's the therapy for myself personally. And I think it really attracts a lot of folks to that as well when they finally get out and do it.

[00:26:46.540] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. And how do people find your organization to participate?

[00:26:56.720] - Greg McClelland

Well, we're pretty small, but I think right now, Probably the primary source has been word of mouth, but we do have a website, as you mentioned, wing shooters. Org, and we're on Instagram as well. But I think mostly it's been word of mouth. The veteran community, especially the SF guys, the SOCOM guys, and a lot of first responders, they're a very tight group. It takes a while to earn their trust, and it takes a while for them to understand we're not in this to get clicks or likes. We're not in this to parade you around like a show pony Hey, look, we do stuff for veterans. Most of what we do never gets posted, never gets talked about, because that isn't what we're here for. What we're here for is to give guys an opportunity to go out and learn maybe a trade or a skill hunting and cleaning and doing things like this, and even basic camp stuff up in the woods that they may not have been exposed to.

[00:28:10.190] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And how can people outside How does the organization help the organization?

[00:28:20.610] - Greg McClelland

Well, so that's a great question. I appreciate that. There's always an opportunity for folks to connect with us, and however we can help make connections. One of the things I really enjoy doing is if we have an individual that contacts us from a different state, which does happen from time to time. My goal is to build a network of like minded organizations where we can plug folks in. So if you have an organization or you're aware of another organization that's similarly positioned or wants to be, you could absolutely help by making those introductions and making those connections. We are a nonprofit, so any funding that we receive goes directly to the program. We have no paid staff whatsoever. When we take folks out, we provide all the firearms, we provide the ammo, we provide all the gear, we provide the transportation from the airport to the hunting locations, the food, the accommodations. So everything that we collect goes directly back to the program. We're always looking for folks that if you have a piece of property that you're interested in, giving folks an opportunity to hunt on or fish on, then great. We provide liability insurance, and we always try to give back to our landowner.

[00:29:49.600] - Greg McClelland

So there's multiple ways. I think one of the biggest things is to understand that there's an opportunity for folks even just to go and camp and get away and connect with like minded individuals.

[00:30:05.850] - Big Rich Klein

Right. You had the fundraiser in April. That was how I met you. And Amy Segraves is the one that asked us to join her and come to the fundraiser. And it was a dinner and auction. And I really enjoyed the vibe that was going on there. And do you have other fundraisers that, or is that just the one you have right now?

[00:30:34.300] - Greg McClelland

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that and that feedback. I'm always concerned that I get so frazzled doing those that I'm not really paying attention enough to see if folks are enjoying themselves. But yeah, so far, that's been our only live fundraiser. We're putting together an online fundraiser, an online auction I think you were there. We have some blades from Half-Face Blades, which is a better known company, that we have seracoded to match certain firearms. We're going to be auction off some sets there online. But right now, it's just the one fundraiser dinner that we had, and I think you said it earlier. We've definitely outgrown that. I think we'll be looking for a bigger venue next time.

[00:31:31.780] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And you want to stay in that same, the Sacramento area? Is that the idea?

[00:31:37.970] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, that's correct. We would stick around up here. Most of our waterfowel hunting properties are located in and around the Calusa area. I try to take the waterfoule hunters in and around the Calusa area, Sacramento area. I've got an amazing network of friends and folks that have clubs that host veterans and first responders all the time for water fowel. Then for big game, if an individual has a tag for Nevada, for instance, and they're not really sure where to go or they haven't really deer-hunted, maybe once when they were a kid with their uncle or their dad, then I try to go and help guide. As I said, I hunt seven Western states, so I've got a lot of I've only saved on my onex and a lot of information in my head, and a lot of ways to not do it right. So I try to keep guys in a success file as soon as we can.

[00:32:41.860] - Big Rich Klein

And if somebody wants to donate to the cause, do you take donations? Do you have an avenue for that?

[00:32:51.460] - Greg McClelland

We do. Yeah, we are a Register 501(C)(3). We do have an opportunity to donate on the website, Anyone who's interested in doing so and has the means to do so, we are immensely grateful. We have a very small shoestring budget here, but we try to leverage a lot of relationships to give the bigger impact that we can.

[00:33:20.610] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to tell everybody that's listening and listens to this podcast is go to Facebook, go to the wingshooters. Org, org page or the Wingshooters Veteran Services. That's correct. It. That way you can keep getting information as they post it. The fundraiser, dinner and auction that we went to was phenomenal. I plan on going next year as well. I think it's a really good cause, and since it's really close by, it's easy to do. I would encourage others to join in as well, especially if you have a passion for that same thing, the outdoors, the hunting, the honor of our veterans and first responders, whether they're active or a veteran in the military services. The speaker that you had there this year was outstanding, and it was really eye-opening to listen to him speak about what they've done to try to lessen those veterans that have decided to basically check out. And I think it's organizations like yours and a number of other ones. I mean, there's a lot of different recreational activities for veterans to get involved with across the country. But organizations organizations like yours really do help.

[00:35:04.080] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, I really appreciate that. We're very fortunate that we have the trust of the guys. The speaker that evening, is a friend of mine, his His name is Jimmy May. He's a retired commander that served with Task Unit Cruiser and Jocko Willick. He's connected me with one of my good friends here, Mario, who was there at the fundraiser also a former SEAL. Mario works for me now with the Steel Council. The folks that are not close to, especially the Socom veterans, the SF veterans, that you got to understand the sustained war and I think the sustained stress and carnage that they were exposed to. It affects people obviously different ways. But I think one of the biggest things that I've heard and I've talked to, and a lot of folks I talk to, is the disconnection is the disconnection from a tribe. If folks are out there, there's lots of different organizations out there. You mentioned Amy. Amy's got her involvement and your involvement with Cal Four Wheel. Obviously, an incredible organization, the same type of mindset that we honor those who help affect and keep our freedom. We'll have a booth up at Sierra Track this year.

[00:36:39.100] - Greg McClelland

I'm hoping to talk a couple of my fellows from Beyond the Brotherhood to come. That's another organization that we partner with, Navy Seal nonprofit that Commander May is the CEO of. It's It's one of those things, honestly, Rich, that if you've been affected by it personally, it's something that you, gosh, I wish I would have had an opportunity to have this conversation with him or her or them prior to them making that decision. We don't pretend to be mental health therapists. I'm definitely not. I sure don't pretend to be a doctor. But I know one thing that when you have folks around and their sides are sore the next day from laughing so much, there can't be anything bad about that. True.

[00:37:41.380] - Big Rich Klein

Very true. Yeah, I had a cousin that was in Vietnam and doing some work there, you might say, that when he came back, he was He was pretty rattled. And I remember him fighting demons until finally he checked out. And it was sad to see that, and it was way before it seemed like anybody cared.

[00:38:20.570] - Greg McClelland

Yeah. I think there was a long period of that, too. Honestly, Rich.

[00:38:25.250] - Big Rich Klein

Where people really cared. And it's not just from recent activities. I mean, go back in all of time, warfare is brutal, and it messes the psyche. We've seen that. It's just some generations, it's been a lot quieter or just ignored, and it's a shame.

[00:38:55.370] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, I think our greatest generation is the biggest example of that, right? So our World War II vets. My grandfather and my two uncles, his two brothers, all three, served. My grandfather in the Pacific saw horrible things. And later was, just to be completely honest, as an abusive alcoholic to try to help, I think, deal with, because you couldn't deal with what he went through and what he saw and what he had to do. Another uncle who took his own life in 1976 because of the pain that he was suffering. He was one of the ones that was locked in the Battle of the Bolge. And my other, the third uncle, was actually legally blind, but he ended up being in the Moffet field doing wiring and stuff like that, so he didn't actually see any combat. And He never had any, I don't think, any issues, and he lived to be 92. The greatest generation that went through such horrible, lengthy sustained combat with no breaks, mind you, no rotation home, no leave, no nothing. We've got folks out there with jars of sand on their great grandfather's dresser, and they don't know why, because those sand are from all the beaches that he landed on and took by force.

[00:40:33.870] - Greg McClelland

Then that man came home and was a plumber or a farmer or an optometrist and never said a damn word about anything that he went through. And so, yeah, there's been a huge change. And then you look at my father and the Vietnam veterans and my other uncle who was spit upon and things were thrown at him when he was getting off the airplane in Oakland. I'll never forget it. Those guys. And then now we have this 20 plus year war and a huge amount of veterans who are just detached again from their tribe. So I mean, honestly, anything any organization can do, as long as it's honorable and it's for the right reasons, man, I'm all for it. And any way we can partner and help, I'm glad to do it.

[00:41:26.600] - Big Rich Klein

That's excellent, Greg. I The last thing I'd like to touch on is that Amy said that you used to own a Jeep.

[00:41:39.220] - Greg McClelland

Because one of the things I asked about was like, Okay, I'd like to get Greg on, but is he an off-roader?

[00:41:45.930] - Big Rich Klein

Because this is my podcast is the history of off-road, but he does a living lifestyle. Let's talk about- But every once in a while, I step out of that. So let's talk a little bit about your off-road.

[00:41:57.440] - Greg McClelland

Yeah. So it started just with Being on a ranch up north and had an old Willies that if you got the chores done, we could take this old Willies out and we could just go. We called it Booney Crashing back then, and we see how much trouble we could get in. Then later hunting all over in all these different states, realizing very quickly, Hey, my stock suburban with stock street tires is not cut it. And not knowing anything about self-rescue, not knowing anything about ratios and lockers or any of this stuff, just trying to make it work. And then so, yeah, I've got a couple of rigs that I've done over the years. The last one was a Samurai. So I took it, cut everything out from underneath. Old man emu, springovers, forward shock towers, welded in. As an ironworker, I can weld. I hope. Yeah. So fabbed up the Ford shock towers and trust my own Toyota axles. And it actually, it turned out much better than I expected. And so we banged around with that thing for a while. Previous to that, I had a 63 Scout that I bought just because I saw a movie when I was a kid about Rat Patrol.

[00:43:34.500] - Greg McClelland

You could put the windshield down and cruise around. I just didn't ever find a Browning automatic machine gun mount on the thing. That one, we stuffed a Chevy 283 in it. The other reason I bought it was because it had four gear shifts sticking out of the hop. I was intrigued by it. I didn't know what any of those things were for, but I was like, That's got to be cool. So quickly figured out what it could do and what it couldn't do. Put the C channel front-end bumper on it and the super skinny military tires on it, and the thing would freaking go anywhere. It would just about go anywhere for where I was going back then. Now, obviously, it's nothing like some of the technical stuff that you guys do. But absolutely, man, it's part of the whole freedom addiction I think most of us Americans have. It's like, I'm going to build my own deal, and I'm going to do what I want to do, and I'm going to do where I want to do it. If I get caught, we'll just ask for forgiveness.

[00:44:44.950] - Big Rich Klein

Yes. It's always better to ask for forgiveness.

[00:44:52.540] - Greg McClelland

Yeah, for sure.

[00:44:56.290] - Big Rich Klein

Well, Greg, I want to say thank you so much for coming on and being a guest on the Conversations with Big Rich. I know it's a little off topic for what we normally do, but I think it's a really good cause. You guys, I'm all in. I encourage everybody to go to wingshootersveteran services and wingshooters. Org and pay attention, like the pages, do the, donate, get involved. And if not with wingshooters, then There's got to be something close to you that you can get involved with to help out. We can't forget people.

[00:45:39.540] - Greg McClelland

Yeah. Amen to that. Rich, listen, I really appreciate you stepping out of your comfort zone, and I really appreciate the fact that you guys came out and supported. Thank you so much for the time. And folks, if you're interested in going out with us, just go to the website, fill out the contact form. And it may take me a couple of three days, but I will get back to you, and we can't see if we can't put something together.

[00:46:11.270] - Big Rich Klein

Sounds great. And again, thank you. I will get in touch with you and let you know when this airs.

[00:46:18.000] - Greg McClelland

Awesome. Thank you, Rich. I really appreciate, man. Okay.

[00:46:20.610] - Big Rich Klein

Thank you.

[00:46:21.900] - Greg McClelland

All right. Bye.

[00:46:24.160] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto can. Thank you.