Episode 293 with RJ Jackman of the Idaho Vintage Jeep Rally

RJ Jackman of Pocatello, Idaho—flat-fender fanatic, trail leader, writer, and organizer of the Idaho Vintage Jeep Rally. RJ grew up riding dirt bikes with his grandpa’s Simplot-sponsored moto crew, exploring lava fields, caves, and old mines—fueling a lifetime of off-road adventure 

Event spotlight—Idaho Vintage Jeep Rally - Free, low-friction, three-day gathering in Pocatello each August includes a Friday evening meet-and-greet, Saturday scenic trail + potluck, Sunday trail (Shelley Rocks/“Blackfoot Dump” or Lake Channel dunes); Vintage preferred (flat-fenders welcome), but all Jeeps play a role—newer rigs often sweep or help with recoveries - No registration, no fees: just show up, be helpful, and expect vapor lock, fuel pump fixes, and 45-mph 

Transcript

[00:00:05.100] 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.400] 

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[00:01:12.480] - Big Rich Klein

I'll be interviewing a guy from Idaho that is into vintage Jeeps, especially flat fenders, and actually is the promoter behind the Idaho Vintage Jeep Rally. And that's R.J. Jackman. And for those For those that are wondering, R. J. Stands for Rusty J. Jackman. So here we go. Hello, R. J. Jackman. How are you doing today? It's going to be good to talk to you. I've enjoyed you writing for 4Low while we were still in print, and I look forward to this conversation and find out more about you.

[00:01:53.040] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, I've been looking forward to it, too.

[00:01:55.800] - Big Rich Klein

So let's get right off the hardest question for somebody to answer? No, not really. But where were you born and raised?

[00:02:04.660] - RJ Jackman

That's an easy one for me to answer. Right here in Pocatello, in Idaho.

[00:02:09.700] - Big Rich Klein

In Pokey. Okay.

[00:02:11.300] - RJ Jackman

In Pokey. P-o-k-y. Yeah, I've lived here my entire life.

[00:02:21.740] - Big Rich Klein

Really?

[00:02:23.020] - RJ Jackman

Mm-hmm.

[00:02:24.120] - Big Rich Klein

So I know Pocatello. I lived there for about I don't know. We lived there for, what, three years, and then we went on the road full-time. Two years, we went on the road full-time, something like that. Went wheeling with some of you guys and stuff, and out there, some snow wheeling.

[00:02:43.980] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, I remember that.

[00:02:45.720] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that was pretty fun. The white Cherokee did well that day.

[00:02:49.620] - RJ Jackman

It did.

[00:02:50.540] - Big Rich Klein

Everybody was really surprised. The Toyota guys were like, Well, you got lockers or something in that? No, no, no, no, no. It's all stock. Just the Fenderwells and put 33s under it.

[00:03:02.560] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, those grand Cherokees actually do surprisingly well in the snow.

[00:03:07.380] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. So let's talk about you. Growing up in Pocatello, Idaho, what was the big thing that you guys did as a family?

[00:03:19.580] - RJ Jackman

We spent a lot of time actually on dirt bikes growing up. My grandpa and his... He had some friends that all worked at Simplot, and they got the Corporation to sponsor different groups through the work, and they got the Simplots to sponsor a motorcycle club. So they would go dirt biking most weekends, and that's what we did most weekends, was went and hung out with those guys. So we spent a lot of time out on the desert towards American Falls, and then just up in the different mountains. My grandpa really liked to explore mines and that stuff. Most weekends, that's what we did.

[00:04:09.880] - Big Rich Klein

Out in nature?

[00:04:12.620] - RJ Jackman

Yeah.

[00:04:13.920] - Big Rich Klein

What student were you? Were you a good student or were you one of those that looked out the window just waiting to get to the weekend to show up?

[00:04:23.640] - RJ Jackman

Mostly look out the window guy, but a mediocre student in a weird way. Not like all Bs in every class, but like A's in certain classes and barely getting Cs in other classes. So a B average student without very many Bs.

[00:04:43.380] - Big Rich Klein

I get it. That swings. Yeah. Was there anything in school that you like to do the most? Any class?

[00:04:57.540] - RJ Jackman

That's your tough question. Not particularly. I didn't have a… I guess more liked the social aspect of school than any particular thing I was learning.

[00:05:13.300] - Big Rich Klein

Did you participate in any sports or other school activities?

[00:05:19.700] - RJ Jackman

I did. I ran cross country for a couple of years of high school and enjoyed some of that, even though I don't like to run. So it's a weird choice.

[00:05:35.060] - Big Rich Klein

I don't believe in running unless I'm out of ammo and whatever's chasing me is very hungry and bigger than me.

[00:05:42.160] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, it wouldn't take long for a bear to catch me. Yeah, I did that and then tennis. And I was never very good at tennis, but I enjoyed it. Okay.

[00:05:57.000] - Big Rich Klein

When you guys would go dirt bike, and did you guys do any fishing or was it camping along with it or just daily rides?

[00:06:05.300] - RJ Jackman

Mostly camping. We'd all have our camp trailers or whatever, tents, and just spend the weekend or two or three days wherever we were and then ride from there.

[00:06:21.920] - Big Rich Klein

Do you have brothers and sisters?

[00:06:25.100] - RJ Jackman

I do. I have two younger brothers and one older sister.

[00:06:30.000] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Pretty much a full family, four of you.

[00:06:33.860] - RJ Jackman

Yep. Just a regular-size family around here, pretty much.

[00:06:38.010] - Big Rich Klein

That's true. That is true. That Southern influence you have there.

[00:06:44.320] - RJ Jackman

Yep.

[00:06:45.920] - Big Rich Klein

Did you participate in the church?

[00:06:50.100] - RJ Jackman

A little bit.

[00:06:51.600] - Big Rich Klein

A little bit, okay.

[00:06:52.760] - RJ Jackman

I was younger. Okay.

[00:06:54.960] - Big Rich Klein

Did you have any auto mechanics classes or anything like that?

[00:07:00.240] - RJ Jackman

I didn't. It's around here. The auto shop class at our school, Poky, is where I went, it wasn't very big. Then I didn't understand how it worked or I would have, but you had to do the book learning the first year. I was probably a senior by time I figured out, Oh, that's how I needed to have done that because I would have enjoyed it. But most of my mechanic skills come from just growing up. My dad and grandpa always had something they were working on. My grandpa was a machinist, and he would have something in a shop he was either building or fixing. So just observing and then a lot of trial and error.

[00:07:56.660] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. What did your dad do? If your grandfather was a machinist, did your dad work out at Simplot?

[00:08:03.660] - RJ Jackman

No, he didn't. He is a carpenter.

[00:08:10.040] - Big Rich Klein

Building houses or furniture?

[00:08:13.280] - RJ Jackman

Houses. He built a lot of framed houses, worked for a couple of different companies, and did a couple of jobs where they had more commercial stuff, too. Then that's why I I ended up doing.

[00:08:32.980] - Big Rich Klein

And are you still doing it? I am. Okay. Are you a contractor or are you working for another company?

[00:08:41.620] - RJ Jackman

Just a contractor. Okay. See, I worked with my dad, and then he's mostly retired now. So me and then my one younger brother works for me. So it's not too bad.

[00:08:56.640] - Big Rich Klein

Building houses, getting to set your own time schedule?

[00:09:00.000] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yeah. We do just mostly remodels. Okay. That stuff right now. Yep.

[00:09:07.980] - Big Rich Klein

Do you mind me asking you how old you are?

[00:09:11.340] - RJ Jackman

Oh, no, that's fine. I'm 42. 42.

[00:09:15.380] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. That's the time that I decided. That's the age I decided to start putting on rock crawls.

[00:09:22.400] - RJ Jackman

Yeah. It's never too late to start something new.

[00:09:27.020] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. I bounced around with all sorts of different things between high school, then college, and then into the work world. All sorts of different things until I found something that I decided I wanted to do instead of what I had to do. Let's dive more into your childhood. Tell me some stories about those motorcycle trips, anything that stands out, or what were those weekends Yeah, those weekends were always something we look forward to.

[00:10:07.540] - RJ Jackman

I remember just from being young, riding on the back of the motorcycle behind my dad. Crawling through caves was always fun. Or like I said, we'd go into mine shafts. Probably shouldn't have done some of that, but we got out of all of them. It's fun, especially for kids, what's better than being out playing in the dirt and seeing things?

[00:10:43.240] - Big Rich Klein

Did you go out into the lava fields?

[00:10:46.980] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, quite a bit. We would go there a lot of times in the early spring when there's still too snowy up high. You could get out there a little sooner. Then my grandpa was born in Aberdeen, so he knew where pretty much any cave was out in the desert that way, from their big butte. He was always fun out that way because he grew up. They would go out and explore.

[00:11:23.860] - Big Rich Klein

One of the favorite snow trips I did when we lived up there was the roads We went out toward like Atomic and then went into the Buttes, and then just all snowed cover roads.

[00:11:42.320] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, that's pretty fun out that way doing that.

[00:11:45.260] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, because there's nothing out there to hit. You can wreck your own vehicle, but you're not going to wreck anything else. You could just throw it into drifts and everything. It was pretty fun.

[00:11:58.520] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, that's a blast out there. We would go out there with scouts all the time, growing up to Lariat's cave out that way.

[00:12:09.740] - Big Rich Klein

With scouts, you mean scouting? Like Boy Scouts? Yeah, Boy Scouts. Okay.

[00:12:15.460] - RJ Jackman

Yes, not international harvester scouts.

[00:12:18.300] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I just need to make that clarification. I didn't know if there was a big group of scout clubs up there or something. But okay, scouting? It was scouting, yeah. How far did you get in scouting?

[00:12:31.940] - RJ Jackman

I got everything but my eagle. I even did my eagle project, and then just fizzled out.

[00:12:41.710] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, that close. That close.

[00:12:44.660] - RJ Jackman

I was pretty close. I have a big disappointment to my mom in that regard.

[00:12:48.180] - Big Rich Klein

I think she still likes me. That's the one of the things that my mom always said, what she is proud is the fact that I did get my Eagle Scout.

[00:12:59.500] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, Yeah.

[00:13:00.560] - Big Rich Klein

I think the moms were always more proud of that than the dads even.

[00:13:05.160] - RJ Jackman

No, I think a lot of the moms probably earned the Eagle Scout more than the Scout did.

[00:13:10.260] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I guess there's a lot to that. I think you're right. My mom was our den mother in Cub Scouts. She put a lot of effort into my scouting career now that I think back on it. Yeah, you're right. It is more probably for them. Right.

[00:13:31.410] - RJ Jackman

For me, it was more like, I want to go do the activities, the camping or the survival, whatever, starting a fire. Then the bookwork part of it or the other, just like it. Merit badges was never really a priority.

[00:13:51.460] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So did you guys, with the scouting, did you do a lot of backpacking? All the families He's going to drop you off in one place and then pick you up a week later somewhere?

[00:14:04.840] - RJ Jackman

No, not really. We must have had extra lazy Scout masters because we did maybe a couple of short hike in just a little bit in camp and then hike back out. Most of our bigger camping trips, actually, we drove into somewhere. Okay.

[00:14:25.980] - Big Rich Klein

I think I had a drill sergeant for one of my My Scout masters, because we would train weekends for our big backpacking trip, which would be like 100-mileer. And it was brutal, those 100-milers. I mean, I don't know why we kept going back to those things as kids. I mean, it was all voluntary. It wasn't like they showed up and handcuffed you and threw you in a van and took you off. You all signed up for it. Say, Yeah, let's go do this. And then you drug that damn pack for 100 miles or more and ate shitty food.

[00:15:08.580] - RJ Jackman

Did that.

[00:15:10.360] - Big Rich Klein

That whole freeze-dried food stuff back in the '60s When I was doing it, that stuff was pretty gnarly. It wasn't real good stuff.

[00:15:20.340] - RJ Jackman

Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

[00:15:22.520] - Big Rich Klein

Scrambled eggs were eating, scramble styrofoam. So what do you remember from those days the most? What shaped you?

[00:15:32.800] - RJ Jackman

That's probably one thing that shaped me to like jeeping and stuff was we did have a Scout master that had a big '60s Blazer He had super swampers. We just all thought that was the coolest. That was the guy you wanted to ride with. Our other Scout master had just a regular old Ford Explorer, so he always wanted to ride with the guy with the Blazer. Or go out through the desert a lot of times in that and found it enjoyable.

[00:16:08.920] - Big Rich Klein

Cool. Do you still have friends from that time period when you were growing up that you hang out with?

[00:16:18.080] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, I have several friends that I've hang out with still from high school. They like Pocatella, too, so I get to see them. That's probably most people I jeep with, I've either met them, and we've just still been friends or probably been close to 15 to 20 years with the rest of the guys that spend most of my time with.

[00:16:52.500] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Yeah, that's right. About that time that I was in the area in Blackfoot was 2009 and '10. Then I think at the end of '11, I think, is when we went on the road full-time.

[00:17:06.100] - RJ Jackman

Yeah. There was still the four-wheel drive club here in Pocetala.

[00:17:14.260] - Big Rich Klein

No four-wheel Drive Club anymore?

[00:17:17.120] - RJ Jackman

There's not. I think it just comes down to, for some people, like myself, it was like I had certain people that I meshed with well, and we just would go out and do stuff anyways. That's the people I'm going to hang out with on a Thursday and watch TV, versus I got tired of a lot of people that, I guess, wanted babysat would be the best term for it.

[00:17:56.400] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, I get it.

[00:17:57.200] - RJ Jackman

I I was the club president for a while, and I just didn't expect the drama you would get if somebody didn't like where the official trail ride was or they didn't like if you ended up going out jeeping with a couple of other guys on the other day and didn't invite them.

[00:18:24.160] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:18:25.100] - RJ Jackman

Or somebody shows up in a brand new Jeep and expects expect you to hold their hand through everything.

[00:18:36.040] - Big Rich Klein

Well, there is something to that, at least showing them how to put it in four-wheel drive and making sure they're not afraid to dent it, because otherwise they shouldn't be taking it off the pavement.

[00:18:49.380] - RJ Jackman

Right. And there is a need for that. I'm just apparently the wrong guy to deal with that need on a regular basis.

[00:18:57.920] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. It's okay to admit that, too. I mean, that's part of life. I had planned on becoming a teacher. And when I got out of college or when I was in college, I realized it was the last thing I wanted to do. Then did it all my life anyway.

[00:19:17.780] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, just in a different form.

[00:19:19.400] - Big Rich Klein

Yes.

[00:19:21.280] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, and that's how that was. I'm really not a stickler for rules. It's like with a lot off-road clubs, it's like you have to have a tech inspection and you have to have this criteria, that criteria. People want to say like, Okay, well, you can only do this with these tires or whatever. I'm a guy that's like, If you have a somewhat janky tow hook and a good attitude, I would much rather deal with that.

[00:19:53.660] - Big Rich Klein

Right. I get it. I mean, there are club runs that I've been associated with or shown up to where it's like almost a full state inspection, they're going through everything. And it's like, I've never had a vehicle until I think my raptor now that actually the emergency break worked.

[00:20:19.360] - RJ Jackman

Yeah.

[00:20:20.380] - Big Rich Klein

And they would go, Well, your emergency break doesn't work. You can't go on this run. I was like, So we're going to be parked on a steep hill all day long? You know what? I grew up in San Francisco. I never used my emergency break.

[00:20:34.160] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yeah. You just knew how to park. Yeah. I was sweating bullets. We did Sierra Trek probably 10 years ago now. I had the Cherokee that I took, and I had sorted everything and made sure I fit all the criteria, but they find tooth coma, and rightfully so, that's a tough trail.

[00:20:56.800] - Big Rich Klein

Four dice is a rough one. Yes.

[00:21:00.960] - RJ Jackman

But we did okay. I didn't even have a front locker. We were just right up front. We woke up at 2: 00 in the morning and drove to the start of the trail, so we weren't in the back. I would be through an obstacle, and the spotters would be going, Okay, who doesn't have the locker? That's me, I guess.

[00:21:29.640] - Big Rich Klein

I I didn't have one. I never use the lockers until I absolutely have to. I'm one of those that believes you leave the tool in the bag until you actually need it.

[00:21:43.500] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[00:21:44.360] - Big Rich Klein

If you can drive it without it, without damaging the vehicle or damaging the terrain, drive it.

[00:21:51.080] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, for sure.

[00:21:52.480] - Big Rich Klein

And then put it into four-wheel drive, and then put front or rear locker, and then put both lockers, and then, God forbid, pull out the winch line if you have to, or a shovel in the snow.

[00:22:06.980] - RJ Jackman

It's always the shovel, it feels like for me.

[00:22:13.380] - Big Rich Klein

I try to avoid that. Luckily, my grandson, who lives up in Blackfoot, spent eight or nine weeks with us this summer, and we went to... We did a tour of sand dunes Dunes in Nevada. Okay. And we started off at Sand Mountain. He'd never been in the sand dunes, and so we ripped around the sand dunes, and then there. And then we did some backroads, trails all the way down to Tonopaw, Nevada. And there's a sand dune down there I'd never been to. And we drive out to it, and there's a tow truck coming out, and a Subaru cross-check stop coming out behind them. And I'm thinking, we started laughing, oh, they got stuck. Like, ah, ah, ah. So we drive in and I'm going along the edge of the sand dunes on a flat road, and I see the light is dropping. The sun is dropping pretty fast. And so I said, okay, we got to get up to this one spot. So I can get a really good picture of this Razorbacks. I mean, they're really... It's called Razor Dunes, and the reason is, is because of the way the sand forms. I mean, they're just really sharp.

[00:23:26.740] - Big Rich Klein

You couldn't drive over the top of any of them. I mean, you might be able to launch off of them if you could get up them, but I don't think anybody can. And so we're on the flat, and I'm trying to get to the spot I want to go, and all of a sudden, the truck just sinks. Okay. I'm still at 40 pounds of air because I air it up after we got off of the off of the sand mountain. And so then I dropped air pressure, still couldn't move, four-wheel drive couldn't move. Locker couldn't move. And all I did was keep dropping, sinking down and down and down and down. And we're on flat. And I'm like, Okay, here we go. And I told the kid, I said, told my grandson Jacob, I said, Okay, now you're going to learn how to use a shovel and max tracks.

[00:24:11.120] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[00:24:11.780] - Big Rich Klein

And so for about 120 feet, 150 feet, we had to back up, getting out because I was not going to try to go forward any farther, but get back to where the ground was more solid.

[00:24:25.840] - RJ Jackman

Get back to where the ground was good.

[00:24:27.160] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. And it took us about an hour, but we got out.

[00:24:32.500] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, the shovel is probably the best recovery tool, especially in sand and snow.

[00:24:41.880] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Have you ever done up the big sand dunes you guys have up there?

[00:24:49.400] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, in Saint Anthony.

[00:24:50.470] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, Saint Anthony.

[00:24:52.300] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, several times. We don't go there too often, unlike most of the guys I drive with now are vintage stuff. So Go Devils and Skinny Tires don't necessarily love those bigger, softer dunes.

[00:25:09.860] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So let's talk about how you went from motorcycles and ended up into four wheel drives.

[00:25:23.940] - RJ Jackman

Okay. It was probably high school. Growing up also, we would take the truck hunting. I would say I got into thinking off road was cool between scouting and then going up hunting and driving around. It's just the same experience as more cycle as far as getting out and exploring. Then in high school, my buddy's brother had a Toyota, so he would take us mountain biking a lot, and we would all load the bikes in his truck and then drive up to the top of Black Rock Canyon that's just here, or Kimport peak, just places just close to town and ride down. I thought like, Hey, driving up is also as fun as riding our bikes down. So when it came time for me to buy a vehicle, I was like, I need to have a four-wheel drive so I can explore these places. I'd started looking at the off-road magazines and being like, This looks like something that's pretty fun. And it was.

[00:26:41.840] - Big Rich Klein

So then what vehicle did you end up purchasing?

[00:26:46.500] - RJ Jackman

I bought... It was an '86 Rangeer that was forest service green and had... I don't even know how much. It probably had a four-inch lift on it, had a gajillion miles. But I had 33-inch tires. My family's always liked Fords, so I was like, it's half as much as a Toyota that some of my friends had. It looked neat on the big tires, so I bought that and just took it all over. Ended up, I took it to Moab. We had been down on our bikes before, but I had no idea what I was doing. We just figured like, Hey, let's go down for spring break. Just picked up some people, smushed us on the trail, and been like, These guys are idiots. They took us around. It was a lot of fun.

[00:27:47.400] - Big Rich Klein

It's always classical when you can designate yourself as probably having been the idiots.

[00:27:57.240] - RJ Jackman

Yeah. I'm certain, looking back We had it now, but that was probably... I can't even remember. We were on, I think, Hell's Revenge. There's some guys on Twitter, and they ended up showing us around It was a great week.

[00:28:18.580] - Big Rich Klein

That's a good thing about the four-wheel drive side of the sport or industry or lifestyle of off-road is that it doesn't typically matter what you drive.

[00:28:34.160] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[00:28:36.000] - Big Rich Klein

Unless, of course, it's the brand new $120,000, $150,000 JL or Gladiator, and the guy's the first Jeep owner, then first-time Jeep owner, and he's got one of those, that they can be snooty.

[00:28:56.640] - RJ Jackman

They can be. I think that it goes both ways. A lot of times you see somebody... Anyways, for me, I see somebody that just the bought vehicle, and then something breaks, and then they're standing there scratching their head and don't know what to do.

[00:29:17.420] - Big Rich Klein

That's true.

[00:29:18.660] - RJ Jackman

It's usually the guy in the crappiest vehicle in the group that goes, Well, I guess I have to fix this because I know how, or we just leave this guy here for the bears to eat.

[00:29:31.580] - Big Rich Klein

And that doesn't happen very often, unless somebody feels entitled. Like, Well, you need to fix my rig. No, I don't need to do anything, actually.

[00:29:44.460] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[00:29:45.660] - Big Rich Klein

You better be humble there, dude.

[00:29:49.320] - RJ Jackman

Well, people will catch you off guard sometimes, too, because you'll have somebody show up in that rig that you think was just... Maybe it was, but then the guy actually knows his stuff.

[00:30:00.000] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:30:01.760] - RJ Jackman

That I- Start making, How are you going to fix this? Your debit card is not going to do that. And then they actually fix it.

[00:30:09.400] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. But typically, you can tell driving style if the person is experienced and not just bought the vehicle.

[00:30:23.660] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[00:30:24.880] - Big Rich Klein

We did a media run one time, and They had spotters out there for us, and I was there to test the tires that we were driving on. And some of the others were influencers from outside of the off-road industry, drifters and rally car drivers, things like that. So this driving on the rocks in Big Bear and in Cougar Buttes was completely different and foreign to them. Me, it's what I grew up doing. And so the spotters were trying to spot me on the trail, and I just asked them not to. And they got the attitude like, Oh, this guy's an asshole. And it was like, no, because I was doing things. I didn't want to put all my lockers on and drive it. That doesn't show me how the tires work. I'm doing an article for the magazine. It's like, Just back off. Let me do what I'm doing. I'm I'm not holding anybody up because I'm the last in line. If I want to, I can drive around everybody on the obstacles anyway, so leave me alone. Let me have some fun. They couldn't recognize that point, but I think what it is, is that they were fairly new to the sport themselves and just with one of the local clubs.

[00:31:49.820] - Big Rich Klein

But they learned.

[00:31:53.700] - RJ Jackman

Sometimes you get in those events and it's like, Well, I'll ignore the the spotter most of the time and just do what I want anyways. Then unless it's one of your buddies spotting, sometimes it's iffy anyways. So many different vehicles act a different way on the obstacle anyways, as far as if you have a shorter wheelbase or whatever particular combination of things, it doesn't all work the same as a four-door wrangler.

[00:32:26.680] - Big Rich Klein

Right. That's one of the things. What I One of my noticing is if a spotter keeps putting somebody that is spotting numerous vehicles, and they're putting them into a bad spot, and not being successful with their spotting, I am definitely not listening to them.

[00:32:44.560] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[00:32:46.380] - Big Rich Klein

There was one time we were on behind the rocks, and at the very beginning, coming off the highway, there's that a gatekeeper obstacle. I'm in the Cherokee, and I'm working my way from right to left, trying to get up that. I just couldn't find that sweet spot at the top to get over the top. And all of a sudden, I hear somebody said, Hey, do you want to get spotted? And it was Eric Follard. And I'm like, Yeah, where the hell am I at? And he goes, Just come a little bit more left and throw some gas at it. And popped right up. I mean, I've driven up that thing three or four times without anybody, but I just couldn't feel like I could find that right spot.

[00:33:39.080] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yeah. Sometimes there's something you just can't see.

[00:33:42.040] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. Somebody like that just happens to drive up. In fact, I think he was in a flatty, too. Probably. Yeah. It was like, Yeah, I'll take your advice. Tell me where to go.

[00:33:58.220] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, you have to do some profiling. Somebody like Eric, definitely. He probably doesn't admit it too often. He is a Cherokee guy, so he probably knew exactly your line.

[00:34:08.540] - Big Rich Klein

Right, exactly. Oh, no, I know he's a Cherokee guy. He's the Falarsky brothers. So you get the Ford Explorer. It was a Ford Explorer, right?

[00:34:26.500] - RJ Jackman

Ranger.

[00:34:27.010] - Big Rich Klein

Ranger. Okay. And What was the next step after that?

[00:34:34.840] - RJ Jackman

I had that, but of course, I still wanted a Jeep always, like the I wanted something without a top and looks cool and gets girls and couldn't afford an early Bronco even then. They've only got more ridiculous. I always complained, I want a I'm on a Jeep, I want a Jeep. My mom came home from work one day and she said, I've got this lady I work with. She was ate over to school and said, her husband has this Jeep and he wants to just get rid of it. But he wants $50 for it. I said, Well, that sounds exactly like my price range. I went and It was a flat Fender, Rusty, beat up, hadn't ran since... That was in '99. The Jeep hadn't ran since the '80s. And he just basically wanted it out of his side yard, so I bought it. He wanted to sell me a towbar with it, and he wanted 30 bucks for the towbar. And I was like, No way I'm paying 30 bucks for a towbar and $50 for a Jeep. So it's actually that's the flat funder I still have. It took quite a bit to get it running, but it did.

[00:36:09.280] - RJ Jackman

The motor ended up, it wasn't seised, so I got that running. I had to replace every little bit of break lines, the master cylinder, slave cylinders, drove it how it was for a little bit, and then I painted it and just slowly been making it the pile of parts it is.

[00:36:35.900] - Big Rich Klein

You never went like the CJ7 or TJ or JK route?

[00:36:42.780] - RJ Jackman

No. I bought that, and then I had that in the ranger for a while. Then that ranger was giving me grief, and I bounced through different trucks and SUVs, but always just kept the flat fender and kept progressing it.

[00:37:03.420] - Big Rich Klein

You now collect, or did you just pick up barn finds and then flip them? Is that what you're doing?

[00:37:11.760] - RJ Jackman

A little bit If I see flat fender parts for sell, I'll buy them. My buddy Jason and I bought a ton of tubs and stuff. He has flat fender, too, so we usually just hang on to stuff because inevitably you're going to need parts. Then I'll end up buying another... I've had a couple of Willy's Wagons now. I have a Wagoneer that I'll buy and then end up using it for a while and then selling it. Not necessarily to flip it, it works out that way, but just not as passionate into it, I guess it would be. So I I'm not emotionally connected as I am with maybe my flat vendor.

[00:38:07.180] - Big Rich Klein

Let's talk about your vintage rally and what you do and how that came about.

[00:38:17.740] - RJ Jackman

I had attended a couple of... During Easter Jeep Safari, Brenan Metcaff has the Friday Flat Fender Fun run. It's the last Friday EJAS, and we just get a bunch of flat fenders together. You don't have to have a stock one. It can be modified just as long as it has a flat fender body on there, like come out of fun. So you get 50 or 60 of those doing a trail that's a little bit on the harder side for the stock ones, for sure. It just was so fun that I thought, Well, this is something I could probably do at home and get... We're in Idaho, it's not a big event. Maybe get 10 or 12 old Jeeps together, do the same thing, follow the same rules as that. You don't pay to do it. Loose on what vehicle you can have. I figured, if it works, it works. If it works, it Because if it doesn't, it doesn't. It's not really a big deal. And apparently it worked. So we've been doing it... Let's see, we've had it eight years now.

[00:39:44.340] - Big Rich Klein

Wow.

[00:39:45.580] - RJ Jackman

And people keep showing up. The good thing is it's free. So I always tell people, and I think some people have gotten the point that I'm serious about it, is that you get what you pay for.

[00:40:01.480] - Big Rich Klein

It's just basic.

[00:40:06.180] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yeah, it's basic. It's a little on the disorganized side compared to some things. I think people like that to a degree. Once in a while, I'll get somebody that's not comfortable not having a map of where we're going or that doesn't like the unstructured side of it. But if one thing you ever learn is you can't make everybody happy.

[00:40:41.340] - Big Rich Klein

Very true. How do you advertise this? How do people get involved with it?

[00:40:55.700] - RJ Jackman

It's mostly communicated through our Facebook page, which is Idaho Vintage Jeep Rally. And then we have an Instagram that I think it's just Idaho Vintage Jeep. So we communicate through that It's easy to get involved with because all you have to do is show up. We don't do registrations or anything. We don't have enough other stuff going on that we really even need volunteers to do things. A lot of people would like... I Older people, especially, would like it to have just its own website or a newsletter or something, but that's too complicated for me.

[00:41:36.720] - Big Rich Klein

Especially since it's free.

[00:41:39.240] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[00:41:41.060] - Big Rich Klein

Becomes a job then. Exactly.

[00:41:44.060] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, it took me a while. The first year, I actually, I was like, Okay, we're going to have a meet and greet type thing, and we're going to do it at the park. And it took me just days to figure out the process of that. Then I talked to the person in the Parks Department, and I have to get insurance and do all this scheduling. It cost me $300. I'm like, That's just not great. I just paid it out of pocket. The local Jeep dealership ended up paying part of that, actually, because they wanted to be involved. But the next year, I got to think, and I'm like, Well, we can just park at this in the parking lot next to the park, and it's free. I've worked out a system to where we can still have everything free and still be in the shade and have a place for kids to hang out while we're popping hoods and that type of thing.

[00:42:49.600] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And then what do you do? Do you do everybody goes on one trail, or do you have a couple of guides that just take people and they rotate?

[00:42:59.080] - RJ Jackman

We're We've done everybody on one trail so far, and it's gotten to the point we had maybe a little less than 50 people on our... Like the Saturday of the Jeep Rally, we do a scenic run and we get a little more people on that one. We had close to 50 this year. It was fairly manageable. We had more people last year, actually, and it was about to that point where we probably I could have divided it up because you get just one little hiccup and then you're spread out for 20 miles. But it's free, so we just keep doing what we're doing. I don't know at what point I'm going to have to call it and say, either have a max per group or not, but we'll make sure that it's a complete disaster the year before we do that.

[00:44:08.020] - Big Rich Klein

Wait for the disaster to do disaster relief.

[00:44:13.100] - RJ Jackman

There you go. Right. You don't know the breaking point until you break something.

[00:44:17.560] - Big Rich Klein

Right. How many cars did you have that first time?

[00:44:24.700] - RJ Jackman

The first year, it was a little better than I expected. We probably had close to two dozen. A lot of it is... I have some great friends that they're not too far away. Logan, Ogden. We had quite a few people from the Boise area that ended up coming. We're a good location as far as that way. Pocahontas is not a huge city, but it's within a couple of hour drives of a lot of bigger areas, or there's a lot of enthusiasts in that radius.

[00:45:09.740] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. How many days do you do this?

[00:45:13.420] - RJ Jackman

We do it three days. So a Friday. And we've been doing that. So you meet Friday in the evening at the park, and that really cuts down on time later in the weekend because people can get to know each other and everybody wants to check out all this cool Jeep. So gives you a little bit of that time. So you're not doing so much of that at the gas station the next morning when you're getting ready to go hit a trail. And then we do a scenic trail, generally on a Saturday. And then we've been doing, probably last four years, a potluck dinner that night at our shop. And then Sunday, we alternate between there's a nice lava flow trail out past Blackfoot. We've always called it Shelley Rocks. They just made it a Jeep budget on our trail and call it Hills Half Hacker. That's a point of content for me. I call it the Blackfoot Dump, because that's where everybody from Blackfoot takes their trash, and then we have to go clean it up. But We split between there, and then we'll go every opposite year to Lake channel. It's sand dunes and some rocks that's out past American Falls.

[00:46:45.760] - RJ Jackman

It's a good place for a good size dunes for flat fenders and older Jeeps that might have some skinnier tires.

[00:46:55.660] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. Any plans to take it on the road and and go outside of the area?

[00:47:04.540] - RJ Jackman

We've considered that. It's a little tougher logistically for me to just handle that and the stuff. Then just the time away from home is a little tougher. As far as you have to go scout it for a couple of days and then spend a couple of days up there. I wouldn't mind maybe in conjunction with what we've been doing. I've thought about a more point A to point B type thing, like the different adventures, but on a flat funder scale. Probably instead of a thousand miles over the week, you do maybe a couple of hundred up towards central Idaho or even from here to northern Utah areas.

[00:47:59.700] - Big Rich Klein

There go. And who are the guys that help you out with all that?

[00:48:07.620] - RJ Jackman

My parents do quite a bit by force because our shop's at their house, so they feel get it to keep it maintained for when we do the dinner there, and then they have a field that people camp at. So they end up doing a lot. My mom always does way more than necessary. I tell her it's not a big deal, but she keeps wanting to do more and more. My buddy Tony, Tony Monies, he's had to step in and guide trails on occasion, and he does a lot to help herd the cats and whatnot. Buddy David Owens has done a few times out Either helping lead a trail or that type of stuff. And then I've got my friend Jason that I've been friends with since I was just a baby. He's been the tell gunner quite a bit, actually, because he's usually driving his newer Jeep because his flat fender is not in operating condition all the time.

[00:49:21.460] - Big Rich Klein

What? A flat fender that's not in operating condition all the time?

[00:49:25.880] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yep. But he Actually, it was running this year, so he didn't have to do any sweeping. So that was good. His dad will be the tell gunner a lot, too. He likes hanging out back and watching us be dorks. He even will come to Moab and follow us around in his JL with his air conditioning on.

[00:50:01.020] - Big Rich Klein

I'm liking the air conditioning parts of Jeeps nowadays.

[00:50:05.540] - RJ Jackman

It's convenient sometimes.

[00:50:08.540] - Big Rich Klein

With age comes, I don't know if you'd call it privilege, comes the necessity for comfort. You don't build them as tall, so it's harder to get in and out. Although the new Cherokee that I'm almost done with now, finally, has ended up a lot taller than I thought it would be. But once we get it done, then I'll cut it and probably respring it. But bring it down to where it needs to be. But that happens. You can make all sorts of plans, and then when everything comes together, it's like, Well, that didn't work out the way I wanted it to. It did, it just a little taller.

[00:50:57.920] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, that happens. Yeah, and the roof and the heat, sometimes that stuff's nice.

[00:51:05.280] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, definitely a roof. I used to have a '48 flatty that I bought off It was in a field. Same thing. It was in a field outside of Cedar City. And I got it. This was back in the '90s, and I bought that thing for a couple of hundred bucks. I didn't plan on... I wanted the title more than anything. Because I was going to end up with a buggy, which never happened. But the thing was just rotting away. So we just threw some sheet metal in the floorboards and then did a speedliner, like a Rhino-lining, Line-X type, inside and out. And left open a couple of spots where we could throw grounds and that stuff. But just this dark green forest green-looking rhino-lining type everywhere. And I mean everywhere. And it had a bee pillar hoop was all it had on it for protection. And I tried rock crawling that thing at Three Peaks back in the day in the '90s before it became an actual park. And there's some pictures of me going off a ledge, standing it up on the front wheels, the back wheels off the ground, and me trying to put my head back underneath that bee pillar thinking I'm going over.

[00:52:44.480] - Big Rich Klein

Because that one tire moving in the front may not have... It may not move. But it was a fun car. It had a little aluminum V8 V8 Buick motor, I think it was, or Oldsmobile motor, and it was the- Yeah, probably a 215.

[00:53:06.640] - RJ Jackman

Yep.

[00:53:07.740] - Big Rich Klein

And that thing screamed. It was amazing. It was great in the sand dunes down there in what's now Sand Hollow.

[00:53:15.420] - RJ Jackman

Yeah.

[00:53:16.600] - Big Rich Klein

It'd climb all the dunes with those 33s under it.

[00:53:19.540] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, it's really hard to be a flat fender with a V8 in the sand.

[00:53:26.140] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, so true. So what's in the future?

[00:53:33.580] - RJ Jackman

More of the same. If I ever... Tony and I are building a flat fender right now. We're trying out some things, but we're super slow at that because we are always working on other junk. So maybe that'll ever get done. We're going for low on it. And links. It should be a fun on Jeep if we ever finish it. And then with the Jeep Rally, I think so far we're just staying the course. Probably do something a little more special for the 10th anniversary in two years coming up.

[00:54:15.820] - Big Rich Klein

But no plans yet on what that special is going to be?

[00:54:20.600] - RJ Jackman

No. Probably, last year we did a bigger raffle. We made a Nation to Blue Ribbon Coalition. So I got in my uncomfortable spot and went around and asked different companies for better raffles and stuff. Every other year, we have a pretty decent raffle, but I don't really solicit it. It's just people that, for whatever reason, like me or like the event, and I'll send stuff without being asked, which is pretty good still. But I'll probably do something like that again for the 10th anniversary. I'm I just hate. I hate the going around and asking for handouts part of it, even if it's for a good cause. It just makes me uncomfortable. And you always find it's funny because the people that donated were more than happy to do it.

[00:55:18.200] - Big Rich Klein

Especially if it's a great cause, like Blue Ribbon.

[00:55:21.800] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yeah. And I like to be selective about, not that it's a big enough event that it makes a difference, but be selective about where I'm promoting as far as, Hey, even if I'm asking for something, I want it to be from somewhere that I know, Hey, they're treating their customers right. You have a little bit of that in the vintage Jeep world where there's certain companies that push the Chinese stuff, and they don't really care Sure, they'll do a return or something, but if your fuel pump doesn't work, they could care less. Or there's guys that sell parts, vintage cheaper, for instance, that He tests every fuel pump that comes through his business to make sure it pulls vacuum. It's doing what it's supposed to be doing. So I've tried to be more like, Hey, It's like, we're promoting something, it's something that we're about, we're into.

[00:56:36.380] - Big Rich Klein

It's much better to do that, not only for the fact that you're working with companies that are honest, have great products, but have that same value. Because you don't want to get in the middle, especially on something that donated and you give it away. And then the person that gets it comes back and says, starts complaining, and basically it falls on you.

[00:57:11.560] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yeah. I don't want to be in the middle of any of that.

[00:57:14.400] - Big Rich Klein

Right. We did that with our event series. We brought in... We wouldn't bring in sponsors that we didn't feel comfortable with.

[00:57:23.220] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[00:57:24.020] - Big Rich Klein

We looked for marketing partners that were That were like-minded. There was actually some marketing partners that I fired and won't ever do business with again. It's because their true colors showed at some point.

[00:57:44.200] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yeah, and that did the same thing. When I was writing for Flat Fender Eficionado monthly with Travis, we didn't take any sponsors at all or advertisers, which is a terrible business plan if you're trying to publish books, by the way, as far as making money. But it allowed us to just say anything. I never once could say anything and have something come back and say, Hey, actually, these people are foot in the bill for the print, so you've got to say something different.

[00:58:31.540] - Big Rich Klein

I've always been that way up front with people. When we were doing four low and somebody sent me products to test, I'm like, Well, before you send it to me, understand that I'm going to be brutally honest. You better make sure what you send to me works the way you advertise it. Different tire manufacturers would say, Hey, do a review on my tires, and they'd send me a set of tires. It's like, Okay, but you got to understand, if there's a deficiency, I'm going to talk about it. I'm not going to sugarcoat or you're going to become Tire of the Year, Truck of the Year, because you paid the biggest, sent me the biggest check. That doesn't work.

[00:59:21.560] - RJ Jackman

Right. And it certainly makes you wonder with some of that stuff over the years. It's not like I've been When in the industry, I've been around people that are in it, sometimes you're like, Well, how bad am I going to talk about Jeep if they're sending me a Jeep to test for six months a year, or they're inviting me to the event in Moab, or they're paying for me to go here and there, if I do a bad review, is that going to affect my ability to go to the next all expenses paid trip to Detroit?

[01:00:02.180] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[01:00:03.840] - RJ Jackman

So I liked writing for you and for Travis, and I liked that I didn't have to worry about, Hey, I wasn't getting anything in the first place, so I could just be honest about how I felt anyways.

[01:00:21.860] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Well, and that's the way we were. Everything that we did, we talked about was true feelings. If And if something wasn't what it was advertised, the best part of it was either I could say it or I could just not run it. I could just not run that article and say, listen. And if somebody asked, well, how come you never wrote up on this thing? And it's like, well, because your product sucks. And do you really want me to say that?

[01:00:54.280] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[01:00:55.020] - Big Rich Klein

I mean, as long as nobody knows that I have it, I don't have to say anything about it. If you want me to say something about it, I'm going to say it, and you're not going to like it.

[01:01:04.220] - RJ Jackman

That's what I'm going to say. Right. Yeah, that's fair.

[01:01:09.460] - Big Rich Klein

I was like, we almost had a TV show at one point with The Rock Crawling with We Rock, we had a lot of different producers trying to get something done with us. And they wanted... None of it was real. It was all more fake-ality TV. Right. They call it reality, but it's not. It's fake-ality. Oh, for sure. I told them, There's no way. We're not going to work with you. The one time, this lady was pretty persistent in trying to get us to do something. I said, well, let me tell you how it's going to be. If you do the editing and make our events, our drivers, my staff or myself look like idiots because you've manipulated the situation. I said, I'm going to walk into your office and somebody's going to get a beat down. And she said, you'd hit a woman? I said, no, but I'll bet there's a man in that office, and he's going to take one for the team. She stopped calling.

[01:02:19.610] - RJ Jackman

It was a selective beat down, but it beat down nonetheless.

[01:02:22.640] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. She stopped calling, so I didn't have to worry about hurting her feelings anymore. Right. But it's hard to... Sometimes it's hard to progress something by being honest all the way across the board, because then people are afraid that you're going to just rip them.

[01:02:45.660] - RJ Jackman

For sure. I think, especially in some of those circumstances. But we also, we end up with, hey, we're ending up with worse vehicles because of it, I think. That's my personal feeling is the lack of honesty sometimes is they're sugar coating things to not take somebody off so they're not actually presenting the problem.

[01:03:11.340] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Very true. So then what time of year is your vintage Jeep Raleigh? And how do... I guess it's just get in touch with you on Facebook or just show up?

[01:03:29.440] - RJ Jackman

Yeah, just show up. We float around August, depending on different things that I'm not even sure myself why we change it, but it's usually the second or third weekend of August. Here in Pocatello, the best way to find out about us is to follow the social media stuff that we do. We try and announce the date In the February, March time of year. I had a son going off to college this year, so I had to plan around when I had to move him, and then he ended up switching which college he went to, so it changed anyways. It's free. If you show up, we'll do something anyways, even if it's the wrong weekend.

[01:04:25.980] - Big Rich Klein

Right. That's awesome. So any other information on the event people need to know before they show up?

[01:04:37.200] - RJ Jackman

We prefer vintage vehicles, and that's a looser term than anything these days, I think, because somebody might say, Oh, my my YJ is 30 years old. Is it vintage? Well, no, not really. We don't consider it. But if you showed up in a '91 Grand Wagoneer, we'd be like, Hey, nice in its Jeep. It's a float there based purely on how we're feeling that day. But we've never turned anybody away regardless of what they show up in. My rule is, show up in something too new, we're just going to put you in the back and just assign you to either help people that break down or pick up the parts that fall off along the way. And that works. And warnings People like, Hey, there's going to be vapor lock issues or fuel pump issues, or a lot of guys only will drive 40, 45 miles an hour, toped out. You give people a fair warning about that ahead of time, and a lot of the guys with newer, more capable vehicles don't show up anyhow.

[01:05:53.600] - Big Rich Klein

Sounds good. Sounds perfect.

[01:05:55.880] - RJ Jackman

Yeah. Other than that, no registration, no fees. So we have no clue how many people are going to show up or what they're going to be driving or anything. So just show up and have fun.

[01:06:06.880] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. That sounds like the perfect event for some.

[01:06:12.000] - RJ Jackman

For some people, it is.

[01:06:13.420] - Big Rich Klein

For me, it sounds perfect because one of the things about Moab, and I'm probably going to shoot myself in the foot on this and never get invited on another company run or corporate run, is that you get everybody in the parking lot and it takes an hour to get out of the parking lot, and then you get up to the trailhead, and it takes another hour to get started. And then you do three hours. You go five miles on a trail that should take 35 minutes, and it takes hours. And then you get to the end, and everybody's hanging out in the parking lot. And it's great because you get to talk to people. But you can do that all just sitting in the park.

[01:07:00.000] - RJ Jackman

Right. Yeah. Brennan says that about the flat fender run. A lot of times, one of these years, we're just going to sit in the parking lot and BS, instead of actually even going and doing a trail.

[01:07:13.460] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. Give everybody the option. Hey, I'm just going to sit here for the next six hours. Anybody that's going to want to sit here, anybody that wants to go out, know that we'll be here in six hours. Sounds a lot easier.

[01:07:25.680] - RJ Jackman

That is at times, and especially with us, it's like Inevitably, somebody's going to have some problem or break down, so your hour's past what you would expect.

[01:07:40.020] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, we did a magazine. Well, it wasn't the magazine, it was the It was a We Rock Dirt Riott family night run down in Moab. We did a dinner, like a spaghetti feed, and then we went out on the trail. We did behind the rocks, but it was the easy part of behind the rocks. We left at 8: 30, started the trail. I didn't get back until 4: 30 in the morning because of two vehicles. It was nothing that they could help. It wasn't that they showed up with vehicles that were messed up. It was just the the way it worked out. I was like, Okay, I don't need to do that again.

[01:08:36.860] - RJ Jackman

For Vintage Deep Rally, we could never do a night run because that's exactly how it would be. I always tell people like, Well, who cares how good your Jeep's running? We'll figure it out. What better place to bring a Jeep that's not working right than where there's 40 people that know how to work on it?

[01:08:58.500] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[01:09:00.120] - RJ Jackman

But yeah, if we left at night, it would be probably two days later that we actually got home.

[01:09:09.320] - Big Rich Klein

Well, R. J, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. And I hope this next year, your event is everything you want it to be. And when the 10 rolls around, maybe I'll show up. I don't know if I'll have a vintage Jeep yet. I've been wanting another flat Fender for years, and it just doesn't seem to be happening. Until I get more parking, I'm not allowed to bring anything else home.

[01:09:40.940] - RJ Jackman

Right.

[01:09:41.780] - Big Rich Klein

And so when you're limited in parking, it's really hard to make a decision on what to get rid of and what to bring back in.

[01:09:53.280] - RJ Jackman

For sure.

[01:09:54.660] - Big Rich Klein

I'm stuck with what I got for now. But thank you so much for for spending the time. Yeah, it was a pleasure. I look forward to wheeling with you again someday. Yep. All right. Will you take care, and I'll let you know when we air this.

[01:10:13.520] - RJ Jackman

Okay. Thanks, Rich. All right.

[01:10:14.920] - Big Rich Klein

Thank you, R. J. Bye.

[01:10:16.440] - RJ Jackman

Bye.

[01:10:17.400] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.