From Backyard Builds to Baja Wins with Jagged X’s Bill Schueler in Episode 294

Big Rich sits down with Jagged X Off-Road founder Bill Schueler to trace the journey from a Phoenix garage to the front lines of UTV racing and aftermarket innovation. Bill shares how his sons Justin and Brandon turned a high school hobby into Jagged X, the early Rhino craze, and the fateful call from Polaris that put them on the map—leading to the first-ever desert race for the Polaris RZR.

Highlights: 

- Chicago roots to Arizona life: construction, dispatching, and launching a successful transportation brokerage. 

- The backyard beginnings of Jagged X: lifted golf carts, early Yamaha Rhinos, and magazine features. 

- Polaris partnership: becoming an aftermarket development partner and fielding one of the first RZR race cars.

Transcript

[00:00:05.100] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.400] - 

Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two, Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread victoriously.

[00:01:11.380] - Big Rich Klein

On today's podcast, my guest is going to be Bill Schueler. Bill Schueler is the principal behind JaggedX Racing, and used to be Jagged Extreme, went to JaggedX Racing, and is now JaggedX Off-Road. And he's A trucking dispatch company is what he owns as well. His exit strategy is the kids to take everything over, which is a great exit strategy. But Bill, I'm glad you're able to do the interview today. Thank you.

[00:01:43.900] - Bill Schueler

Rich Klein, how are you, my friend?

[00:01:45.480] - Big Rich Klein

I'm doing great.

[00:01:47.260] - Bill Schueler

Good to talk to you. Yeah.

[00:01:48.640] - Big Rich Klein

I'm really looking forward to this interview. We first started talking. We met at King of the Hammers, I believe, at one point.

[00:01:59.820] - Bill Schueler

I I think you're right. I think you're right. If it wasn't maybe even prior to that, maybe at a We Rock thing, maybe over here in Arizona, even possibly before before KOH, possibly.

[00:02:07.920] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely.

[00:02:08.580] - Bill Schueler

I haunted those places for a while before the whole KOH thing took off.

[00:02:15.160] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. Then, yes, that must be when we first met.

[00:02:18.580] - Bill Schueler

Cool.

[00:02:19.760] - Big Rich Klein

Anyway, let's talk about you. Most of the people that listen to this podcast have heard me go on and on and on about myself. So let's talk about Bill Schueler. Where were you born and raised?

[00:02:32.520] - Bill Schueler

So I was actually born in Chicago, Illinois. My parents up and picked up and moved me out here when I was four years old. My dad got laid off from his job back in Illinois and came home one day and said, Hey, I don't have a job. And we always wanted to move to Arizona, so let's move to Arizona. And so my mom and I and my sister stayed back while my mom sold the house. My dad drove out here in a 1963 Volkswagen Carmen Ghia, or a squareback. Excuse me, a squareback. Okay. And black, no less, with no air conditioning. And drove out here to Arizona to find out that he needed to get something else. But yeah, so he came out and started hunting for a job. My mom sold the house, and then we hopped in our two-door Rambler, and we drove to Arizona with my mom, my sister, myself, and my grandmother. And lo and behold, that's how I got here. I don't remember any of that, but that's how it happened, I guess. So we ended up here in Arizona, been I've had a North Phoenix area ever since. And here I am today, not planning on leaving anytime soon.

[00:03:51.800] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. And I can understand that. As long as you can get through those three god awful months in the summer where- It's five. Is it five? Okay. Yeah, I guess.

[00:04:02.540] - Bill Schueler

It sure seems to be.

[00:04:04.430] - Big Rich Klein

Sometimes it even seems longer than that. I get it.

[00:04:07.440] - Bill Schueler

It can be. Yeah.

[00:04:08.850] - Big Rich Klein

Having lived in Idaho, that's how the winters felt.

[00:04:14.500] - Bill Schueler

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, if the weather is perfect, then everybody goes there. Look at Southern California, right?

[00:04:22.220] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Except everybody's escaping there now.

[00:04:27.300] - Bill Schueler

Exactly. They're coming here. Yeah.

[00:04:29.220] - Big Rich Klein

They're there. And where I'm at now, right now, Texas.

[00:04:32.540] - Bill Schueler

Texas? Yeah.

[00:04:34.880] - Big Rich Klein

And the Northern California people are all bailing to Utah and Idaho.

[00:04:41.120] - Bill Schueler

Montana and Utah, Idaho. Sure. I can't blame them. I can't blame them for wanting to get out of there. As long as they, as long as where they get where they're going, they don't do what they did when they were there.

[00:04:53.480] - Big Rich Klein

Well, I think most of those- If you know what I mean. Yeah, I think most of those that are leaving are businesses or Conservatives to begin with, because the off road industry is, we do have some non-conservatives, but for the most part.

[00:05:10.520] - Bill Schueler

It's dominant. Yeah, it's definitely dominant, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Which is good. Maybe that's why I found it to be my home.

[00:05:17.400] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Yeah, exactly. So when you were growing up, and I guess at age at four, leaving Chicago in a two-door Rambler with all your belongings and your sister, was she older or younger?

[00:05:33.670] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, my sister was older than me. She was 11 years older than me, actually. Oh, wow. Okay. So she was a teenager. Yeah, absolutely. And she was bitter because she was leaving her friends and so on. So She pretty much remained bitter the rest of her life, but that's okay. But yeah, so I don't remember a whole lot about that. The first year or so that I was here after that, then things start to come together when we first bought our first house out here. I remember that pretty well. We were in North Phoenix. We moved out in the sticks, if you will, and Northwest Valley and the Orange Grove area out there. And we bought a little house there, and that's where I started school. And we moved a few times throughout my school years.

[00:06:25.320] - Big Rich Klein

And now that area of North Phoenix has just been swallowed up, and it's no longer really North Phoenix, is it?

[00:06:32.140] - Bill Schueler

No, no. It's Central Phoenix at best. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, it was the road that... The main cross streets where I was, if anybody knows Phoenix, Fifth Avenue and Dunlap, which at this time now is literally... I mean, it's a huge city. And I mean, the city goes on for 20, 30 more miles to the west and 20, 30 more miles to the north. And yeah, so it's definitely... It was in the sticks then. I mean, it was That Dunlap road turned to dirt just about a half a mile past my house. And so, yeah, we were out there, but it sure grew up fast.

[00:07:09.200] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:07:10.300] - Bill Schueler

And we kept moving northwest. And now where we live now, my house that I'm in now, that I raise my kids in pretty much. We've been there now for 26 years, and we were in the sticks when we moved out there, if you will. We moved back out to the sticks, and now we're surrounded by the city, too. But I can't move now. It's done. So I'm here forever.

[00:07:34.360] - Big Rich Klein

You're there forever.

[00:07:35.500] - Bill Schueler

No more This is my forever home. No. Well, unless they put me in a home or something, which is possible, I suppose.

[00:07:41.300] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's when you got to be careful on how much authority you give your kids when it comes to businesses or anything else, any of your affairs.

[00:07:51.100] - Bill Schueler

That's true. You got to keep them on your side for sure. Yeah. Yeah. You can't be too big of a dick.

[00:07:58.740] - Big Rich Klein

I I'm in trouble. Oh, boy. So then growing up as a young kid and only a short distance from that first dirt road, what was it like growing up back then?

[00:08:15.700] - Bill Schueler

It wasn't bad. I don't think I ever really wanted for anything. I mean, my family, we didn't have any money, but I didn't know that. Every Christmas came around, there was someone on the free for me, so that was cool. And I always had a decent bicycle to ride, and never starved to death, that's for sure. But we didn't grow up rich or anything like that. We had a very, very modest house, and modest cars, and we went camping every now and then. And we didn't do a lot of big vacations or anything, because, again, my parents didn't really have any money. But we did manage to do a couple of vacations here and there. And my parents took me down to Baja, Mexico, when I was about 12 years old. I'm like, well, this is cool. Going out in the estuaries and raking for clams and riding my bike around in the little resort down there, which was a sterile beach at the time, still there. And I go back there and it's like, Wow, where did I used to ride my bike when I was 12 when I was here? It's still there.

[00:09:25.520] - Bill Schueler

When we started racing Baja and stuff, we go to sterile beach. But yeah, Yeah, so growing up was pretty good. I'd change schools a few times because we moved, and changed houses a couple of times. My dad followed the real estate market a little bit, and made a little money on real estate here and there. When the market was up, he'd sell a house, and we'd go and buy another house and have to move. And that was one thing. They're like, You'll adapt. You'll be fine. You'll make new friends. Okay, and I did. So that was good. Got to go to the same high school for all four years, so that was Good. Went to Thunderbird High School in Northwest Phoenix, and that wasn't a bad thing.

[00:10:04.960] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:10:05.880] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. Got through high school, and my parents never really pushed me to go to college. So me, as a young kid, it's like, well, I think I'll just take a year off. Well, here I am. No college.

[00:10:19.740] - Big Rich Klein

No college, right? That's okay. You've done well for yourself.

[00:10:23.360] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, it's worked out. It's worked out.

[00:10:26.050] - Big Rich Klein

What student were you? Say in those seventh, eighth, through high school, were you- I was a solid, solid, low B student.

[00:10:42.620] - Bill Schueler

I did what it took to get through, and that was about it. I never really... Honor roll was really never on my wish list. And again, my parents didn't really push me to do that so much. And Because they both worked and they were busy, and so they weren't super involved in my schooling and my school life and stuff. So I did enough to get by, and to be honest with you, the bees came pretty easy. So Everyone won't seem to be happy with that. So it's like, well, why push myself any harder than I need to? Get my homework done before I get home. Have time to go play with my buddies. So that's what we did. And that's how I got through school the whole way, really. Even high school was about the same thing.

[00:11:33.420] - Big Rich Klein

And what was that play time after school hours? What was that?

[00:11:38.700] - Bill Schueler

What was it like? There was a few years where I played a lot of basketball, goofed around playing a lot of basketball. But then after that, It really became... Man, bicycles was my thing. I raced BMX for a few years until I got too tall, really, to ride a 20-inch bike. Now it doesn't matter. These guys are doing crazy shit. But, shit, there's 60-year-old guys jumping off cliffs with mountain bikes, and so I'm like, holy crap. I was never that great, but man, I had fun doing it. And I built a couple of BMX bikes from the ground up. My dad helped me with learning my way around a toolbox. So that came pretty easy for me. And yeah, I raced bicycle, motocross a little bit, and we rode around and terrorized the neighborhood a little bit. Yeah. Kicked over plenty of garbage cans and mailboxes and stuff like that. Never got in too much trouble. Good.

[00:12:40.840] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's good. My goal in life has been never to get a mug shot.

[00:12:50.680] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, well, there you go.

[00:12:52.070] - Big Rich Klein

And there's been a couple of times where I probably should have had one, but I was always just a little too smart or a little too quick. I don't know which. Nobody's ever going to accuse me now of ever being quick.

[00:13:04.340] - Bill Schueler

Well, I'm pretty sure the closest I've come to actually going in the clink has been in Baja. Oh, me too. That was more than once. But We smooth-talked our way out of most of that.

[00:13:17.480] - Big Rich Klein

We just ran. We took off out of Scorpion Bay, went over through La Parisma on the race course, going backwards. It was after a peninsula run, and then over to Buena Ventura. And yeah, we decided not to stick around and see what the cops had to say.

[00:13:40.820] - Bill Schueler

I hear you. Yeah, we got pulled over for stuff that we did and stuff that we didn't do and managed to talk our way out most of the time, for the most part.

[00:13:52.000] - Big Rich Klein

For the most part, yeah.

[00:13:52.860] - Bill Schueler

Or buy our way out. We did that a number of times, too. It's amazing how the fine is always just about the amount that you have in your wallet.

[00:14:02.380] - Big Rich Klein

Isn't that amazing? Yeah. And they could almost tell.

[00:14:06.040] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. We learn really quick that you don't keep that much money in your wallet. Right.

[00:14:11.640] - Big Rich Klein

I was down there with a couple of guys, and we were in San Felipe, and they had been drinking. Luckily, I had not been drinking, or at least not much. And we were driving, and I couldn't close the passenger side door all the way because there was a that was tied to the seat mount and around the running board, so it wouldn't hit the ground, because that road from Gonzaga Bay up was really bad. And we got pulled over for eye pollution. And what that meant was that the cargo light in the bed of the truck was on. The guy points at it and he goes, eye pollution. I'm like, what? He goes, I have pollution.

[00:15:03.400] - Bill Schueler

I have pollution. There's a fine.

[00:15:05.540] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, boy. I'm like, oh, no, no, there's no fine. I go around to the side door and the guy in the back seat is going, How much? Mordita or whatever it is to pay the-For the fine.

[00:15:22.610] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, for the fine. To pay the fine.

[00:15:23.930] - Big Rich Klein

I'm telling Jody, Shut up. Shut up. No, no, no, not yet. I keep trying to slam the door. Finally, I get the door slammed hard enough to where the light goes out. And I said, See, no eye pollution. I just jumped in the truck and took off. Took off. And they just stood there like, damn.

[00:15:40.920] - Bill Schueler

Okay. Yeah, I almost had some money out of that.

[00:15:43.350] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly.

[00:15:45.000] - Bill Schueler

It's funny.

[00:15:46.180] - Big Rich Klein

Always things like that happen in Mexico. You just never know.

[00:15:48.940] - Bill Schueler

It is. It's crazy. It is crazy.

[00:15:52.640] - Big Rich Klein

So what did your dad do when he was in Chicago for work?

[00:16:01.700] - Bill Schueler

My dad was always a purchasing guy. He worked in purchasing or acquisition for various different companies. He was working for a big plastics company doing purchasing, and they were struggling or whatever. The company was struggling, and they had just a major round of layoffs. Again, I don't really know what exactly he did, but I know he was in purchasing. He ended up in purchasing when he got out here, too. He ended up being a purchasing manager for for a liquor distributorship here in Arizona. And he did that until he retired. So nothing too exotic, and certainly nothing too exciting.

[00:16:44.300] - Big Rich Klein

But he must have been handy. He had a Volkswagen square bag.

[00:16:50.000] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, he had a small set of tools that he could manage to make work somehow or another. If you got to use a bigger hammer or more my script, but you can get it done. Right. He didn't never want to pay anybody to do anything. He tried himself before he'd pay anybody to do anything.

[00:17:13.260] - Big Rich Klein

Wreck it just enough where he had to have somebody else do it.

[00:17:16.420] - Bill Schueler

Exactly.

[00:17:17.700] - Big Rich Klein

I've done that a few times myself.

[00:17:19.840] - Bill Schueler

You and me both. You and me both.

[00:17:22.160] - Big Rich Klein

So did you work during high school?

[00:17:30.000] - Bill Schueler

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I work construction. I started working construction when I was still in high school, actually, and worked for a building contractor that was actually building the houses where we were currently living. And went to work for them after school and stuff, and on Saturdays. And then when I got out of school, I went right to work for them as basically a laborer. And that ended up working out to my advantage, because I spoke really, really good English, as opposed to a lot of people that work there. And the superintendent took me under his wing, and I was, I guess, Assistant Housing Development Superintendent, basically. I was his main go-to guy to make sure that all the subs were getting things done and did a lot of punch out on houses that were almost finished. So I'd go through and do drywall repair and do paint repair and make sure that the houses were ready for final inspection and make sure that the ground crew were doing all the landscaping and getting all the grade work done. So that was a cool time for me. And then that job or that subdivision finished out, and they were starting another one.

[00:18:45.660] - Bill Schueler

They asked me if I wanted to learn how to frame houses, and I'm like, Yeah, sure. So I went and I learned a little carpentry and started framing houses, did that for a couple of years. And that was back in the early '80s. I graduated from high school in '80, and that was in early '80s, and the construction industry here was really up and down. It was all over the board. And you'd work for six months, and you get laid off for a month, and you work for six more months, and he'd get laid off for a month. And that was frustrating to me. And I finally got offered a job with this trucking company. My dad pointed me in the direction. It's like, Hey, these guys are looking for somebody to learn how to do dispatching stuff. And I'm like, Well, shit. It can't be. I mean, it can't be... Got to be more stable than carpentry and construction work. And better in the summer, that's for sure. It's definitely air-conditioned, right? And so anyway, I went and interviewed, and they're like, Sure, yeah, they hired me on. And so I started working actually in a night dispatch position for a couple of years and did that.

[00:19:59.680] - Bill Schueler

Then another emerging trucking company was coming out of the company that I was working for. A couple of the employees had started this deal of their own, and they came to me and they were like, Hey, we need somebody to come in and I learned how to be a broker, dispatcher broker guy, and I'm like, Hey, I'm your man. I got nothing going on, right? I don't have a house. I'm not married. I got nothing really going on. I went to work for this brand new company and ended up, to just make long story short, I worked for them for 11 years, and we went from a trucking company that had one truck when I started with them. I ended up the operations manager, and we had 125 trucks when I quit. So that was a pretty busy, busy part of my life. I mean, in the midst of all that, right after I started with that company, I ended up getting married. And so I was working there right when I got married, and again, stayed working there for a long, long time. And I thought it was going to kill me, to be honest with you.

[00:21:11.110] - Bill Schueler

I worked a lot of hours, and it was pretty stressful. But we did really good, and I learned a lot. I learned a lot about transportation. And then finally, that company ended up selling to a partnership. Some other guys wanted to buy the original owner out, and he wanted it out. So he sold it to these other guys, and they didn't know their ass from their elbow. And they came in, and they were going to try and change everything and make it run the way they wanted it to run. And they didn't know anything about what we did or you know how that goes, right?

[00:21:47.160] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, yes.

[00:21:48.080] - Bill Schueler

Anyway, so long story short, I'm like, I am about done. I told my wife, I said, I can't do this. I think I can make a living off their table the scrubs. And so that's what I did. I went in and I quit, and I started my own my own transportation brokerage company, and that's what I still have to this day. So that was in What was that? 94, I think.

[00:22:17.020] - Big Rich Klein

So how does that work as a as a transportation broker? You have a number of... Who's your client? Is your client a trucking company?

[00:22:30.000] - Bill Schueler

Or that- Basically, we're a trucking company without trucks, basically, is what we are. So our clients are shippers and receivers. Our customers are shippers and receivers, and they don't know us any different than just a regular trucking company. The difference is that most trucking companies are semi-specialized in what they do, whether it be regionally or commodity-wise, what they do or what they can do, what they have the capability of doing, where we can actually contract to various different trucking companies that have various different abilities. So it's like we're a trucking company without trucks, but we have access to more, a larger variety of services than what one trucking company would have. Does that make sense? Yeah.

[00:23:20.490] - Big Rich Klein

So say I have 25 pallets of product that I need to move. I would call you in Instead of-Exactly. Instead of-Exactly.

[00:23:32.740] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, because you may call... You may have, like to say, 25 pallets of product at point A that you want to get to point B, and you got to find a trucking company that services that lane, that does A to B. Well, that's my job, is I need to know what carriers do that thing. So when you call me, it's like, yes, I know who to call. I get those guys to do it. And then basically, I charge them five dollars. I pay the truck four dollars I pay the truck $4. 50, and I make half a buck. So that's basically how it works. I buy and sell transportation services. That's exactly all it really is. It's a third party logistics deal.

[00:24:13.500] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And so Do you do this for Nationwide, or do you do it just out of Arizona?

[00:24:20.540] - Bill Schueler

We have a niche market, where we do a lot of less than truckload stuff from the East Coast to Arizona, New Texas, some California, some Nevada, that thing. But we do full truckloads, and we have over the years done full truckloads all over the country, various different things. We hauled produce, and we've hauled frozen food, and we actually haul a lot of liquor. That's what our mainstay is, is we haul a lot of liquor, imported wine, and whiskey, and that thing. Interesting. But yeah, it's a niche operation for us. So Justin came in about 10 years ago, and the Jagged X thing, him and his brother were getting along, but not as well as they should, probably.

[00:25:15.000] - Big Rich Klein

And I think Justin-Imagine that, brothers?

[00:25:17.040] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. And Justin looked at us like, Hey, what's your plan here? I was like, Well, I don't really have a plan. He's like, Well, maybe let's talk about that. And so we did. And Basically, long story short was that Justin expressed interest in wanting to do this. And at that time, we were actually still racing a lot. We were full-time racing. And that wasn't really working out because Justin was now having kids and whatnot. And it's like, Yeah, I can't really be going to the races and being gone for weekends. And this whole nine to five thing sounds a lot better. And so we made a deal. And it's like, Brandon, this whole off-road thing is going to be like your baby. And this transportation thing, this is going to be your baby, Justin. So everybody shook their head up and down and said, yeah, I think that's going to work. And here we are today. That's what we're doing.

[00:26:16.340] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. So how do... Before we get into how Jagged X started, let's talk about vehicles you've owned. What was the the first vehicle that you owned or you drove when you got your license?

[00:26:37.460] - Bill Schueler

All right. So the first vehicle I had was a pickup truck. My dad bought a brand new truck in 1971. It was a '71 Ford F100 longbed pickup truck, two-wheel drive, four-speed, 360, just a truck. And he drove that truck. And then when I got my driver's license, that became That became my truck. So that was... He gave me his truck. And so that was my first vehicle. And I took pretty good care of it and drove it for a couple of years and decided that I had to have a four-wheel drive. So I went out and I was working construction, so I was making big money, right? Or so I thought anyway.

[00:27:22.640] - Big Rich Klein

Up and down, at least.

[00:27:23.560] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. Yeah. I was making big money. I was maybe making like maybe $9 an hour. So it's like, well, shit, I'm going to get a loan and go get me a four-wheel drive. So I did. I found a truck and I went and bought a '76 F150 four-wheel drive truck and went and bought a lift kit for it and put big old 36-inch bias-plying mud tires on it. And yeah, I did that.

[00:27:56.460] - Big Rich Klein

Were you one of those flying high customers?

[00:27:58.740] - Bill Schueler

Oh, hell, yeah Yeah, I was all over. Well, actually, back then it was actually giant off road, believe it or not. This was before flying high. Wow.

[00:28:05.900] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:28:06.500] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. My first lift kit came from giant off road. Wow. So that was the first one. And Rich, I'll be honest with you, I've actually tried to list when I was sitting around doing nothing, trying to list the number of four wheel drives I've owned in my life, and I lost track after the first four years.

[00:28:26.660] - Big Rich Klein

Really? I've had so many trucks, and so many four wheel drives, and so many different vehicles.

[00:28:33.920] - Bill Schueler

I mean, a lot of them come to mind as being very special that I own for a long time, whatever. But God, I went through so many of them. It was just crazy. I was always looking to do the next new cool truck, and trying to come up with something different. After that '76 half ton, I ended up getting a three quarter ton, a F-250 four-wheel drive with a 390 in it. That was a beast of a truck. I had that for a while and got rid of that. Then I did another '77 Ford F-250, and that was going to be the truck that I pulled my jet boat with. I bought a jet boat that I couldn't afford and kept that for a couple of years.

[00:29:16.320] - Big Rich Klein

You were in construction still?

[00:29:18.440] - Bill Schueler

Oh, well, no. At that time, I was still doing trucking, but I didn't have any money. I didn't have any money. But by that time, I had a house, and I was married. And now we're looking at kids. Justin was born in '86. So I didn't wait around. I got out of school in '80, and we had Justin in '86. So it wasn't that long. My kid's going to be 40 in January, for God's sakes.

[00:29:45.320] - Big Rich Klein

It's crazy.

[00:29:47.140] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, it's crazy. Time flies.

[00:29:49.740] - Big Rich Klein

So how did you meet your wife?

[00:29:54.060] - Bill Schueler

Well, we went to school together. We went to high school together. We knew each other, but we never dated in school. But after I graduated, a year after I graduated, a buddy of mine came by the house one day, and he's like, Hey, my dad's moving to Washington, and I'm going to stay here. You want to get an apartment? I need a roommate. I'm like, All right. And so we started looking at apartments. That weekend, we go out and start looking at apartments, and I hadn't given it two thoughts to moving out ever. I hadn't even It crossed my mind, really, because I did whatever I wanted, and it wasn't a bad place to live. So I'm like, Yeah, sure. Sounds good. So we went out, we found this apartment, and it happened to be in the same apartment complex where what was to be my future wife was living. So we actually lived with our parents around the corner from each other, basically. I mean, two blocks away, went to the same high school, never dated, never really associated with each other. And then we moved in this apartment complex, and within a month, we were dating.

[00:31:01.020] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, chip. Within a year and a half, we were married.

[00:31:03.880] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. Okay.

[00:31:04.960] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, yeah. Kind of cool.

[00:31:06.700] - Big Rich Klein

So who initiated the dating? Was it you or her?

[00:31:10.480] - Bill Schueler

Oh, no, it was me. Oh, yeah. It was definitely me. Well, I guess her inviting me down to her apartment to watch TV was probably... Maybe it was her. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly how that worked.

[00:31:22.000] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, you better find that out, though.

[00:31:24.300] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, but we hit it off pretty- Before this airs. We hit it off pretty well. So, yeah.

[00:31:30.000] - Big Rich Klein

And I take it you're still married?

[00:31:33.000] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, same person, same wife. Yeah, 43 years. Wow. Yeah, pretty proud of that, actually.

[00:31:43.410] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, you should be. You should be. That's almost rare nowadays.

[00:31:48.320] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. You know, women, you can't live with them. You can't live with them.

[00:31:51.360] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah.

[00:31:54.400] - Bill Schueler

No, it's good.

[00:31:55.760] - Big Rich Klein

It's illegal to kill them.

[00:31:57.560] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, you can't kill them, right? But we've had a great... Raising two kids, and we both are on the same page with raising the kids, and now five grandsons, and we're having the time of our life. I'm not going to say golden years yet, but we're getting there. And yeah, life is good. Life is really good.

[00:32:19.420] - Big Rich Klein

So five grandkids?

[00:32:21.480] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. All boys? All boys. Wow. Justin's got three, and Brandon's got two.

[00:32:29.280] - Big Rich Klein

Interesting. Okay.

[00:32:30.880] - Bill Schueler

So very busy, very busy. And both Brandon and Justin have built houses literally within a mile of our house. So we're all in the same hood now. The kids can ride their bikes to our house, and the Their high school is right down the street, and it's good. They're involved in sports, and they're involved in the church, and they got very, very, very busy lives.

[00:32:57.180] - Big Rich Klein

Good.

[00:32:57.940] - Bill Schueler

That's great. Yeah. And We tag along with all of it. And then we still try and do all this other stuff, too. All this off-road stuff.

[00:33:08.760] - Big Rich Klein

So let's get into Jaggedex. How did that all come about?

[00:33:14.740] - Bill Schueler

Well, Well, okay, so the house we live in today, that we live in now, it's on a fairly big lot. We got a big detached garage and stuff. Well, when the boys were still in high school, Justin was a senior, and Brandon was a sophomore. They're two years apart. So they actually started fool around in a garage, of course, with my encouragement, on building stuff. I had a welder, and I ended up going and buying an abrasive tube notcher, so these guys could learn a little fabrication, right? And so not only did they learn it, they just took to it like a duck to a lake. And next thing I knew, they've lit my garage on fire twice. They literally have got friends, and neighbors, and everything. There's vehicles in the backyard, they're doing this, they're installing lift kits on trucks, they're doing roll cages on golf carts. I mean, it was just like, What are you guys doing? It was like, Well, we want to build this. We want to do that. It's like, Well, why don't you start charging people to do this stuff? You can't be doing this stuff for free forever.

[00:34:30.000] - Bill Schueler

Well, that's a good idea. Yeah, okay. So anyway, they basically started this whole deal in the backyard, in the garage, started working on stuff, and realistically started building like, lifted golf carts. They're back now. So that was a fad that went away and is coming back now. It's crazy. But then suddenly introduced to the market was the Yamaha Rhino, right?

[00:34:58.300] - Big Rich Klein

The first one, yeah.

[00:35:00.080] - Bill Schueler

Ut. That was the first UT. I mean, Polaris had the ranger, but nobody ever looked at it because they were ugly. But then the Rhino came out and everyone was like, Well, that thing is really cool. And so we got our hands on one of the very first ones that showed up in Phoenix, it came into the Apache Yamaha Honda dealer down on Camelback, and it turned up down there. A friend of mine had ordered it, and it took forever. It didn't get there in time. He's like, he He went and bought something else. And when it showed up, he's like, Hey, I got this thing, and they want me to come and get it. I don't want it. I already bought something. And he's like, You want it? I'm like, Yeah. And so we went out and we got it. So we had one of the very first rhinos in Phoenix. Well, this was when the SandSport Super Show was just beginning. I think it might have been the first year. We had a friend of ours who was doing automobile painting, and he's like, I want to paint one of these rhinos. I want to paint it all trick.

[00:36:04.400] - Bill Schueler

It's like, Okay, cool. I'm thinking, You know how to do that stuff? He's like, Yeah, we can do it. We'll do it. We'll do it. We ended up doing two rhinos We tricked them out, painted them all fancy, did roll cages on them, and put fancy wheels on them. We ended up taking them over to the Sandsport Super show and putting them in, I think it was progressive trailer's booth, maybe. I don't know. We didn't have a booth space, but we found a spot to park them at the show. Well, lo and behold, I told Justin, I said, If you're going to do this, I said, You need to get some business cards. So me and Chris were on a vacation that weekend, and of the Sandsport. So we were actually coming back in to LA. We were actually on a cruise. We were coming back in to LA that weekend. My phone starts ringing off the hook on Sunday. He's like, Dad, this is crazy. Chad already sold his Rhino, and everybody wants to buy mine. What do I do? I'm Sell it. He's like, It's crazy money. Chad sold his for $30,000. And I'm like, Sell it.

[00:37:08.260] - Bill Schueler

Then we won't have one. I'm like, Sell it.

[00:37:10.490] - Big Rich Klein

He can buy another.

[00:37:11.520] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, we'll buy another one. He's like, Dad, this is crazy. So anyway, to speed things up, we now got in the rhino building business out of our garage, right? And so we were actually going, buying rhinos in other states, and bringing them back here and then customizing them and selling them, or selling them and then customizing them for people. It just became one of these just insane deals. It didn't really even have the company existing yet. I had a cousin of mine who had an aerospace machine shop, and we had talked to him about doing some little trinkets and billet parts and this, that, and the other thing. And he's like, Yeah, we can do that stuff. So we actually got together with them, and that's how we came up with the name. We brainstormed a little bit. It's like, Well, what's going on today is everyone's got to be extreme to the max. Everyone's got to be... Everyone has to have the most extreme stuff, because the sand cars and everything else were going just insane. The rock crawling, everything. So everything had to be extreme. So it's like, Okay, we might have to put extreme in the name.

[00:38:30.000] - Bill Schueler

And it's like, we're on the cutting edge of all this stuff. So it's like, we're going to be the Jagged Edge, right? The Jagged Edge, Jagged Extreme. Anyway, that's how we came up with the name. And It stuck, and obviously. So I told the boys, I said, Are you going to do this? You're going to do it right. So you're going to go, and you're going to form an LLC, and you're going to do all the right stuff, and you're going to start records, and blah, blah, blah, blah, which We helped them along with all this. Well, a few months into this, our garage in the back became the off-road shop central in the neighborhood. And my wife is like, They're out. They got to go. Well, this was the first time they lit the garage on fire.

[00:39:19.420] - Big Rich Klein

The first time?

[00:39:20.800] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. And so she's like, They got to go. They just can't stay here. And so they're still in high school at this point, right? So Justin was just graduating, and was getting ready to start ASU, and he was going to ASU to be a mechanical engineer. And so that summer goes by, whatever. He's getting ready to start school. Got to move the shop. So we moved the shop over to where my office is, because I've got a little shop out and back. I said, Okay, we'll move all this stuff there. You guys can exist there, but you're going to have to drive to work now, so you have to come to work. So this went on throughout the first year of college. Justin, he was staying at ASU and going to school. Brandon would get off work or get off school, and he would go work on stuff, and then Justin would come home on weekends and work on stuff. And they're doing stuff, whatever. And I'm helping them. I'm selling some parts, and selling some wheels and tires, and I set up some deals for wholesale deals some vendors and whatnot. So they're doing pretty good.

[00:40:35.280] - Bill Schueler

They're actually making a little bit of money doing this rhino thing. And we ended up building some really cool stuff, and it ends up getting into some of these magazines. I don't know if you remember the magazine Cartwielen magazine?

[00:40:48.620] - Big Rich Klein

Yes.

[00:40:49.560] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. The Merrifield Troy and Don Merrifield. Anyway, they thought this was really cool, and they took a bunch of pictures of stuff, put it in a bunch of our... They did some articles on our stuff. Well, then, you got to understand something. My wife throughout the entire our life, she insisted that her kids were never going to race anything. No racing. No racing. You can have quads, you can have motorcycles, you can have all this stuff, you can ride, blah, blah, blah. You're not racing. Too dangerous. And so everybody accepted that, right? We weren't racing. But the kids, we did a lot of Dunan. We went to the Dunes a lot, and they had quads. I had a quad, and we would go, God, we'd probably go two or three weekends every month during dune season, we were at the dunes. And they were good riders. They were good. And then we started taking the rhinos to the dunes with us, too. So that went crazy. Now people want paddle tires on their rhinos, so we're doing that. So My wife is looking through one of these magazines, and she sees an ad. And if I'm not mistaken, I think it was an ad for...

[00:42:09.220] - Bill Schueler

It might have been an ad for Elka Shox, I'm not sure, but it had a picture. Do you remember... You know Cory Sappington, right?

[00:42:14.120] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, yeah, I know Cory. Yes. Yeah.

[00:42:15.840] - Bill Schueler

So it's got a picture of Cory Sappington's Race Rhino in there. And like I said, he was always running Elka Shox. It might have been an ad for Elka Shox. So my wife's dumbing through here, and she's like, What? They're racing rhinos? I'm like, Yeah. She's like, Well, that's crazy. And I'm like, Well, yeah, they're doing it. It's turning into a big thing, or I think it's gunny anyway. She's like, Well, if these kids are going to be selling Rhino stuff, they need to get their name on a race car. Rich, I swear to God, that was the hall pass that started everything. In 20 minutes, I would be surprised Justin was in the back garage and literally had the frame cut off of the back of our Rhino, and was building into a race car. I mean, it was almost like somebody just inflated it with helium, and he was out there just, blah, blah, blah, blah, And he'd build a race car now. And so we built our first race, Rhino, and started racing. Our first race was actually the first sanctioned best in the desert race, which was a Parker 250. I think they called it back then, Parker 250.

[00:43:33.100] - Bill Schueler

And I think that was in, I want to say it was in '06. So we showed up, and it was five rhinos that showed up at that race. And we went and raced, and of course, we broke. Anyway, so, yeah, we showed up at this race, and my wife was... She was all on board, nervous nonetheless, but on board. And she's like, Well, it's a rhino. It only goes 29 miles an hour. How bad can it be, right? So we're out there racing. And I'll be honest with you, racing the rhinos was pretty frustrating. We raced for that whole season, and we finished a couple of races, and the kids were having a blast, but it was a struggle to try and keep those things together, they would either blow up or overheat, or the frames would break, or the front ends would break. Anyway, we broke a lot of shit. But in the meantime, they're still building all this stuff, and they're getting their names in magazines, and they're getting pictures in magazines, and there's stuff going around, and we're selling rhinos, and they're popping up at the dunes and everything else. At that time, we're The guys, I told them, I said, You guys are going to have to.

[00:44:48.200] - Bill Schueler

I said, This is going to be a real business, it looks like. I think it's going to be a real business. Justin had come home from his first semester, his second year college. He came home one day, and he set me and mom down and said, Hey, here's the deal. I can't keep doing this. I can't do this business thing and still go to college and do 100% at both places. We're like, Okay, well, you're an adult now, so you tell us. What do you want to do? He goes, I want to make the business grow. Well, mom was devastated because now he wants to quit College, which he did. But ultimately, we talked about it, and it's like, it is his decision. It's like, I don't want him to be going to College just to go to College. And if he's not going to get anything out of it, he even said, he's like, I don't want to have a fallback to be an engineer. I don't think I want to be an engineer. I don't like engineering. I'm two years in, and I hate it. And we're Okay, well, then it sounds like if we pay any more tuition, we're wasting money.

[00:46:04.700] - Bill Schueler

He goes, I think so. I'm like, All right, well, you want to stay in college and do business? No, I want to grow the business. I'm like, Okay, well, there you go. But you're going to have to do it right. Now we got to go buy a building. So we did.

[00:46:20.360] - Big Rich Klein

One step at a time.

[00:46:22.060] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, one step at a time. But we went out, we bought a warehouse condo building and overpaid for it because they were It was stupid money at the time. And took out a loan, and these guys, they serviced the loan and moved into this brand new building, or we were actually in the process of moving into this brand new building. That's when we got a call. We got this weird call. Justin was in the office, and I came in, and he's like, Daddy, I just had a really strange phone call. I'm like, Okay, well, who was it? He goes, It was Polaris. I'm like, Polaris? He goes, Yeah, some guy from Polaris called, and he wants to set up a meeting with us. I'm like, What did we do with them? We're not taking it. It's like, Are they going to sue us for something? What's going on here? He goes, No. He said that they have some new products on the horizon, and they want to discuss some opportunities. And they're out canvassing some other shops and so on, and they want to come and talk to us. And I'm like, Wow. Well, You better get this new building all up and running here pretty quick, because we are literally just moving into this building, right?

[00:47:36.660] - Bill Schueler

I said, You better make this place look presentable, then. You better get busy. So I set up an appointment, and sure enough, these two guys from Polaris showed up, and It was like dealing with the men in black, right? Like they were going to hold this little pen in front of your eyes and flash it, and you wouldn't have any memory of the meeting. It was so crazy. They came in and they basically told us that they were looking for companies to become what they referred to as aftermarket development partners for a new product line that they were getting ready to introduce. And then they made us sign all these papers, NDAs and all this other shit, and then they wanted to show us this new vehicle.

[00:48:21.820] - Big Rich Klein

The Razor S?

[00:48:23.000] - Bill Schueler

The new vehicle was the Razor, the original Razor 800. So this was in 2007, and they were ready to introduce this Razor, and they showed us pictures of it, and they had these videos and stuff, and we're like, holy crap, that's really, really cool, man. That thing is really cool. It looks little, but it's cool. Anyway, so they're like, Well, we'll get back to you guys. But here's what we're thinking, basically, is we know that this vehicle is going to be popular, and we want there to be an aftermarket network out there for this vehicle when it hits the market, basically. So they want people to already be talking about it when it comes out. Like, Okay. So they left. These guys left, and I looked at Justin and Brandon, and I'm like, Well, we'll never hear you. And lo and behold, about two weeks later, one of the guys, his name is Craig Scanland. Do you know Craig?

[00:49:22.880] - Big Rich Klein

Yes. That's what you do.

[00:49:24.360] - Bill Schueler

Craig Scanland calls. He goes, Hey, guys. That's Craig Scanland, Polarish Industries. It's like, Hey, Craig. Yeah, well, I just want to let you know that we didn't pick you guys. And we were like, Oh, well, I mean, okay. Can you tell us why? He was like, idiot. Why would you think I wouldn't even call you if I had to pick you guys. We wouldn't even call you guys back if we didn't pick you guys. We picked you guys. You're such an idiot. I'm like, Oh, God. You got to be shitting me.

[00:49:57.240] - Big Rich Klein

He was just messing with you.

[00:49:59.020] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, That's Craig. That's what he does. Anyway, so what that meant is that they were going to send us two of these vehicles prior to their release and say, Here, take these vehicles and do whatever it is that you can with these vehicles, and make them as cool as you possibly can, and take them everywhere you can possibly take them. The release date is such and such, and we're going to have a press debut out in the desert there in Arizona, and we want you guys to come to that. It's like, wow, okay, this is a lot. And so sure enough, here comes these two Razors, show up on our doorstep. And then, I don't know, maybe a week or so later, maybe two weeks, I don't know, we get another call from Craig. He goes, Hey, I need to talk to you guys about something. I was like, Okay, what's up? He goes, You guys are racing UTVs, right? I'm like, . He goes, You guys are racing a Yamaha? We're like, Yeah. He goes, Yeah, that's not going to work. I'm like, Okay, could you race one of these Razors in this series?

[00:51:04.340] - Bill Schueler

I'm like, Yeah. He goes, Okay, we're going to send you a third one, and you need to build it and make it race the next race.

[00:51:12.580] - Big Rich Klein

It's like, Okay. Nice.

[00:51:14.840] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. So now we're racing a Polaris, right? And so we don't even have it yet, but we're going to race, and then the race is in three weeks. So this car shows up, and we've got three weeks to turn it into a best in the desert legal race car, which at that time, nobody really even knew what that was because everything was evolving at the rate that it was. And so obviously, we were involved in a lot of the rulemaking and a lot of the evolution of that class, for sure. So we did. We raced that first race, and we actually finished. It was the Perump terrible town 250, I think it was. And I actually drove that car in that race. That was our first race car, our first race, Razor, and I actually drove that race. I think we finished fourth.

[00:52:07.540] - Big Rich Klein

But no breakage.

[00:52:09.220] - Bill Schueler

Well, we broke a belt, which was a nightmare at the time. That's typical. Yeah, it sure was. But we actually got it to the finish line and did okay. And it's like, wow, this thing has so much potential. It's not even funny. And had some guys from Polaris that came out to watch the race because this was That was literally the first desert race that a Razor had ever competed in. And so it was cool. It was cool. Everyone was looking at like, What is this thing? What is this? Where do I get one?

[00:52:46.660] - Big Rich Klein

At your Polaris dealer shortly.

[00:52:48.400] - Bill Schueler

At your Polaris dealer, exactly. And the rest of that's history because God knows everybody bought one. But, yeah, so that was pretty fun. And so that started Started the whole our racing career with Polaris that ended up going 16 years.

[00:53:09.040] - Big Rich Klein

Wow.

[00:53:10.060] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. So that was the beginning, our humble beginnings in racing.

[00:53:16.540] - Big Rich Klein

And what are some of the range? What racing organizations did you race in?

[00:53:23.800] - Bill Schueler

So we raced in Best in the Desert. We started out racing in Best in the... Well, initially, when we started the Rhino thing, we were racing in basically the Whiplash series here in Arizona. And we raced with Jay for a little while because he had races that were easy to get to for us. And so we raced out a little bit. And then Best in the Desert was the big game. And so we went and we raced Best in the Desert. We raced some Snore stuff. They have a couple of really fun races that brought... We always like to go to the races that brought the most competitors. Snore, for whatever reason. I always had good turnouts because they had cheap entry fees. And so we went to some snore races, but we really started focusing on best in the desert because at that point, they had determined that they were going to make the UTV an actual class. They're actually going to do this. And so we had to do a little bit of shopping and talking. You know Casey Foulkes, right?

[00:54:24.200] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, yeah.

[00:54:24.860] - Bill Schueler

He wasn't really big on the whole golf cart class, if you will. That's what we were at the time. And between Cory Sappington and a lot of influence from us and some other early on people, there was a lot of talks that went on to try and get that class to where it was actually a legitimate professional class.

[00:54:49.800] - Big Rich Klein

And you didn't have to carry golf clubs.

[00:54:52.380] - Bill Schueler

Exactly. We didn't have to carry golf clubs, right? You didn't have to fix your divots. But yeah, so we were instrumental in some of that. Where else do we live? It was a few years. We raced a few years of best of dinner before we went down to Race Mexico. And we went down to race Mexico because we didn't really have a big desire to do that. The wife wasn't really big on it, and Brandon, at the time,'s wife wasn't really big on it. And at one point, we finally got called on the carpet by Polaris and said, Hey, you know what? We're taking a little bit of crap from some guys who are racing in Mexico, said that you guys need to come race Mexico because that's where real racing happens type thing. And so you're getting called out. And so we're like, Well, okay, that means we got to go race Mexico. So we came up with a plan to build another car to race Mexico. And do you know Matt Parks?

[00:55:58.020] - Big Rich Klein

No, that name's not familiar.

[00:56:00.000] - Bill Schueler

So Matt Parks was a previous... He had just recently retired from Polaris, and he was a racing enthusiast, and he had actually built a Range r and raced it in the Henderson 400, or no, theexcuse me, the Baja 400, 500, a couple of years prior in a Polaris ranger, and actually finished a race. And so he was racing with Cory when Cory was doing stuff. It was not really class in score yet, but they were doing exhibition racing. Anyway, Matt Parks, we'd known him because he was actually a DSM for Polaris prior to that. And it's like, well, Matt is versed in Mexico. He's been down in Baja all his life, and raced in Baja, and this said he raced class 10 cars, and so on and so forth. And he was all jacked up about this whole Polaris thing. And well, why don't we do this? Why don't we build another car, and we'll let Matt Parks be the driver of record and race the stuff down in Mexico, and then Brandon will do the best in the desert stuff in his car up here, and we'll have basically field two cars, but we'll cover both series.

[00:57:10.560] - Bill Schueler

And so that's what we ended up doing. And so we set aside a little funding thing for the Mexico part, and Matt put together the crew to do that. But then we came down with our chase trucks and our race car, and we prepped the car and all that stuff. And he just basically drove it, and managed the team down there, because he knew Mexico better than we did. And we did that for two years and won the Championship the two first year who went down there. So like I said, they called us on the carpet and we said, Okay, we'll come down, and then we beat everybody, which was cool. It was really cool because we had no idea what we were doing, and we did really well. And also we realized at that point, we really like racing in Mexico. And so it's like, well, shit, we're going to do that. And so that was the plan moving forward. And unfortunately, Matt had In an incident, one of his kids got injured really bad, and he actually ended up having to bow out, came to us before one of the races and says, Guys, I'm...

[00:58:11.240] - Bill Schueler

I mean, he had tears in his eyes. I can't do this anymore. And then because of this problem, his son had a major head injury. And he says, I have to take care of my family. I'm like, Of course. Got it. Yeah, obviously. So at that point, it's like, well, Brandon, guess what? You're going down to Race Mexico. Because we were already signed up, right? We're paid. We're in. So we go down, we raced Mexico, and Brandon did really good down there, too. And so now Brandon was racing Best in Desert and SCOR, and we pretty much, at that point, gave up racing everything else. We did throw our hat in the ring at King of the Hammers a few times. We did do that, but we were building desert race cars, and unfortunately, the desert race cars weren't really rock racing cars. Although we did okay. We did okay. We raced King of the Hammers three years in a row, and we took third, then we took second, and then we won it. On the first year, we raced They came out with the Razor S, and we actually went down and we won it.

[00:59:20.750] - Bill Schueler

But that was a blast. That was amazing. In a virtually a stock car. The King of the Hammers thing was fun because It's like, the first year we went down there, Rich, when we went to the driver's meeting, you know Dave, right? I mean, you know Dave really well.

[00:59:38.490] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, yes.

[00:59:39.620] - Bill Schueler

It's like, Yeah, you guys are in the golf cars. First of all, none of you guys are going to finish. So just make sure that you guys get your stuff off the course before the real race cars come out, basically. That's what he's saying. We're like, God, that hurts a little bit. So we went out and we finished. But despite everything. And it was not easy. It was hard. And everybody knows, King of the Hammers is the hardest thing to do. There's no doubt about it. But yeah, so we did that a few years, and it was just never really in our wheelhouse because with the number of races that we were doing between Beth and Desert and SCOR, it meant that we would have to build a whole other race car just to go and do one race every year. And it just really was prohibitive, financially and time-wise and everything else. So when they came out with the 4C900, basically, that was their flagship at the time, Polaris was. That's when Craig Scanlin and I came up with an idea to take a completely stock car, as stock as it could be, to still be legal, and race in thebasically in the sportsman class, in a stock raiser.

[01:01:03.980] - Bill Schueler

And so we got a stock raiser, and we basically did a legal cage and a fuel cell, and the very, very minimum that we had to do to make it legal. And then me and Craig went and raced this car. And we ended up racing one race, and we won the sportsman class. And so Craig was like, Well, shit, now we got to race the whole season. So we raced that whole season in the sportsman class, in a stock car, and we I won the sportsman class and basically finished every race. That was a marketing thing for Polaris to say, Hey, this is how tough these cars are. You can actually do this in a stock car. Granted, that car was beat to crap after every race, but we replaced a lot of parts. But it did it. It did it, right? It finished, and it did well. So at that point, then Craig was hooked. Now, he's our liaison with Polaris, and really, our Polaris, he's our boss, right? And now he wants to race. He wants to race pro. And he's like, Bill, we're going to race pro next year. I said, I can't race pro.

[01:02:11.420] - Bill Schueler

I can't do it. I've got this other... I mean, we've got These other two cars, we're racing a Mexico car, we're racing a best of desert car, and I'm doing all the logistics for all the races and stuff. I really can't be in the race car. I really need to be doing that. And so we got another co- driver to race with Craig, And then Craig goes pro for a couple of years, and we've built another car for him. So I think, I don't know how many race cars we built. We had to have built probably 12 or 14 race cars over the period of 16 years, something like that, that we raced. It was crazy. There for a while, it was nothing but building a race cars. We actually closed the shop down and just went specifically racing. So up until 2023.

[01:03:01.300] - Big Rich Klein

And what happened in '23 that made you- Basically, we were racing in 2023, and basically, Polaris, when they came around to re-up and everything.

[01:03:16.990] - Bill Schueler

They changed their gears, and they had some new internal people, and they wanted to do things different. And they basically backed off on any funding that they were doing for to your teams. And basically, they made it to where it wasn't really affordable for us. We're not going to go dig in our pocket and to do what the level of racing that we were going to do was just too expensive. And basically, they're saying, Hey, we're not going to do the funding. We're going to do something different. As you know, now they have this factory Polaris team, which is completely funded and owned by Polaris, basically. I mean, it's privately owned, but it's managed and sponsored and everything through Polaris, factory Polaris deal. So that's what they wanted to do. That's the direction that they wanted to go, and they wanted to trim back on their privateer stuff.

[01:04:14.690] - Big Rich Klein

And that's when they bought Fourwheel Parts, wasn't it?

[01:04:19.220] - Bill Schueler

Well, they had already owned four wheel parts at that time. So Craig was actually the CEO of four wheel parts at that time. And Craig is still involved in the racing end of it, too, because they formed another entity, which is the factory racing entity. And Craig's involved with that. And then they have engineers at Polaris that are involved in that, and they've done really well with it. Those cars are pretty impressive. But yeah, so it was disappointing. But at the same time, Brandon's got two boys in school now, and he's married and has a house, and whatnot. And it's like, I think his thought was, it's like, it Maybe it is time for me to hang up my helmet and get back to doing what I'm going to be doing, which at that point, they basically turned the shop back on 100 % and flipped the switch. And God, they're kicking ass now.

[01:05:13.800] - Big Rich Klein

They're doing so good. So now it's basically aftermarket parts, and for just Polaris, or are they- No, no.

[01:05:22.340] - Bill Schueler

All UTV is pretty much. Pretty much all UTV. And they do some other stuff, too. But it's primarily UTV. I mean, I would say it's It's exclusively UTV. But I mean, if somebody comes in and they want to buy lights for their truck, I mean, sure, we'll sell them, or they want to buy wheels or tires, or whatever. I mean, we've got outlets for a lot of different parts and accessories, and a lot of vendors that we're doing really, really well with. We sell a ton of method stuff, and we sell a ton of rugged, and we sell KC highlights and Baha Designs. Our line list is pretty big now.

[01:05:56.720] - Big Rich Klein

And most of those were sponsors or marketing partners at one point, right?

[01:06:01.080] - Bill Schueler

A lot of them were sponsors of ours, yes. We've kept very good. We've really stayed close to the people that sponsored us. We had some long term sponsors. Casey Highlights was a 10 year sponsor. Bf Goodrich was a 10 year sponsor. We did well with all the sponsors, and they all treated us really, really well. We couldn't have done everything that we did without them.

[01:06:27.700] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[01:06:30.160] - Bill Schueler

As you know, from racing, it's like, that's part of the whole deal, man. If you don't have good support behind you, you're not going to succeed.

[01:06:38.000] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. It's like, how do you become a millionaire in racing? You start with two.

[01:06:41.820] - Bill Schueler

Start with two, exactly.

[01:06:45.940] - Big Rich Klein

That is the fact. So then JaggedX is still a viable company. Brandon's running that, and you guys are going to be out at Dirt Expo here in December fifth through the seventh in Scottsdale.

[01:07:06.480] - Bill Schueler

Yes, exactly. We got a booth out there, and we'll have a couple of trick cars out there. The new hot button for us right now is the Polaris Expedition. We are building the coolest Polaris expeditions that you can imagine. There's no end to what people are doing with these cars.

[01:07:28.380] - Big Rich Klein

Is that the one with the full cab and AC and all that?

[01:07:32.060] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, they call it a ADV. Yeah, it's got air conditioning heating.

[01:07:36.340] - Big Rich Klein

Looks like a little bus.

[01:07:38.100] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, power windows and very comfortable seats and a capable motor. They're fun. Matter of fact, that's what I drive now. I don't even have a Razor anymore. I sold my last Razor this last year, and now I'm driving an Expedition. I've got an Expedition, and I've got a Ranger. I actually have two Rangers. But yeah, I've got a Ranger North Star and an Expedition North Star.

[01:08:02.260] - Big Rich Klein

I always liked that. I think it was the Commander?

[01:08:07.180] - Bill Schueler

The Commander is a Can-Am.

[01:08:09.260] - Big Rich Klein

No, it's not the Commander then. It was...

[01:08:12.100] - Bill Schueler

They have a General.

[01:08:13.540] - Big Rich Klein

The General, and that's the one that had the race suspension but looked like a ranger?

[01:08:17.880] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, it was a tweener, if you will. It was sportier than a ranger, but not quite a raser. Still had a little more utility. We built a couple of those. Really nice, too. Built one of those on 37-inch tires with portals and cool stuff.

[01:08:36.340] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[01:08:37.320] - Bill Schueler

Cool stuff. But there's just no limit to what they're doing now. There's no limit to what they're doing.

[01:08:41.850] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, especially now with this. I saw one at I was in Sacramento last year, the expedition with the... And I was like, holy, I couldn't believe.

[01:08:53.400] - Bill Schueler

It's insane. I mean, they're doing full leather interiors and just sea decking on the doors and the floors and huge stereo systems and GPS, and they're doing all Switch Pro electronics. It's just nuts, man. I think they got one guy at the shop that does almost exclusively wiring anymore. He's just constantly just wiring stuff. They're putting so many different things in these cars. It's like, well, I want... They're doing air-condition seats, they're doing heated seats. I mean, it just boggles my mind.

[01:09:33.560] - Big Rich Klein

But that's great.

[01:09:36.320] - Bill Schueler

Yeah. No, it is. When they came out, it's like, oh, this is a fad. The UTV is a fad. I can remember that. Oh, God. Yeah. I mean, in rock crawling circles, I'd come out and I would bring my Razor out to some of the rock crawl events and trips, and runs, and stuff people would do. And they're like, Hey, you guys need golf cards, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. There's some hard core, Jeep only guys, and they all have Razors now. Or some UTV.

[01:10:09.600] - Big Rich Klein

True. Very true.

[01:10:10.990] - Bill Schueler

Never, you never say never, Rich. You just never say never.

[01:10:17.380] - Big Rich Klein

I just went stock Jeep.

[01:10:19.800] - Bill Schueler

Yeah, I love my Jeep. I've got a Gladiator, and I love it. Absolutely love it. There's things that you can do with that that you just still can't do with a UTB and vice versa. If you want the perfect off-road vehicle, well, so does everybody. You can't have it. There's no such thing. Very true. There's no such thing. If you want the perfect off-road vehicle, then make more money because you're going to have to buy a bunch.

[01:10:52.040] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, so true.

[01:10:54.020] - Bill Schueler

You got to buy more than one. So that's for sure.

[01:10:57.520] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's a pretty good segue. I want to Bill, thank you so much for sharing your story.

[01:11:05.000] - Bill Schueler

Absolutely. It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. Like I said, it's been a fun ride. We've had a lot of good times. I tell you what, it's been good for my family. We've bonded over a lot of stuff and done a lot of off-road trips and been some cool places. I've met so many cool people in the off-road industry over the years that I really call my friends. It's been a good thing.

[01:11:33.720] - Big Rich Klein

Yes. Off-road is that way, and it doesn't matter if you're a buggy nut, if you're in sand cars or you're desert racing, rally. It really doesn't matter. The off-road community is just its family.

[01:11:52.180] - Bill Schueler

It is. It's outstanding. It's funny. You did the interview with Shannon Campbell, and I listened to that, and I'm like, it is He is so Shannon, and I've known him for so many years. I remember going out to Florence Junction out there and going out on a Saturday night and just meeting up with Shannon and his brother and all the other guys from We were in Gilbert and stuff and just going out and running woodpecker wash and running Ajax mine and all the crazy stuff we did out there and had some of the best times ever out there with the old Jeep, just beating it into the rocks and just It's just fun stuff. Just fun stuff.

[01:12:32.840] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. In fact, Shannon says it's time. He wants to get back out doing more of that.

[01:12:38.860] - Bill Schueler

Yes. I've done some trail rides with Shannon, and that is always fun. It is always fun for sure. I actually want to get up and see his place up north.. Yeah. One of these days I'm going to buzz up there and check out his shop.

[01:12:54.780] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent.

[01:12:55.290] - Bill Schueler

But yeah, it's good stuff. All right. I can't thank you Well, thank you for having me on, man. I really appreciate it. And I hope that somebody out there listens and actually just says, hey, that's the cool story.

[01:13:08.740] - Big Rich Klein

They will. They will. And remember, Jagged X, man. If you- Jagged X. Yeah. Get out there and take a look at what they're doing.

[01:13:16.560] - Bill Schueler

Some really cool stuff. Absolutely. Absolutely. We'll see you at the Expo in December. And yeah, stop by and say hi, and we'll show you all our wares. And if we can help you do anything, man, we're up for just about anything.

[01:13:30.000] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. All right, Bill, you take care and say hello to the family for me.

[01:13:34.560] - Bill Schueler

Thank you, Rich. You as well.

[01:13:35.940] - Big Rich Klein

All right. You take care. Bye. Bye. Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.