West Virginia State Senator Mark R Maynard talks life, politics and a lifetime in off-road on Episode 305

Mark shares growing up at his family’s Union 76 service station, early Jeeping and Baja Bug adventures, club rides every Sunday, and a childhood shaped by mud, mountains, and motors.

State Senator Maynard has a storied history in off-road, including wrenching at NHRA, Gravelrama memories and fighting for expanding OHV opportunities. Fighting the good fight in the state of West Virginia, Mark supports private parks, national advocacy and lessons learned everywhere being shared with all.

Transcript

[00:00:05.100] 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.460] 

Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two, Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread victoriously.

[00:01:12.180] - Big Rich Klein

On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I'll be talking about life, politics, and off-road with West Virginia Senator Mark R. Maynard. All right, Mark Maynard. So good to have you on the podcast.

[00:01:27.650] - Big Rich Klein

I'm looking forward to this. We first met a couple of years ago at the ORMHOF Gala, and we had some conversations about off-road and legislation. And it's good to have you on the podcast.

[00:01:40.660] - Mark R Maynard

It's my pleasure, Rich. I'm looking forward to this.

[00:01:43.840] - Big Rich Klein

So the first question Where were you born and raised?

[00:01:47.720] - Mark R Maynard

Well, I was born in Huntington, West Virginia. That's the big city near me, a population of about 50,000. And my mom and dad lived and still live south of there, about a half hour, a little south of a town called Wayne. It's got a population of about 2,000. My mom and dad operated a Union 76 service station at the time. We still have the business, but we no longer sell gas there. I grew up as a kid at this two-pump full-service gas station that my dad usually had one employee and did service work and had a car lot, salvage yard, and a towing service, and anything automotive, they did it.

[00:02:33.040] - Big Rich Klein

I would imagine that automobiles was in your blood from early on. I can remember working while in high school at a full-service Chevron station in the San Francisco Bay Area. Cars would come in, wash the windshield, of course, put the fuel in for the people, check the air pressure, ask them if they wanted to check the oil and all that stuff. It was a different What time?

[00:03:01.380] - Mark R Maynard

It was. It was the good old days that had the little rubber hose that strung out next to the island and had a little bell inside that would ring when somebody would pull across the next to the pump island.

[00:03:14.140] - Big Rich Klein

You had that ding, ding? Yeah. I know it well. I would imagine that you got started working there pretty early.

[00:03:24.780] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, I grew up, I was doing everything. My dad would let me on cars and progressed and turned wrenches. It was like a manager of his used car lot. I would detail them and get them ready to sell. But before that, though, the drive of the parking lot in the evenings, proved to be a great place for me to ride my big wheel. There you go. So I had a lot of fun.

[00:03:55.080] - Big Rich Klein

What services did he do? Was he always a car guy?

[00:04:01.380] - Mark R Maynard

He has always been a car guy. He talks about engine swaps he was doing when he was 12 years old and his dad helping him along. He grew up in a... His grandparents had a grocery store that his parents took over, and he was in the same location but had an offshoot of automotive business and had a salvage yard and a car lot and worked on people's cars. That was at a Esso They sold Esso Gas at the grocery store. So he had an early interest in these always loved cars.

[00:04:41.520] - Big Rich Klein

And what services did he do at the Gas station?

[00:04:46.800] - Mark R Maynard

Everything. I mean, from engine rebuilds, transmission rebuilds. He's still an ace on standard shift transmissions to this day. You know, engine swaps, whatever needed to be done, he wouldn't turn anybody down.

[00:05:02.240] - Big Rich Klein

And I've been to West Virginia. It's mountainous, and it seems like there's a lot of off-road. Was that true as a child for you?

[00:05:17.660] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, and even for him, his first Jeep was back in the '40s, and he did deliver groceries to a lot of people that didn't have cars back then for his grandma his grocery store. And he told me the other day it had a top on it, and he took the top off, and he never put it back on, delivered groceries in that spring, summer, winter, and fall. And so he's been a jeeper all of his life as well.

[00:05:46.800] - Big Rich Klein

Wintering topless.

[00:05:49.240] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah.

[00:05:51.740] - Big Rich Klein

And knowing how the weather gets there, you guys are having quite the storm right now. That must have been a cold job.

[00:05:59.960] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, it's funny. He had never told me that story until this other day, and I've got an '80 Model CJ5 that I bought in '99. I bought it in the summertime and the top was off and it's all piled in the back. And you know how many rods and brackets and everything those tops had And so I put it all together. It took me like 45 minutes. Put it all on, got it on, drove it one time with the top on, and I took it off in '99, and it's never been back on. I just park it in the shed and drive it like a motorcycle, almost. And just a bikini top. So I've had on it since '99.

[00:06:35.560] - Big Rich Klein

We've got a 2000 TJ. It's all stock. I mean, it's got 30-inch tires on it, so a little bit bigger tire, but it's got the hard top, and we were given a soft top or a Bimini top with it. But we've not put that on yet because we... Well, we like the AC.

[00:06:58.260] - Mark R Maynard

Oh, yeah, that is true.

[00:07:01.720] - Big Rich Klein

So your dad, I understand that did not only automotive repair, but had a parts business going out of there, too, off-road, and maybe some racing?

[00:07:13.740] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, he sold four-wheel drive accessories and installed them. He was a Jackman wheel distributor back in the day, and I was glad. I think at the Ormhoff dinner back in 2024, Mr. Jackman was there, and it was really interesting to me to get to see his brand brought back. I got my picture taken with Mr. Jackman. When I was a kid, I had a Jackman wheels sticker on the headboard of my bed, and so it was really special. I've got a VW Baha bug with Jackman wheels on now. But yeah, he sold accessories, installed them, and he started off-roading. He started out with a VW bug that he'd built from a new beetle and cut it up and made his own Baha bug out of it. He heard about a group going riding, a little professional group had developed here. So he started joining now. Keep in mind, all these were Jeeps and Broncos and Blazers. So he would take this beetle and had a set of wide all-terrain tires on the back. And he would take that beetle, and when it came up on an obstacle, he would He was telling me he would hit it wide open in that little beetle because it'd take the abuse, and he would power downshift it when it would start running out of power.

[00:08:39.400] - Mark R Maynard

And he would make it through obstacles that the jeeps and stuff couldn't make it through, mainly mud here back then And so he said some of the members in the club would rib somebody if they couldn't make it when dad would make it through in that little beetle that he affectionately called Thunder Chicken. And they would actually sometimes have torn their Jeeps up trying to get through something.

[00:09:03.140] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Well, the Volkswagen was designed for those terrible roads in the '30s in Europe. So that's those snow and mud and rutded and everything. And so you put them out, and we consider our roads bad, but Europe in the '30s, off road was a way life. So they're really good cars off road.

[00:09:35.240] - Mark R Maynard

He had to step up his game, though, when the, it's either 1100 or 1200, is what they used to call them back in the day, came out, and he just couldn't outdo them. So he bought a '71 Blazer that he put 456 gears in with a positive traction in the rear and a true track in the front and ended up with like 35 gumbos on it in the late '70s. Gumbo mudders, probably some of your listeners have never heard of the tire, but it was a cutting-edge mud terrain tire back in the '70s. That's what we spent every Sunday in. The club had an in-person meeting every Friday night and a trail ride every Sunday for four years of my life. Now, I can't get out six times a year, hardly to ride now. But can you imagine riding 52 times per year.

[00:10:31.280] - Big Rich Klein

I can because I think I used to do that until I made off road a profession.

[00:10:40.180] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah.

[00:10:40.700] - Big Rich Klein

As soon as you take something that you really enjoy as a hobby and make it a profession, it changes things.

[00:10:49.960] - Mark R Maynard

I know the feeling.

[00:10:51.280] - Big Rich Klein

But I wouldn't change it for anything.

[00:10:55.920] - Mark R Maynard

So... Go ahead. Well, I want to tell you about a progression that So this club, it was called the Original Ridgerunners. You can look it up on Facebook. I've got a little page of some of the old wheeling pictures and the old Jeeps and Broncos. But they started attending an event in Cincinnati Ohio that was put on by the IOK, Four Road Drive Club, and it's called Gravelrama. Oh, yeah. And so as a club, they would attend that. Well, one of their club members actually competed there, and he stepped up to the plate and bought a brand new, special order, a brand new 1978 Chevy Stepside. And he had a four-wheel drive center, and he was going to let this truck be his mascot for his four-wheel drive center. Well, times took a turn for the worse, and my dad ended up buying the truck in 1980, so it was two years old. This truck had been driven straight from the dealer to the shop and the fluid was rained out of while it was still warm. It had a 13. 5 to 1, 125 over, 454 with a 5,500 stall, Dana 60 rear, 538 gear.

[00:12:12.800] - Mark R Maynard

I mean, it was all-out sand rag, a race truck. My dad started campaigning it in 1980, and I was eight years old, so I grew up around sandrag racing and Jeep, Jeeps as a kid. That was a progression of his four-wheel days, and he still has a truck to this day. He's 87 years old. It's not been fired up in a while, but it's a beautiful truck. It's probably one of the lowest mile square body trucks out there. It has 11 miles still on the odometer with the original red paint, but it's had lots of upgrades done to it, of course. But my plans are on my agenda is to get that thing to where it's operating, to where we can least it up and take it to car shows on a car hauler.

[00:13:03.420] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. 11 miles. So all the miles on it were for racing then?

[00:13:12.420] - Mark R Maynard

I figure the 11 miles was put on it, driving it from the new car dealer to the shop, because I know the distance. And a lot of times cars will have a few miles on them, even at the dealer. And then, of course, the speed owner was unhooked, but it's not been on the street since 1978. Wow.

[00:13:30.540] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. I see. Okay. Yeah. Because that would be the only other way is disconnect the odometer.

[00:13:36.840] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah.

[00:13:38.420] - Big Rich Klein

And so growing up in Wayne, town of 2000, you What was school like? I would imagine you knew everybody in town.

[00:13:51.260] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, it was a small community. I went to Wayne Elementary, Wayne Middle School, and Wayne High School, graduated from there in 1990. And cars were important part of my life. My first car was a 1982 Transam factory four speed that was beat up when I got it. I got it painted and fixed it all up and drove it and sold it and took my money and just reinvested in buying another car. But I didn't get my first off-road rig until I was probably 20 years old. I was attending Marshall University I got a '78 Bronco, and it had Q78 '15. That's probably another size tire that your listeners maybe have ever heard of, but it had Grand Prix Q78 '15s. I remember on the side of the tire, it said, for use on seven-inch rims, and they were on 10s, but they looked really good on those 10s. It had about four inches of lift, and I did local rides in it, and then fixed it up, sold it, made a little money, and ended up with a '79 Bronco. And it graded until I had 38 gumbo motors on it. And I still have that Bronco today, but it doesn't...

[00:15:11.600] - Mark R Maynard

It's not looking too good. It's sat out its entire life, but I still have very fond memories of it.

[00:15:18.480] - Big Rich Klein

That's amazing that you still have cars from back then.

[00:15:21.800] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:22.680] - Big Rich Klein

Most of us wish we had kept some of the cars that we've had.

[00:15:26.920] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, but there's a progression there that I'll finish with Bronco. I was on this trail ride, and there was an XJ in front of me with 34 LTBs, and the rear diff was welded up. And we're going through this real rocky section. And keep in mind, I had 38 Gumbos, and they were brand new. But I had 350 gears, front and rear, and open diffs, front and rear. But usually, that's all I needed to outdo anybody I was with. But that little XJ was in front of me, made it through, no problem. It was Rich and Civil Maynor driving it. I abused my Bronco to try to get through this area. I'm lucky I didn't break an actual, but I just could not get through this rocky section. So they back down, took that XJ with 34s, hooked onto me, pulled me through. And that day, I started looking for a Jeep. I really didn't know what I was looking for. But I'm a V8 guy, so I ended up with a '98 ZJ, which is a Grand Cherokee last year, that the 5. 9 in it. And so I put a lunch box locker in the front, 35s, 6 inches of lift, and rebuilt a factory pause traction unit in the back, which I should have just welded it up.

[00:16:42.220] - Mark R Maynard

But I still have it to this day, and it's providing me a lot of smiles.

[00:16:47.440] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. Excellent. So back to the school days, what student were you? Were you a good student, or were you one of those that was looking out the window waiting to get outdoors and play?

[00:17:01.340] - Mark R Maynard

I was a good student. I made the honor roll, but I didn't apply myself like I should have, like most. But I was thinking about riding my three-wheeler. I went to a phase there where I loved my three wheelers. I started out with a 79 110, then I got a 200 S Honda, then a 200 X, which was one of my favorites, Kickstart manual clutch, and ended up with a 85 ATC 250 R, which I still have that one, too. Wow. Back when I was in school, I would think about riding my three-wheeler.

[00:17:38.400] - Big Rich Klein

You got a little museum going.

[00:17:40.900] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, I've been lucky. I was able to hang on to some of it, back when it wasn't really worth much.

[00:17:48.620] - Big Rich Klein

Did you play sports or any extracurricular activities, band or anything like that?

[00:17:55.760] - Mark R Maynard

I played baseball in elementary school, and in middle school, I played one year of basketball. But I mean, ball sports, I like to be athletic, and I love extreme sports and stuff, but ball sports just aren't my thing. I've always been a motor sports guy. I mean, if it had wheels on it and an engine in it, then I liked it.

[00:18:17.200] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So you said your dad dragged raced. Was it like a NHRA type racing, or was it more street racing or local drag strip type stuff?

[00:18:30.000] - Mark R Maynard

Well, like most drag racers, he started out on the street, and he had a '57 Chevy that had a dual four Corvette engine that he put a four-speed in, and he had a Dana 44 rear differential out of a Kaiser with a 427 gear and a positive traction. He's king of the street. But then he went to the drag strip and drag raced a lot and has tons of trophies, drag racing. Then the local drag strip shut down about 1976. The name of it was Riverside, and that was the first drag trip I went to. I saw my first funny car there, and I've loved funny cars all my life. I'll fast forward to a little another chapter of my life. Sure. In 2006, I've always loved NHRA Drag Racing. I've attended races, and I was watching on TV TV, and I was a fan of Jim Head's back in the '80s, like 1983, when we used to watch it on TV. There was a channel on the Nashville Network. It was called American Sports Cavalcade. It was like a six-month delay drag race, and that's all I could get back then. I was watching the races in 2006, and I saw Jim Head still out there.

[00:19:50.560] - Mark R Maynard

I'm like, My gosh. I thought, I want to work for him. Back then, it wasn't as easy on the internet tracking somebody down, but I found somebody worked for him. His personal phone number at home, I was like, I'm trying to get a hold of Jim Head. He's like, We'll call this number tomorrow. I called Jim. He said, Send me a resume. I think he'd call me up and said, How do you turn a bolt to loosen it? I said, Well, to the left, unless it's left-hand threads. I didn't hear anything from him for about a month and a half. And then he called me back and said, You want to fly to Atlanta the day after tomorrow? I said, Yes. We didn't talk about anything. He said, Be at the airport in Columbus, such and such time. So I flew down. We went Atlanta '06, my first race. I was trained to do silner heads, and I worked for Jim for five years straight. And it was one of the most special chapters of my life, being around Dom Prodome and Connie Kaleta, and Shirley Mall Downey, and all of them in the staging Lans.

[00:20:53.120] - Mark R Maynard

It was just a really, really special time for me. I just Was a little bit too busy and just decided to retire in 2010. Came back in '14. Now, keep in mind, I ran for the Senate in 2008, but unsuccessful. And then in 2014, I ran again. And a gentleman by the name of John Wojek from Cleveland that I had met for my days of racing says, Hey, will you help me on my nitrofunding car at Redding and Vegas in Pamona? Now, keep in mind, this was right during campaign season, but I just couldn't turn down going to Vegas and Pamona to work on a night trip money car. So I said, Sure. So I flew back on the red eye from Vegas and campaigned one last day on Monday. An election day was Tuesday. I won. And then when we went to Pomona, I was Senator Elect doing the right-hand side of the money car.

[00:21:58.840] - Big Rich Klein

That's pretty awesome. That's pretty awesome. So through high school, what would you consider your favorite class or subject?

[00:22:08.390] - Mark R Maynard

Art. Art. Perfect. Yeah.

[00:22:12.080] - Big Rich Klein

And when you went to extended education, I believe you went to Marshall University, I read?

[00:22:22.260] - Mark R Maynard

I did, yeah. I graduated with two bachelor degrees, one in business management, one in marketing. Growing up in the family business, I wanted to learn more and I enjoyed it. I left my art career behind. After high school, I had one drawing class in college, but I've done some custom paint jobs, and I still enjoy it, but just don't get to spend much time on it now. Okay.

[00:22:48.400] - Big Rich Klein

What did you do for a career truly to make your money until you got into politics?

[00:22:57.640] - Mark R Maynard

I helped in the family family business. My dad continued to have a towing service car lot. We stopped selling gas in the '80s. I bought and sold cars myself and just worked in the family business. Then in 2000, my mom and dad retired and I took the family business over. I'm still operating it today, but I don't have the time. I did have to run it, but I still love it. It's still part of my life.

[00:23:32.760] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Politics can be consuming.

[00:23:35.820] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:38.000] - Big Rich Klein

And what made you to decide to run for a political office? Where What office did you first hold?

[00:23:47.900] - Mark R Maynard

Well, my grandfather, my dad's dad, was big into politics. And dad said he attended all the meetings and ran for office. But My dad never was really interested, but my mom was always interested. In her family. Her brother was a state executive committee member, I think, county chairman one time. It's a funny story. I'd be at the shop and I'd see my mom backing down the driveway in her gold '97 Lincoln, which in this, this was like 2004. She'd be cleaned up. It'd be like 5: 30. I would say, Mom, where are you going? She's like, I'm going to the Wayne County Republican Executive Committee meeting. I was like, Next time, let me know, and I'd like to go with you. So a month later, I'd see her back in our driveway. I remember it, and I'd go say, Mom, where are you going? She's like, I'm going to the Wayne County Republican Executive. I was like, Mom, let me know next time, and I'll be cleaned up, and I'll go with you. So 2004, after the presidential election, I happened to remember it and went with her and started attending and got appointed to the chairmanship of the Wayne County Republic Executive Committee.

[00:25:00.700] - Mark R Maynard

So for 10 years, I kept the committee meeting every month. And actually back up to 2008, I was the ballot commission for the county of Wayne, and I was the Republican version, and the Democrat was there. When the county commission would decide the ballot location, they would draw numbers out of a hat. So ballot position is pretty important. And so it was a random draw. And me and my Democrat counterpart, Helen Matthews, who since passed away, was there for every drawing. And we got down to Senate district 6. So part of the chairman's job was to find candidates to run for office. It was a struggle back then. I didn't even attempt to look for the Senate because my district was four... Let's see, it was four counties' big. I just figured there would be a candidate from the other three counties, so I didn't even look. Got down on the ballot and it said for the Republican line, it says candidate did not file. I'm like, Oh, my gosh. There was nobody filed to run against the incumbent in his party. I talked to the county chairman. I was like, I don't want to see this guy get a free ride.

[00:26:23.560] - Mark R Maynard

And so the state party chairman appointed me to the ballot. I wasn't on the primary because it was already in place. But I was on the general ballot. I ran. I didn't spend an insane amount of money or an insane amount of time, and I really enjoyed it. I thought to myself, someday I would like to run again. So I watched races come and go. And in 2014, January, the State Party chairman, which was a different one at this time, met with me and encouraged me to run against a 32-year incumbent, longest-serving state senator in the history of West Virginia. And so I said, Okay, I'll do it. And I couldn't get any support, any endorsements, because this guy was a powerhouse. But I won by... It was 389 votes to start with and end up after they were canvassed. It was a little bit more, but anyway. So that was 2014. I ran for re-election in 2018 and one, '22. Now for 2026, I'm up for re-election again, and I feel like I've still got more work to do. So I filed a week and a half ago.

[00:27:43.400] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. And still running the family business?

[00:27:49.980] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah.

[00:27:50.620] - Big Rich Klein

And- But- Go ahead.

[00:27:53.000] - Mark R Maynard

Well, not as intense as it was. I have a triple-A towing service, and that's hard to manage from the capital. But my parents still help me, and I've got a couple of drivers, and so I've still got my used car a lot and still involved.

[00:28:14.600] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. When you were at Ormhoff, the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame Gala, was that the year that we recognized the lady from Gravel-Rama?

[00:28:30.960] - Mark R Maynard

You know what? I was not there that year, but I knew Sugarfields well. She was a friend of my parents, and she was a big part of off-roading, and she's got many accolades that I was really glad to hear. That was an election year, if I'm not mistaken, and I just wasn't able to be there.

[00:28:53.640] - Big Rich Klein

I know that you attended the one in 2024. Have you attended other Armhof Callas?

[00:29:01.980] - Mark R Maynard

Yes, I think I've been to three total, and it's always just such an honor to be there with the heroes that I read about in Off Road and Peterson Fourwheel and Off Road magazine. Back in the day, I sat at the table one year with Bob Ham. Are you familiar with him? Yes. That was a great experience, and he was an inspiration to me to work on legislation. California gets a bad name, but their structure for their SVRAs and their Off-Road Motor Vehicle Commission is really a great thing. I'm actually trying to get things like that done in West Virginia through legislation.

[00:29:43.160] - Big Rich Klein

I would agree that the OHV Commission and the park system works well, especially if we can keep the governor's hand... How do I put this? Keep the governor's hands out of the pot.

[00:30:01.660] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, I get it. If you get the wrong people in these positions, then it goes the opposite direction. I've actually fought, done some call-ins for Pismo Beach or Oceano Dunes, and I had never visited at the time, but it was on my bucket list. I wanted to do what I could do to save it so at least someday I could visit. Since then, I visited. Pismo Beach is probably my favorite town in the world, almost. It's such a cute little town. I've been through Ocatillo Wells and ridden on some trails in the San Bernardino National Forest. Probably been to some other places, too. But been to the Dunes. Glamis? Dumont. Okay, Dumont, yes. But I've been through Glamis. I've never got to ride Glamis. But one time I was at a board meeting for the Blue Ribbon Coalition in Phoenix, and I made my flight out of LAX and drove so I could drive through Glamis. But it was in the middle summer, so there was like nobody there. But I can at least say I've been there.

[00:31:09.260] - Big Rich Klein

It's a great place. We get there at least once a year with the Rebell Rally, and I really enjoy driving it, especially in the RAPTOR pickup truck that I have. It's a fun ride out there.

[00:31:25.060] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, I've heard of the Rebell Rally. It sounds like a really cool event.

[00:31:28.620] - Big Rich Klein

It is. It really is. So let's talk a little bit about your work with off-road and what you're doing, what you guys have done in West Virginia, and what plans are coming up.

[00:31:43.680] - Mark R Maynard

Well, when I got elected, I didn't even think about my love for motor sports and off-roading. But growing up, reading in Hot Rod magazine and Peterson's Four on Off-Road, I remember in the front, there'd be news sections in the Off-Road magazine, talking about roads getting closed, jeeping opportunities lessened and stuff, and talk about legislation that was reducing it. Then in the Hot Rod magazine, they'd talk about restrictions on hot rodding. I thought, Wow, I can do something here from the Senate. So talking about the off-road opportunities, I thought, you know what? When I let the bureaucrats know what opportunities exist in this world, because I knew we weren't taking advantage of it, it'll be on and we'll do such good things. But they weren't interested, really. Now, we have the Hatfield-McCoy Trail system, which is world-renowned and really good. That's only a select part of West Virginia. We've got, you can imagine what our opportunities to here are like. Our entire state is in the Appalachian mountain range, the only state that is entirely within the Appalachian mountain range. Our hills have been logged and coal mining has been done for Well over 100 years.

[00:33:17.260] - Mark R Maynard

So there's trails and roads everywhere. But you have to know somebody before you can find these trails a lot of times. But there's been steps slowly being made, and it's been a little frustrating, but little by little, I'm making steps.

[00:33:37.220] - Big Rich Klein

And you've built the... Let me get the name right here, the Country Roads Coalition, which is a group of individuals that help... And the counties there, the roads are county roads until they're considered abandoned or something? Can you explain that a little bit? I'm not sure what- Yeah, it takes a process to abandon the road.

[00:34:11.000] - Mark R Maynard

But if you have this road going through two people's property or something, and they don't want anybody on it. They can officially abandon them, but it's a long process. And so me and a gentleman by the name of Jerry Bain that I met in this fight to protect our off-roading here, and Dr. Brian Holmes. After the three of us got together, a few more have been added on. Let's see, Mike Bush, Thomas Burton, and Let's see. Oh, my gosh, I'm drawing a blank. Anyway, we had formed Country Roads Coalition, and Jerry Bain, he has really took an effort to protect our roads, and it's been so great to have their help because I was fighting it alone before they came about.

[00:35:10.160] - Big Rich Klein

The fight is to keep those roads that people want to close open so that enthusiasts can use those roads. Is that correct?

[00:35:20.080] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, because when you think of public road, you think of a blacktop road line with guardrails and stuff. But over the years, We had more miles of dirt roads in this state than we did Black Top. Now, there's been quite a bit of paving done over the years. But some of these backcountry roads are great off-roading opportunities. Actually, this state offers a little bit for every level of expertise on our public roads. Sometimes you'll have a road that nobody lives on, and there's no reason for the state to spend taxpayer money dozing it or grading it and graveling it. So they become a little bit of a challenge. My goal is to get these roads categorized to where somebody can predict an experience and know, come here and plan their vacation and say, Okay, I want to bring my Jeep with 35,000 lockers, and I want to go this trail. And then also, you have somebody that buys a new stock Jeep that doesn't want to really push the Push the envelope and predict a plan. It would be nice for the whole state to be mapped to where you can plot your travel from one side to the other.

[00:36:40.310] - Mark R Maynard

Overlanding along the way, I'm going to... We're in session now My plans are to... This is just an idea, and you're hearing it here first. The state has right aways on their public roads. I haven't even spoken with our Department of Highway yet about this, but my idea is allow one day... I think one of the drawbacks that a lot of agencies are afraid of with dispersed camping is somebody will set up and stay there. In my experience with overlanding, and unless somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but one day in one location is all you need when you're overlanding, especially if you're in the middle of nowhere, you move on to the next place. So my idea is to take this state-owned property right away area and have designated overlanding spots along the way. I myself don't like a big, organized campground, but I know some people do, but I like to be a remote location, to where I have some privacy with a nice view. My plans are to get state-owned overlanding spots, and of course, no amenities, but most overlanding rigs are self-contained. That's a piece of legislation that's in the works.

[00:38:06.980] - Big Rich Klein

Great. Then just have a time limit that people can stay at an area?

[00:38:12.020] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah. We'll have to talk about... I'm thinking one day, and that way, local authorities and officials won't have to deal with somebody. If somebody stays there a day or two, I'm sure it won't be a problem, but we don't want somebody camping out and living there forever. Right.

[00:38:30.000] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Homesteading it. Yeah.

[00:38:31.940] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah.

[00:38:33.240] - Big Rich Klein

And the legislation for that, do you find that the other politicians in your state are open to it? Is it something that's bipartisan or is it run along political party lines?

[00:38:47.880] - Mark R Maynard

Well, it's really... Sometimes it's a party line thing, but it's really hard sometimes to explain to these people. Most of them grew up in the city, and I can only... I mean, really, out of the 134, I can't name one person that is an off-road enthusiast, believe it or not, besides me. It's a little hard to describe to them. Back in the day when I'd stand up on the floor and be discussing a bill, they would look at me like I had one eye because they just didn't understand why someone would want to take a vehicle purposefully through a bad section of road and it be fun. But I've been harping on them now for 11 years, and they understand it, and they're seeing some of the value of some of the bills I've got passed.

[00:39:48.440] - Big Rich Klein

Especially with money that can come into the counties or municipalities, no matter how big, from tourism.

[00:40:00.000] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, because when these people come, they stop at the gas station, they buy ice, they buy groceries. We're definitely seeing the benefits of it.

[00:40:11.880] - Big Rich Klein

Have you tried to do any arrive and drives? Get some people together and put buttons and seats?

[00:40:18.360] - Mark R Maynard

Actually, we have... Yeah, at the Capitol, during session, we've had legislative trail rides and local Jeep Club. Oh, that was one member I forgot to mention who's been a part of our group, Nico Bowden. He's the President of the West Virginia Jeep Club, and he's been really good to organize his club to come to the events at the Capitol. We've had rallies there at the Capitol. One time, we had 100 four-wheel drive show up, and we left the Capitol and had a little bit of a police escort, and we went on this big looped trail ride with 100 vehicles. That was an interesting trail ride. He got a A little nervous, Nico, that the President did with that many vehicles, but everything went smooth and no issues. I think it seems like a 2010 Jeep Cherokee. Grand Cherokee, lost the bumper cover, but it was no problems.

[00:41:19.600] - Big Rich Klein

We did something like that on the Rubicon. Del Albright put it all together, and it was what it was called a law enforcement run. But there was federal, state, county, law enforcement, political appointees, and OHV commissioners, and Judges, federal... In fact, we had a federal judge ride with us, and we went into the Rubicon, a short trip. And it was very fascinating because even Like the CHP, California Highway Patrol, and a lot of the sheriffs at that time had not been up on the Rubicon. They may have been up on the road, the paved roads going up to it, had not seen it, and they were blown away. And I think a lot of those people ended up becoming enthusiast.

[00:42:21.580] - Mark R Maynard

Wow, that's great. Yeah, I've done my legislative trail rides as an invitation, but I need to physically to basically figure out a way to get them out on the trail. I've had senators and house members come out, but not by the masses. But that's glad to hear you guys did that at the Rubicon.

[00:42:44.140] - Big Rich Klein

You got to offer them a free lunch.

[00:42:46.740] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, that's right.

[00:42:50.200] - Big Rich Klein

Salad for some of those and barbecue for others. Yeah.

[00:42:56.260] - Mark R Maynard

To add a little bit to this story, so in two In 2016, I felt like I was beating my head against the wall and wasn't doing any good with the state of West Virginia on my ideas. I was reaching out to off-road organizations and somehow got in touch with a gentleman by the name of Spencer Gilbert. He flew in to meet with me and the government agencies. At the time, he was executive director of the Blue Ribbon Trail Coalition. Coalition. He took an interest in what I was trying to do, and he was the first one to come in. He liked what I was doing. His board actually made me a board member of the Blue Ribbon Coalition. It's been a fascinating ride, and I've really enjoyed working with the Blue Ribbon Coalition because I'm a bit of a fighter myself. The Blue Ribbon Coalition is a fighter. When land gets closed, they're the first ones to be casting stones. And so many of our organizations do great work. It seems like we all have a little bit of a different mission. Tread lightly, promotes really good land stewardship. I've attended the NOVAAC conference as a past President, Dan Kleen.

[00:44:22.120] - Mark R Maynard

It's always a pleasure to work with, and he has great educational seminars. And It's really good that all of our groups can work together. I attend a NAMRAC meeting every year, which is basically all the lead organizations in the off-road world that meet the day before CEMA. I've really enjoyed getting to be inside of these decisions that are being made and to protect our land. As you probably know, the easiest way to manage land is to close These people that are managing this land don't really want to fool with us off-road people, most of the time. We have to fight to keep the land open. It's our taxpayer land, and to use responsibly, and it's just awesome to be a part of it.

[00:45:19.440] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Over 20 years ago, I've been dealing with government agencies as an event promoter for 25 years. And whether it's been federal or state or local or municipalities, county, whatever. I had a BLM, Bureau of Land Management, recreational planner, one time tell me, when I was doing permits, and she told me it was harder and more work for her to tell me no on a permit than it was to allow a And I looked her straight in the eye and I said, who do you think you're kidding? Does that work on everyone? Or are you just trying this out for the first time?

[00:46:13.620] - Mark R Maynard

Oh, my gosh. That's pretty odd.

[00:46:17.120] - Big Rich Klein

Our relationship or my relationship with that particular BLM office went sideways for quite a few years. And it's now one that we enjoy a good relationship with. But it took a change of leadership in the office to make that happen. Yeah. And unfortunately, that happens in these offices. Is that somebody that has their own personal agenda gets in there in, say, the leadership role of the office, and they direct things, not maybe more from a personal view than from a government agency view.

[00:47:07.580] - Mark R Maynard

I totally understand.

[00:47:09.140] - Big Rich Klein

And especially with BLM, where the East Coast enthusiasts that have not been West won't understand this, but there's so much open public lands out here. And there's a national directive on how the lands should be managed. And then by the time it gets down to the local office, the local office has basic autonomy to do just about anything they want, as long as they adhere to the overall general plan. And the difference is from office to office is incredible. There's no consistency, at least for a commercial business like mine, where we go in to do events. We're not a gas and oil company. We're not livestock. It's just we're using the land for three or four days, restoring it if it's that an event where we do anything to the land, and then we move on. And we might come back every year if the agency allows us. But it's from one office to another, and they can be side by side offices. And you're handled completely different in each one.

[00:48:33.500] - Mark R Maynard

It's just crazy. I know the frustration I've actually thought, if I ever get to DC and Congress, that I want a standardize minimum requirement for land use that every office has to adhere to. I'll tell you what we're going to in West Virginia, which has been the status quo for decades. We have a National Forest of George Washington in Jefferson that is in the state of Virginia and the state of West Virginia. When you look up OHV trails in West Virginia, you can see this myriad of trails in Virginia, OHV trails, and they all stop right at the border of West Virginia. West Virginia has zero recognized OHV trails on any federal-owned land in the whole state. Can you believe that? That's crazy. And we're blessed with some of the best riding area ever. And we only have one state-owned, recognized OHV riding area that I got introduced and passed into legislation for a little state forest called Cabway Lingo. Actually, the ultimate adventure came through here and went to... We actually camped at Cabway Lingo. They've got 6,000 acres there and an OHV trail system. That is the only one. But that doesn't mean there's not any off-road places to ride in which there's tons, but it's unfortunately, it's the only ones that are recognized.

[00:50:09.920] - Big Rich Klein

Interesting. That's a shame when those trails just stop at the state line.

[00:50:16.680] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, and we just need to do something somehow in DC to make it happen.

[00:50:24.580] - Big Rich Klein

Are there many private parks? I'm familiar with a couple, or at least, yeah, a couple of private parks in West Virginia where private property owners have established OHV parks. I know of two.

[00:50:41.820] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, I can name them all. Ak and Maria Watley have a park called Chaos Off-Road Park in the Eastern Panhandle on the Washington DC side of West Virginia. Then Good Evening Ranch is a really good off-road park. One of the members Eric Larch, I actually forgot to mention him, a member of the Countrywide Coalition. He and his partner Chris Ingram had just started what is proposed to potentially be the largest off-road park in America, up to 100,000 acres if he can continue to lease the land. But he is having a groundbreaking ceremony, I think, Memorial Day weekend to officially open the park. Wait, we had just attended a groundbreaking ceremony. They're actually going to open for business on Memorial Day weekend. But it's a previous surface mine, and it's close to the town of Charleston, so it should be a big deal. It's called Appalachian Off-Road Trails. I'm sorry, Appalachian Outlaw Trails. He's going to kill me. So AOT. Eric's an enthusiast and a businessman, and really making good strides to make off-roading more more present in West Virginia.

[00:52:02.120] - Big Rich Klein

Interesting. I'm familiar, and I don't know if you are, with Texas. There's a number of privately held off-road parks that are part of ranching operations or that a situation. And then there's the Texas Motorized, the TMTC, Texas Motorized Trail Coalition. And they are a number of... There's two parks currently, possibly a third in the works, and one's in East Texas, one's in West Texas. It's Barnwell and Escondido Dra. And they are run by a nonprofit and get their funds from memberships, where it's almost like the green sticker here in California for OHV vehicles. So if you visit the parks, you have to have this OHV sticker, and you become a member of the parks. And then each one of the parks, the nonprofit, TMTC, runs or owns the properties, and the properties were purchased using grant funds from OHV, and Recreational OHAV. And then each one of the parks is run by a board of directors that oversees the park management. And so it's an interesting concept, and I'm learning more and more about it every day. And to me, it's something that could be copied in a number of other states.

[00:53:57.400] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't heard that business model. When you first think about Texas, you would assume they had tons of federal and state-owned land, but as well as I know, there's virtually very little, right?

[00:54:11.180] - Big Rich Klein

Correct.

[00:54:12.240] - Mark R Maynard

So that's where off-road park would definitely come in handy. You know what? I forgot to mention another off-road park, Burning Rock, which is down in Raleigh County in West Virginia. Been there for quite a few years. I think years ago, there was a king knob off-road park that has since shut down, but I think those are- That sounds familiar, King Nob. Yeah, I think it's closed now, but that's interesting on Texas.

[00:54:38.580] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, when I get more information, I'll send it to you. I think it's a good model that could be used, especially in the areas where there is very little open public land for recreation.

[00:54:53.460] - Mark R Maynard

We've got WMAs in West Virginia, and probably a lot of states back east, and it stands for Wild Wildlife Management areas. Our Department of Natural Resources for the State gets Pitman Robinson funding to keep these areas open, mainly for hunting. That's all it's used for. It just would be a haven for, quote, wildlife viewing in your vehicle. It's really sad because people that are physically disabled can't get on this land in their vehicle. I've introduced legislation in the past to mirror the bill that was introduced in Congress, that is the Americans with Disabilities Act, or Outdoor Americans with Disabilities Act, which is adding on the ADA bill. I figured that would be one way that we could help that segment and also get this land to be used for something other than just look at it from distance.

[00:56:00.840] - Big Rich Klein

Because right now, the hunter, it's all by foot, correct?

[00:56:06.640] - Mark R Maynard

It is. I think it would need to be season because hunters don't want really any motorized traffic while they're trying to hunt. But Basically, this land sits unused for six months. It's during main tourist season is when this land is not used. It's just a shame not to use it.

[00:56:29.300] - Big Rich Klein

I agree. Yeah, absolutely. You're going to continue the fight and hopefully work your way on up the ladder and get to DC?

[00:56:42.500] - Mark R Maynard

If the opportunity presents itself, I would like to do that, mainly just to help bring some common sense to not only our industry, but all industries. For anybody that wants to follow what I'm doing. If you look me up, you can pretty much do a search for Mark with a K-R Maynard, M-A-Y-N-A-R-D. You can find my social media, and I try to stay up to date. And anybody who wants to contact me, they can look up my contact information on the Internet as well.

[00:57:23.020] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. Mark, I want to say thank you so much for spending the time today and coming on to the podcast. And I hope to see you here shortly, possibly at the next Ormhoff Gala.

[00:57:37.640] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah, that's Lord willing. I'll try to make it. I'm unfortunately not the king of the Hammers this year, but you were talking about BLM there a minute ago, and I actually got to attend King of the Hammers last year for the first time. Now I'm in session. Every four years, nothing happens. When I'm in session, I can only go every four years because we start later every four years. It was such a great experience last year that was just way more than I ever expected. We need to say a little prayer for the racers that are there right now. I'm excited to watch online, but it was a great experience.

[00:58:18.320] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, it should be. We just had the the Motorcycle's run this weekend in King of the Motos, and all the other racing is coming up here shortly.

[00:58:28.480] - Mark R Maynard

Yeah.

[00:58:29.600] - Big Rich Klein

All right. Well, Mark, thank you so much, and have a great rest of your day, and good luck in your future endeavors.

[00:58:37.160] - Mark R Maynard

All right, Rich. Thanks so much. Stay in touch.

[00:58:39.360] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, will do. Thank you so much.

[00:58:41.520] - Mark R Maynard

Bye-bye. I'm back.

[00:58:43.680] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.