Family Guy John Mathews from Auburn Auto on Episode 329

John grew up in Auburn, Washington with a passion for automotive work. He excelled in shop classes and purchased his first car—a 1968 Camaro—at age 14. After high school, he worked at a quick lube shop before joining an automotive repair facility. When the owner retired, John's parents bought the business, and after navigating early challenges, John eventually took over. The shop celebrates 30 years in business this year.

Auburn Auto Repair and Off-Road operates as a 50/50 split between general repairs and off-road specialization. With three technicians and 7,500 square feet, they focus on drivetrain upgrades, lifts, and wheels for Jeeps, Toyotas, and trucks. John's youngest son recently joined the team; John hopes he'll eventually lead the business.

John wheels extensively across the Pacific Northwest and beyond—Moab's iconic trails (Pritchett's, Cane Creek), Sand Hollow, and Trail Hero in Utah. He's raced Ultra4 for eight years, competing at King of the Hammers (KOH) from 2018–2025. His standout achievement: winning the EMC (4500 class) in 2022 with a flawless race. His children are all wheeling enthusiasts with their own rigs.

John wants to semi-retire, delegate business management to his youngest son, and spend more time wheeling with family, exploring Colorado and the Sierra Nevadas, and enjoying life beyond work.

Transcript

[00:00:05.320] 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors— men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active in off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.700] 

Whether you're crawling the red rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two, Maxxis tires are the choice of champions. Because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread victoriously.

[00:01:10.850] - Big Rich Klein

My guest this week on Conversations with Big Rich is a hometown boy from Auburn, Washington. Grew up with the love of working on cars, auto shop. All the shop classes in school were his favorite. So it only made sense that he got into automotive repair and now for the last 30 years has owned his own shop. That's Auburn Auto Repair and Off-Road in Auburn, Washington. He has spectated, he has crewed, he has raced KOH. He's come out to WE Rock events in Washington. My guest is John Matthews. Hello, John Matthews. It's so good to have you on the podcast. I'm looking forward to this. So you ready?

[00:01:54.070] - John Matthews

I'm ready. Let's do it.

[00:01:55.260] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. So first question I ask everybody is, where were you born and raised?

[00:02:01.560] - John Matthews

I was actually born in San Jose, California, but I've been here in Western Washington since I was like 2 years old.

[00:02:08.480] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And what precipitated the move to Washington? Parents chasing a job or what?

[00:02:15.620] - John Matthews

Yeah, my dad was an electrician and he actually worked on the Hanford Nuclear Plant down there as an electrician. So that's what got us up here.

[00:02:24.310] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, Dad chasing a job. And so all your memories are from Washington?

[00:02:31.290] - John Matthews

Yeah, basically, I remember— I don't remember living in California much. We moved to Aberdeen at first when I was a little, little kid. And I remember like Mount St. Helens erupting when we lived there in 1982 when I was little. And then we moved up here to Auburn, Washington shortly after that.

[00:02:50.160] - Big Rich Klein

All right. And what was it like growing up in Auburn, Washington? I would imagine that's in the '80s.

[00:02:57.990] - John Matthews

Yeah. Yeah, we moved. Yeah, we moved up here in what, like '83 or '84, I guess it would have been.

[00:03:02.830] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:03:03.520] - John Matthews

And I've pretty much lived my entire life here in the, in the, the same area, the same neighborhood. I live now, you know, probably a half a mile from the house I grew up in.

[00:03:15.150] - Big Rich Klein

Wow.

[00:03:15.540] - John Matthews

But I never, never really went very far.

[00:03:17.820] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And was it— right now it's, it's, it's— I wouldn't call it metropolitan, but, you know, it's a, it's a big suburb, correct?

[00:03:29.670] - John Matthews

Right.

[00:03:30.410] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah.

[00:03:30.950] - John Matthews

Yeah. It's definitely changed and grown up a whole bunch since then.

[00:03:36.650] - Big Rich Klein

How rural was it back, back then when you, when you were growing up?

[00:03:40.910] - John Matthews

Well, my parents' house and the house that my mother still lives in was kind of at the end of a dead-end street, and it had a lot of, uh, apple orchards and guys that owned horses, and we rode dirt bikes and horses and everything all around. And, you know, it's— there ain't nothing but houses out there now, so it's, it's changed a whole bunch. The whole Auburn Valley used to be farmland, and it's a never-ending landscape of warehouses at this point, pretty much.

[00:04:07.470] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And while you were a kid growing up there and being at that, that end of the block, you might say, did you spend a lot of time out in that wild area?

[00:04:18.060] - John Matthews

Yeah, we definitely spent a lot of time building, building tree forts, riding the neighbor's horses and riding dirt bikes and, and stuff like that back then. I remember my dad had like a— we started off with like a, I don't know, it was a mid-'70s Honda, like XL175 that we rode around on my little brother on, on front and my dad riding and me on the luggage rack on the back, just all over the place up here.

[00:04:41.750] - Big Rich Klein

Good memories.

[00:04:43.200] - John Matthews

For sure.

[00:04:44.140] - Big Rich Klein

As a family, did you guys vacation, you know, or go camping, fishing, anything? You know, what was it like?

[00:04:52.490] - John Matthews

There was a little bit of camping and stuff involved, but not, not a whole lot. Parents, parents worked a lot. We didn't, we didn't do a whole lot of fancy vacations or anything like that.

[00:05:02.210] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:05:02.670] - John Matthews

My dad was, uh, uh, Navy Reserves. So every once in a while, every, you know, a few years he'd do his 2 weeks active duty. We'd get to take off and go, go someplace cool then. But aside from that, not a whole lot.

[00:05:15.940] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. How were you as a student? Were you a good student or one of those that was always looking out the window to go try to do something else?

[00:05:25.220] - John Matthews

I was definitely never, never really there. I was, I was often the kid with the the desk in the hallway, or, you know, visiting the principal's office and stuff like that for a long time, even through high school and beyond. My parents remained friends with my elementary school principal.

[00:05:45.620] - Big Rich Klein

And were there any particular subjects that you excelled at, or, you know, was it just you liked horsing around?

[00:05:55.760] - John Matthews

Yeah, I mean, we definitely— back then we still had a decent shop program in junior high and high school. So all through those years, it was a lot of shop classes, wood shop, metal shop, welding shop, auto shop. So we definitely was always into anything, you know, machinery or auto related and definitely took all of the welding and automotive classes. Through junior and senior years in high school. And I always knew I would end up doing something with cars, right? Pretty much knew that the entire time.

[00:06:31.960] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Did you play sports when you were younger or in high school or in school at all?

[00:06:39.060] - John Matthews

Not really. There were, you know, there was a little bit of Little League when I was young, young, but nothing in high school. Nothing, nothing ever really interested me. And, and still to this day, I don't, I don't really give a crap about anything sports unless it's got 4 wheels and a motor. I don't pay attention.

[00:06:54.860] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Okay. When you were taking your shop classes, which of the— of those classes did you enjoy the most?

[00:07:03.930] - John Matthews

Definitely the automotive program.

[00:07:05.530] - Big Rich Klein

The automotive program. Yeah.

[00:07:07.280] - John Matthews

I had a— I had an amazing woodshop and later metal shop teacher. I ended up with the same shop teacher 8th grade, 9th grade, and then I had a different one when I went to the high school in 10th grade. And then my junior high shop teacher came to the high school, so I had him again 11th grade and 12th grade. And actually, to this day, he's still a friend and a customer of mine. And I, I see him on a fairly regular basis.

[00:07:30.190] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, that's cool. What was the first vehicle that you got a chance to drive?

[00:07:37.710] - John Matthews

Well, so when I was 14 or so, so 1990-ish, I had a neighbor with an '84 F-150 that he had blown up the motor in. And was going to— was going to scrap it or junk it or something. And him and I came to a— came to an agreement, and I ended up buying it from him. And then, um, so my dad was never really a car guy. He had his skills and stuff, but he wasn't, you know, the, the car guy always tinkering on stuff in the garage. But one of the neighbors was, so I grew up spending a lot of time in the neighbor's garage learning the car stuff. Um, so he helped me rebuild the motor in that, and we fixed it up and cleaned it up. And I think I sold it even before I got my driver's license, before I even got to legally drive it.

[00:08:27.930] - Big Rich Klein

Wow.

[00:08:29.210] - John Matthews

And then turned around and spent that money. My first car was supposed to be a 1970 Monte Carlo with a 402 in it, and my dad decided that a big block for the first car wasn't probably the best idea in the world. So I ended up with a '68 Camaro with a 327 instead.

[00:08:52.670] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. What did you end up doing to that car?

[00:08:56.330] - John Matthews

You know, in high school there wasn't a whole lot of extra money, so it got, it got cleaned up and, you know, wheels and chrome, chrome valve covers and dress-up stuff, but not, not a whole lot of crazy stuff done to it, right? Didn't have a whole lot of money to do cool stuff with cars until much later, but went through a few cool rides and muscle cars and stuff throughout high school.

[00:09:20.550] - Big Rich Klein

And so from the Camaro, how long did you have that?

[00:09:27.860] - John Matthews

I think I had that one a year and a half, 2 years.

[00:09:30.730] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:09:31.740] - John Matthews

Blazed through a couple of other '67 Camaro, '68, '70 Novas, '63 Nova. There was a there was quite a, quite a few of them in a 3 or 4 year span there.

[00:09:44.080] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And when you graduated high school, was, uh, did you already know what you wanted to do?

[00:09:53.910] - John Matthews

Pretty much. There was, there was never a question that I really, that I wanted to work on cars and stuff. I got a, I got a job right out of high school at a, at a Quick Lube place to get started. And then, uh, When I was 18, went to work at an automotive repair shop that's right down the hill from the house. And I worked for the old owner of that shop for a year and a half before he decided he was ready to retire. And long story short, that's the shop that my parents bought that I ended up working for for years and bought them out a few years ago. And actually next month we celebrate 30 years in business at the same, same location. Oh wow.

[00:10:35.870] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. So working for him for about a year and a half and then your parents bought the business?

[00:10:41.220] - John Matthews

Yep.

[00:10:42.090] - Big Rich Klein

And did they have another manager or were you— did they jump in?

[00:10:47.710] - John Matthews

It's a very long story, but yes, there was an existing manager who, you know, they jumped into it knowing nothing about the business, nothing about running an automotive shop, nothing about how outdated or how worn out or inoperative any of the equipment was that was there at the shop, or that the manager was stealing money and taking customers' cars for joyrides. And it was, it was a whole mess. It took us years to dig out of it.

[00:11:13.700] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, that's a bummer. Yeah, those are probably some pretty stressful times, were, as you were an employee there and they were trying to keep the business afloat.

[00:11:24.370] - John Matthews

Yeah, as an employee. And, and, you know, and then, you know, trying to— and, uh, like I said, it's a long story. It, uh, there's a lot of other contributing factors, but it ended up with my parents divorced and my mother and I running that shop for, for years and years before she retired a little ways back. But, uh, yeah, there's, there's definitely hard times and, you know, figuring out are we paying the phone bill this month or the power bill this month or all that sort of fun stuff.

[00:11:53.710] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:11:53.850] - John Matthews

Wow.

[00:11:54.110] - Big Rich Klein

Interesting. And so 30 years in business, still knocking it out.

[00:11:59.870] - John Matthews

Yep. Yeah, we've— we expanded 2 and a half, almost 3 years ago now. We're about 7,500 square feet, 3 technicians, and we're still just kind of a, you know, small— we're still small shop, independent shop, but we're— we've got a very good name for ourselves and, you know, lots of very long-term customers. And we do We're about 50/50 as far as general automotive repair as well as the off-road side of our business. So we do, you know, a lot of Jeeps and Toyotas and trucks where we do lifts and wheels and tires and gears and all, all of the upgrade stuff. So we've gotten, uh, we've worked hard and maintained and kept a very good reputation in, in that industry, in that side of it. And, uh, it, it's very enjoyable and very fun. And I, I love doing that work for customers and doing a good job and keeping them happy.

[00:12:53.620] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And what's the name of the business?

[00:12:56.510] - John Matthews

Uh, it's Auburn Car Repair and Off-Road.

[00:12:58.770] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah.

[00:13:01.160] - John Matthews

And I know you've been there before. It's been a couple years.

[00:13:04.120] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, yeah, it has been. But yeah, we, uh, we did the— did our— when I think we came by when we had the, uh, the magazine, and it was our right Yeah, we did the tour, the 4Lo tour, we called it.

[00:13:17.840] - John Matthews

Right.

[00:13:19.630] - Big Rich Klein

So your, your clientele then is, is pretty much, especially on the car repair side, it always seems to be very centrally located to the area that you're at. At least every repair shop that I've ever worked in.

[00:13:35.320] - John Matthews

Right.

[00:13:35.970] - Big Rich Klein

People don't normally travel, you know, 30, 40, 50 miles to go have something Yeah, the general auto repair side is a lot of more local customers.

[00:13:44.630] - John Matthews

Well, where— or the off-road side, we're drawing people in from further away, right?

[00:13:49.410] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And it's about a 50/50 business?

[00:13:52.730] - John Matthews

Yeah, we've done good, uh, developing a good balance that seems to really work well for us. So I, I don't imagine that I'd ever want to run a, you know, strictly off-road shop, especially with economies the way they are and people's spending habits and toy money that fluctuates and stuff. So it's, it's worked out very well for us having that balance.

[00:14:14.840] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Your off-road side, you're— are you building, are you taking people's vehicles and just upgrading them, or are you building vehicles for people?

[00:14:27.380] - John Matthews

We're not doing full fabrication, anything too crazy. We're typically taking people's vehicles, and, and the majority of the customers, it's, it's pretty basic stuff, you know, taking a, a new Wrangler and, and throwing 2 or 3 inches of lift at it and some, you know, good suspension bits and wheels and tires and bumpers and winches and all that sort of stuff. We do a lot of, a lot of gears, a lot of lockers, a lot of, you know, drivetrain upgrades. It's definitely our, our specialty. I don't, I don't do a lot of, uh call it overlandy type stuff and lights and frilly stuff. We're more the, the meat and potatoes of the build than the, the lighter stuff.

[00:15:07.680] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And you, you create pretty much lifelong customers that way, correct?

[00:15:13.170] - John Matthews

Absolutely. And, and there are several customers that we've done 2 and 3 and 4 builds for where they'll go out and buy a, a brand new Wrangler and then bring it to us to get it completely outfitted and ready to go to Moab or Rubicon or go, go wheel all over the place.

[00:15:27.930] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's cool. And through those years, was it all work and no play, or, you know, did you, did you play in the automotive field as well? You know, a little racing, local stuff, anything like that?

[00:15:41.860] - John Matthews

Oh yeah, we've, we've definitely— I'm definitely good at having fun and getting out and playing. Obviously it's hard sometimes leaving your business, uh, at home and taking off to play. And I've got one technician that's been with me for over 20 years and He comes with us on some of the trips, whether it's Moab or Trail Hero or, you know, King of the Hammers and stuff like that. So we, we, we definitely get out and play, get out and wheel as often as possible. As you know, we, we raced Ultra4 for 8 years solid. I'm taking a little bit of a break right now, but, uh, yeah, we definitely work hard and play hard.

[00:16:17.240] - Big Rich Klein

And you came out and rock crawled with us as well.

[00:16:19.880] - John Matthews

Yep, we've done a little bit of that as well. Did a little WE Rock in the past, and I've come out there and spectated and spotted and a little bit of everything. Right.

[00:16:30.490] - Big Rich Klein

And, uh, which was the funnest for you, the, the crawling, spotting, or spectating?

[00:16:38.980] - John Matthews

I, I'm a driver for sure.

[00:16:41.560] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And, uh, the local wheeling up there, where do you like to local wheel?

[00:16:50.380] - John Matthews

I love the whole little Natchez area up there on the ridge and wheeling all of Natchez Trail and Caner Flats and Shoestring and all of that stuff. We used to have Evans Creek, which was definitely the closest and my favorite, but there's a bridge that is currently shut down up there out of Wilkerson that due to years of government politics and BS oversight has fallen out of repair, so you can't even get up there right now. Uh, I love Wheelin' Browns Camp, Tillamook, Oregon area. But, you know, I just, I get out everywhere I can. I love it.

[00:17:29.620] - Big Rich Klein

That's cool. Do you belong to any clubs?

[00:17:32.670] - John Matthews

No, we, we ran our own club for, for years, for a long time, doing, doing trail runs and cleanups and a few different annual events with our— it was Pacific Northwest Jeep, but we, you know, everybody had families and job changes and priority changes. So it kind of, kind of fell apart. So I've got more just a kind of a close group of friends that we'll go out and do stuff with.

[00:17:56.250] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Is your immediate family involved with the repair facility?

[00:18:03.900] - John Matthews

I actually just today helped my youngest son write his letter of resignation at the diesel shop he's working out. Working at so that he can come and work for me. But, uh, prior to that, no, none of the kids have really been involved. And I don't know if that was more, uh, them being intimidated by me or what, but they, they're all, uh, kind of, kind of car guys. My, my oldest boy Tanner worked as a diesel mechanic and tow truck driver and stuff like that for a while, but my, my youngest son out here has been in a diesel shop since high school, so a couple of years now, but he's going to come and work for me.

[00:18:39.670] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, excellent. Excellent. Being a family business for so long and then the youngest son stepping in there, are you hoping that it's going to move on down to him?

[00:18:54.140] - John Matthews

Yeah, I'd love for that to happen. Obviously, I've kind of tried getting all of them involved over the years and until him, they haven't really showed a whole lot of interest, unfortunately. But Yeah, I think, you know, I'd love to get him in there and learn more about the wrenching side of it, but also be able to take over some of the service writing and office portion of it so I can step away from the business a little more often and go do stuff and not have to shut down or let things get crazy while I'm away for a couple of days. But yeah, long term, that would be the goal is to get him at least, if not any of the others in there and work on it.

[00:19:32.860] - Big Rich Klein

And outside of, of the local wheeling, what area do you enjoy wheeling the most and why?

[00:19:42.410] - John Matthews

You know, that's a toss-up. I've been— we've been— we've done Moab, we've done Easter Jeep Safari a ton, we've been to Sand Hollow and Trail Hero a few times. Um, believe it or not, all of the racing I've done, all of the wheeling done everywhere around, I, I haven't made it to the Rubicon yet. Oh, I've never been. Um, we're actually doing, uh, Dusy Ursham later this summer. I've never been down there. I'm greatly looking forward to that trip. So I, I love Moab and I love Sand Hollow, and for both for completely different reasons. Like, Sand Hollow is awesome for just the non-stop obstacle after obstacle after obstacle. You could just go there and wheel the hardest things non-stop and still go back to the condo and have lunch after. I mean, it's all really close by, where, right Moab is awesome. I love the trails down there, and that you can't beat the scenery and the arches and the river, you know, and it's just gorgeous. You know how it is down there, right? Um, but you know, sometimes some of those trails get a little long in the tooth between obstacles. So it's— they're both amazing but for completely different reasons, right?

[00:20:47.520] - Big Rich Klein

And then the Rubicon, you got to bring your tent and sleeping bag, right?

[00:20:52.030] - John Matthews

You know, and I, I have no problem with that. I'll, I'll I'll camp in my RV. I'll stay in a condo when we're in Sand Hollow or Moab, but I have no problem packing up a tent and tent camping it as well.

[00:21:04.530] - Big Rich Klein

Cool. Well, when you get to that point where you're going to do— making plans to do the Rubicon, let me know because I'm only an hour from the trailhead.

[00:21:15.060] - John Matthews

Nice. So I know, uh, John Herrick's down there. I think he's doing it next week with his group.

[00:21:20.020] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, is he? Okay.

[00:21:20.980] - John Matthews

Yeah, and I've been invited on that run for a few years and always always seem to have other stuff going on. Or, you know, like I said, I've spent most of the last decade doing, doing racing, so the time I get away from the shop has all been around the, the Ultra 4 program.

[00:21:33.600] - Big Rich Klein

Right, right. And, uh, when are— approximately what time are you doing Doozy?

[00:21:41.210] - John Matthews

Um, it's mid-September.

[00:21:44.280] - Big Rich Klein

Mid-September. Okay, it's a good time to do it.

[00:21:47.410] - John Matthews

Yeah, we're going with— I, I'm just I'm not in charge of it or leading it. It's, it's a run with Neil and the guys from Yukon Gear and Axle, and we're tagging along on their run.

[00:21:57.870] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. The racing— what was the first year that you raced King of the Hammers?

[00:22:04.100] - John Matthews

First year I raced would have been 2018.

[00:22:07.910] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. The way you said that, so you were, um, down there prior to that?

[00:22:13.420] - John Matthews

My first year, we went as a spectator in 2000 '09. Okay, we went with John Herrick and Larry Nicol when they were getting Crawl up and rolling and stuff down there, Crawl Magazine, right? Um, and then I went back in 2010 and I crewed on the car with Ian Johnson and Jimmy Penner. And then I think it was the 2 years after that, I want to say it was '11 and '12, when Larry and John and then Larry and Brian Anderson raced EMC and Larry's 4500 Jeep that I went down and crewed and chased and pre-ran with those guys.

[00:22:52.160] - Big Rich Klein

And what year was that, you said?

[00:22:55.150] - John Matthews

I want to say that was '11 and '12 or '12 and '13, something like that.

[00:22:59.290] - Big Rich Klein

All right. When you first went down as a spectator, what did you think of, of the race when you saw it?

[00:23:07.470] - John Matthews

Oh, it was awesome. It was pretty crazy. And back in those days, that was when they ran the the starting line went straight out towards the desert and everybody was lined up and down both sides of it and they were hitting bomb craters and launching in the air, just going crazy right off the starting line. It was pretty insane to watch.

[00:23:24.290] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, it was pretty small back then.

[00:23:26.310] - John Matthews

Yeah, it was really. And then you could go, you could drive out and go drop into Wrecking Ball and hike into some of the canyons and watch these guys, you know, driving over each other or rolling over and the spectators were rolling down and flipping cars back over and it was a whole different animal than it is these days.

[00:23:43.900] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Those, those days back then were pretty, pretty exciting. I remember them well.

[00:23:50.660] - John Matthews

Yeah. Yeah. And then we got out of it for a couple of years, got busy doing other stuff. I don't know if it was, you know, dealing with kids and other stuff. And then I kind of got the itch to go racing again and kind of started shopping for a car. And I think it was the fall of 2017 when I bought, bought the, the used 4500 car that I raced for 8 years.

[00:24:12.770] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And, um, the used car, so who was the previous owner?

[00:24:17.490] - John Matthews

It was Jordan Townsend's 4500.

[00:24:19.670] - Big Rich Klein

Jordan's. Okay.

[00:24:20.790] - John Matthews

Yeah. And he raced it for a few years and won a bunch of stuff with it. I'm pretty sure we had the longest consecutively raced EMC car ever because Jordan raced it I want to say 5 years, and then we raced it 8 years. So it raced every single EMC from the start through 2025. Wow.

[00:24:42.920] - Big Rich Klein

And it was the same, same chassis and everything?

[00:24:46.230] - John Matthews

Yeah.

[00:24:46.640] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:24:47.030] - John Matthews

Yeah, we made, you know, we made some power plant changes, we made a couple little changes and axle changes and stuff, but it was, yeah, same, same basic car the entire, the entire time.

[00:24:56.170] - Big Rich Klein

That's pretty wild. And what, which race, what year was the most memorable to you?

[00:25:03.330] - John Matthews

Well, we won the EMC in 2022, so it's pretty hard to top that. Winning, winning KOH, winning the EMC is, uh, pretty much top of the, top of the pile as far as racing memories go.

[00:25:14.700] - Big Rich Klein

And what about that race? Was it, was it just flawless? Everything just went perfect, or were there—

[00:25:20.490] - John Matthews

yeah, there wasn't anything, anything necessarily extraordinary about the whole thing. Everything just went how it was supposed to, and that's, that's what it takes to win that race, where you're not battling mechanical issues, you're not battling health issues, you're not battling tire issues. Like, it's— yeah, it's just one of those where everything came together, everything worked. We didn't have a single flat tire. It was just a flawless day, and that's what it takes to win out there. So it's prep and crew and the car and a little luck in there for sure.

[00:25:53.040] - Big Rich Klein

And what about the year that— what was the hardest year?

[00:25:58.590] - John Matthews

Probably the year after winning. Let's see, we raced it 8 years, so the first 2 years we were like 8th place, 6th place, and then we had a couple of DNFs. And you know, you know, in that race when 85% of the cars aren't finishing, like, they're— people are DNFing way more than they're finishing that race.

[00:26:19.620] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, absolutely.

[00:26:20.830] - John Matthews

So I— let's see, we finished the first 2 years, and then I think we DNF'd 3 years, and then we won it, and then we DNF'd again, or some— something like that. But yeah, definitely, you know, coming— because we won a couple of championships and stuff in there as well. So we had won a championship, we had won the EMC, and you come back the next year and we had won, um, well, I guess KOH is the first race of the year. But yeah, coming, coming off that win and you come into the KOH week with that history and all those expectations, and you think, oh, we, you know, we did it once, we can do it again. And, and then I think we blew up a transfer case or a front differential 40 or 50 miles in. So yeah, it's a huge letdown coming in with kind of those expectations and, and hopes and maybe a repeat or maybe another podium or something, and then yeah, DNFing again, it's definitely, definitely tough to swallow. Right.

[00:27:19.990] - Big Rich Klein

That's racing. Yeah.

[00:27:22.950] - John Matthews

And racing, not winning, right?

[00:27:24.580] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. That's why they call it that. It's like fishing, you know, they don't call it catching. Absolutely. So in those, in those DNF years, what were the things that took you out?

[00:27:39.440] - John Matthews

Let's see, we hit a big rock one year and split a front axle housing in half. We broke our rear ring and pinion on Waterfall on— I'll be honest with you, I get so turned around and lost out there, I don't even know where I'm going half the time. My, my co-driver just points and I steer. But yeah, we broke a rear ring and pinion on a Waterfall one year. Um, we had a, what, 2024, 2023, the first year that that they took us out of the start and straight into Turkey Claw. I think we had started top 15 cars or whatever, so we were in a pretty good position going into there, and it was just a clusterfuck and cars jammed up everywhere. And we had gotten a little bit high-centered on a rock, and we winched ourselves right off, so it wasn't that big a deal. But I think we dented the driveshaft and caused a vibration, um, at, you know, race mile 2. Then we blasted it 50, 60 miles an hour, you know, across the desert at 100+ miles an hour. And I think the vibration there, um, killed the bearing and the front output in the transfer case because we hit the first sand hill to get up towards the top of Resolution to come down back door and realize that we didn't have four-wheel drive.

[00:28:57.290] - Big Rich Klein

Oh wow.

[00:28:57.630] - John Matthews

Okay, so like, we, we, you know, we're at race mile 50. I think we were in second place in our class, so we get to the sand hill and we spent an hour and a half winching and screwing around there because we didn't have four-wheel drive.

[00:29:08.410] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:29:08.720] - John Matthews

We eventually made it up Resolution and back and down Backdoor in two-wheel drive and into the pit, and we just decided like it, it makes absolutely zero sense for us to leave here and drive out to the rock trails without having four-wheel drive. So we called it there.

[00:29:23.400] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Making those— when you, when you're still— the vehicle can still move, it's hard to make that decision not to continue But without four-wheel drive, you're never going to finish one of those, right?

[00:29:37.950] - John Matthews

Yeah, we're not going to make it. We weren't going to make it through Turkey Claw again. We would have gone 2 miles out there and become a trail plug, just been a liability out there on course and dealt— had to deal with recovering the car and being in everybody's way. And it just, it didn't make, it didn't make sense to even leave the pit at that point.

[00:29:55.270] - Big Rich Klein

Right. The two of the other two that you finished, Were there challenges to overcome or?

[00:30:04.710] - John Matthews

Yeah, I mean, we've battled early on. Let's see. I know we had a couple of fuel delivery issues. There was, you know, a couple of flat tires, of course. There was a year when we had first switched from about a 400-horsepower LS1 to about a 550-horsepower LS3. And we didn't, really realize until 30 or 40 miles at speed that the, the fuel system was doing goofy things and wasn't able to keep up. We were running the, the stock-style Corvette fuel filter that has the fuel pressure regulator built into it that like a lot of the LS swap guys use because it's stupid cheap and simple. But running the fuel pressure and the volume we were after, like 30 or 40 miles, it would basically go into like hydrolock. It wasn't— the fuel pressure regulator got confused after a while and it, and it couldn't keep up. So, you know, we would battle fuel delivery issues for a little while, we let it cool off and it would go. But it took us a little while to figure that out. But yeah, there was times that we, that we finished, but we just battled, battled issues, right?

[00:31:16.310] - Big Rich Klein

How many times did you finish in the dark?

[00:31:18.720] - John Matthews

Honestly, I don't think we have.

[00:31:20.640] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, that's good.

[00:31:22.500] - John Matthews

I don't think we've ever— we've definitely recovered the vehicle in the dark.

[00:31:27.940] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah.

[00:31:29.070] - John Matthews

But yeah, of the finishes and the wins, we either made it back before dark or we broke early enough that we were back in camp and drinking margaritas by lunchtime.

[00:31:41.650] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:31:43.910] - John Matthews

There was one year, I want to say It must have been '21 or '22 because I know it was, it was the LS1 we burned up before we switched to the LS3. And we were, we were battling temperature issues, and I know we'd gotten it hot, and I know we were burning a bunch of oil. And we were up on some goat trail on the ridge towards the top of, um, uh, the Fisher Mountain out there. And it was just barely limping along on one of those little, you know, sections of goat trail that's barely one lane wide. And I was like, please just get us up here. I don't want to stop or stall or be in the middle of the racetrack right here stopped because nobody could get around us. And we made it back down and down to the next trail, and basically about the time we passed the mailbox down there, the thing just stopped running. And we could crank on it, it had no compression, like we'd burned all the rings out of it. There was just nothing left. And I know we'd gotten on the, the radio with race ops and with Dave Cole and basically told him we were out told him where we were, and Dave comes on, he's like, Jesus, John, you couldn't have picked a worse spot that you have to get yourself recovered from, because we were the furthest distance from anywhere and too many rock trails and hill climbs to get to it.

[00:33:01.340] - John Matthews

And yeah, it took us a while to recover and get that one out of the canyon.

[00:33:06.220] - Big Rich Klein

You mean you didn't call in the helicopter?

[00:33:08.640] - John Matthews

No, I, I'm not raising on that kind of budget. And we ended up on one of the hill climbs with, uh, do you know Gary Henderson, the Jeepcast guys? Yeah, we ended up with him and I think it was 3 JKs total with, you know, 100 or 150 feet of winch line each, like daisy chained to each other to winch us up and drag us up one of these big hill climbs.

[00:33:35.060] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. So do you think the stories from the DNFs are greater than the stories from the win?

[00:33:48.270] - John Matthews

I mean, not probably, because like I said, the win was pretty uneventful. I mean, obviously the— it's awesome to win and the after-party is cool and all of that, but there, there wasn't as much involved to get there other than just a really good day of racing. Where, you know, on the, on the DNF days, or the days when we had to battle to, to get a finish, there was there's a lot more, a lot more involved there, a lot more thinking involved, a lot more trying to come up with a plan to make things work and, and stuff like that. So there's definitely a lot more to that story, I suppose.

[00:34:21.500] - Big Rich Klein

And when you make your comeback, what class do you expect to run in?

[00:34:28.640] - John Matthews

Uh, if I come back, I'm sticking with 4500.

[00:34:31.550] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:34:33.310] - John Matthews

I, I love that class. I love all of the other racers that are in that. It's such a killer group of people. Um, I like that, you know, the cars still look like Jeeps or Toyotas or whatever you're trying to race. And I don't know, I, I've had more fun in there. I don't, uh, I'm not working with the budget to be competitive in 4800 or 4400. And I don't know, I don't see the, the points in racing if there's no chance at even, you know, being remotely close to competitive.

[00:35:02.690] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And do you have a, uh, a time frame in mind?

[00:35:06.840] - John Matthews

I, I really don't. I, I— but the original plan was to take this year off. Um, I've got another car already that is 80% complete that we've been working on for a few years. Um, at the moment it's just kind of collecting dust though. I've seriously been enjoying a little break and, and taking the time off. I've, uh Got a lot of friends that are still racing and, you know, stressing out every weekend about getting stuff done and getting race cars ready to race and stuff like that. And I'm, I'm going camping and going to, you know, my daughter's dance recitals, and we're going to Trail Jamboree next week. There's just a lot of, a lot more fun I'm having here with a lot less stress in my life right now.

[00:35:48.290] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:35:49.490] - John Matthews

We did that, we did that full racing thrash for 8 years straight, and it's, it's just, it's just a thrash. And it's, it's nice to catch my breath and do some more stuff that's just fun.

[00:36:00.320] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So maybe that 4500 ends up becoming just a really nice trail rig.

[00:36:06.860] - John Matthews

Yeah, it might be a really nice trail rig. It might, it might be that somebody is looking to get in the class and I make them a deal and put somebody else into it to finish it. I'm completely undecided at the moment.

[00:36:17.160] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And what's the platform that you've started?

[00:36:21.990] - John Matthews

Well, 4500 rules have changed a little bit since my original car and since the class started. But it's, it's a full tube chassis 4500 car to be competitive with, uh, you know, Dan We Rock and the other completely built 4500 cars that are out there now. So it's 2-inch chromoly chassis, fabricated housings, but still fits in the 4500 rules with the 14-inch shocks and mechanical steering and 37-inch tires and stuff. So it's nothing too crazy, it's just definitely more purpose-built than my original car was that was still based off of a TJ frame rails and stuff like that.

[00:36:55.460] - Big Rich Klein

Right, right. And then just drop the, the, uh, the, the body on it, right?

[00:37:02.770] - John Matthews

Yeah, it's, it's skinned and still looks like a TJ.

[00:37:05.360] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect, perfect. And, uh, does the family come down with you when you race?

[00:37:12.080] - John Matthews

Oh yeah, absolutely. So the, all of the kids come with me as often as possible. My, uh Middle boy Connor co-drove with me for, for the majority of the racing. My younger boy Caden co-drove a couple of races here towards the end of it as he got old enough and experienced enough to be able to do it and able to get away from school and stuff like that. My daughter comes and cheers us on and hangs out in the pits and has a good old time. But yeah, the, the kids all come as often as possible.

[00:37:42.990] - Big Rich Klein

And is your daughter the youngest?

[00:37:45.090] - John Matthews

Yeah.

[00:37:45.500] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:37:46.460] - John Matthews

Yeah, she just turned 14.

[00:37:48.390] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:37:49.330] - John Matthews

She's done a little bit of local PNW side-by-side racing and stuff like that, but she's completely— she's completely into it.

[00:37:57.380] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. Excellent. So you guys make a— when you head down, when you were racing, you made a 2, 3 week vacation out of it. I wish we could go on. Yeah.

[00:38:10.230] - John Matthews

Never got quite that long, but yeah, they'd come down for, we do, you know, KOH for us was always 10 or 11 days and all the kids would come and have a good time.

[00:38:18.260] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. The business, are you looking to expand again? Are you gonna, are you thinking you're right at the right size?

[00:38:26.510] - John Matthews

I think at least for the time being that I'm right at the, I'm right at the right size, you know, bigger and more businesses, more responsibility and more hassle and more overhead and a lot more stress. And I don't know that there's, more, uh, bottom line there to, to make that much effort worthwhile. But I'm kind of happy with where we're at for the moment.

[00:38:49.130] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And, uh, do you have any good stories from, from like Trail Hero?

[00:38:54.790] - John Matthews

I don't know, we ended up out there lost one night and on, uh, on some buggy trail that we definitely should not have been on. I don't know if you know Pat Benson, he's a good buddy of mine that lives down there now, and I know he guides on Trail Hero and stuff a bunch, but I don't know, I took a wrong turn and ended up on some trail that I most definitely should not have and called him and kind of told him where I was at and he just laughed at me and, you know, kind of told me good luck.

[00:39:25.640] - Big Rich Klein

And did you continue out or did you get turned around?

[00:39:29.040] - John Matthews

Right. We were, uh, I don't know, I think it was the first year I went to Trail Hero, 4 or 5 years ago. We were headed out to one of the condo complexes for the Yukon party, and we rolled into the condo complex and there was cop cars and like FBI agents and everything all hanging out there. And we were kind of like, well, that's weird, what the heck's going on? We, we rolled in with all of the Yukon guys and sat in the driveway and, you know, cracked a cold one, started drinking beers and hanging out, and about 15, 20 minutes later, all these guys came in like, like you see in the movies, all the lights off and everything else, full-on no-knock raid on one of the condos like next door to where the party was.

[00:40:14.180] - Big Rich Klein

Oh really?

[00:40:15.540] - John Matthews

We were just kind of sitting there mixing drinks and drinking beers and hanging out and watching, and then all of a sudden it was like 40 agents come storming in there. It was pretty crazy.

[00:40:26.020] - Big Rich Klein

And I, I assume they took people out in handcuffs?

[00:40:29.260] - John Matthews

Yes. Yeah, there was definitely, uh, several people that left in handcuffs that night, and we were just kind of like, calmed the party down for a few minutes there and then cranked it right back up as soon as they were done.

[00:40:42.530] - Big Rich Klein

That's a good one. That's a good one. Do you have any, any trails down there that are— that you like the most, that you just every time you go down you run?

[00:40:53.960] - John Matthews

Yeah, I don't— and again, you know, we normally hop in there, we I just follow Pat around. I don't know the names and stuff down there real good. I know we did, uh, I think it was The Fallen was one of my favorites. And there's a couple— there was one that had— man, I don't know my way around there very good at all, but there was one that had a big, uh, big like V-notch. You kind of went up and then you dropped off the end of it. And I think it was maybe on The Fallen. I might be wrong, but there was some— there's a bunch of killer stuff down there. And I love that it's just non-stop. Obstacle after obstacle after obstacle.

[00:41:29.000] - Big Rich Klein

And, and are you wheeling the 4500 car that you raced?

[00:41:33.890] - John Matthews

No. Okay. I have, I've taken it to Moab and stuff before, but no, my trail rig is a, uh, LJ on 37s. Nothing, nothing too crazy, but a, you know, a great Pacific Northwest style trail rig that will do trails and snows and kind of rocks and still drives good on the road and all the things.

[00:41:52.710] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. And when you go to Moab, what's the one trail that you have to do every, every time?

[00:42:00.000] - John Matthews

Um, well, you know, Pritchett's always a must, must, must do. That's my favorite for technical and hard and obstacles. But I love King Creek. I love being down there, especially if, you know, there's a little bit of water where you're just blasting through the, the creek bottoms and winding in and out and kind of chasing each other and chasing the other rigs and stuff and Cane Creek's definitely my, my favorite down there.

[00:42:23.390] - Big Rich Klein

The, the only time I've done all of Cane Creek was with Charlene Bauer and the Ladies Off-Road Network, Off-Road Network run. And I didn't know that that thing ended at— well, it ended with a big, a big obstacle.

[00:42:42.230] - John Matthews

Well, that— yeah, I mean, that's the only reason the trail is rated as high as it is, is because you've got that one gnarly obstacle at the end, right?

[00:42:49.510] - Big Rich Klein

And Hamburger Hill. And I was, I was like amazed because we're just cruising along and, you know, they— Charlene asked if I'd come along and, and Ben, you know, her, her dad, and then, you know, and help with some spotting. And I'm thinking, where are we spotting? I can't think of anything because, you know, I just always stayed in the creek bed and turned around and went back out and never went all the way through. And then, then we get to Hamburger Hill and I'm like, okay, now we got to get these ladies that are all newbies.

[00:43:22.710] - John Matthews

Yeah, they're all new and a lot of pretty mild rigs, I would guess.

[00:43:26.250] - Big Rich Klein

Yes. And it was, it was quite— it wasn't challenging because the girls, the ladies listened so well.

[00:43:36.380] - John Matthews

Oh, they do. They don't, they don't have the egos the guys do. They will definitely listen better.

[00:43:40.220] - Big Rich Klein

Yep. And there was two guys driving the rigs in the group and one listened exceptionally, the other one not so much. And we ended up having to winch him up because he just wouldn't do it the way that needed to be done and he didn't want to get close to the edge.

[00:44:00.590] - John Matthews

I think the last time I did Hamburger Hill there, you know, we had— and I always seem to end up doing Cane Creek with Ian Johnson and his crew when we're down there because they're just fun to hang out with.

[00:44:10.790] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:44:11.430] - John Matthews

But I think the last time we did it, there was, there was 8 or 10 or maybe 12 of us in our group, and we had come up on a group of, I don't know, probably 12 or 15 Jeeps, mostly, you know, 4-door JKs and JLs and stuff. And we pulled off on that little landing right there before the obstacle and watched a bunch of them go up, and I think half of them winched and were screwing around. And I had Caden with me, and I think at the time Caden was probably 15, 14 or 15. And I said, you gonna drive it? He's like, sure. So we, we let all that group go up, and then he hopped in my LJ and just pulled up and followed instructions and followed the line and one-shotted it. And every— everybody in the whole other group kind of just like huffed and puffed and turned around and got in their rigs and left.

[00:45:02.600] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that's how, that's how it ended up with us. We we had a group in front of us. There was like 3 or 4 rigs and almost every single one of them at the very last part of the obstacle looked like they were going to try to drive off of it. I mean, it was like I couldn't understand what they were doing. Whatever they were trying to do, they were doing it wrong and it was freaking the ladies out. And I said, don't even watch these people because they don't— they have no clue what they're doing. You know, they're gonna— they're either gonna somehow get up that, um, but don't worry about it. Just listen to me and I'll get everybody up that. You know, I've been— I've been— I've been doing this a long time. Just no worries. So we each took a different part of the trail. Charlene took the very lowest part of that. I took that the middle part, which is kind of, you know, the hardest part. And then I'd gotten Ben up and then he finished them off at the top. And they, like I said, we went up there with, you know, with no problems except for one, one vehicle where he wouldn't listen and he ended up breaking a taillight as well.

[00:46:16.220] - Big Rich Klein

And I'm like, dude, that's on you, not on me. Right? Yeah.

[00:46:21.130] - John Matthews

If you're not going to listen.

[00:46:22.400] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. I wanted to say, let your wife drive so that she'll listen to what I'm saying and we can get you up this, you know, but I wasn't going to throw him under the bus like that.

[00:46:32.490] - John Matthews

So, right.

[00:46:34.020] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I prefer not to spot people because I don't want to be responsible if they don't listen.

[00:46:41.580] - John Matthews

Right. You know, but I love spotting when it's my kids and it's the same thing. They'll listen as well. So we'll go to— well, They all have their own Jeeps now, but the, the first year, first couple years we went to Trail Hero in Moab and stuff, said I rode passenger seat and got out and walked half the trail because I just get out and watch and spot them up the trails and stuff. And I remember, and there was one year, I think Caden must have been 12 and Connor like 14 or 15, and we roll into Moab, and I think it was like a Sunday afternoon or Sunday evening, the, at the very beginning of Easter Jeep Safari. And we unloaded and went straight for Moab Rim. First time there, first trail in Moab they've ever driven. And I sent— I had Kaden drive up it and Connor drive down it in the dark when he was like 14.

[00:47:32.180] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[00:47:32.580] - John Matthews

And, uh, yeah, they had a blast. They, they love driving all over there. So like I said, most the trails I end up walking half of it. And my daughter now, who's 14, but she's been driving for 2 or 3 years when we go wheeling, so I'll just walk next to the Jeep or, you know, hop in and out and spot them, but they, they drive all, all of the things.

[00:47:50.310] - Big Rich Klein

That's great. That, that's great that you've got the family involved and, and they like to do it.

[00:47:56.170] - John Matthews

Yeah, I've got the, I've got the LJ, I've got two other YJ trail rigs, and then the boys have— the oldest boy Tanner is, we'll call it 75% done with a pretty crazy XJ build that's linked in coilovers and stuff, and then The middle boy has a YJ on 35s, just a well-built trail rig. And then the youngest boy has an XJ on 33s, getting ready to get JK axles and 35s.

[00:48:21.090] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. I'm just finishing up a long build. I'm not going to go into how long, but I started it in 2018. Um, an XJ that is, uh, it's now— I'm waiting on the front bumper to be powder coated.

[00:48:37.450] - John Matthews

And then this is the V8 swap one, right?

[00:48:39.310] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, yeah. So the, the forever, the forever Jeep. I should just name it Forever, the forever build.

[00:48:51.310] - John Matthews

Um, yeah, they get that way sometimes.

[00:48:53.900] - Big Rich Klein

And it's four-linked, um, with radius arm front. And then the, um, I've got it on coils and shocks, but I'm eventually gonna just drop the coils and go to coilovers. I'm just trying to decide which ones. And I wanna drive it a couple of times first the way it is. And I've only street driven it now, 'cause I've only had it back like a month where it's running, where the fans work, everything's functioning. And I'm waiting on rims and It's going to get 37s and coilovers, an internal cage. Still, it'll be a forever build, I think.

[00:49:42.400] - John Matthews

Right. Perfect.

[00:49:43.920] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. Give me something to do now that I'm kind of retired from most things. So we've kind of talked about what you got going on now and a little bit about the future, but look deep into the future. And where do you see yourself in, say, 10 years?

[00:50:01.990] - John Matthews

I've thought about this a bunch and, you know, being able to hope, you know, like I said, hopefully get at least the one kid into the business and running it where I can retire or semi-retire and, you know, at least not have to spend every day there. But, you know, I'd love to be able to get away. And like I said, I'm not sure if that means racing or wheeling or just going around, but I want to, you know, I want to be able to get out and enjoy life some more and not worry about work so much and get out and do some, some more wheeling and some more, uh, touring around the country and checking out all sorts of cool places. I'd love to spend more time in, you know, Northern California, Rock, uh, Sierra Nevadas doing wheeling. I'd love to go Colorado, and I know there's a lot more in Utah that I haven't been to, but I want to get out and just see more of it.

[00:50:52.190] - Big Rich Klein

Awesome. I know that that's kind of been my plan. Of course, I wasn't expecting a, you know, almost 8-year build on this XJ. But now that I'm spending a lot of time in Texas, the parks that I oversee down there or help oversee as the executive director for the Texas Motorized Trails Coalition, is, uh, they're two completely different types of parks. You know, one's the, the western, deserty, rocky, and then the other one is the tree eastern, you know, some rock, um, a lot of dirt, you know, clayish, red clay dirt type stuff, right? Um, the stuff that you don't want to wheel when it's wet, or at least I don't, because it becomes snot. But, you know, having put on events all across the United States and all sorts of different parks and stuff, I would love to be able to get back to those places and wheel because I never felt comfortable knowing that I had another event the next week or the week after that I had to get to that I thought I could go out and push the WE Rock XJ.

[00:52:13.190] - John Matthews

Right. And, uh, gotta keep it together, keep it going for next weekend.

[00:52:17.690] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. You know, and that's what it was. It was like, you know, God forbid that I should break it and then not be able to get it fixed.

[00:52:24.810] - John Matthews

Right.

[00:52:25.370] - Big Rich Klein

And then, you know, how do you set up an event without a set of wheels? So that was always a concern. Now that's not so much a concern because I got a nice flatbed trailer, got a Raptor to pull, you know, to use to pull the Jeeps with a rooftop tent if I need it. And, you know, I can't wait to get out there and be able to, to start wheeling the, the WE, the black, the old black XJ, the, the WE Rock XJ.

[00:52:52.400] - John Matthews

Yeah, I remember when you guys used to come out to Goldendale all the time and that old, old semi you guys had that you camped out of.

[00:52:58.310] - Big Rich Klein

Yep. Well, we still got the semi. Someday I'll get that thing turned over and flipped out and let somebody else take it. It's still half full of stuff, but it's in storage. And then that— the old XJ, you know, it did its duties, but it's on to a new home now. This first time I've told anybody, it's— it left yesterday for Oregon to Grants Pass. So some of my Oregon friends may see it on trails out there shortly. But the guy is an XJ fan and he was like, My God, you're selling this thing? You know, you know, I, I want it. And, uh, I figured it was, you know, he was going to be back in touch with me in a couple of months, and it's a couple weeks later, he's like, okay, I got the money together, I'm coming down. I'm like, holy shit, you know, surprised me. Yeah, but it's gone. So I got a clear spot in the driveway for the, uh, for the V8 XJ now to park.

[00:54:00.830] - John Matthews

Nice. Yeah, that always seems to be the limiting factor is parking spots, right?

[00:54:06.010] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, because I bought an Avon inflatable boat, 13.5-foot on a trailer, and to go to use to go fishing up in the Sierras. And I bought it in the winter or last— the beginning of the beginning of winter before the end of— yeah, it was the end of the season last year, so I didn't even get it out fishing. And I still haven't gotten it out fishing because I haven't had any time now, right? But, uh, that'll be something else I do more of. Just relaxing, drown some worms.

[00:54:47.450] - John Matthews

Perfect. Yeah, I'd like to do, you know, like I said, get some more wheeling out. All, all of the kids are into it, so we You know, it's once or twice a week in the, the group chat with my kids, they're sending me semi-trailers and 4-car haulers like, Dad, you need this so we can take all of the Jeeps to Trail Hero. I'm like, I can get my own stuff there, you guys better figure your own deal out. Yeah, but it's multiple times a week they're sending me, you know, Copman car haulers and tractor trailers and all this stuff. Like, we can take all of the Jeeps in one, one trip. I'm like, Oh yeah, we'll see.

[00:55:23.010] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. So we know what's on the kids' agendas, right?

[00:55:28.930] - John Matthews

Yeah.

[00:55:29.600] - Big Rich Klein

Getting a, getting a big enough rig trailer for everybody.

[00:55:33.470] - John Matthews

Yep.

[00:55:35.490] - Big Rich Klein

Well, if you did that, you could have one of them tow that and then you can still take the RV, right?

[00:55:43.000] - John Matthews

Take the RV or just fly in or whatever.

[00:55:45.120] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah.

[00:55:45.870] - John Matthews

Yeah, the oldest, the oldest boy has, like I said, he's worked for a towing company and he's done hauling and stuff like that. So he could definitely, definitely handle hauling that load.

[00:55:54.680] - Big Rich Klein

There you go.

[00:55:55.900] - John Matthews

Take off a couple of days early and send him down and we can just fly in.

[00:55:59.260] - Big Rich Klein

You're going to have to start rethinking that plan, right? They're going to hear this and they're going to go, okay, let's plan. Let's start planning for Dad.

[00:56:07.920] - John Matthews

Exactly.

[00:56:10.020] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, that's too much. But you got to tell them, okay, you'll get the trailer. They have to pay for the fuel.

[00:56:16.890] - John Matthews

Right. It's not— no free rides here.

[00:56:19.700] - Big Rich Klein

Yep. Nope. Like that old sticker in my first car, my '54 Volkswagen Bug. Ask gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

[00:56:28.770] - John Matthews

Pretty much.

[00:56:29.310] - Big Rich Klein

So they're going to be paying up in gas.

[00:56:32.520] - John Matthews

Yep.

[00:56:33.660] - Big Rich Klein

Well, John, I want to say thank you so much for coming on and being a guest on the podcast. It's been fun talking to you. Like I said, shoot me a text on when you guys go down to Ducey, and if it happens to be a time that I have available, maybe I'll just drop down there. It's only a few hours away and meet up with you guys.

[00:56:54.660] - John Matthews

All right.

[00:56:55.060] - Big Rich Klein

And for sure, I can do the Rubicon if you guys do it next year.

[00:56:58.690] - John Matthews

For sure, I will.

[00:56:59.810] - Big Rich Klein

All right. Well, cool. Thank you. And yeah, we'll— I'll let you know when this airs.

[00:57:06.230] - John Matthews

Perfect. Talk to you soon.

[00:57:07.290] - Big Rich Klein

All right, take care.

[00:57:08.460] - John Matthews

Thanks.

[00:57:08.640] - Big Rich Klein

Bye-bye.

[00:57:09.100] - John Matthews

Bye.

[00:57:10.080] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.