Marketing entrepreneur and off-road media veteran, Cole Quinnell, on Episode 330

Cole shares his 35-year journey from car enthusiast to magazine editor to automotive marketing business owner. Starting with dirt bikes in the New Mexico desert, he became editorial assistant at Hot Rod Magazine in 1990 before launching 4x4 Power—where he built an entry-level off-road publication alongside Trent McGee and Tori Tellem. After twelve years at Peterson Publishing, he transitioned to Chrysler, where he worked in PR for engineering and traveled globally with executives. Following the 2008 financial crisis, Cole started CQ Marketing and now serves clients including Flexlite and Dynatrac, while launching passion projects like Pavement Pounder Events.

Cole emphasizes the importance of staying curious and adaptable. Career paths have dissolved—no single company will define your future. Take opportunities, fail forward, and find work that excites you daily. He credits his success to surrounding himself with passionate people and collaborating with industry leaders who cared deeply about quality and customer experience.

Don't obsess over finding the perfect path. Get your degree, stay open-minded, and pursue what energizes you. Beware of working in your hobby—passion can turn to drudgery as a 9-to-5. Find the balance between funding your lifestyle and doing work that matters to you.

Cole is exploring adventure tours through Pavement Pounder Events, blending his hot-rod expertise with touring experiences. Maybe he should collaborate with Big Rich on an off-road tour concept combining both their industry backgrounds and storytelling skills?

Transcript

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[00:00:05.320] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors—men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active in off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.600] - 

Whether you're crawling the red rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two, Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, For fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread victoriously.

[00:01:10.100] - Big Rich Klein

My guest this week went from a car guy to a photography student to an employee at Hot Rod magazine, on to Four Wheel and Off-Road magazine, then was put in charge of 4x4 Power, where he hired guys like Trent McGee Tori Tullum, John Cappa, started events like Power Tour and Ultimate Adventure, and after 12 years at Peterson, left to work in Detroit and now has his own marketing company. My guest is Cole Quinnell. Hello, Cole Quinnell. It's so good to have you on the podcast. As far as I know, we've never met, but I'm really looking forward to this to get to know you. I've done a lot of the ex and old media magazine print guys, and so I'm really looking forward to finding out your history.

[00:02:07.340] - Cole Quinnell

Oh, thanks, Rich. Thanks for asking me on this. And, and you know, it's ironic, we have been in the same circles for decades, so I'm sure we've stood next to each other at multiple events and not even known it.

[00:02:17.290] - Big Rich Klein

Probably, probably so, whether it's SEMA or Easter Jeep Safari or God knows where. Yep. Yep. So let's get right into it. And I'm going to ask the first question I ask almost everybody, and that's where were you born and raised?

[00:02:34.250] - Cole Quinnell

Well, born is easy. I was born in Reno, Nevada. Raised. Raised is a little different because I actually never lived in Reno. I was just born there. And my parents lived in a small nearby town. And, uh, almost immediately moved to, uh, Oregon, Hermiston, Oregon. And I lived there until I was 5 or 6, and then they moved to Las Cruces, New Mexico. Oh wow. Um, and I lived there until I finished college and then moved to Los Angeles, and then eventually on to Southeast Michigan. Most people call Detroit, but You know, it's like calling Northridge Los Angeles.

[00:03:19.390] - Big Rich Klein

It's the same but different. Right. And let's get into why your parents moved from outside of Reno. What was the small community?

[00:03:30.560] - Cole Quinnell

It was called Fallon, Nevada.

[00:03:32.690] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Anybody in the Pacific Northwest or California, Nevada? Will know  Fallon. Yep, yep.

[00:03:42.910] - Cole Quinnell

And my parents were both, um, they both grew up from with farming families. Um, my mom was from Montana and, uh, her parents owned, um, a dairy farm. And my dad lived in North Dakota and they owned a traditional, uh, farm, okay, with about about 500 acres and, and grew all sorts of things. Um, and both of them became school teachers and met in college and, uh, moved to Nevada. And, um, the move to Hermiston was for better jobs. Uh, I had— I still have allergies and asthma, and at that time, this was the 19— 70s, um, you know, the doctors after a while were like, well, you know, the kid's allergic to everything that grows. You need to move to a part of the country where nothing grows. And, um, you know, particularly pollens, right? Okay. So, um, my dad got a job at White Sands Missile Range in, uh, in southern New Mexico and moved to the desert. You know, the only thing that grows there is cactus. So, right, it's the perfect place for a kid with allergies.

[00:05:04.740] - Big Rich Klein

And, and that is the place where I get where the, the allergies kick in. There must— it must be like sage or, you know, one of those greaseweeds or something that grows in the, in the desert, um, that kicks me. I mean, the cactuses don't seem to do it. But, and it— but it's not bad. It's not bad.

[00:05:28.220] - Cole Quinnell

There, there actually is a lot of pollen in the desert, and there's a lot of things that people are allergic to. Uh, in the 1970s, people discounted that. They're like, that's a desert, nothing grows there, right? Um, you know, for me though, it turned out to be the perfect place for me to grow up because, um, you know, from the time I was 7, I had dirt bikes, and literally I could kickstart my dirt bike at my parents' house and ride off into endless desert. And it was a great way for me to start my off-roading interest and career. And my first vehicle was a truck, and I did all kinds of things with that, which my parents would probably be terrified to know what I did and places I went. I think about that as an 8 or 9-year-old kid riding my dirt bike. There's quite often where I was, you know, 10 miles away from my my parents' house, and they had no idea where I was, even what direction I had left in. Um, you know, such a different world that we live in today, where I don't think any parent— most parents anyway— would not be comfortable doing that.

[00:06:37.730] - Cole Quinnell

They'd probably have a GPS tracker on their kid, you know.

[00:06:40.760] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, they almost all have AirTags in their backpacks going to school, and they give them phones so they can track them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up basically the same way, but I grew up in the coastal range just below San Francisco in a town called San Bruno, and we had a lot of open space between the coast and our town. And so we ranged the mountains up there. No dirt bikes or anything, but bicycles and hiking. You know, and parents, same thing, you know, back in the '60s and '70s, there was no— I mean, if we were home for dinner, that was, that was all that mattered. Yep. As long as you had your chores done, or at least faked.

[00:07:34.890] - Cole Quinnell

Yeah. And ironically, there is also, you know, the off-road community in Las Cruces was a natural. Yes. Uh, but there was also a hot rodding community there. Um, and my dad, even though he didn't have any hot rods by the time I was born, uh, he had, uh, you know, spent his teens and 20s, um, building what they would have called jalopies. Um, and he had quite a few different, uh, hot rods and custom cars and and taught me how to do basic mechanic work like replacing brakes. And, uh, we had a— the family car is a 1971 Dodge station wagon, and, uh, those— the starter and the alternator just took turns on which one went out every 10,000 miles. So, you know, he showed me how to rebuild those, how to replace stuff, how to do maintenance. And for me, that graduated, as I got into high school, my interest into cars. I had subscriptions to magazines, which at that time was the only way to get information. There was no internet, right? So my subscriptions to magazines were Peterson's Four-Wheel and Off-Road Magazine, uh, Four-Wheeler, Hot Rod Magazine, um, and Super Chevy. And I would read these things and then, you know, buy some parts or scavenge some parts and then go out and try to build things and, and do things that made my truck better for off-roading.

[00:09:09.630] - Cole Quinnell

And, uh, and eventually I got a Chevelle and, and built that into a street and race vehicle. Um, so a lot of fun. It was a great place to grow up, and I'm really glad that I was able to do that. And, and that was the start of my career, even though I didn't know it at the time. It was just stuff that I liked doing.

[00:09:31.380] - Big Rich Klein

And, and how were you as a student in school?

[00:09:35.550] - Cole Quinnell

Oh, that— so I, and all the way up through high school, I could do absolutely nothing and get Bs, right? And, um, and that ended up being my downfall when I went to college because I had absolutely no idea how to study or work for grades. And so my first year after my second semester in college, I had a 1.4 GPA, um, which actually turned out, you know, it's— things happen for a reason, right? Um, I had gone into this to get a mathematician, uh, mathematics degree, which is what my dad had. So I was kind of following in his footsteps. And, um, you know, this is just kicking my ass. So um, the photography professor at the school had been my Boy Scout master, and he said, why don't you take one of my classes? It'll be an easy A for you. So I took one of the classes, and I had, I had always taken pictures but never thought about being a photographer. And, um, I really enjoyed the class and thought, you know what, you know, Math isn't my thing. The hard sciences are harder than I expected for me. And I really like doing this.

[00:10:56.160] - Cole Quinnell

And oh, look at the magazines. They take pictures and they write about cars. This seems like a skill I could use to maybe get a job at one of these magazines. So graduated like 3 and a half years later, got my GPA up to a 3.2, which I was pretty happy with after starting off with a 1.4. Right. Um, and, um, ended up getting a job at Hot Rod magazine. As the title was editorial assistant, it was basically a glorified secretary, but for me that was a dream. I was going to the Ivy Towers of Peterson Publishing, uh, working at the most prestigious, uh, performance car magazine at the time, and, um, I was thrilled, you know, this was a dream job. Um, and it was, it was a great time to work at Peterson Publishing. And what year was that? That was 1990. December 17th, 1990 was my first day on the job. Okay. Um, and at the time, Mr. Peterson still signed everybody's paycheck. Nice. Um, and, uh, you know, he didn't really roam the halls, but, uh You did meet him and spend some time with him. And, uh, you know, I was with some great people at the Hot Rod Magazine staff at the time.

[00:12:18.270] - Cole Quinnell

Jeff Smith was the editor. Uh, he was my boyhood hero. I read every word he wrote in the magazines. Um, is he who hired you? He is the one who hired me. Um, and I actually just did a video interview with him that I put on the Pavement Pounder Events, uh, YouTube channel. And we talked a little bit about those times because I, I joked with him. He was a— he is a big Chevelle guy. And, uh, we're talking about him hiring me, and I said, well, I, I think you just hired me because I owned a 1966 Chevelle like you did. And he laughed. He said, that's true. I wouldn't admit that then, but I'll admit that now.

[00:13:00.110] - Big Rich Klein

Figured good choice in car, you know.

[00:13:04.490] - Cole Quinnell

Um, and, and Four-Wheeling Off-Road magazine was in the same building, and, uh, so I got to know those guys because of course I had an interest in off-roading as well as the, the hot rods. Um, and at the time, you know, it was— I, I don't know, I, I thought of them as legendary, but maybe that's because I was a, you know, junior high and high school kid reading the magazines, right? Um, but it was, uh, Steve Campbell, Drew Hardin, Tom Bezzi, um, Ed— I'm trying to remember Ed's last name— but it was a group of guys that, again, I had, I had grown up reading about. So meeting these people and hearing their stories, and you know what, they— especially at that time, what they printed in the magazine was a very professional, polished version of, of reality. And so to hear their stories that would never be in print was just incredible. I was, I was like a, a kid listening to the old-timers at a campfire, and, you know, didn't want to go to bed. I just wanted to stay up and listen to these stories all day long, right?

[00:14:10.800] - Big Rich Klein

And you said the, the first magazine you went to work for was which one? Hot Rod magazine. Oh, Hot Rod. Wow, that's— you jumped right into the big one. Yep, yep.

[00:14:20.740] - Cole Quinnell

Um, and then after, after about 5 years Uh, we had a group vice president named John Diana. He's famous or infamous depending on your viewpoint, but, um, he was quite a personality and, um, you know, trying to grow his, his group in the company. And so he went on a binge of launching new magazines, and one of them he wanted— because I, by that time, um we were still just Peterson Publishing. We had been trying to remember if we had been sold yet. I don't think we had been. There was still Peterson Publishing, and, uh, he went on this power kick and started a new series of magazines with power in the name. Diesel Power, uh, being one that has survived and is— was really strong for decades. In the off-road industry, he started a magazine called 4x4 Power, and he wanted me to be the editor of that magazine. So I took that on as a, as a launch, uh, did that for a year. Uh, we exceeded the goals that have been set for us, um, and I brought along on that ride two people, um, uh, Trent McGee being one. Okay., and, and Troy Tullum being another.

[00:15:47.240] - Cole Quinnell

And, um, you know, we were just this ratty-tatty team that would go out and do whatever needed to be done. And, uh, it was a lot of fun, a lot of work. And after a year, um, there were some other details, but basically, uh, Johnny offered me the editor's position at 4-Wheelin' Off-Road magazine. Magazine. And so I took that on and brought the— I'm trying to remember which order it was, but eventually I brought Tori and Trent over from 4x4 Power onto that magazine as well, um, and Rick Payway, and then eventually ended up hiring John Cappa. So again, just, I've been so blessed to be surrounded by fantastic people that worked really hard and really cared about what they wanted to do. And we're always up for the challenge of how can we do this better? What can we do next?

[00:16:47.740] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And in those early days, bringing it— when you said a ragtag group of you and Trent and Torrey, what was the focus? How did you— were you given like, guidelines and said, okay, this is what we want to see, or was— were you given like carte blanche to kind of put it together?

[00:17:12.170] - Cole Quinnell

Um, there were some discussions that kind of gave a frame rate framework, but you know, one of the disadvantages and advantages of me is I don't follow rules very well. And so if you give me a goal and not worry about the rules, things are going to work out well historically. And that's what, that's what Johnny did. And Johnny had, you know, he had a pretty big group, so he had a lot of magazines and a lot of well-established magazines that paid all the bills. Um, so he didn't worry about these small ones. He's like, listen, I'm going to put you in charge, you go do whatever you do. Um, And so, you know, one of the things that I did is look at the strategy and like, okay, we've got 4-Wheel Off-Road magazine, which is, um, the largest magazine from a circulation standpoint, the largest magazine in the industry at that time. Um, what can we do with 4x4 Power that's different? We need a different segment of the off-road market. So 4-Wheel Off-Road at that time was very technical, Um, it was hard for a new— someone new to the off-roading industry to connect with that.

[00:18:30.410] - Cole Quinnell

There was a ton of what we call inside baseball. If you don't know the terminology, you can't, can't even read the articles. They're, they're too far beyond you. So 4x4 Power, we decided to make it more of an entry-level thing, word things in a way that if you've never been off-road, you can read this article and understand it. Now that's whether it's a feature article where we're going to go someplace and, and show what the off-roading is like at that particular place, or if we're going to do some tech. Um, and then the tech, instead of doing super advanced technology, we did, you know, more basic stuff, you know, lift kit installs, how to figure out what tire wheel package is going to fit, um, things like that. And everything that we did, we tried to word it in such a way that anybody could read it, anybody could understand it. And, um, and also, you know, Tori and Trent are very creative writers. They are very entertaining. True. So it was entertaining as well as educational. So I think that that turned out to be a pretty magical combination that worked really well for us.

[00:19:39.910] - Big Rich Klein

And the that, that entry level, um, did you feel like you were purposely dumbing it down, or were you, you just tried to ease people into it?

[00:19:55.990] - Cole Quinnell

It was more about easing people into it, welcoming people into it. Okay. Um, and it's something that a lot of people in the industry today are really good at, but back then, um, you know, first of all 4Runner Off-Road, I mean, if you weren't signed up and ready to go on Fordyce Trail and, um, you know, the Rubicon but harder than the Rubicon, then you really weren't qualified to read the magazine and enjoy it. You know, it was just— it was more advanced, um, and they were serving a part of the industry that fed on that and wanted more and more advanced information. So there is this huge opportunity in the industry to fill this gap and welcome new people into the industry, get them excited, get them, you know, go buy yourself something and use it. The other thing is that 4-Wheeling Off-Road magazine at the time was becoming very, very Jeep-centric. And so at 4x4 Power, we intentionally spent about 70 to 80% of our effort on full-size trucks. And the, the rest was kind of split between small trucks and SUVs, Jeeps, right? So, you know, again, it was about differentiating ourselves, not just trying to be something that already existed, because that I don't think would have worked.

[00:21:20.840] - Cole Quinnell

And ultimately, when we moved on to 4-Wheelin' Off-Road magazine, the next team that came in, um, became more mainstream and became more like 4-Wheelin' Off-Road and Four Wheeler. And eventually the magazine stopped being produced because of that. You know, there was no, no longer any distinction between it and any of the other titles that were out there.

[00:21:43.550] - Big Rich Klein

It had too much overlap. Yeah, exactly. That's interesting. I remember in the early 2000s when I started CalRocks I didn't feel there was a magazine out there that was extreme. And, you know, that's when everybody was, you know, the competition scene was just blowing up. The magazines would come out to the events, but it was always like the first event of the year, and then we'd get no love the rest of the year. And I was like, okay, how do we do this? And I put together a concept of doing a magazine myself, got a couple of people together. We, we kind of drew out what we wanted and what it would look like and the names of the different sections and stuff. And then I never, you know, I was just too busy being an event promoter to put together a magazine because it's really hard to try to do both. And so I ended up giving that concept to a couple of guys, a guy called me and said, hey, I understand you were gonna put together a magazine, you know, I'd like to pick your brain, we wanna do that. And so I gave him my concept, which was XOM, Extreme Off-Road Magazine, and they ran it.

[00:23:06.630] - Big Rich Klein

I think they put out 3 issues and then they kinda cut their, slit their own throat. And eventually they came back out as Crawl Magazine and then they started to slice their throat again. And then John Herrick took it over and is still running it. And but I always wanted to do a magazine. I just, I don't know why. Probably because I was a commercial photographer. That's my degree is in commercial photography, product advertising. And so I looked at it like, you know, this would, you know, I could use those talents. I don't think I'm a very good writer, but But, you know, there's things that can help that, like my wife, who is a very good editor and writer. So I, I had the opportunity to buy a small magazine that a guy started on the East Coast that couldn't afford to keep it going. And so I bought it for him to print one issue, which was 100 magazines that he had to mail out. So I bought the magazine and we took that over and it was called 4 Low. And we ran it for like 8 years and we did the same thing.

[00:24:18.140] - Big Rich Klein

John had Crawl, which was more of the extreme built rigs, you know, that kind of thing. And I'm looking at the magazines because all the magazines at that point were starting to go away because, well, you know, they got all bought up by the, by the money people that the bean counters were more interested in how much money they made, not content and, you know, filled it with ads and all that kind of stuff. The magazines that finally, you know, have now gone away. And I thought, okay, well, let's take that beginning segment, the guys that are just buying their vehicles, and give them something to look at. And we did that for quite a while, but it was really hard to, uh, to keep it going. Everybody believed that print was dead, and I still disagree with that. But, you know, it's— it was hard to sell advertising. It was getting to be too expensive for us to keep it, so we shut it down. But, you know, John is still out there doing, doing Crawl, and I don't know how he does it, but he seems to have it nailed. Yeah, yeah, magazines are a very hard, uh, business.

[00:25:34.720] - Cole Quinnell

Um, you know, people really underestimate what it takes. And especially, you know, back to that era when you were doing that and when I worked in the magazines, you had to do print, and print was expensive. Newsstand distribution was borderline mafia. Oh yes. I mean, it was, it was extremely challenging. And now it's become, you know, a huge corporate, um, entity. You know, I joked when I, um, you know, I worked for Peterson Publishing for a total of 12 years, and I still call it Peterson Publishing. It became, um, you know, we bought Prime Media, and then we were bought by E-Map. Before all of that, Mr. Peterson sold the company to a private equity firm, and we were Viking Publishing or Viking Enterprises for about— for less than 12 months. I think their entire goal was to turn us, and they did a great job of it. Um, but I, I joked, I sat at the same desk for the last, um, 4 years of my publishing career and had 4 different owners. And, and I decided, you know what, it's time for me to go get a real job. This has been— magazine industry has been a lot of fun.

[00:26:58.170] - Cole Quinnell

Um, you know, I, I could come to work in shorts and a t-shirt, right? Um, and I actually had a real office with a door. So, you know, it was, it was a really good gig at that time. Um, but, you know, I better grow up and get a job. And I also had an 11-year-old daughter at the time And we lived in Santa Clarita, uh, which is about 20 miles north of downtown LA. Uh, it was a traditionally a very safe neighborhood, but they were starting to put metal detectors on the entrance to the elementary school in my neighborhood. And I said, you know what, it is time for me to get out of California, get a real job, and go work for a company that's more stable. You know, bought and sold 4 times in 4 years is not good for my heart. And so I got a job at Chrysler and moved to Detroit. So now I had a real job with a Big Three, which is another one of my childhood dreams. But ironically, that company got bought and sold 4 times in the next 5 years.

[00:28:05.730] - Big Rich Klein

It's the way of the world. You know, everything's going to big conglomerates.

[00:28:13.400] - Cole Quinnell

Yeah, and, and quite often, um, you know, once a company gets sold from its founder, uh, it's going to either see one or two fates. It's going to turn and burn and kept getting bought and sold, or it's gonna, you know, just fade away into the mothership, whatever their mothership ends up being. That's not always the case. There are some really good investment companies out there that, you know, continue to invest in the, in the brands that they buy and, and actually support them and build them. But, you know, we've, we've certainly seen in our industries a lot of companies, a lot of brands that you and I grew up with that don't exist today, or certainly are not what they were when we, when we, uh, started.

[00:29:02.380] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely, absolutely. I, I have to give credit to 4 Wheel Parts and Greg for taking that, building it up, selling it, and then be able to buy it back for pennies on the dollar and then start growing it again. Yes. I mean, Adler has done a phenomenal job as a businessman putting that whole thing together, you know, and it was amazing.

[00:29:41.880] - Cole Quinnell

I mean, yeah. And, you know, it's funny, that was another thing. When I left publishing in 2002, I was believing the news and I was believing, you know, some of the stories that we were printing about how, you know, the performance aftermarket industry was going to die because of regulation. And living in, you know, you live in California still, so you can, yes, you can relate to this. But, you know, California has made it very difficult to modify vehicles, and that's what hot rod and 4Runner off-road was all about, was modifying vehicles. And so I just want to believe that, you know, this industry is going to shrink and, you know, eventually die and phase out like, like horses and carriages did. And, you know, here we are 25 years later, and the industry is bigger and stronger than it ever was. Um, and we've actually seen a rebirth. I mean, who, who would have thought that Jeep would eventually put a 392 Hemi in a Wrangler? Um, I mean, it's something that enthusiasts have been doing themselves, V8 Jeep conversions, since the '50s. But, you know, even when I went to work for Chrysler, you know, the whole Jeep team was like, yep, that'll never happen.

[00:31:05.560] - Cole Quinnell

You know, there's, there's crash implications. There's also just the basic economies of what a Wrangler will sell for. And, you know, fuel economy and people just, you know, we will never do it. And, you know, just two decades later, they're like, oh, There you go. How about a high-horsepower 392 under the hood of that Wrangler? Right. Yeah.

[00:31:28.400] - Big Rich Klein

And then, you know, Ford pulled it off with the Raptor. Mm-hmm. And then doing, you know, Dodge, of course, had to answer with their version, the T-Rex. Yep. You know, and then Chevy's kind of been trying to figure it out.

[00:31:46.450] - Cole Quinnell

But Yeah, we've seen some really incredible, uh, new vehicles being launched over the last 15 years. I mean, that Raptor, I mean, what a game changer. It's so— it's such an expensive vehicle and not a lot of people have had an opportunity to experience it. Um, but even, even back to the very first Raptor, that vehicle has really done well and performed great off-road. Yes.

[00:32:13.430] - Big Rich Klein

And they're rugged. Mine, I got a '12 and it's, I just turned, well, by the end of this week, I will have 332,000 miles on it. Wow. Yeah. And in the last 7, I bought, yes, last 7 years, I bought it in '19 with 52,000. So, you know, 180 or 280,000 miles in 7 years.

[00:32:43.620] - Cole Quinnell

That's incredible. Yeah. And, and that's not the only vehicle you put miles on, right?

[00:32:48.470] - Big Rich Klein

Correct. Correct. Yeah. And it sat for 6 months because we were in our semi truck moving across the country with the Jeep in the back of it. Wow.

[00:32:59.510] - Cole Quinnell

So that's incredible.

[00:33:01.200] - Big Rich Klein

So back in those early days when you guys got first started with 4x4 Power, where did you guys do your your builds and tech articles at? Did you guys have a shop space or did you do them in the driveway or your home garages? What was the deal?

[00:33:19.620] - Cole Quinnell

So everything was in our driveways. Number one, you know, an editorial person at that time, and I don't think in the off-road industry this has changed at all, but you know, we made very little money. A bus driver in LA made about 3 times as much salary as we made. Um, now being a bus driver in LA is a very dangerous job.

[00:33:42.130] - Big Rich Klein

Yes, for a number of reasons. Yep.

[00:33:45.440] - Cole Quinnell

Uh, but you know, that, that still is an inequality as far as I'm concerned. You know, here we all had college degrees and we're working in professional, uh, industry. Um, and, uh, you know, just so We didn't have a company shop. Hot Rod Magazine was the only one that had a shop, and at that time that shop was a, uh, uh, where a warehouse space, but I want to say it was about, I don't know, 60 feet deep and about 25 feet wide, so not huge. Um, uh, I— for the— for what it was, we did a great job of outfitting that and using it, but in the off-road magazines, we had none of that, so we would do stuff in our driveways because we couldn't afford to have a house that had a garage that you could actually work in. And so a lot of those builds, I mean, you look back at those, those articles and you can clearly see that if, if we're doing it in one of our houses, we're outside. And more often we would work with a shop, Maurice at Off-Road Unlimited in Burbank, California. Was great to work with, had a lot of, you know, unique products that he created, but he would also help us with anything we needed.

[00:35:08.870] - Cole Quinnell

So we would, you know, come over and his team would help us install some products, and then we could focus on doing the photography and writing up the notes of what needed to be modified, what other parts you might need, that sort of thing. Um, you know, Jim McGee at Dynatrac was another one who was great to work with and helped us out on way more than just things that featured his, his axles at the time. So we would do a lot of that where we'd work with company owners and shops and they would help us with space and tools.

[00:35:42.360] - Big Rich Klein

Right. That makes sense. Yeah. And I remember that as being, you know, part of that. It was, it was more like, well, you were catering to your customer because your customer was working in the same environments.

[00:36:00.970] - Cole Quinnell

Yeah, yep. And that's, um, you know, one of the stories, one of the conversations that Jeff Smith and I had shortly after I was hired. Jeff was really good when somebody new would come in, he would pick their brain to see like, okay, what is it like for the enthusiast today? Because he had worked in the magazine industry for about 8 years when I joined the company, and he realized that, hey, number one, I'm living in Los Angeles, I'm not in Iowa anymore. And companies are offering me everything, right? Just feature my product in your magazine and I'll give the product to you so you can, you know, portray it. So you lose touch with reality. What, what is the guy in Iowa or New Mexico or Idaho facing and doing? What are his challenges? So when I came on board, he was like, well, you know, tell me about the modifications you were thinking about doing. And, and why about— why would you do those, and, and how would you get it done? And for me, you know, I never paid a shop to do anything, um, before we're in the magazines, because I could barely scrape together enough part— enough money to buy the parts.

[00:37:10.940] - Cole Quinnell

And a lot of times the parts were used, they weren't even brand new. And, uh, so I told Jeff, I'm like, well, you know, when you go to a shop that's got 3 Snap-on rollaway toolboxes and a lift, I have a hard time relating to that. So, uh, I'd like to see articles that really show how you do it in your garage or your driveway. And I said, you know, my reality, my Chevelle was built in a dirt driveway, um, you know, with a bunch of borrowed tools and, and cheap used parts. And, um, you know, and I had a ton of fun with the car the way that it was built. And the same thing goes for my truck. My truck, I never like took down to the frame rails and rebuilt, but I had made quite a few modifications to that, and that was my daily driver. So any modification I started Friday had to be done by Monday. So, right. And that's something, and I'm sure I didn't always do it, but that's something I tried to keep in mind as we did how-to tech articles. So like, you know, we need to really show what a person needs to do in order to install this, what's the benefits, what challenges are they going to run into, and how to do it.

[00:38:23.910] - Cole Quinnell

You know, let's equip people how to do this. Let's not get them to go out and spend a lot of money on something that doesn't work the way it's supposed to and requires, you know, so much work to install. We used to joke that, you know, especially back in the '90s, bolt-ons don't. Um, and you can bolt anything on as long as you have a cutoff wheel and a welder, right?

[00:38:55.260] - Big Rich Klein

And did you find that, that the experimentation that people were doing, you know, with like quarter elliptical and three-quarter elliptical and, you know, trying to do all sorts of weird things to get performance out of their off-road rigs. Did you guys find that, that intriguing or hilarious or, you know, what was your thought on those kind of things? Both.

[00:39:22.460] - Cole Quinnell

But it was, you know, like I, like I said earlier, I like to learn and I like challenges. And so as people were exploring those things and trying them, I was fascinated with it and I wanted to see how it was going to work. And, uh, see, the other thing that I did a lot was what can we take from other industries or sports and apply to off-roading. Um, you know, there's, uh, there's a lot of tech that can transfer for, for a variety of reasons. And, um, so I saw all that as a positive. Um, the thing that I tried to avoid doing was going down rabbit holes and focusing on something that was like, you know, super trick but really didn't have any application for somebody that was just trying to build a better Jeep to go out and enjoy their family time with. Right. But, you know, one of the things that racing really does that's positive for the entire industry is it creates, it develops new technology and new product and a better, faster, lighter, more efficient way of doing everything. Um, so I, you know, I think there's always that portion of the off-road racing that we at the magazines paid a lot of attention to.

[00:40:50.560] - Cole Quinnell

So who's doing what and how are they doing it? Now, the downside is that racers being racers is they want to keep the best secrets secret. Right. So oftentimes we wouldn't learn about a technology until it had been discovered and outlawed or whatever. But there's still a lot of opportunities there to take and break that into the more mainstream for the benefit of the industry.

[00:41:13.490] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I thought it was interesting with the early days of the rock crawling competitions that, you know, basically everything was pretty much stock. With bigger tires, you know, spring overs, that kind of thing. Um, and then, and then we saw guys starting to do their own chassis, um, like, you know, Ramor with Avalanche Engineering and stuff like that. And then it, it became, it became to the where, where we were like looking at, at what was being done to go fast, but trying to make it work going slow. And so then, you know, coilovers and, you know, air shocks and that kind of thing. But what it did that whole time was people with their— at home, the enthusiasts would come out and watch the rock crawling, would try then to look or perform like the rock crawlers. Without going 100% in, you know, to becoming, you know, a competitive rock crawler. But they wanted, they wanted to mimic that, just like the guys in the hot rod industry wanted to mimic the dragsters, the guys that were drag racing. Um, you know, the off-road guys, the pre-runners, all became, you know, pretty much like, you know, the, the race cars, up to the point of still being able to be street legal.

[00:42:45.730] - Big Rich Klein

So I think that that competition world really pushes the boundaries of what people can do with their daily drivers.

[00:42:55.930] - Cole Quinnell

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's that trickle-down of technology. Right.

[00:43:02.240] - Big Rich Klein

And a lot of that, you know, came with when the TJ, when Jeep brought out, you know, from the YJ to the TJ, All of a sudden, oh my God, you know, it's, you know, we've got links instead of leaf springs. And then it became, you know, all of a sudden, you know, we got into the JKs. And I think that, I think actually the JK platform probably saved off-road just because of the economy and everything at the time. And all of a sudden it was like, oh, a four-door that you can take your kids to soccer practice. And people started buying Jeeps that never would have bought Jeeps, right? It created that SUV craze. And, uh, and then they became— everybody realized they were a really good platform when you could, could modify them. And then they took them beyond that, and the factory, you know, starts modifying them from, you know, hey, here's the base model and now you can get this modified one with all of our stuff on it. So I find that really interesting that, that it's gone in that direction.

[00:44:17.810] - Cole Quinnell

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it was funny. I worked at Chrysler when the JK was launched and, you know, I first came on board the engineering team there. I knew all of well, not all, but I knew a lot of the engineering team, um, because of my work at the magazine. You know, we'd go on vehicle introductions and certain members of the engineering team were always there and, and, uh, got to know them over the years. So when I joined, it didn't take very long for them to figure out that, hey, Cole works at our company now, so we can talk to him about all this stuff that we're working on. Um, and I remember most of the traditional Jeep engineers were just so adamantly against a 4-door. They're like, it's a longer wheelbase than the original K5 Blazer, right? That's just, that's just wrong. That's not what a Jeep is. And, you know, I think that the 4-door version of the JK ultimately not only saved the Wrangler for longevity, but to your point, uh, welcomed a whole new crop of, uh, what would become off-road enthusiasts into the, into the industry. You know, now I can have it as my family car, which allows me to justify keeping it once I have a family and go out and go off-roading with it.

[00:45:43.050] - Cole Quinnell

And, and that chassis, you know, to kind of repeat and build on another point you brought up, you know, when TJ came out with multi-link and, you know, you go drive a stock TJ today and you're like, oh my God, this is horrible. Um, but at the time it was so much better than a YJ, right? And, uh, and then the JK was so much better than the TJ. Uh, so, you know, all of these improvements and refinements that the, the, uh, lunatic fringe is what we— what they called themselves within Chrysler at the time, um, were so adamant against still watering down the JK. Well, I think that the current Wrangler is more capable in stock form than any, uh, CJ, YJ, TJ, JK, and, uh, ever was. Um, but it also has all of these luxuries and amenities that make it easier to drive on a daily basis and, and more welcoming to people getting into the industry. I think that probably the biggest challenge with the new Wrangler is just how expensive they are. Um, you know, if you would have told me 30 years ago that someday you'd be able to buy a $70,000-plus Wrangler, I would have laughed at you.

[00:46:57.650] - Cole Quinnell

But, you know, it's— and, and, you know, living in Michigan, that's one thing I, I miss about living in, in the Southwest, is that, you know, when I worked at Peterson Publishing, for more than half of my years there, I drove my '66 Chevelle to work every day. That was my commuter car. And I could do that. Living in Michigan, whatever you drive on a daily basis, you're sentencing to rust death. Yes. So I have to pick and choose. And I actually, I've been through quite a few vehicles, um, and I just— the, the point of me telling the story is I just bought a used, uh, 2018 JK, so the last year of the JK, um, to have as my daily driver. And I went to Tennessee to buy it, so it's got zero rust. It looks like it just came off the assembly shop underneath. Um, but it's like, okay, you know, and I, I will see how long it takes me to start modifying it. But, you know, at this point it's like, all right, I've got a driver that I can, I can stand to drive every day. I can enjoy driving it.

[00:48:12.270] - Cole Quinnell

It's capable, it gives me what I need. And, you know, but I've pulled the pin on the hand grenade. Let's see how long it lasts before rust takes over. And, and, uh, you know, also just the longevity of, of a Jeep Wrangler. It has 100,000 miles on it now, so we'll see how long before things start going wrong. But, you know, my other Jeep Wrangler has got 186,000 miles on it at this point, so.

[00:48:36.690] - Big Rich Klein

Right. We have a 2000 TJ that is stock except for the front bumper has a worn winch bumper and a worn winch on it and it's got 31s. And otherwise it's completely stock. It's my wife's Jeep and she won't let me touch it. She wants to keep it stock. She loves it because she can get in and out of the parking lots without a hassle. The Raptor is, you know, extra long, extra wide, and she just doesn't feel comfortable parking it at the grocery store and stuff. But she loves her little TJ. Eventually it'll become our beach Jeep, but it's rust-free, so that's nice. We're up in Minnesota right now, and I just, I told her, I said, I can't move here. There's, besides the cold, You look at every vehicle out here and they're only, you know, 4 or 5 years old, or they're missing part of their door panels or fender wells, rear tailgates. There was a Cherokee that was a Grand Cherokee in front of us that was probably maybe 10 years old, and you could almost see in through the tailgate. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, this is— I can't do this.

[00:49:56.310] - Big Rich Klein

You know, I would, I would cry if my, my Raptor started to melt, you know, it's like, yep.

[00:50:04.080] - Cole Quinnell

So yeah, that's a real part of life here, unfortunately.

[00:50:07.520] - Big Rich Klein

So what— where are you still with Chrysler or are you doing your own thing now?

[00:50:13.640] - Cole Quinnell

No. So ironically, my, you know, I went to Chrysler, like I said, I finally had a real job and I had some fantastic opportunities when I was at Chrysler. I, for 3 years, I was doing public relations for engineering design and quality. And so I had a badge that would get me in almost every part of our headquarters, including the design dome, which was very, very difficult to get into. And I traveled with our executive vice president of engineering, who was Eric Breidner at the time. And he was a car guy, which this was a shock to me when I went to work for Chrysler, especially coming from the magazine. All those people that I listed off, and there were a couple of other people that I worked with over the years, Vern Simons, Craig Peroni, even our art director, Alan Huber. And all of us were enthusiasts. We're hands-on enthusiasts. We cared about what we did. And we cared about our customer because we were our customer. When I went to work at Chrysler, I thought, I'm going to, you know, carmaker mecca here, one of the Big Three, which that's not even a term anymore, but one of the Big Three.

[00:51:35.910] - Cole Quinnell

And I get in the doors there and I'm excited because I'm here where they make cars, they engineer them, they build them. And I find out immediately that about 90%, maybe probably more than 90% of the people that work at a carmaker could care less about what they make.

[00:51:55.950] - Big Rich Klein

They're not car people. That's so depressing.

[00:52:00.860] - Cole Quinnell

It was very shocking to me, and it took a little while for me to adjust to that. And so what happens is when you do find somebody that's a car person, you, uh, you, you bond together, you group together. Um, now that's not to say that they didn't actually care about their job or what they were doing. Um, you know, it's funny, the, the, the father of the modern Hemi, uh, was, uh, Robert Lee, Bob Lee, and he was the vice president of powertrain when I joined the company, and he was not a hot rodder, was not a performance car guy, but he loves historic tractors. And so he still had this mechanical passion, right? Um, and he was smart enough to recognize things. Like, he's the one that suggested the marketing, like, well, you know, the new 5.7 liter is a Hemi, right? And in the '60s, Chrysler was known for Hemis. And so he's, he's the one that really turned the marketing team on to the idea of using the Hemi as a marketing tool, which, you know, obviously worked out really well during that era. Um, but the executive vice president was Eric Reidenauer, and he was a car guy.

[00:53:23.600] - Cole Quinnell

He had had a convertible Firebird, uh, when he was in high school, grew up in Michigan, uh, may or may not have street raced on Woodward.

[00:53:35.310] - Big Rich Klein

Rumor has it. Oh yeah.

[00:53:37.720] - Cole Quinnell

And, uh, and he had just— while we were working together, he had just bought a '70, uh, Superbird, uh, Super, Super Bee. Sorry, not Superbird, Super Bee. Um, and it's funny because I was in his office for a meeting and, uh, there are 3 or 4 other people there. We, we, we end the meeting, stand up and leave, and he's like, Cole, can you wait for a minute? I'm like, oh shit. You know what? Dang it, I do here. And everybody walked out of the room, and he pulls these photos out of his desk. He's like, I just bought this, have a look at this. And it was a Superbird, Superbee. Um, but anyway, uh, at that time, executive vice presidents and higher of the company flew by the private jet, which, uh, we had two, uh, Gulfstream G5s. And so I spent 3 years traveling around the world with him, and we— the places I got to go, the things that we did, uh, were just incredible things that I'll, I'll like remember and value forever. Um, but anyway, my tenure at Chrysler lasted 5 years, and, uh, 2008, the economy crashed. 2009, Chrysler offered every salaried employee a package if they would voluntarily leave the company.

[00:55:02.000] - Cole Quinnell

And so I took the package, left, wasn't sure what I was going to do, but I was sure that, you know, while in 5 years we had had 7 rounds of corporate cutbacks where I had survived, and I was like, you know what, they just offered every salaried employee a package to leave. The next time they come to my desk, they're not offering me anything. They're just going to walk me out. So take it. I'm gonna take it. It was, it was enough to survive for a year, um, if I didn't find any work at all. And so what I ended up doing was starting Zeek, uh, CQ Marketing, and getting back into the performance side of the automotive industry, which is where my passion really is., and immediately, uh, Flexlite brought me on to help with some of their marketing, and that grew over the years. And Flexlite was my first client. They're still with me today. We've, uh, it's been 16 years now if I'm doing the math right, um, and, uh, my company does most of the marketing for the Flexlite brand. Um, we've had some other fantastic clients during the time.

[00:56:20.420] - Cole Quinnell

Uh, Jim McGee at Dynatrac was, uh, one of my, my favorite clients because he always challenged me and my team to do better. And that's what I thrive on, is I want to learn, I want to grow. Whatever we did last year, I want to— I want to stop doing the 20% that worked the worst and add 20% new to explore and try something. And I think you have to keep doing that to be successful. Um, you know, another one of our clients today is Tremec Transmissions. Um, we do all of their aftermarket, uh, transmission social media and photography and video for, for, uh, at events. Um, great people to work with, great products. Um, but I, I really enjoy doing this. It's, it's a challenge, uh, but it's great variety too. That's one thing that I've been frustrated with in some of the big corporations that I've worked with is that, okay, here's your job, stay in your cubicle, stay in your lane. And I don't do that very well. I think strategically, I think beyond what my job description is and doing this type of work for these aftermarket companies, they want that, they thrive on it and they need it.

[00:57:40.970] - Cole Quinnell

They're small teams and they need help. And, and frankly, there's a lot of agencies out there that are focused on billable hours and however they can generate more revenue for themselves. And my goal, my mantra has always been, if my— if I can make my clients more successful, it makes me more successful. Right. And that's, that's worked out pretty well. So at this point, I've actually owned and operated CQ Marketing more than I've done any other work for another company.

[00:58:13.780] - Big Rich Klein

Isn't that amazing?

[00:58:16.190] - Cole Quinnell

It is amazing, and it sneaks up on you. Um, you know, you know that being in business for yourself is a different type of animal, and, and there are very few people who are cut out for it. Um, but, um, yeah, I wouldn't, wouldn't want it any other way at this point. I mean, I've got— and, and I've been so lucky to have really great clients, been able to work in, uh, with great companies, and I I don't take on just any company. It's got to be a brand and a product that I believe in and, and a person who has integrity that I really want to work with and help. Because ultimately, I believe that I'm helping whoever it is I'm working with. We provide an excellent service and, you know, I, I want to help good people succeed.

[00:59:06.540] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. Excellent. And what would you, what would your advice be to somebody that's, uh, looking to get out of their, what they're doing because they're tired of punching a clock and wanted to do something in the automotive industry, whether it's off-road or hot rods or whatever? What would you tell somebody that, that's looking to escape their, what they consider a mundane life?

[00:59:36.590] - Cole Quinnell

So the number one piece of advice is do it. Now what it is, that is the magic question. So, you know, when I was in high school and college and even my first few years in my first career, I was always looking for the path. How do I get to this where I think I want to go? And the reality is that that path is constantly changing. And I think that's more true today than it ever has been. You know, in the 1950s, you could, you know, become an apprentice, work your way up through something, eventually become a plant manager, a division manager, a CEO, whatever. There were paths. Today, those paths are, you know, footsteps in the sand on a beach. They are washed away. By, uh, buyouts, by regulations, by all kinds of things. So it's constantly changing. So what that means is don't worry about finding the path, find what you want to do next. Um, and I, you know, there's always two trains of thoughts on what you want to do for work. Either do something you're passionate about, one of your hobbies, and then you'll never work a day in your life, which is true but not true.

[01:01:01.300] - Cole Quinnell

Um, or don't work in your industry because then you'll end up hating your hobby. Um, you know, if you're working whatever your hobby is and it becomes your 9 to 5 and it becomes drudgery and all that, then you end up hating that hobby. Um, and I think there's truth in both of those. You got to find what works for you. Uh, some people can be perfectly fine punching a clock, doing a job that is not something they enjoy or care about, as long as it funds the weekends and the 2-week vacation that they do go and do whatever they want to do. And that's, that's good, good for those people. That's not me. Me neither. I mean, I need to be excited and passionate about what I'm doing every day. And I do believe that when you have people, whether it's you or your employees, but when you have people who really care about the industry they're working in, they work harder, they have better ideas, and they do a better job because they know why it's important. It's important to them, therefore it's important to their customers.

[01:02:07.060] - Big Rich Klein

True. Very true.

[01:02:09.270] - Cole Quinnell

I think the other piece of advice is don't be so tied up in making the right or wrong decision for today. And the way that I explain this is I have a daughter who is in college right now, and she's very concerned about the degree she wants in order to get the job that she wants to be able to do what she wants. And I've gone back to my college and given, you know, talks to classes. And I say the number one thing is, you know, keep going, get your degree, and then get out there be open-minded to the opportunities that come along. I, I started college thinking that I wanted a math degree and that I'd become a math teacher. I ended college with a degree in photojournalism, went to work for a magazine. Now I own a company, and I spent a lot more time— well, first of all, 80% of what I do couldn't have been taught in college when I went to college. And anything that was taught in college when I was there is irrelevant now. So you gotta keep growing, you gotta keep learning, but be open-minded. Look at the opportunities that are in front of you and take 'em.

[01:03:31.610] - Cole Quinnell

You know, go explore this and go explore that. You know, I hate to say it, but the days of working for a single company for 25 or 30 years and retiring, getting a gold watch and a pension, are gone. So go do things you enjoy, make the best decisions you can along the way, but don't worry about the bad decisions. They help you grow and learn as well.

[01:03:54.900] - Big Rich Klein

I, I have to agree with that 100%. Um, through my life, I've— until I found what I was going to do in off-road, I never stayed with a job or had my own business longer than 5 years. Okay. I mean, if I made it to a 5-year pin with any company, it was like amazing. And even, even with my own stuff, I mean, as a, a contractor and, you know, owning a shop and doing, you know, whatever it was that I was doing, which I seemed to have 20 different careers, it was— I got bored. Is what happened to me. I just— it just became drudgery. Well, then I found the, the rock crawling competition started, and I watched what the earliest guys were doing, and I thought, man, I could do this, and I think I could do this better. And I really loved it. I wasn't a driver, I wasn't a spotter, I wasn't competing, but I thought I could put together a competition and I would do it for the drivers and everything else will just fall into place. And then after 25 years, we're still doing it. Although I have a partner that's boots on the ground because, well, my knees aren't going to last much longer as they are.

[01:05:21.640] - Big Rich Klein

So, you know, get the younger guy that has the same drive that I did into it. And that's what I've done. And it's It's been a great, a great run, you know, but I finally found something that was, that I didn't mind doing and putting 100% into. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:05:41.380] - Cole Quinnell

And that 100% is something that a lot of people have a hard time understanding. I, like you, I got bored with things. I think that's one reason I had a hard time staying in my own lane. And, um, that's one of the things I love about, uh, the agency work that, that I do now. I mean, I've got a, a good team of people. Um, but just me, you know, I might be out in my shop welding together a display for trade shows in the morning, in the afternoon, um, doing emails and conference calls, and in the evening I'm back out in the shop doing video or photography. Um, and, and then, you know, tons of travel interspersed with that. You know, COVID put a stop on travel, but I'm I'm back now to traveling more than 150,000 miles a year. Um, so it's, uh, you know, like you, I thrive on that diversity and the daily workflow, the weekly workflow. Um, and it, it's exciting, you know. The other thing that I got to do at the magazines was start events. Um, at Hot Rod Magazine, I started Power Tour. At, uh, 4Runner Off-Road magazine, I started Ultimate Adventure.

[01:06:55.240] - Cole Quinnell

And Ultimate Adventure— both of those are continuing on today. Ultimate Adventure is now called, uh, Unreal Adventure, and Trey McGee and Christian Hazel have done a fantastic job with that. Um, so I kind of— the last couple of years have given me a little bit of bandwidth to explore and grow things. So I started this company called Pavement Pounder Events in addition to CQ Marketing. And started doing hot rod tours. And they're, they're small. I don't have any aspirations of getting thousands of vehicles. Um, we've done two of these annual events now, and I'm, I'm about to leave for Colorado, Utah, and Arizona on my third pre-run trip for next year's event. Um, and it's, you know, again, it's just given me that, uh, opportunity to go out and do some more things. So I don't— I wouldn't do something like Unreal Adventure, but I have given some thought to doing some off-road type of adventure tour as well. So who knows? There might be something there in the future.

[01:08:02.740] - Big Rich Klein

That's cool. I've been doing the same thing. Maybe we should talk more about that. Maybe we should. Let's, let's do that. That's, that might be interesting. Taking both of our backgrounds and melding them together with some kind of an off-road tour that would, might really surprise people. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice.

[01:08:24.950] - Cole Quinnell

And something, something that they would enjoy. That's been the feedback I've gotten from the people who've come on the Pavement Pounder events tours. You know, first of all, of all the people who've come, I've only known one before they signed up to come on this. Um, and, uh, they've done a lot of different driving tours, and the one thing they say is that we're really enjoying every minute of this, you know. And again, I'm doing this for passion. This particular business venture I don't make money on. It's, it's more funding my passion to go out and do it. And, um, and so I'm focused on— I want them to have a great time. I want them to have experiences that Joe Blow can't get access to on their own. And, and then we're going to do it as a group and a group of like-minded people. So it's— I think that's a good formula for the off-road enthusiasts as well. Absolutely.

[01:09:22.020] - Big Rich Klein

What I, what I've come to realize is that people want experiences, but they want most want to have that experience with somebody that's experienced doing it. They don't want to go out there and do it on their own the first time and go, oh my God, I'm in over my head. If they're going to get in over their head, they want somebody there, not necessarily to hold their hand, but to assure them that everything's okay.

[01:09:49.370] - Cole Quinnell

Exactly. I mean, a lot of people like the idea of signing up for something crazy like, um, parachuting, but they're only willing to do it if they're hiring somebody that's experienced with it, is calm about it, knows everything that is going to happen, supposed to happen, and can happen. And it's the same thing with one of these adventures, you know. Yeah, especially off-roading. Off-roading adds another element because, you know, if your vehicle's not set up right, every off-roading trip is a great opportunity to break something, right? Um, You know, and that was part of the formula with the original Ultimate Adventure is, you know, there's no trailers, you've got to drive. And we're doing, you know, at the time the idea was a super hard trail one day and then, uh, you know, whatever highways and roads were required to get to the next place the next day. Um, but it certainly adds that element of I've got to make sure my vehicle is set up right and be prepared on the trail to fix things. And, you know, that's part of the adventure, part of the challenge, and certainly part of the memories.

[01:10:54.980] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. Absolutely. And then for them to get to hear the stories that come from the guides on these tours, whether you're sitting around a campfire like you do in Off-Road, you know, or in a, you know, I'm not sure how Power Tour does it, but, you know, I've got friends that have done Power Tour, but I've never done it myself. But I know that there's, there's times when everybody's all together and they get a chance to hear the stories from the people in the industry. And they, they just relish that, that storytelling. Yeah. And, you know, getting that feel like they, they've become an insider. So.

[01:11:36.620] - Cole Quinnell

Yep. Yeah. And, you know, certainly we'll share stories and groups that we wouldn't say publicly. Right, right. Absolutely.

[01:11:48.090] - Big Rich Klein

Everybody's got their phones off. Yep. Well, Cole, I want to say thank you so much for coming on as a guest. Kind of culminates all of the stories and the interviews that I've gotten out of Trent and everybody else that's been in the magazine industry. I'm still waiting to get Rick Payway on. Even though I do see him a couple of times a year. But we're, you know, I'm glad we got a chance to do this. And I will call you about, about thinking about, you know, what we could do in the future. I think that might be kind of interesting.

[01:12:28.480] - Cole Quinnell

So that'd be great fun. And thanks again for inviting me to do this. I had a lot of fun. Excellent.

[01:12:34.300] - Big Rich Klein

Well, thank you so much. And I'll let you know, this is going to air this Thursday morning, so I'll send you all the links and everything. All right. Thank you. All right, Cole. Thank you. And you have a great day. Thanks. You too. All right. Bye-bye. Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or If there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.