Episode 334 features the trusted voice of Keith Purmal

In this episode of Conversations with Big Rich, Big Rich Klein talks with Keith Purmal, a 2025 Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame inductee and one of off-road racing’s most trusted voices.

Keith shares stories from growing up in Las Vegas, developing an early interest in electronics and ham radio, and working in communications at Area 51 and Nevada Power Company. His lifelong passion for radio technology eventually connected him with legendary promoter Casey Folks and the Las Vegas 400.

For more than four decades, Keith has coordinated race communications across Nevada, Arizona, California, and Baja. He describes the challenges of installing repeaters on remote mountaintops, managing multiple radio networks, adapting to Starlink and satellite communications, and staying calm when races take unexpected and sometimes tragic turns.

Keith also reflects on Casey Folks’ leadership, the importance of volunteers, and the teamwork required to make an off-road event successful. He discusses his Hall of Fame induction, the emotion of being recognized by the racing community, and his plans with Cindy to continue supporting races while traveling and enjoying retirement.

This episode celebrates the behind-the-scenes professionals who help keep racers safe and events running—and the off-road family that makes the lifestyle so special.

Transcript

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00:00:05.320] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors—men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We share their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active in off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.700] - 

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[00:01:13.280] - Big Rich Klein

My guest this week has been organizing race communications for over 40 years, being that voice that was steady, clear, calm, and reassuring at events in Nevada, Arizona, California, He made racing safer being that guy behind the mic. My guest is a 2025 Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame inductee. His name is Keith Permal. Good morning, Keith Permal. So good to have you on the podcast. It was good to get to know you during the ORMHOF induction ceremony and gala last year. And I'm looking forward to this conversation.

[00:01:58.220] - Keith Purmal

Good morning, Rich. Glad to be here. Thanks to you and Orm Hoff for everything.

[00:02:03.720] - Big Rich Klein

Well, let's get started with the first question I ask everyone, and that's where were you born and raised?

[00:02:11.440] - Keith Purmal

I was born in Wisconsin and moved to Las Vegas in diapers. My dad was in the Air Force, so I've been in Las Vegas for 66 years now and, um, never lived anywhere else.

[00:02:29.230] - Big Rich Klein

You said your dad was in the Air Force?

[00:02:31.750] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, he was at Nellis, and that's where my sister was born, like, a year and a half after me. Okay, so you're—

[00:02:42.060] - Big Rich Klein

all your memories are of Las Vegas, so you've seen Las Vegas grow up? Yeah, yeah, definitely. And yeah, what was it like living in Las Vegas as a child, um, those 66 years ago?

[00:03:00.240] - Keith Purmal

Uh, it was awesome, you know. Um, I, I just, uh, I deliver papers with my stepdad and uncles, so I got to see the town kind of more than most kids. We got basically delivered papers, newspapers all over town. And I got to see some, you know, roads that are now major roads when they were dirt. And just, it's grown by leaps and bounds compared to what I first remember. I can imagine.

[00:03:38.120] - Big Rich Klein

Just the Strip alone is You know, I've seen old pictures of, you know, the casinos when they first got started. And then it's like, you know, it's a big difference.

[00:03:51.660] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, my mom worked as a change girl at like the Horseshoe. Oh, wow. And I remember picking her up at work and, you know, being downtown. And one time seeing LBJ when he was walking down on Fremont Street. As a little kid. Uh, we drove by kind of where he was walking through the middle of town.

[00:04:17.320] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, that, that kind of stuff doesn't happen nowadays. Yeah, exactly. And so what, what would you say is the biggest change for you living in Las Vegas over that time period?

[00:04:39.740] - Keith Purmal

Just the growth and the people that have come here and the opportunities. You know, I, like I say, I worked as delivering papers. I had my own paper route and I've always— there's always been opportunities, you know, to make a living and thrive in in this town, right?

[00:05:06.150] - Big Rich Klein

I guess so, because as long as it's expanding, there's, there's job opportunities.

[00:05:12.390] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, but I've only had like 4 jobs in my life. Oh wow, okay, 4 jobs.

[00:05:18.430] - Big Rich Klein

We'll get into that. But yeah, before we do that, what about like with your dad being in the Air Force? I would imagine that vacations were far and few between, or was there time for family vacations?

[00:05:35.270] - Keith Purmal

Well, the day I, I would say basically my parents divorced when I was about 5 years old. Okay. So, uh, I did— my dad did live in Las Vegas. My mom did remarry, and I lived with my mom and stepdad, and we would go out of town like, um, to a place called Warm Springs, which was like a swimming hole north of town about an hour that's no longer, you know, a place to go. And we'd go to Mount Charleston, kind of day trips, or out to the lake or whatever. But extended vacations, you know, we, we go out and travel out west or over to California, camping mostly. And I never really stayed in a hotel until I was, um, like, like a teenager or a young adult.

[00:06:36.780] - Big Rich Klein

And what was school like for you? Um, were you a good student, or were you one of those looking out the window, you know, hoping to get out soon? Uh, I, I started out slow.

[00:06:49.680] - Keith Purmal

I had a hard time reading, and I had some teachers that took care of me, and kind of gave me pointers and all that, and I eventually got up to speed, um, ended up graduating as a salutarian, not a valedictorian, but under that slightly. I ended up with a 4-year scholarship, uh, when I graduated high school. I went to a vocational school where I learned electronics and Ended up in communications.

[00:07:22.590] - Big Rich Klein

And was that an interest as well in high school, or did you make that— you know, when did you make that decision that you wanted to get involved with electronics?

[00:07:34.320] - Keith Purmal

Well, I started working at Wilson Electronics, which was a CB antenna, ham antenna manufacturer, okay, uh, in Las Vegas at the age of 14. and they got into radios and stuff like that, and it kind of piqued my interest, uh, working, uh, going from like a shop guy to, you know, assembling antennas or putting together antennas to be shipped. And I eventually worked into working in the radio shop at Wilson Electronics. Interesting.

[00:08:06.480] - Big Rich Klein

And so then did you— the study, I would imagine, like, we had shop classes up in Northern California at our age when we were in high school. You had the tech-type shop classes as well?

[00:08:25.530] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, that's the vocational school I went to basically was centered on— I went for electronics and it was like 2 or 3 hours electronics and then the rest of the day was, you know, math, English, and social studies or whatever. And so it was kind of focused on your education, and I did that for 3 and a half years before I, you know, graduated from there. But like I say, that melded right, right in with my work at Wilson Electronics, uh, just doing, uh, helping with, you know, I, I eventually moved into the radio shop at Wilson Electronics. Excellent. And Was—

[00:09:13.750] - Big Rich Klein

so you've always been kind of tech-driven that way. Were there other interests that you had or hobbies as you were growing up?

[00:09:22.730] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, yeah, I kind of left that out. Yeah, I hooked up at Wilson Electronics with a cohort, Tom Manilo, who worked there and went to the same school I did. And we ended up becoming friends and He joined me at the warm-up thing. Very nice. Sorry, but, um, then we got into, uh, motorcycles with Bob Michael. And, um, but I got into, uh, more or less those are my friends, and we, uh, they were ham radio operators. I got into ham radio and became a ham radio operator at like, uh, 15 or so, and, um, which melded right with my work in school. And, um, just, I've been a ham radio operator since, uh, like 1975, '76. And yeah, and then eventually got into, uh, like I say Bob Michael and Tom Manillo were customers slash friends of Casey Folks, and Casey started putting on Las Vegas 400, and we all kind of joined forces to do communications for the checkpoints and all that. And it all went from there uphill, not downhill. Well, I was wondering which one to say, but it's been a fun ride since basically I was in high school with off-road and communications.

[00:11:15.430] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. So when you, when you say you had 4 jobs, I'm assuming one of them was newspaper delivery.

[00:11:23.190] - Keith Purmal

Well, actually, no, I wasn't counting that one. Wilson Electronics, basically, till I was, I don't know, about 20 years old, uh, and then I got a job with EG&G Special Projects working at Area 51. Oh, and then I did that till 1983 when my son was born and I wanted to be in town, um, and, uh, so I actually had an opportunity to, uh, get on with Nevada Power Company Again, another off-road ham radio friend ended up being my boss, and, uh, then I was at Nevada Power for 36 years after Area 51. And then I retired at Nevada Power after 36 years and went to work as a contractor escorting contractors to mountaintop sites for 3 years after I retired. And that was 3 years ago. Wow. Okay. And now I'm fully retired.

[00:12:31.870] - Big Rich Klein

Now you're fully retired. Okay. So you try not to go out and collect a paycheck anywhere. Correct. Okay. I tried that for a couple of years and then, and then now I got 2 jobs.

[00:12:48.270] - Keith Purmal

Well, we're busy enough between Cindy and I. We're always moving, always traveling. We're very busy, busier than it did. Not having a job makes up for— we're definitely haven't sit still, right?

[00:13:02.960] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that's, that's a good thing. You know, I mean, I see, see a lot of people that, that retire and they just, they become, you know, part of the couch, the furniture in the house. And they, you know, at that point, then things just wind down so fast and so quickly that, you know, they just, uh, they just don't seem to have that, that spark or energy. And to me, that's, uh, I don't, I don't want to get that way.

[00:13:34.080] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, like, like the doctors that I've visited have said, basically, keep moving. Yes, just keep moving.

[00:13:42.600] - Big Rich Klein

Yes. So, um, you went from the trade high school to college, um, or was it— it was a vocational college, right?

[00:13:56.850] - Keith Purmal

Uh, no, actually, I, like I said, I've touched on briefly, I had a— I ended up with a 4-year scholarship. Okay. Um, thanks to the help of Bob Michael and, um I actually only went to UNLV for 6 months, and I wasn't a college person. I felt like I had to work, so I quit the, the UNLV and turned back in the scholarship and went to work at Wilson full-time. And then not long after that, I went and went to Area 51 and then Nevada Power. I Basically did my college training through job. Okay. Job experience.

[00:14:44.670] - Big Rich Klein

So Area 51, that, that whole thing has always intrigued me. I'm sure that you can't really talk about a lot of things, but what kind of things did you do out there electronically?

[00:14:56.930] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, I can't talk. I won't talk about the specific projects and stuff. Right. But Basically, I worked communications, you know, the VHF radio systems, the microwave radio systems, and, uh, it was, it was a great experience. Um, and now that Area 51 is not— no longer a secret location, I, I actually, for 40 years, I haven't talked about even that I worked there. Wow. Okay, now that it's Basically knowing that it exists, I, I've talked about it a little bit that I did work there, but it was a great job, but it was, uh, traveling, you know, flying on Janet planes to get there, and it was awesome job.

[00:15:46.510] - Big Rich Klein

So, so your commute to work was then flying in every day?

[00:15:50.910] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, or if we had to work over, we stayed overnight. You know, or sometimes we would work for a week at a time, staying overnight and just come home on the weekends.

[00:16:00.710] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. So did you see any little green people? I know you can't say that. Yeah, just nod your head. It's all audio. Nobody's looking at you. Just nod your head one way or the other.

[00:16:18.810] - Keith Purmal

Yeah. Use your imagination.

[00:16:21.000] - Big Rich Klein

Yes. Well, with everything coming out in the I think, you know, with the release of the alien programs and all that kind of stuff, we can all kind of assume that, you know, what was going on out there nowadays. But I find it very intriguing that the whole keeping it secret and, you know, afraid of— almost like the government afraid to release anything. Um, and I, I can see that because, you know, you, you'd look at the old movies like War of the Worlds and stuff like that, you know, it's that fear-driven stuff that everybody— that they're trying to keep people from, from, uh, experiencing, I guess, is the way to put it.

[00:17:10.580] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, yeah, just leave it to the imagination and not, uh, stir the pot, right?

[00:17:20.440] - Big Rich Klein

So you were out there for, let's see, about, about 4 years.

[00:17:26.140] - Keith Purmal

Like I say, my son— I, I hired on at Nevada Power, uh, March of 1983, and my son was born in May of 1983. Okay. And, and, uh, it was a— Nevada Power was a job in town, and I didn't have to be gone overnight and for a week at a time sometimes, right?

[00:17:49.220] - Big Rich Klein

And what kind of stuff did you do at Nevada Power? You can talk about that, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:17:56.140] - Keith Purmal

I was in the communication shop and, uh, it, uh, you know, started out working on the, uh, SCADA systems that controlled the substations and the generators and kind of And then worked my way, eventually worked around different aspects that communication-wise, you know, fiber protection equipment at substations, and then became a foreman and had a great crew under me that basically took care of me and took care of stuff, and we worked well together. And ended up with a good retirement and a lot of good times.

[00:18:46.210] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. And let's, let's talk about the introduction and getting to know Casey Folks. Just a little reference. I got to know him in the early 2000s when I took over Vora from Ed Robinson. and I instantly called Casey and asked how to negotiate or navigate through the, you know, Bureau of Land Management and, uh, for permitting and all that kind of stuff. And he was very, very helpful, um, you know, being that he was the big promoter, I was the little guy, you know, a lot of times those, you know, you don't get cooperation like that, but he was very cooperative. And, you know, we had a pretty good relationship, even though I didn't know him very well, we were still on a first-name basis. What was he like, you know, personally?

[00:19:48.110] - Keith Purmal

Awesome. He was always in race mode or in promoter mode. You know, very hands-on. I wouldn't call him a micromanager. He brought on people that he trusted or empowered. And, you know, he was very instrumental in bringing, you know, making— getting people to do beyond their means or using people to the max. I met him like in the mid-'70s is when I kind of hooked up with him. And from there, like I say, we— I remember doing the Las Vegas 400 when I was still in high school, his kind of first big race he promoted, and spending the night on a mountaintop babysitting a repeater that we had taken up there for the race the next day and basically sleeping in a sleeping bag on the ground there. And then driving the truck off, uh, off the mountain and driving straight to the awards. And I threw away my old grummy t-shirt in the trash and put on my event shirt and went to the awards. Nice. But, um, he like, he, um, just awesome promoter.

[00:21:24.140] - Big Rich Klein

Friend, I can understand that. Um, it was a shock to have him pass like he did. Um, but I, I guess in, in looking back on instances like that, um, I hope myself personally that when it's time for me, it's, it's quick and not something long and drawn out. Yeah, exactly. Um, I hope it's not on a racecourse, but, uh, I'd prefer it like when I'm sleeping, you know, and just, you know, off to the Netherlands, um, and, and not know, you know, not, not have that you know, yeah, the thought of trauma. But, um, yeah, it was a, it was a big shock for all of the racing community, and, uh, especially, I would imagine, for those that, that knew him personally.

[00:22:28.240] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, you know, the weekend that happened, um, Donald picked it up and basically ran with it, and we finished the race.

[00:22:42.900] - Big Rich Klein

You know, and that's why, that's why Casey had people that he trusted in positions of, you know, and like you said, that, uh, could, could take a project and, and run with it, because you've got to have that, um, for any successful business and, and, or, or organization. And Casey had built that.

[00:23:03.410] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, he, like I said, he had great people working with him and doing, doing the miracles that they do. And that was probably the best part, uh, was how everybody worked together. Team makes the dream work. Yes, very true.

[00:23:26.650] - Big Rich Klein

So let's get into some of the races or locations that, that you had to, uh, set up communications or repeaters? And, and what was, what was probably the most remote location that you— the mountaintop that you were on?

[00:23:45.310] - Keith Purmal

Well, it's kind of recently we've had a lot of trouble. Just this last weekend, Vegas to Reno, uh, we go up on a place called Pilot Peak, and, um, it's just above the Mina Pit. And, uh, 3 years ago, basically it had rained and washed away the road. The road goes basically up a wash between 2 mountains before it kind of starts climbing up the side of the mountain. And, um, it basically had washed out totally. I mean, there was 3 and 4 foot, uh, drop-offs. And, um, Sydney was basically out of the truck on a handheld guiding me inch by inch, like at King of Hammers. Driver's side an inch, driver's side hard, driver's side, you know, 2 inches, back up 3 inches. And we, we shouldn't have got up there. We were a couple hours late. And I don't know, just, I can show you pictures, but pictures don't play on a podcast too good. No, no, no, they don't. But, you know, we shouldn't have got up there. We did get up there. And that's been the most difficult one to the point where it was washed out again last October when we were going up there for a legacy race.

[00:25:19.610] - Keith Purmal

and we basically abandoned it and went to a secondary site that didn't cover as well, but we made it work. Um, I'd say that probably the most, uh, remote stuff was working the Nevada rallies with the Chervys and Casey Folks. We basically spent a week traveling the state of Nevada and picking mountaintops daily. It was a different mountaintop every day and You know, you're first one up there before they start and you're last one off after the last one finishes. So it made for some long days and nights. And for a week of that, it was very grueling. But again, Casey and Franco put together a good team.

[00:26:07.700] - Big Rich Klein

Yep. To get it to make it work. And What was— what do you think was the most, um, where, where you had to— like a situation during a race where you had to kind of take over and, um, deal with something that was pretty extreme? Um, can you remember what, what that instant may have been, or at least, uh, which race it might have been? You don't have to get into specifics, but—

[00:26:40.930] - Keith Purmal

Well, I don't know what comes to mind is basically, um, we've had several deaths during races, and, um, it's hard to keep running the race, and sometimes you, you, you know, you got to limit what you say on the radio. and I've had basically a wife of somebody who was injured get on the radio and ask where her husband was, and I had to turn the microphone over to Cindy, and she handled it on the phone. But, um, just when there's stuff like that happens, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's rough.

[00:27:30.070] - Big Rich Klein

What, what race do you think it is that you liked that was the easiest to do? You know, we talked about the most difficult locations and, and the, the, you know, like the rally and, and up, up on Pilot Mountain. What about, what about the easiest ones to, uh, to deal with?

[00:27:48.950] - Keith Purmal

Or is there any easy ones? Yeah, they're, they're all, they're all the same, but they're all different, you know. I mean, you got to expect the unexpected. Um, there's always a, a, a unplanned event or something like that, unplanned something happens. But the easiest, I think, was probably the, the Laughlin Hair Scrambles was one that was kind of a, you know, motorcycle-only course basically on a hill. Also the, the most recent Laughlin races, um, We have gotten to the point where the races are down more closer to the hotel in the town and using the main pit. We, we take a room at the Riverside. Thanks to Matt Laughlin, we've got a special room that we reserve that is at the top floor and it's a standard room, but we are able to get out on the balcony and hook up antennas and basically run the race from the hotel room. Which, uh, you know, we call it Mount Riverside during the race.

[00:29:00.690] - Big Rich Klein

I, I did, um, the first race that Roger Norman put on down at Prim, and it was the, um, the HDRA when he took over HDRA after it had been gone for quite a while. And I showed up there, myself and Shelly and the kid that worked for me, Josh England. And we started like cleaning up around the short course and stuff so that, you know, his crew was putting together everything to get the race started and stuff. And he came up and he goes, hey, you guys don't need to be picking up trash around here and stuff, you know, you guys. And I said, no, you, you know, your guys are too busy doing other things. Let us do the the mundane stuff. And then later on he came up and he goes, hey, do you want to be on the radio? And during, you know, for during race. And I'm like, yeah, okay. So I worked with this guy, I think it was Bill Black or something. And we went up on top of the, they got us up into one of these rooms at the very top of the hotel and we could oversee the short course.

[00:30:15.390] - Big Rich Klein

And I can remember we have radio communications with like the, the water truck and the tractor and the recovery guys. And, you know, we're running the race ops from up there, at least communications. And the funniest thing happened. Well, it was funny to us, but it wasn't funny to the water truck driver. And he had— was pulling, you know, while the— while there was time when people weren't on the short course, he would be watering the track to keep the dust down. And he had to cross over the track in this one location. Well, he got stuck and he's going, he's going, help me, help me, somebody come get me. I'm stuck in the middle of the track, you know. And we're like, you know, okay, get— you know, we had to get the team, you know, some recovery guys over there to drag him off the track because he did not want to be stuck in the middle of that track when the race cars are coming. Yeah. And his— the way he was projecting himself on the radio, the panic. And we could see that the race cars were still far enough away, but he thought they were like right there.

[00:31:29.820] - Big Rich Klein

And so he was really panicked. We were trying to keep him calm, but he was just pretty much keyed up. Most of the time. And we laughed pretty hard about that. I mean, I enjoyed doing that race, running the communications, but it was pretty funny, just that situation. And then, you know, we started making jokes and stuff like that. And finally Roger comes on the radio and goes, hey, you guys are having way too much fun up there. Let's be a little more professional.

[00:32:04.930] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, we had one volunteer that no longer comes, but about every race they would call for a water truck no matter where they were at, in the middle of Nevada or down in Laughlin. You know, that was kind of an ongoing highlight to the race was when they would call for the water truck. Yeah.

[00:32:29.540] - Big Rich Klein

I know that it can be, it can be really boring or it can be overly exciting. The range of emotions that can happen during a race and running communications is, is pretty intense. And, and just kind of that whole spectrum. Did you feel that on every race? Pretty much.

[00:32:56.570] - Keith Purmal

Um, yeah, and that's kind of one thing a lot of people have talked about, is that when things get rough, I stay calm. You know, I, I, I don't know, I, I try to just try even, even calm and collected all the time and just handle the situation, but behind the scenes it's rough sometimes. Right.

[00:33:23.430] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that you got to have that, that kind of demeanor to, to, to run the race ops communications like that. Try to stay focused. Right. And did you find that, that most of the crew guys that you worked with and stuff doing communications have been able to be the same way?

[00:33:47.450] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, yeah, they, they come and go, you know. We— there's, there's— you gotta want to do it first of all. You don't— a lot of times, like this Las Vegas Torino, you know, the Mountaintop guys don't get to see any race. It's all a race in your mind. But, you know, we got all kinds of different radios going, listening to chase teams, listening to just, I put basically, I have one radio on the main frequency, another radio on like the organization or staging frequency, and another radio scanning all the race teams, kind of listening for things, and another radio for helicopters, you know. I mean, there's multiple, multiple radios going and, you know, collecting all the information you can. And now with Starlink, you know, basically trying to watch, track things on the internet, there's no time to watch livestream. You know, kind of after the race, go back and watch or look at comments everybody's put up about livestreaming and who they're watching and what they saw and all that, you know.

[00:35:09.390] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, things are definitely changing. I saw guys, um, teams out there, some people that, that I've known for years that all of a sudden I come across them. Um, because I, I stayed up and watched the race on Friday from, um, up above, um, between, uh, Looning and, um, Gabs, and parked off the side of the road after one of the road crossings. And, you know, a couple different teams or people would stop by to say hello. And yeah, it was interesting to see the different way that they were communicating within, within the teams. Some were using those inReach, or I think that's what they're called, the little, the little radios that, you know, single channel you communicate all over the world on.

[00:36:01.200] - Keith Purmal

Type thing. Yeah, the cellular handhelds.

[00:36:04.980] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. And then others were, you know, using, you know, more of the Iridium type phones, push-to-talks. Yeah.

[00:36:16.880] - Keith Purmal

Like what we were doing, you know, at Rebel. MSAT, you know, satellites through the satellite stuff. Yeah.

[00:36:26.890] - Big Rich Klein

And then now with Starlink, you know, everybody's— yeah, you know, you almost have cell everywhere.

[00:36:36.530] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, basically wherever you got satellite coverage, you got coverage, right?

[00:36:42.160] - Big Rich Klein

So I guess that, that makes it easier for the teams, but it— does it make it harder to, to keep track of the teams? Because now instead of everybody communicating on like the business class, you know, radio channels. Now we've got them on all sorts of different platforms.

[00:37:02.980] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, it, you know, kind of scatters the race, you know. Everybody's off on their own little device, and it's, it's, you know, it works for them, but it scatters the race as far as, uh all one group and keeping things together. You know, it's the way of the future. We stopped at Rugged before Vegas to Reno and visited with Greg and Lance and those people down there. And they're talking about integrating Starlinks to, you know, different devices. And we may end up being able to do communications like Scott's planning on doing down in Baja. Basically from your office or your home or your bedroom, you know, right? Um, it's a whole different ball game.

[00:37:58.770] - Big Rich Klein

It sure makes it convenient for, for, you know, because you got a restroom right there, you shower, you know, you got your kitchen. You know, when you're on the top of a mountain, you know, you got an ice chest or an ARB-type refrigerator and, you know, a porta-john.

[00:38:16.950] - Keith Purmal

But, but I do worry about the, you know, the Sportsman guys, the guys that can't afford Starlink or whatever, you know. Right. What's the plan for them?

[00:38:27.130] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that analog is still— is, is— will still be important to a major— a lot of— still a lot of teams.

[00:38:35.390] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, yeah. So you got to cover everything, you know. There's the, there's the new stuff, and you gotta basically keep doing the old stuff to keep everybody safe.

[00:38:49.200] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, we've noticed that just with like trail wheeling, um, or just, you know, out with your friends. It used to be everybody was on CB radios, and then everybody went to FRS, you know, or GMRS, you know, the family radios, right? And then everybody's going, you know, all of a sudden the, the, the four-wheel drive crowd, um, the Jeepers, that kind of stuff, all sudden started using then the business class radios, you know, and using, you know, the same stuff as what the racers were using. And then now it's Starlink, you know, we're— but there's still guys that are still using CBs. Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:31.740] - Keith Purmal

So it's just— and it makes it hard when you got all these different options and nobody has them all, right? Exactly.

[00:39:42.060] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that's why I— that the last time I bought a radio, I bought one that's a 4-band, and it's like now I'm confused on how to use the radio.

[00:39:53.460] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, yeah, they do everything, but it's a whole different ball game learning how to do it, make them work.

[00:40:00.310] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly. So what is the, what is the part of what you do, um, that's the most intriguing to you? Is it, is it getting out and finding, you know, the locations or actually running the communications or helping the teams? What is it that, that drives you to keep doing it?

[00:40:24.140] - Keith Purmal

Just the, the Satisfaction of, you know, being a part of it and making the race happen. I mean, we're kind of a minority as far as the radio guys, but just being involved in— like I always say, I was too cheap or didn't— couldn't afford to race, and this has been a way to be involved and be in the middle of it. It's been awesome. I just remember driving all over the state of Nevada with Casey Folks, you know, plotting out checkpoints and mountaintops, like for the rallies in early Vegas to Reno or other races. We would go out before the race and he would take checkpoint people and I would go along plot out what mountaintop would work for the races. Um, you know, there was a lot of times there was 6 or 8 of us in a rented Suburban or whatever traveling over the dirt roads in Nevada trying to figure out how to make a, make a race happen.

[00:41:43.970] - Big Rich Klein

I always, when I, when I ran Vora, I That was one of my favorite times, was the week or two that I would spend pre-running the race courses and mapping it out and figuring out all that kind of stuff, and then getting out there and setting up, putting in the wood stakes on it, you know, with the arrows and all the course markers and stuff. And then afterwards, all the cleanup that was involved with it. But it was so serene being out there before and after the race that, you know, it almost felt like I, you know, like I was like living in the frontier, you know?

[00:42:27.320] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, there's a lot to Nevada that people don't see. There's a lot to Arizona people don't see. You know, there's awesome views and awesome stuff to see. When you get off the highway.

[00:42:42.920] - Big Rich Klein

Yes, so many people drive up and down that pavement and have no idea, you know, that truly the, the paved roads in Nevada are in probably the most boring areas.

[00:42:57.760] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, there's houses out there. People are living in nowhere that we would drive by, you know, that they had electricity, but beyond that they were hundreds of miles from anything, right?

[00:43:21.540] - Big Rich Klein

And some of the ranches that are out there are incredible. Um, got to know Nevada a lot better having been, um, doing the Rebel Rally for the last 10 years, and it's just, uh, you know, Emily Miller takes us into some crazy places between Emily and the course designer Jimmy Lewis in laying out where the course goes. And it's always so different in areas that, you know, I never would have had a chance to see without getting out there and doing that event that I just I make sure that I mark, you know, I keep a Lowrance in my car so I can always track my, my progress so that I can always go back if I want to. Yeah. And find it, you know. Yeah. And so let's talk about the getting inducted into the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame. Was that a surprise? Did somebody you know, not tell you that they were putting in an application for you?

[00:44:33.050] - Keith Purmal

Yes. I know you don't want short answers, but I have a hard time with it.

[00:44:39.120] - Big Rich Klein

I understand. It's very, it's very emotional time, but it's, it's a good emotion.

[00:44:46.630] - Keith Purmal

But Donald called a Zoom meeting And, um, he was on it, uh, I think First Aid Dave, my son, and Cindy. Cindy and I were together. They called a meeting, a Zoom meeting, and so we sat down and with the computer and Donald started talking and They've talked and actually I thought I was being retired when they first started talking, tell you the truth. But then they came out and said that I've been inducted.

[00:45:40.600] - Big Rich Klein

That's, that's pretty awesome. That's pretty awesome way to find out, not just a single phone call from from Donald going, hey, by the way, you've been inducted.

[00:45:51.630] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, I guess, um, you know, people wrote letters. I got a copy of the letters from everybody, and my son was pushing for it, or involved, and, uh, it was Cindy had to do the talking after I was told.

[00:46:15.950] - Big Rich Klein

Not like I said, there's nothing wrong with being emotional. You know, that's, uh, there's a lot of us. I mean, it's amazing how many times during the ceremony that, you know, brings people to tears. And I don't know how I would react if it ever happened to me, but, you know, I probably would be right there. I know that I did get inducted last year or recognized as a living legend in the Rock Motorsports Hall of Fame. And I had made a speech, you know, written out a speech of what I was going to talk about and stuff. And I got up there and I completely abandoned the speech and just started making jokes. And had the crowd laughing and everything. And I walked off and I was like, and I was like, all right, this is good. You know, I don't have to be the guy that goes up there and, and gets too emotional. I got everybody else cracking up. And it— but it, but it was because there was a, um, a delay in getting the, the right, um, the right introduction music up and a video going and stuff. So I stood there on the stage, you know, for like, I don't know, 2 or 3 minutes while they were trying to work through some technical difficulties.

[00:47:43.790] - Big Rich Klein

So I was like, okay, well, you know, just stand here in front of everybody with the lights on me, or, you know, do I, you know, do I break out in song and dance? You know, so I didn't know what to do. So I just started making jokes.

[00:47:58.790] - Keith Purmal

That's why at the gala, I knew I couldn't get through it and thank everybody I wanted to thank. So I just before leaving the room and getting to the gala, I recorded my speech or my acceptance, appreciation, thank you, just trying to cover everybody. Right. And that's why I played the recording on my cell phone. Into the microphone because I couldn't get through it.

[00:48:27.550] - Big Rich Klein

You know what, though? But that was awesome. That was awesome. We just— everybody— I mean, it surprised everybody, but I think it gave people, you know, some hope for the future. So when— if and when they get up there, they can go, oh, okay, you know, I'm going to do the same thing so I can stay, stay calmer.

[00:48:48.760] - Keith Purmal

Yeah. You know, whether I had it written down or memorized, I still— emotions took over. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm honored and grateful.

[00:49:02.730] - Big Rich Klein

Well, you know, as part of the board of directors for the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame, it's— it's what we try to do is make sure that those that are going into the hall are what we call 1%ers. You know, they're better than 99% of the people doing things that are likewise, whether it's the racers or the promoters or volunteers or, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, level the people are at or category, that those that go into the Hall are the 1%ers. I have to say that from everything that I know about you, you are one of those 1%ers.

[00:49:51.820] - Keith Purmal

Thank you. It's hard to talk. I'm sorry. No, it's all okay.

[00:49:57.750] - Big Rich Klein

It's all okay.

[00:49:58.930] - Keith Purmal

I totally get it. But the volunteers are the ones doing the work. We are just basically mailmen, I say. You know, Cindy does a lot of the homework behind the scenes and contacts all the volunteers and makes sure they have contact. You know, if the radio fails, they got her phone number. You know, it's all the people involved that make us look good. Yeah, nobody—

[00:50:36.050] - Big Rich Klein

it's not, it's not a one-person show. And as a, as an event promoter myself, I understand that, you know, it's— people will congratulate or, you know, they did congratulate me on, on, you know, a great event. But all I did was, was plan it out, pre-plan it out. It was everybody that helped along the way that made it work and become a great event.

[00:51:06.220] - Keith Purmal

Like I say, teamwork makes the dream work. Yes, absolutely.

[00:51:11.420] - Big Rich Klein

So what is the future for Keith and Cindy? Are you guys looking to do some traveling or, you know, now that you're completely retired and are you still just going to get out there and get on the mountain with the radios?

[00:51:27.940] - Keith Purmal

Well, we do 16 races this year. Wow. And we're waiting for the schedules to come out for next year. We, uh, we basically have booked 4 cruises, um, and canceled them because the race schedules kind of change or add stuff or get in the way. So we're hoping to take a couple cruises next year. Uh, depending on when the schedules come out, if they stick to them. But, um, I don't know, we're actually— after we get done with this and I go to the dentist today, we're traveling to Cindy's house. Cindy's got a house in Yucca Valley, Joshua Tree, and I got a house here in Henderson, and we're traveling constantly between those and and races. And we like this race. We went to the beach at Oceano Pismo Beach for 3 days before the race, just to do— we do many vacations lately before or after the races. We spent time in Lake Tahoe last month. We got time planned to do some after the race, vacationing in Utah after the Legacy race coming up. We got a couple of days. Basically, we tack on extra days wherever we're going race-wise. And like I say, we're constantly going.

[00:53:08.710] - Keith Purmal

That's awesome.

[00:53:09.430] - Big Rich Klein

Glad to hear that. It was, it was good. And thank you for stopping by in Reno during Contingency and spending some time in the Ormhoff booth. It was awesome to have you there and get to know you, both you and Cindy, better. It's truly such a family with off-road, and it doesn't seem to matter which venue you come from in off-road. Or category, it's, uh, everybody's pretty much still that same way. It's that— I don't know what it is about off-road, it just creates a family atmosphere.

[00:53:51.460] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, I— that, that's one of the best parts. Yeah.

[00:53:56.920] - Big Rich Klein

Well, Keith, I want to say thank you so much for, um, becoming a friend and for agreeing to do this podcast And I want to say thank you for your service to the off-road industry and racing in general, for being that, that voice behind the airwaves and always being there for the racers and the promoters.

[00:54:27.980] - Keith Purmal

Well, thank you. And I— again, we couldn't do it without the volunteers. Cindy's been a volunteer coordinator in the past, and she's got a lot of contacts, and we work on trying to basically keep them happy, keep them, uh, keep them coming back. We couldn't do it without the volunteers. Oh, that's so true.

[00:54:53.050] - Big Rich Klein

That's very true. And in a race like Vegas to Reno, there's a lot of volunteers out there.

[00:54:59.070] - Keith Purmal

Yeah, yeah. And for a long time Yeah, I say we're up there before the race starts and, well, this time we weren't there until after we got down, done before it finished. But that was because we were in the middle, right? Okay.

[00:55:17.080] - Big Rich Klein

Well, thank you so much. Good luck at the doctor's visit today. And if you could send me over a photograph have Cindy pick one out or whatever and text it over to me. I'd appreciate it so I can use it for the artwork for the, for the podcast. And, uh, again, thank you so much for coming on.

[00:55:40.700] - Keith Purmal

You bet. Thank you. Stay tuned.

[00:55:43.120] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, there you go. Stay tuned. Awesome. All right, you have a good day. Thank you.

[00:55:49.000] - Keith Purmal

Thank you.

[00:55:51.030] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, Live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.